SmilingWoman - It's not the material posessions he values but our family. I never thought he would risk losing his family. Before I found out what was going on, I would have been telling you what an amazing husband and father he is. He just seems so "all in" about the family life and I really thought it made him happy. I guess the three of us (soon to be four) are not enough for him.

My mom does know. I had to tell her because she wanted to make me and WH medical power of attorney now that she is sick (breast cancer). I couldn't let her do that so I told her what was going on. She has been so supportive and it's really nice to be able to call her and talk to her about this. She's shocked, that's for sure. But she is also angry and hopes I find a way to "nail him to the wall" (her words, not mine). She and I are both going through a very rough time so it's good that we have each other. I'm also in therapy which helps a great deal.

I'm sorry you had to go through your ordeal alone. That must have been so hard. You have been such a help to me. I am so greatful to you!

Is this proof? WH told Dirtbag on the phone that he was going to play a practical joke on him. He was going to tell Dirtbag that I'm pregnant by scanning my baby's ultrasound picture and typing ButterFace's name over mine and showing it to Dirtbag and saying "I'm f*cked. This is why I had lunch with her two days ago." What do you think?

The keylogger is wonderful as far as finding out info. It only takes minutes to install and cannot be traced. Trust me if I can install it any one can!!!! Set up an e-mail account to have everything forwarded to. Remember to erase ALL history, every time you are on the computer.

Think of it this way. You are worried about setting up a keylogger on his computer because it is a work computer...hmmm doesn't seem to worry him to use it for NON work related "business" and planning on having sex with a potential client seems to be unethical.

It was the best money I ever spent (under $100). To this day I check it daily and each day that he is honest is a day closer to me healing. Sorry, but I looked at this as a war and I planned on winning.

I sent a money order for the keylogger software on Friday. I will get it installed as soon as I hear from them.

I really want to hear what everyone thinks of the lastest that WH told Dirtbag Friend on the phone that he was going to play a practical joke on him. He was going to tell Dirtbag that I'm pregnant by scanning my baby's ultrasound picture and typing ButterFace's name over mine and showing it to Dirtbag and saying "I'm f*cked. This is why I had lunch with her two days ago." After he had fun tricking Dirtbag into thinking that ButterFace is pregnant, he was going to let him know it's actually me. What do you think?

Even if he's trying to get a rise out of Dirtbag and/or gain acceptance into the cheater's club without actually having cheated (doubtful), I think this is indicative of complete insensitivity and lack of morals on his part.

I can't in a million years imagine my husband doing something like this and I don't have a whole lot of wonderful things to say about him these days.

It is proof enough for me. I can see that he would try to spin it....but if YOU are really convinced it is proof just stand firm and say "I know you have cheated on me with her." Whether he admits it or spins it as just joking will be a good indicator as to whether you want to repair the marriage and stay or kick him to the curb.

It's not quite a smoking gun. He can still spin this. "Oh, honey, I was joking when I told him we had sex!"

This latest development confirms what I already knew. However, Maritalbliss is right, he can spin it. He's very good at that. Because he is so careful and so good at spinning, I feel the need to get creative with my snooping in order to get proof. Here is an idea I had. I know you will all tell me what you think and help me figure out what to do.

I get a prepaid phone and call OW. I give her a fake name and tell her that I thinik we are seeing the same man and see if I can get her to talk about it. The idea being that OW does know he's married but might not like it if he was seeing another woman (other than his wife) behind her back. I've heard that makes them really mad to find out that they are not the only OW.

Please know that I'm not thinking of doing this out of craziness. In fact, it's just the opposite. I am being very calm and rational and trying to find a way to get what I need. WH is very good at lying so I need to get better at snooping. I have not made any decisions about this phone call and I'm simply looking for some feedback (the usual pros and cons). I will also gladly accept suggestions.

Maybe have a friend or family member make the call? Do you know the laws on recording phone calls in your state?

Hmm. As much as I like the idea of you forcing someone's hand, be it your H or ButterFace, I'd say no to this. You will be creating drama for them, and in a weird way I think it will draw them together as another point of having something (the drama) in common. You don't want them to have anything in common. Because you know her first call will be to him. And he'll know it was you because he knows he's not running with any other women. (I hope!)

And you also don't know the extent of their involvement. Maybe it was a ONS. Maybe it's more. Your call may appear to be fishing for info. I'd wait. Keep it in your back pocket as a possible future idea. I'd really like to see an eventual confrontation, but not with you pretending to be anything other than your H's wife.

Because WH's Dirtbag friends are so big on pranking each other, there is a very good chance he will think it was one of them having someone make the call rather than assuming it's me. Any time something weird happens, he assumes it's one of them playing a joke on him. Really, they play lots of stupid and sick jokes on one another.

I just don't think I'd go there right now. Easy enough to do it later, impossible to take it back if you screw any part of it up, KWIM?

You make a good point Maritalbliss. If I mess up, it could put me in a more difficult situation.

I'm having a really rough day. Hearing him joking about my baby's ultrasound pictures and wanting to use them in that way really hurt. I don't know if there is any hope for my marriage at this point. I don't like or respect him anymore and I think he might be too far gone to change. I hope tomorrow will be a better day.

I tend to agree Anne....he is pretty sick. Does he get on his computer much? Maybe the keylogger will yield some non spinnable info.

Again though I'd like to know what your goal is in obtaining absolutely proof? Is it to use in a court of law? Will it help you to have proof? If I were you I would go see an attorney, show him the evidence you have and ask him if you need more to get your best deal in the event of a divorce. If he thinks you need more he might have some ideas on how to get it....a good PI to recommend or something. I know you said funds are tight but I'd borrow money for this....and I think PIs are not always as expensive as we fear.

