Well, I think it's time to post my situation. For a long time I've been reading about what others are doing and trying to adapt, but last night I read Mr. Wonderings post about every situation is different and that the only way to really get help is to post and seek advice.

So this will start out my saga. It will take a minute to read, but I think it will get those that are willing to help all caught up. I'll start at the beginning.

12 years ago, I (32) married my wife (31). We where both very young (I was 20 and she 19) but I loved her and wanted to spend my life with her. The first few years where pretty rough, but I thought we where getting it figured out. We have two sons, 10, and 8, and they added both difficulties and
joy to our marriage. We also have a foster child (2) that I'll touch on at the end.

Over the last few years I've been doing a poor job taking care of my wife and family. I've spent far to much time in my office (I'm a work from home employee) and it got so bad that I wasn't even eating all of my meals with my family. My wife started feeling like my slave. Another problem is that my wife is a wild and free person and I'm much more by the book. So throughout our entire marriage I have been fencing her in and she has been denying her self for me for a very long time. This is further complicated by her having problems verbalizing problems. Her parents divorced a long time ago and she regressed a bit and her father was very hard on her so she as established a defense mechanism where she just doesn't
talk about much. So while she was denying herself for me, she would drop hints, and occasionally would explain what was going on, but the rest of the time act fairly normal while I continued to crush her. This made her feel trapped, owned, stepped on, etc.

Due to these pretty extreme marital issues she suddenly snapped about 5 months ago and hasn't been the same since. She started acting really selfish about stuff, talked differently, dressed differently, and did a number of things that where very difficult for me to deal with. One thing she likes to do is go spend time with her friends after all of the children are sleeping, but they usually toss in a movie and she will be gone into the wee hours of the night.

She then decided she needed to go on vacation alone. I wasn't really on board with this, but she was flipping out so what was I to do? One of her friends offered to go along so I agreed thinking they would watch after each other. So she goes and while I'm texting her about things that I need
help with around the house (like locating stuff) she gets really frustrated and starts ignoring me. I then start looking at her facebook account to see if she is checking that and find a really racy email from another man who is asking her to go sleep with him. She is calling him baby and
signing everything xoxoxo. I was completely devastated and called her and it turns out that this guy was a previous boyfriend and she says that she wanted to marry him and not me, but couldn't turn me down because I was so needy.

I asked why she broke up with him and she said it was because he kissed her and it was so good that she knew that she wasn't the only one and that he had been practicing. I should note here that at this point in her life she was a strong believer in Christ, and this other guy was not. So she left him because he was going down the party road and she didn't want to go that way.

After more digging it turns out that they met right after DS10 was born and he tried to get her to leave me. When DS8 was born she met with him and they kissed. They met again in Dec and she went and made out with him.

Getting all of this information while my wife was away was too much for me to handle so I started seeing a counselor. That person gave me the HNHN book and I started seeing everything I have done wrong.

So when she returned (feb) I started really working on things, but she was very much an alien. A few weeks later while I was at church (she stopped going to church) she met with this guy again. When she came home I already knew and she wrote me this note that said that she needed to go see if it was him that did it for her and was surprised that she drew no special attention and that it was me she wanted. She said that her heart was free to love me and it never was before because she always longed for this guy.

At this point I don't believe they have slept together and have good reasons to think that, but I still did expose this to our close friends, my parents, and a person from the church. She exposed to her family and friends. I didn't expose this to the other guys wife for a number of reasons.
My wife told me that it would end their marriage and that the other guy was terrified which I used to keep him away. The other guys wife is pregnant. My wife felt like telling her would betray her trust since she came clean with the details. And because I was in a counseling session and the
counselor told me that I had to choose between hurting my wife more or exposing to the OMW. After thinking about it long and hard I decided to not expose to her because I knew it would keep him away from my wife for a while, I didn't want to tempt my wife to talk to him because she affected their marriage, and because he lives in other state and isn't really a factor much except when he is passing through on business. I'm 99% sure there has been no contact since.

