Ok got it. Sometimes I think my emotions are so much in the way here it clouds my brain. Heck, I'm as fogged out over WH as he is over OW!

You are fogged out of WH and that is NORMAL.

Now with regards to your delivery, that is really going to be tough for you. Your WH will DEFINITELY be fogged out either way. It really is a hard choice. You have to make the one that is best for YOU and YOUR BABY.

Chances are good that WH will be at the hospital if he finds out you're in labor, and he probably will. That's ok. Those big mean labor nurses will not let ANYONE into the room that you don't want there.

(My mom was a labor nurse for many years, tee hee.)

Don't stress it if he comes to see the baby - just have your personal bodyguards keep him away from you.

Ok well....spoke a little soon about WH's apparent indecisiveness.

Got home from work (had to pick DD up from her dayhome - alarm #1 was when he was so anxious to drop her off just a couple hours before the end of the day), and he was not around. Isn't picking up his phone or answering texts.

I KNOW he's with OW. The pattern is just too consistent - anxiety about dropping DD at her dayhome, ignoring my phone calls for hours.....And when he gets home, I bet he acts all weird and won't answer when I ask where he's been.

So I was thinking of saying tonight to him (please tell me if I should keep my mouth shut) that even if he's undecided whether he wants to stay with ME, he has made a clear decision that he wants to be with HER. So he has to leave.

Is it a good idea to talk to him?

You could use the "I believe in a marriage with only two people, would you like some tea?" Make sure you are touching his arm and looking into his eyes. This will get your point across.

I know this will KILL you inside. Believe me, I DO. You can do this. You have been doing so well. Keep yourself in check. Don't do anything to ruin what you have done so far.

So close to the end, you don't need to initiate a major confrontation. If he brings one to you, keep your sweet face on and reverse babble. But unless there's something really in-your-face, use Scotty's line as needed.

What he's doing right now is just standard sneaking around, not something really blatant like taking the kids on a play date with OW. (Blech!) So smile, knowing that his day of uppance is coming.

For the sake of any lurkers, let me also say that my advice might be different in the following circumstance:

If the BS is getting close to Plan B BUT their Love Bank is still in pretty good shape, I would be likely to recommend small but pointed confrontations.

"I know you were with OW tonight." Then just sit back and watch. Be ready for all kinds of anger, denial, and accusations. Don't back down, but don't escalate, either. "It doesn't matter how I know. I know you were with her." "I know you were with her, and I believe in a M with only two people in it."

Etc.

It's very unpleasant to go through, though it can be a very effective tool to cause conflict in the A. The two paranoid puke partners have long conversations about being followed and watched all the time. Hardly fodder for romance. That part can be kinda fun.

NP's Love Bank is already dangerously low, and it wouldn't take much to run it dry. Thus she needs to be extra careful to stay more (completely if possible) in the carrot part of Plan A than the stick, for the next little bit till she can go dark.

I've heard that some of the short ones are pretty tough, too. But that could just be a vicious rumor! Here's my advice: (1) If you have a birth plan, include in it that your husband is not to be allowed in the department to see you during labor. This works best if you're delivering in a locked unit, such as the one where I worked, but if it's not, you can still ask the nurses to keep him out. (2) Without necessarily going into all the gory details, tell your labor nurse why you don't want him there. "He's having an affair, and I just can't have him around me right now." The nurses will be more vigilant if they don't think you just had some insignificant lovers' spat over toothpaste in the sink, or leaving the toilet set up, where you'll get over being mad partway through labor and change your mind. (3) Delegate someone who WILL be with you (and not in pain, or otherwise distracted) to tell the nurses on your behalf if you forget. Bear in mind that you may not come into the hospital feeling like having a chat with anybody about your husband--or anything else! (4) Keep news of your hospital trip a secret, and make sure that anybody you tell that you're on your way knows that they are not to notify anybody else. It was EXTREMELY frustrating to be told by a patient or their family that we must keep X, Y, or Z out of the room, and then find out that pretty much the whole world had been told she was was coming in to deliver. Much easier to monitor your visitors for you if there aren't so many of them.

And (5) when the time comes, push hard! Good luck.

tl

Well.....unfortunately before I read all these responses I went with the "small but pointed" confrontation. Of course, I got a denial and a reasonable-ish explanation of where he'd been. Don't really believe it....

