How long are you going to stay in plan A? When are you going to plan B? If you whole plan B revolves around the hope that she will move out, you are in trouble. What is your backup plan when that does not happen?

schtoop, you should check out the radio show. Several men have called in about their wive's affairs and Dr Harley is hammering them about the fact that the conditions that led to the affair have to change in order to recover the marriage. For example, your wife's affair happpened partly because she goes out at night without you. In order to recover, that practice needs to STOP. Dr H suggested to the H that he start going with her when she goes out.

I know you probably won't like hearing that, but I think it is something you need to know.

How long in plan A? Not long if I can turn up proof of contact. Could be a couple days, could be that I need a PI like suggested above. If I had just one crumb of encouragement from my wife I could continue plan A with renewed vigor for months, but thus far that crumb has not been forthcoming.

If she doesn't move out? Meet with lawyer and explore legal separation.

1) You should have a date in mind. Even if there is not contact with OM#1, it's only a matter of time before she hooks up with OM#2. Her entire behavior needs to change. Give yourself a target date.

2) You should be exploring that now. She's an entitled wayward. She's not going to move out. If anything, she'll claim you're being abusive and try to have you thrown out.

Get with a lawyer today, tell him your plan, strategize with him, and do the work NOW to prepare to execute your plan, like hiring a PI, documenting all the nights your WW goes out, doing more things with the kids to further solidify your case for being AT LEAST the custodial parent and hoping for even more than 50/50. Do what you can NOW to put yourself in the best possible light to a judge IN CASE you have to do down the plan B/LS/D path. Right now you don't have a SET plan to execute. You are just floating around reacting to your WW. If you continue down this path, eventually you'll break and want a divorce, and the terms you receive will NOT be as favorable as if you had planned AHEAD.

Schtoop,
I'm sorry if you've already been over this but it seems like you don't have a VAR - haven't mentioned it lately anyway. Wouldn't that help?
How about a GPS tracker? Those aren't cheap, but I don't know what your financial situation is - of course I can tell you D is much more expensive, but that doesn't mean you have the cash on hand now.

Either way. ML says get a PI. Get a PI. I've been around here long enough to have noticed that when ML says to do something and you do it, good things happen. Ignore the advice and you're simply leaving your future to chance.

I think she'll leave. I really do, IF you have your [censored] together. Letter well written and available, suit case at the door, kids where you need them to be (not present). Go over everything here (and with your lawyer if you'll feel better) until you feel like when you execute the plan you've already done it before.

Your wife is literally out of control, of herself, and of her life. When you unload Plan B on her, in total control, with confidence and compassion (remember, it's not about mean-ness or being vindictive), I really believe she'll fall right in line. Remember, you're doing this to save what love you have left for her, so that you can build a new life together.

Go back to Scot's pages where she executed the plan B. Maybe other's can direct you to more posts with people in the same sitch.

Hang In.

opt

Couldn't agree more. Any woman who celebrates something with her buddies and lets her husband celebrate with the kids is missing something. Like a heart? Time to get serious, schtoop. Get PlanB set up, have an attorney on board, and toss her butt out. She's not in the frame of mind to be a wife.

OK, here the current situation.

Optimism busted me. I bought a VAR over a month ago, but have been too chicken-sh*t to use it (Sorry ML, I know you hate that). What was I scared of? Basically scared of getting caught. I know thats bull and I will install it now.

You think my wife is out of control? Couldn't agree more. ML talks about eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible (partying with friends) and I couldn't agree more. But, I've gone too long not enforcing that boundary that I can't suddenly take a stand. Plan B will give me the chance to set and enforce that boundary. In the meantime I have been documenting her time partying and away from the kids, giving her plenty of rope to hang herself.

Speaking of the kids, my oldest has a soccer tournament in a town and hour away on Saturday and it was just kind of assumed that I would take him (the younger son has a soccer game in town the same morning). Anyway, the older one complains to mom yesterday morning about her not being at his games (she does attend when its convenient), and she said she couldn't because she had to take the youngest to his game.

Later in MC, the counselor asked how she was feeling today and she said kind of sad, because of missing the soccer game and what my oldest told her. The MC then asked if she had discussed with me, and the answer to that was no. I told them both I was fine with her going on the road trip, where my wife had just assumed I would be "controlling" and want to go myself. I think the MC is starting to see that I'm not such a bad guy, she's just got this wayward idea in her head that justifies her A.