Now we have been seriously struggling for the last few months. Sometimes she is really sweet to me tells me she loves me, or writes me a tender note, or shows affection and it feels like we are recovered, and other times she is acting very much like a wayward. She admits to not feeling like herself except for one day last week when she said she did feel normal and it felt like I got my wife back, but it only lasted a day. This last week wasn't bad, but then yesterday she started acting really cold so I started probing to figure out what the problem is (she doesn't reveal anything unless you extract it out of her) and she says that she wants to be completely free and that she doesn't know how that could work when she is married. I asked if things where better last week and she said that she doesn't feel anything for me, but she doesn't want to ruin me either.

Basically, she feels sorry for me and that prompts her to be kind. I'm not sure I buy this. I think that she did love me, and that we have good times together, but then when we regress, its back to hopelessness and being distant. I suppose it could just be fog, but it doesn't feel like fog because of the way she
articulates it seems very genuine.

Because she feels trapped she basically wants to have no boundaries. She wants me to support her and be her roommate while she does whatever she wants without any regard for me.

I asked if that included dating other men, she said no, and was insulted that I would ask because she had already given up the guy she wanted for me so why would there be others. I explained that she has been listening to Lady Gaga, dressing really attractive, going to the night club with her
friend, so that added up to her wanting to be around men, at least in my mind. She agreed that those signals could be viewed as that.

Today she is being really short with the kids and generally acting like she is going to loose it any minute. She seems to be in the middle of a midlife crisis and I fear that it's going to come to a head pretty soon. Lately it seems like her taker is ruling over her and I don't see her giver very much.

Here are some other factors:

1. She has always wanted to adopt a child, but I was never on board. This is a huge problem in our marriage. Now we have a 2 year old foster kid that she loves and wants to adopt, but we finally decided to come clean with the state about our marriage issues and now they are almost certainly going to take her away. This is going to devastate my wife and sons, but there isn't anything I can do. I can't adopt a little girl while my
wife is a wayward.

2. My top two emotional needs are not being met at all and it's starting to really hurt. About once a week I tend to gack out and tell her that not getting my needs is killing me. She says that she doesn't want to meet my needs but that it bothers her that she doesn't love the man she married. It's almost like she realizes what she is doing and how devastating it is, but doesn't care because her taker is far more concerned with what she wants.

3. I tend to be the loyal but needy type. I'm not very independent and this stuff really hurts. She acts like the marriage could end tomorrow and that would bother her, but it's nothing she couldn't deal with.

4. She doesn't like to talk about our relationship. She tolerates it in order to pacify me (communication is my primary need and I have a bad habit of forcing her to communicate with me, but it usually ends up being very one sided like I'm giving her a lecture) but doesn't really communicate back. Responses are usually only a syllable at a time (yup, sure, ok, yes, no.)

5. We have been going to marriage counseling together and separate for 3 months now. The counselor is very good and he regularly says that he has a good session with my wife. Usually when she comes back things are better for a few days.

6. Because she is a wayward everything she loved she now hates, and everything she hates she now loves. It's really hard to see my wife go from the children's church teacher, to listening to Lady Gaga on her way to the dance club.

7. She decided that she wanted her motorcycle license (which I think is great since I like to ride) she passed the safety course and has her license now, and wants to buy a motorcycle. That is fine with me, but I wonder if now is the time.

8. Money is interesting. I tend to budget and keep track of everything and she doesn't care about the budget and just wants to do whatever. Obviously that won't work for very long without lots of debt so I tend to put the brakes on when she wants to buy lots of stuff (it's nothing for her to drop $600 on clothes for the family in a month.) This makes her feel like I control all of the money which she views as another system of control.

9. She gave up college when DS10 was born because I had a good job and made plenty enough. Now I have a very good job and a side job and make plenty for her to stay home so we homeschool. She is bitter because she wants to go to school then work because she wants to accomplish things on her own, but I've resisted all of these years because our children are getting a far better education at home, and because we don't need the money. I think she wants school and work to give her some freedom from me. Anyway I told her she should check it out and her first classes start on Monday.

10. Since she is a stay at home mom she has a really good and really hard life. She is free to do whatever she wants with the kids for the most part. She can take them to the park on a nice day or get up late if we where out late the night before, but she also ends up being the primary caregiver which she didn't seem to mind until 5 months ago, and now she isn't so interested.