Sat him down and calmy reiterated the fact that if he expects to be around at all in the near future (not in those words, of course!) I will not accept him still being in a relationship with OW, whether he's seeing her or not (this is his excuse, "I'm not seeing her right now!" when he's just texting and calling her). He asked what it would take for him to be around for the first month of his new baby's life and I said that it wasn't so much the first month, as what I expect for the rest of our lives. Got lots of fog babble about why it didn't make sense for him to not be in contact with OW if the intent is there to contact her again in the future (in a "year" - yeah right) and then when I asked him point blank if he was willing to end it with her RIGHT NOW he thought and thought and said he might be willing to. Ugh. Why is the guy so confused????

Anyway, WILL NOT mention it again. But I will keep watching and if by June 1 (or sooner, depending on his behaviour) he has not PROVED to me that he has started pernament NC with OW, he will be gone and I will be in Plan B.

And yes, thndrnltng - I will make sure he does not even know I am in labour!

Oooh, good answer about the rest of our lives thingy!

Loving confrontation is fine as far as the WS goes (they hate it so it has to be good, right? ), and as I said, my main concern is your $LB right now.

Sounds like you made it through very well, so that's fine and dandy.

"First month" of baby's life - how foggy can you get? I had to lol about that one. He hasn't noodled this all through - I guarantee it! Beautiful answer, great interaction.

He is so clingy, and will probably get even more so as you get closer to delivery. At some point we'll have to talk about the actual logistics of having him leave and giving him the letter. You may want to think about sending DD2 somewhere else earlier that day, and hand-delivering your letter as you walk out the door for a good 24 hours or so.

One of your family members could go over and make sure he had left before you go back.

Just a thought.

Thanks Neak! I'm learning, slowly but surely!

I'm just wondering - IF he agreed to end it with OW, what ways can I make sure this is true? I know a NC letter is the first step - but couldn't he just call her after and say, "Hey listen, my wife made me do that..."?

He is VERY clingy. Definitely not willing to give up his family at this point! The main thing I had to clarify last night was that I was not asking him to leave because I was hurt over the affair, but because the affair was continuing. I don't know if I'm getting through to him but the firmer I am, the more he seems to pull back on his wonderful plans for a life with OW....

OR, he could just be lying through his teeth. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt for now and keeping up with my Plan A.

At what point do I revisit the issue of the A? I don't want to bring it up every day, but I feel like it should be addressed again?

NP,

How long have you been in plan A? It seems as though you have had quite a few relationship discussions while in plan A, which is not advised.

It may be advisable for you to think long and hard about whether or not you can do Plan B as I don't see that you have a lot of self control. I don't mean to hit you with a 2X4, but if you can't not discuss relationship 'stuff with him, how are you going to stop yourself from seeing/speaking/communicating with him? Are you really up for these plans?

People that have done the plans can advise better I'm sure, but to do a partial plan B in worse than none at all as you will lose credibility with the WH.

If you can do a plan B, when do you expect to do so? Remember, it is up to you, not him, for the date for him to leave the house. I thnk Neak made an excellent point saying are you delaying plan B bc it makes sense, or bc you can't face it?

All the best,

ba

Only if the opportunity arises. You don't have to force the issue, since you're just about to lower the boom. That is going to send the message, loud and clear, that you're done living in the presence of an A.

If you haven't read my story already, I recommend that you do, just in case you're among the few who has a very short Plan B. That will begin to answer your questions about what to do if he agrees to end it, and what about a FR. Then ask specific questions that come to mind as you see both what I did well, and also the mistakes I made.

No, I don't think your WH is lying through his teeth about clinging to his family (while still being very attached to OW, too). That's an ideal position for him to be in as you prepare for PB.

Even when your WH is ready to end it with OW and come home, go into it expecting there to be a FR. When the A doesn't fizzle out on its own, like around the 2+ yr mark, a FR is almost guaranteed. So brace yourself and be ready.

HOWEVER if you deal mercilessly with the FR, you have a very good chance of killing the A off completely at that point.

BeginAgain,

I have been theoretically been in Plan A since about the beginning of April. BUT, I was not truly in Plan A until quite recently. I couldn't stop myself from AO's, DJ's, and most of all, talk after talk about the affair! My emotions were up and down and all over the place, and I was falling apart more every second.

I'd say my "real" Plan A started about last Tuesday. I'm avoiding relationship talks except when I feel it's necessary, and even when I KNOW he's lying to me, I don't push the issue. I have had only two relationship talks with him during this last week, and both were very short - I said my piece and then changed the subject to happier, more neutral topics.