Anyway, I got the semen test strips in the mail yesterday and the results were very unsatisfying. There is small smudge of purple showing on the strips from one pair, but it didn't show up immediately like the instructions said and not bright at all like on the pictures on the website. I can't replicate the results to my satisfaction on other tries. It's more of the same, a strong indication, but not 100% proof. I will sit tight and see if I can't get a stronger positive. I will also continue to snoop and install the damn VAR.

ok, schtoop, this is a big part of the reason why your marriage is such a mess. You go along with very destructive behavior in order to avoid being called controlling. This is why your wife behaves like an alley cat; you have no boundaries whatsoever. It is alarming that you are seeing a counselor who would go along with this abortion.

Plan A does not stand for appeasment. A better solution would be to ask your wife to STOP going out alone because it is harmful to your marriage. It is not "controlling" to ask your wife to act like a wife and to engage in a program of recovery.

Why in the world would you be "fine" with your wife going on a road trip without you? That is INSANE. That is just an open invitation to an affair.

Why do you men allow women to run over you like this? Do you think it endears her to you? Let me assure you it does not. It is sickening. Women do not respect men they can gaslight and treat like doormats. Our love is very contingent upon the respect we feel.

Women want to see a man who has enough self respect to NOT allow us to run over him. We want to see someone who cares enough to FIGHT FOR US, not roll over at the first sign of trouble.

No, you misunderstand.

I am fine with her taking my oldest to an afternoon soccer tournament an hour away on Saturday. No overnight, no party buddies. That is the "road trip" I was referring to. It really is fine if she wants to take him instead of me. I may join her later with my 6 year old after his game is done.

schtoop, have you been painted as a "controlling" guy in this deal?

schtoop, that doesn't address my point, though. What about her nights out with her buddies ALONE away from you? I didn't misunderstand that you have no boundaries whatsoever when it comes to that.

Well, the die is cast.

Please don't lecture me about where I went wrong, it is what it is.

Confronted her about seeing the OM Saturday night and she admitted it (but it's not what I think, they only talked...GAG). Had a big blow up about her partying, sleeping, neglecting the kids, etc. I told her I can't go on living this way. Ended up blasting her with a "Happy f-ing Mother's day". If you're going to LB, go all out.

We both put on our best acting job on Sunday and let the kids celebrate Mother's day. Her parents even joined us as we grilled out and exchanged gifts. I made sure the kids had gift's, cards, and projects from school to give her, but nothing from me. I asked on the side if last night's blowup didn't affect her, and she said she was giving a couple of days to calm down after my "crazy rant".

Today we had our weekly MC session where I handed her and had her read the plan B letter:

OK, she read the letter during the MC session?

What was the response? What did you do after the meeting?

Thanks for responding, SoL.

The response was as anticipated. She refused to move out of the house. The idea of me moving out was never brought up.

Doing this in front of the MC was very helpful. His assessment was that we were very close to the tipping point, that we either come to an agreement on the conditions or we're at a point of irreconsileable differences and divorce or separation was the next step.

So we spent much of the session discussing exactly what the commitments were that I was looking for. His position was that he's seen couples go into divorce being not really clear on what they disagree about, which he hates to see. If we are going that way, he at least want's us to be clear on the exact issues that are the ones that we each can't live with or won't change.

The first commitment I asked for is NC ever again. Again, she justified it with "it was just once and we just talked." I responded with 1) there is no reason for me to believe you, and 2) It wouldn't matter anyway. Any contact is just as hurtful and puts us back to square one with any restoration we were trying to do. Pretty cut and dried there.

The second is a commitment to work on the marriage, enough of the "trying to find out if I want to try." She responded about how she's been coming to counseling, but I pointed out how she does none of what the counselor asks at home (sharing her feelings) and how her actions don't point to "trying". Again, the counselor was helpful in pointing out that we are at a crossroad right now, and that she has to choose staying together or parting, and that staying together was going to involve a lot of hard work that needs to be done. Kind of soft, "sh@t or get off the pot" message.