11. I feel like I'm married to my teenage daughter and she feels like she is married to her domineering father. Many times I treat her like her father treats her, and many times she treats me like she treats her dad. This is not good because she hates her Dad and isn't really on speaking terms with him.

12. Because of her lack of jobs in the last 10 years she doesn't really have anywhere to go and the children really need her so that is what is keeping her here. If it wasn't for the children she would be gone, and even then she still would need a job which isn't that easy to get these days. This is another reason why she feels trapped, but it is also buying us some time.

13. She never got married to me thinking it would be permanent since she was so young and her parents are divorced. I asked her last night if the commitment we made to each other had any bearing and she said the commitment was outdated.

14. My Dr put my on anti-depressants, but they freak me out. He said to take them at night, but then I wake up 4-5 hours later. He then told me to take melatonin with the drugs but that only gets me to 6 hours and very rarely 7 hours. I've not had 8 hours of sleep in a row in 5 months. I've also
lost 25 lbs, but I really needed to loose that weight anyway. So I'm not doing great physically and it's really starting to wear on me.

Now the questions:

1. Should I hide my grief and pain from her? She acts frustrated when I'm down because she doesn't want to hurt me and it stresses her out. I certainly am not the most pleasant person to be around when my heart is being ripped out and stepped on and tend to act wounded.

2. How long will she continue to be a wayward? I don't want to leave her or ask her to move out, but this can't continue forever.

3. How can I get some sleep?

4. How do I protect my sons that aren't in the know?

5. How much freedom do I give her? Seems like she can't get enough. It's like she doesn't want any level of accountability.

I think that is all for now. Thanks for reading my long post.

Akschu,

Welcome BACK to MB. In February you posted your story and again in March. Each time, including today, you state, you're ready to post your story. Anyway, here's the link to your FIRST post when you were given GREAT advice before.

Oh, and are you saying that you guys never married or did I just read that wrong?

Akschu's First Post

akschu, if you have been reading on here for months, you know what we will tell you, and it's the same thing you were told before. You have to expose this to OM's wife.

Your WW is foggy and is more than likely still in the A. You need to snoop to confirm that. However, I suspect you'll chop it off at the knees if you EXPOSE to OM's wife.

What are you waiting for?

Oh, btw - go back and read your posts. Why in the world would you take on the ownership for your wife's affair by painting yourself like Attila the Hun? YOU are not responsible for your WW's A, she is.

Im a newbie as well and can offer no advice. All I can tell you is what you already know. If you take off the details a vast majority of threads read almost exactly the same.

Im sorry you are here but its been empowering for me to take action to save my marriage. I hope you can find that too.

This, from your previous posting cycle. akschu, how in the world could you have a 'gentlemen's agreement' with a POSOM?? Be definition, he is NO gentleman! In essence he blackmailed you into keeping your mouth shut by insinuating that he would stay away from your WW as long as you didn't tattle on him to his BS. How's that working for you?



Pick up the phone. Make the call. Today.

We already posted to you some time back. Did you follow the guidance given back then?? here

From a recovery perspective not very well, I guess....
From a they are not seeing each other, very well. There has been no contact ever since that second time she saw him.

They both know that the next time there is contact then it will cost them both everything and I will absolutely not hold back at all. So I made a very calculating move where I felt like I had more power than he did, and from a no contact perspective, it's been working fine.

Do you think that exposing now even after a few months of no contact will help my wife and I solve our issues?

Btw, this really is the reason I left the old thread behind, the only real advice I was given was expose, and that they are still having an affair and that it was physical. Basically everyone was assuming things that I know not to be true, then giving me advice based on those assumptions. Anyway, I'm not going to reveal my methods on how I know, but I do know with 99% certainty that there has been no contact.

What I want to know now is how to deal with US since I'm very sure that the affair stopped and never got physical. Does the generic advice expose to OMW still apply? If so how? Especially when he doesn't have a reason to contact her any more, but if I expose, they will make contact, and if his marriage ends, I know for certain my wife will split.

ak - You MUST tell the OMW if for no other reason than this:

She is PREGNANT!!!