Back to the need for proof...is it for YOU? Do you doubt what he is really doing? Because if you believe he is a lying cheater....and more proof won't help you in a divorce.....and you think he won't change....then I am not sure you need anything more.

I have to admit absolute proof would be sweet though. It was for me.

If you ever want to do something like that, use a website called spoofcard (saw it on FOX news). It is less than $5.00 for about 25 minutes. You can call anyone you want, make it look like it is any number you want making the call, change your voice (or leave it the same)and record everything that is said. Granted many states have laws about recording phone calls and it may or may not be admissible in court, but if you are just wanting proof for yourself then it is the cheapest way to go.

When we were having issues with my H's ex not answering our phone calls when she had SS, I bought minutes and made it look like it was another number calling and then changed my voice asking for someone else, then called back using our real number. She would not answer when it was us calling. Bottom line was the attorney used it as proof she was not allowing us to talk to SS.

Legally we could not use the recorded part, but the time stamp part we could. It is just cheaper doing it this way than to buy a prepaid phone for making 1 or 2 calls.

I'm so sorry you are having a bad day. I know it is hard for anyone to go through an A, but you being pregnant just seems so much worse for him to be doing it.

SmilingWoman - He's mostly on his computer at work. When he's at home and needs a computer, he uses his work laptop which he brings home every night now. I sent a money order for the keylogger so there wouldn't be a paper trail. I just have to wait for the company to send me the activation code. I should have it up and running in the next few days, depending on when I get the code and when I get his computer alone for long enough.

I have several reasons for wanting undeniable proof. One is for a possible court case. You can file on grounds of adultery in my state so the more SOLID proof I have, the better my case. I'm putting together a folder of our financial information (there is debt which really stinks but it is what it is) and I am compiling a list of people that they can subpeona to testify about his affair (or affairs, whatever the case may be).

The second reason I need proof is for me. I see now that he has been gaslighting me for months. I let him do it so easily. I've loved and trusted this man for 20 years so if he offers up a reasonable explaination for his actions, then I'm afraid I might just be stupid enough to believe him. If I know he can't explain it away, I won't fall for his lies. I guess I'm trying to protect myself. Because I really don't want to believe all of this is true. It would be so much better if it weren't. But I know it is and I need to remember that. Proof will help me to do so.

The final reason I want proof is so that I can try to figure out how far this goes. Is it a new thing or has it been going on for years? Is she the first OW or one in a string of many? The more I find out on my own, the less I have to rely on him telling me the truth once I confront him. I'm not even sure he knows what the truth is anymore. He just seems to be having so much fun and it makes me sick that it's at the expense of everything I hold dear in my life.

If you'll remember, he is talking about getting together with Dirtbag and ButterFace sometime soon (which probably means in the next month or so). I would hate to screw things up now when I could be so close to getting what I've waited so long for. Today has been one of the worst days I've had in a while. Given my situation, bad days are to be expected and I'm surprised there haven't been more. Tomorrow will be better. Tomorrow my patience will return, my frustration will ease up and my sadness and disbelief will be replaced the strength and resolve I need to get me through this.

As always, thanks for listening. It really helps to have a place to go to speak openly about this. It's part of what gets me through the rough times.

Half Unit - Thanks for that info! That might come in handy someday soon, hopefully sooner rather than later!

Anne said

>>One is for a possible court case. >>

>>The second reason I need proof is for me.>>

<<<The final reason I want proof is so that I can try to figure out how far this goes. Is it a new thing or has it been going on for years? Is she the first OW or one in a string of many? The more I find out on my own, the less I have to rely on him telling me the truth once I confront him. I'm not even sure he knows what the truth is anymore. He just seems to be having so much fun and it makes me sick that it's at the expense of everything I hold dear in my life.>>


Your reasons above are well thought out and reasonable. You are being very very smart Anne. I really struggled with number 3 and it was only after I made the decision to leave him that I fully 'got' how far it went. A co-worker of my WXH and my own brother told me things that went back to the first year I was married to X. Some people here have said that they should not be telling me that stuff....but it helps me. And since I already had plenty of evidence I never confronted him with the additional stuff I had learned. For two reasons---one-- my brother and the co-worker did not want to have to deal with my XH...I told them both I would honor that request unless a custody battle would make it necessary to have their story told. And the other reason was I just didn't want to hear XH's explanation and spin and denials. He is a proven liar...so why confront him with more stuff.

Again I applaud your calm and cool way of dealing with this. I think of you every day.

T/J

THERE YOU ARE, SW! I had a thread here for you calling you out to TB's thread "New, Blue and in Need of a Clue".

I'll go bump it.

SmilingWoman - Thank you for your kind words and your support. You have no idea how much your posts mean to me. Yesterday was a very difficult day. Knowing that he was going to play a joke that ButterFace/OW is pregnant with his baby using my daughter's ultrasound pictures was one of the hardest things I've had to deal with. The fact that I didn't explode and confront him shows me that I have the strength and patience to handle this the right way.

I purchased a noice cancellation microphone which should help to reduce the background noise on the VAR. It's being shipped later this week. I just hope I ordered the correct adapter for it. The website was a little confusing.

Does anyone know if the free email carriers such as Yahoo! and Hotmail are okay to use for receiveing emails from keylogger software? I was concerned that the size of the files might cause a problem since those have somewhat limited attachment and storage capabilities. This will be on WH's work computer so there is going to be a lot of volume during the day and I don't want to miss anything. Would love to hear if anyone has had experience wiht this.

Today will be a better day.

I used the free Yahoo and didn't have any trouble. It was not XWH's work computer but at times there was A LOT of volume due to the hours he spent looking at porn.