Two weeks ago, I would NOT have been able to face a Plan B. I was a wreck. I was sobbing every second, in front of him and away from him. I think I have reached a point now where I feel I have been doing the Plan A I should have, and feel honestly okay going into Plan B. I'm limiting my communication during the day with him now when I'm not at home...and it gets easier every day. I'm giving it until June 1 for my Plan A to sink in, and at that time I will pack his bags for him and send him off, PLB in hand and go dark, dark, dark. And I CAN do it now.




Neak, I am reading your story now! I started it before but never finished it. It is a fascinating read and inspiring to the extreme! I have a small question - I thought the idea is never that the BS should leave the house? What if you had left that night and he refused to leave after?

How do you deal mercilessly with the FR? Perhaps I haven't gotten to that part in the thread yet...

It was in my mom's name, so he would have had no choice. And I have no problem with a BS leaving the house temporarily only. If that is done, steps need to be taken to make sure the BS doesn't lose possession. There are ways that can happen - having a strong-willed friend or family member stay there is a good one.

Yes, there are some FR ideas in there a little ways. I liked them all, even the ones I didn't end up with a chance to use.

OKAY. After reading your thread, Neak, I had a thought, but wanted to run it by the good folks on here first.

Last night when he asked what it would take for him to be around, and I answered him about the rest of our lives, etc....I never actually told him WHAT he'd have to do other than end it with her.

Would it be okay, tonight, to give him a list of what he would have to do? Or is that strictly a Plan B thing?

Not yet.

It's an I'm-ready-to-end-the-A-so-what-do-I-do sort of thing. Since that usually happens after PB, that's why you're associating it with that.

If he asks again, you can answer, "For starters, you need to be willing to have no contact with OW for the rest of your life. Till you're ready for that, there's not too much else to talk about." And then of course transition smoothly into another topic, like you have to do so often. "More tea, Honey?" Or whatever.

Whether PB has occurred or not, The List is given to a WS after they've agreed they're ready for NC, and that first step is taken care of. The NC letter paves the way for you to even be willing to talk about The List.

No R talk, just light and fluffy. Look for opportunities to meet his EN for admiration.

You can say THAT again, darlin! Never mind, I'll say it myself: "no choice".

tl

WH is apparently going away next week up north for work. I asked him how I could know that he was not just back in our city but spending his nights elsewhere, or if she would just be up there with him. He said I could call his friend to check. (But OW flew up there several times before to be with him so how could I know?) I asked him point blank if he would still do that to me, lie like that, and he said, "I've done it lots of times before."

That KILLED me.

So today when I got to work away from him I sent him this email:

WH,

You must know how badly this affair has hurt me. What hurts the most is not only that you are still involved in the affair, but you do not seem to care how I feel about it, or how it hurts me. There isn't any remorse when we discuss it or any indication that you have any regard for how I'm feeling over this.

I have been trying hard the last two months to keep our family together. I have been doing this because I love our family and I love you so much, even after everything that you've done. My main concern hasn't been the fact that you might not want to be with ME anymore, but that you are not giving it even the chance of discussion or thinking about it by continuing your affair with OW. When I was still snooping through your stuff before, I saw an email she wrote you when she said, "Your marriage never stood a chance, especially after you met me." I disagree. I think it's BECAUSE you met her.

I cannot and will not do this anymore. You say you are on the fence about being with her, but actions speak louder than words and your actions show your intent (booking a trip to Hawaii, lying about where you are, staying in close contact with her...). And you often have outbursts when you say what you really feel ("What's the point in stopping communication if the intent is there to contact her in the future?") So, even though I said June 1 before, I really think it's best instead if you find a place to stay for when you get back from up north next week. It's not fair to me to keep doing this.

I continue to pray that you will choose the right path and end your affair and give our family another chance. But until you do, I cannot have you in the house with me. I'll pack your things, at least what I can, while you are away next week so it's easy for you to just pick it up when you get back home.

Love,
NP

I know Plan B is supposed to be a surprise for the WS, and I still plan on giving him his letter but is it okay that I sent that? Thoughts?

And.....you guys were right. My $LB can't last until June 1.

IMHO you did good. You stood up for yourself and you're taking care of yourself by making him get out. I'm sure others will have more to say about it but I just wanted to offer my support. Good for you!