If he cheated on her with your wife, chances are he has cheated with others, and could be cheating now with someone else. Who knows where they've been. His wife needs to know so she can get tested for STDs ASAP. An STD could KILL her unborn child.

How does your 'Gentleman's Agreement' hold up when there is an innocent life in the balance?

If something happens to her child, and you had information that could have averted it... how's looking in the mirror gonna feel with that knowledge?

Man up and call the OMW - and go read all the things people posted to you in the past, their responses aren't going to change.

I should note that OM doesn't even live in state. They have very little access to each other. This is another reason why abandoned the other thread. Comments like "This guy has slept with your wife more than you have" are absolutely wrong. It didn't seem like anyone really bothered to understand the situation, they just saw that I haven't exposed to OMW and pretty much stopped there while incorrectly assuming the rest.

Well, you're not going to get very far, or get much credit if you don't expose to OMW. Thats just the way it goes.

Someone has robbed and abused her, and you, a bystander, have stood by, watched and done nothing - to save your own hide.

So you can only keep your wife in your marriage as long as you keep her dirty secret from the victim of her adultery? Are you serious? That is not recovery. Show me a wayward who demands secrecy of her crime and I will show you an UNRECOVERED wayward who is keeping that door open. WITH YOUR HELP. This is not recovery, not from a personal standpoint or a marital one.

What you don't understand is that as long as the OM's wife doesnt KNOW, the OM and your W are free to contact each other. Nor can the OM and his wife recover their marriage if the w doesn't know what your w and her H have done to her behind her back.

Hi ak,

After reading your story (and I haven't read the original posted by Meggy), here are some thoughts of mine. The 'needy' term can mean two things. The 'nice guys' who are needy in terms of being clingy and insecure, and the normal guys who Need an intimate, loving, and exclusive relationship with a woman within the institution of marriage. From what you say, I do believe you are the latter.

Following that, I'm just a guy, but it is pretty clear to me that your W has problems with intimacy. I.e., committing to an exclusive and intimate relationship. If that is true, and she is not being treated for that, then this will continue.

Let me tell you a brief story about me and my wife. During the summer of 1969 after we had been married for 6 mos. we went camping to the Madison Wi area because that is where we met and wanted to get back to our favorite pizza place. That night when we were camping she told me she wanted a divorce (and yes we had been drinking), didn't think I was the party guy she was looking for after all or even a good dancer (she was a dancer and party girl), and that our personalities were sooooo different. She even told me that I was like a bumpkin (I can't remember the term she used, but something like that) and that I was from 'hodunksville' (that I do remember). I was devastated totally, and I was extremely upset also, because after all god what would my family think if after only 6 months my wife dumped me. I recall clearly I packed our camping gear early the next morning ( I even acted like john wayne and told her to get her s$$ to helping us pack), drove back to Chicago and then I was ready to call her parents who lived fairly close in Urbana to tell them they could have her back. She did not want me to that night.

Extreme yes. And I konw that I am very very fortunate it worked. I still to this day feel thankful that I didn't go off my head and just walk away. I learned about four years later that she had developed manic-depression, either well before that time or shortly after. SHe had her first breakdown in 1973. I have never told this here before, but when she was at U. of I. the second year we dated she took an overdose of Sominex one night. I raced there and her parents did too, and that is honestly how I met her parents, and we all disregarded it. The end result is that we are sill married.

ak, you have to realize as I did that you cannot evaluate yourself or your marriage solely thru your partner's eyes.

Okay, the practical:

> Listen to Maritalbliss as she seems to know of you, and if there is an affair going on take action per MB and her urging.
You Finally need to expose!

> I think it would be a good idea so think about your wife's background to see if there is a valid reason to urge her to get a psychriatric evaluation.

>See Your dr. and explain this situation, and to get what you need to protect Your health during this time. I am not quick to advocate tq's or ad's, but in the short term if it will protect you then so be it.

> Start early tomorrow morning to do a few things each day that are fun for you - watch a ballgame full length, a bike ride (which I do), a walk, go to a movie (yes, alone), go to the library....etc etc. Get your mind off her for a few hours each day.