Then the biggie was on lifestyle changes, where I was pretty vague in the letter. I detailed her continued contact with the OM and the single lifestyle she's been living (partying with single friends to all hours of the morning) and how combined with all the supermom stuff she does means she never around for the kids.

Like all good waywards, she tries to muddy the water and says how she offered to quit the gym or church show, but I that I had told her not to. Of course, these activities are not the issue. It's when she's already been gone several nights a week, then chooses to go out again leaving her kids on the weekend nights, then having to sleep the weekend days away because she's too tired. I also brought up the conditions that led up to the affair, the continued contact with the OM, and how this lifestyle does nothing to give me assurances that it won't continue or happen again.

So then she comes in with the weak, "I'm not going to give up my friends, that's the only thing that makes me feel free or alive." I responded that I'm not asking her to, that there are a million other activities she can do with her friends that don't involve being at the bars or being out until 2:00 in the morning.

Now we got to the heart of the matter. The MC asked if going out to the bars late at night with her "friends" was something I could not live with, to which I replied in the affirmative, especially in the context of further contact with the OM. So then he asked her if it was something she refused to give up. She never answered that directly, instead muddied the water with more talk of not giving up her friends or giving up other activities. So he again asked if this was the stumbling block that neither of us could work around.

She asked if she had to give an answer now.

There it was right on the table, in the light for all of us to see. She would rather tear apart our family than give up her selfish, single, midlife crisis lifestyle.

We ended with me giving in once again. The MC asked if we should schedule a session for next week. I told my wife the ball was in her court. Again she asked if she had to give an answer now. The MC stepped in and told us to take the week to see if we could come to an agreement we both could live with on the lifestyle changes, or more clearly define our differences. We agreed and scheduled the appointment.

Unless a minor miracle happens, I'm going to assume it's on to plan D. She's going to try to play the martyr about giving up her good activities, and try to compromise me into agreeing to some continuation of the partying. I cannot be sucked in to that kind of compromise, or it's right back to square one and doormat city for me.

I'm at peace with plan D. She never had any intention of making it work anyway.

If you get a bulldog attorney and go for primary custody using all the journaling you have about her going out every night, I think that might be the tipping point of her coming back. The prospect of losing her children may be enought to snap her out of the fog. Don't go for this "amicable divorce" crap. Go for what YOU want in the D, and then go dark. I'd also remind her that if she gets a divorce, she'll either not have custody of her kids, or not be able to go out anyway. You aren't going to be there as a built in babysitter anymore.

Thanks, jmwc95. That is my plan.

I have my lawyer picked out and have had one phone conversation with him last week. I will call again today to make sure I am officially his client. I don't want my wife getting this one.

One last thing from our MC session. He, of course, counseled about the danger of ultimatum's and how they are going to be viewed as me once again trying to "control" her.

I responded that I was very well aware of what I was doing. I didn't consider these as ultimatum's for her, but boundaries for myself and what I was willing to live with. I stated that if I'm stuck having to live with or tolerate these destructive behaviors with no prospect for change, then I have no one to blame but myself. This was a chance for me to clearly define the circumstances I can live with, for myself.

Controlling her was never the problem. It was love busters and not meeting her needs. You don't phrase it as controlling. You state your personal boundaries and let her choose whether or not she will respect those boundaries.

And you got what you paid for. You used the Plan B letter in the wrong way (as in not the way Dr. Harley recommends). You could have spent the money on a coaching session with MB and got way more for your money.

Did you read Surviving an Affair or ANY of the articles on this site? I don't know what plan you are following, I can't recognize it.

Meg's right, Schtoop, your MC is going to lead you right over the cliff and it's a long drop. It's not that he doesn't care, he just knows no other way.


Your 'impass' is exactly where I was on Jan 20. Reading your post above was taking me back there to a palpable degree.

One more straw after that was the last straw for me.

In retrospect, however, I do see how Plan B could have been effective. She'll string you along forever if you let her, that's just what waywards do. Period.


Unless you move out (or pack her stuff and move her out), the above quote is an empty threat, and serves to bolster WW's resolve that she can do just about whatever she wants.

Plan B is NOT more expensive than divorce. Trust me on that. Since it sounds like your heading for D anyway (as I said, you're situation is eerily similar to mine), you have NOTHING to lose by going dark.

I feel for you Schtoop.

Opt