Well, have said enough and I just hope and pray that you do stay here for alot longer and LEARN....k

Regards,

Tom

That is a very good point.

Akschu- I realise you don't want to rock the boat hoping this OM will leave your wife alone. I get that, you are so worried that she will leave you for him, that you are willing to do anything to keep her. Even help the man who your wife may still choose over you.

I have never posted to you, so maybe my veiw is different. IT'S NOT!!!

Just look at how she is acting. Action always speak louder than words. If she was truly remorseful, she would act, and say things to you to show her regret. She was caught, and just hasn't figured out her exit plan.

I was right where you are Jan 2009. I cam here and read and tried everything, even the love dare. My STBX just used the time to plan her exit. She just about destoyed me. Had me served while I was recovering from back surgery. Been a really long year. Well into our divorce right now.

Don't believe what she says. Waywards lie. I agree that there is a great chance they were physical, but even if not, EA's are just as damaging to families.

If she truly chose you over him, and you were not worried about her going back to him, then you would tell the OMW. The fact that you won't tells me you are living in the fear of her leaving you. How long do you want to live like this? Set boundries and stand on them.

The "assumptions" are from the vast accumulated experiences dealing with this same situation. If it is midlife crisis, then it can take 3-5 years for her to come out of the fog. How much damage will be done before then? And she will not be the same.

Don't let fear rule your life. You are not in any type of control, if you are not doing the right thing, because you are afraid of what the OM will do.

OK advice specific to your situation:

This affair has gone on and off for almost the entirety of your marriage. The met when your first child was born 10 years ago, reconnected when child no 2 was born 8 years ago and then recently. It is a long term, on again, off again affair.

There may be no contact right now, but there is NOTHING right now to keep it from resurfacing in 5 more years when your wife feels like it. Based on the history of their relationship, the affair WILL resume.

You have done very little to recover.

Your wife did not have an affair because of your not meeting her needs. She did not have an affair because you ignored or neglected her or because she didn't go to college, or because she's a SAHM who homeschools.

She had an affair because she has piss poor boundaries.

Not exposing to the OMW allows her to leave that door open to resuming the affair in a few years, when you've let your guard down and are trusting her again. Your WW does not sound repentant, and you are enabling the resumption of this affair in the future.

A repentant FWW working on establishing healthy boundaries would INSIST the OMW know if only to keep herself from slipping again in the future. She would recognize the immeasurable harm she has done to this other woman and do anything to set it right. Lying by omission and hiding, leaving her exposed to STDs that may harm her child is NOT the action of a repentant, remorseful FWW.

There you go- specific advice tailored to your 'unique' situation.

Expose to the OMW already.

It has been my experience over the years that the waywards who do not ensure their victims know of their deed, stay fogged out and never recover personally.

Just imagine a bank robber. Does the bank robber demonstrate repentance and remorse necessary for recovery by saying "oh well, I won't rob banks anymore!!" And then never return the money or confess his crime to the bank? Of course not. Would anyone in their right mind ever call that recovery?

Keeping one's crime a secret is WAYWARD behavior, not the behavior of someone who is serious about personal and marital recovery. A WS who would LEAVE over being exposed is FOGGED OUT.

This is what Dr Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders says about exposure:

Why not expouse to the OMW? I simply don't understand why you are waiting on your WW to make up her mind....and you kids...this is just awful...do you realize she could drag this out for yrs. My father did this to my Mom...it went on for almost 3yrs....can't tell you what a nightmare it was living thru that at my home (6kids)....I wish my Mom had known to expouse to the OWH back then...the A would have ended that same day! and spared all of us the horrible yrs of misery it caused....don't wait....you keep coming back to this site for a reason....you know what to do....just DO IT!

And hook up something on your computer to monitor her and her phone also....she is contacting this man or other men....going out to clubs and dressing like that is all about getting male attention....wake up...she may have a new OM at this point along with the old one.

Snap out of it. Expousing the TRUTH is never the wrong choice...this isn't about punishing her...but about saving your marriage...don't you deserve the chance to save it for yourself and your kids??