Ok, so I will try to keep this short, but doubt it will happen.

I have been reviewing this site for a few days now and finally got up the nerve to post so here it goes.

2 years ago I caught my wife cheating on me with one of her on high school boyfriends, I whooped the crap out of him and basicly threw my wife out on her a$s. After about 2 months I started to miss her so I asked her back, but told her she had better have it all out of her system and to never see the little pr1c again. Plus I threatened his life if he didn't leave her alone. He moved to the other side of the country and haven't heard hide nor hair from him, so I believe there is no contact between them anymore. Well in our trying to repair our marriage we sought the advice of friends ond our church for guidence. Here is where that went wrong, one of her girlfriends use to work for me and we had become friends also. While at work I would confide in her a lot about my wife and ways to fix this. See those two have been childhood friends since they were like 3 yrs old so I though who better to talk with than her best friend. Well after a while of talking we started getting close, going out to lunch together, she would come over to the house to talk and so on.... Well I started to feel for this girl and I knew it was wrong because she was her best friend, but one day I made a pass at her and told her how I felt. Well by the time I had appologized to her and told her it was wrong on of the other people that use to work for me called my wife and told her about it, but left out the appologizing part. So that led to us fighting again and now she is threating me with divorce and dragging my name through the mud.

Now this is where I am having a hard time. Yes I had an emotional affair with this girl and had feelings for her, but I never took it to the next level and caught myself before I did. She is throwing stones in her glass house here. Hell she went and sought that joker out and formed a relationship with him on both levels. She said it was because my job had me consumed all day and some nights, whatever.

My problem is I have a repitable buisness in town and don't need her starting up any crap trying to hurt me. By the way I've had no contact with the other girl since this all came out, I found her another job in the next town and fired her, also fired the a$s that call this in, anyway.

My other problem is my wife still talks with her girlfriend and flaunts it that she still talks to her and I can't, and I am having a hard time with that because I am jelous that she can and I can't, I miss her.

SO do I stay or do I go? and help would be great thanks.

Welcome to MB.

You've only been married 3 years and she's doing this to you.. I don't know. No kids...divorce might be your best option.

Were you about 43 and she 26 when you met? How did you meet? What could you possible have in common with a 26 year old woman? What are her "daddy issues" that prompted her to marry a 43 year old man? Was she married before? Were you married or seperated from your children's mother when you met?

The background is really important to the advice you get here.

Mr. W

Welcome to Marriage Builders. Couple of thoughts right off the batt.



You seem to have some anger management issues. Now, I know dealing with adultery can bring out the worst in you, however this behavior is raising some red flags for me. Is acting out physically normal for you?


She is not dragging your name through the mud - you did that when you started up an Emotional Affair with her best friend.


Your affair is just as painful as hers is. The way you describe it, sounds like you made a pass at her and she turned you down - so you apologized. What did you intend with that pass? Of course you intended it to get physical.

Just because it didn't get physical does not make it ok.


She didn't start this 'crap' - you did when you started your affair.


Why'd you fire her, because she rejected you? Can we say Sexual Harassment suit?

And the poor person who lost their job for doing the right thing and letting your wife know what you were doing behind her back - with her best friend no less.

Bottom line: you are both cheaters. Her affair in no way makes your affair justified, right, ok or 'less bad'. Only you can decide if you stay or go - but the only way this marriage is going to work is if you make some big changes. MB can help you make those changes and build a wonderful marriage. Many marriages here have recovered from affairs and are now happy and healthy. You can do it but it's going to take a lot of work. You up to it?

No we had know each other for some time. Her father use to work with me at my old job. She would baby sit for me when I wanted to go out and we just got along, she was mature for her age because her mom and dad were both alcoholics and she needed to get away, she was the mom for her sisters. She is the oldest of 4. She has never been married and as for me my wife had passed away about a year after our son was born. She died of breast cancer, they didn't find it till it was to late and no mater how radical they went after it, it just kept spreading, so I was left with the kids and that how I ended up with my now wife entering my life.

Currently working through my husband's emotional affair, I can tell that I don't know if it's as painful as a physical affair, but I do know it is HORRIBLY painful.

What you did to her was a betrayal, no two ways around it.
I hear you saying she has no right to complain about your betrayal because she did it to you, two years ago.
I also (correct me if I'm misunderstanding this part) hear you saying you're mad at the guy who had the nerve to rat you out to the woman you'd betrayed.
And, I think I'm hearing you say you're far more worried about saving face than you are about saving your marriage.

I'm certainly not going to offer advice, but I'm curious if you can hear what you're actually saying.

Yeah I am up for anything at this point cause my kids lover her cause she has always been there.

I may have some slight anger issues but nothing that I would consider over the top, I mean this guy wrecked our life to get his p3ck3r wet. He didn't care about her he just wanted the prize, anyway.

I let her go because we needed to have seperation, it was a mutual agreement for her to go to the other job. Nothing to do with her sexually. She never really responded to me hitting on her I just came to the realisation that I shouldn't have done that is why I appologized. As far as me firing old boy, he was a slacker anyway and he had a crush on her and she always turned him down so no I don't feel bad, beside I have to pay his damn unemployment anyway cause I fired him and he is to lazy to get another job, anyway I will stop ranting.

Yes I hear myself I guess I am just doing the self pitty crap I keep reading about, but it's hard to do when I can't think straight

Let's just call a spade a spade here. You didn't catch yourself. The reason you didn't take it to the next level was because she turned you down:

Was the OW married?

No she was not married and had no boyfriend, and like I said she never turned me down or accepted, I caught myself before it went any farther

It isn't a question of "do I stay or do I go?". It's a question of "do I want to save this marriage or not?".

You guys have spent half of your marriage cheating on each other. You have no children together, and the one child living at home was introduced to your new wife as a teenager.

A few questions:

1. What's your history of cheating on your previous spouse?
2. Given the seventeen-year age disparity between you and your current wife, was your current marriage the result of an affair? (EDIT: Asked and answered, thanks.)
3. Do you have a pre-nup?
4. Is this your wife's first marriage? (EDIT: asked and answered, I type too slowly!)
5. Does she have any children living with you or elsewhere? (EDIT: asked & answered)
6. Did the girlfriend reciprocate your feelings when you "made a pass" at her? Or did she spurn you?
7. Have you read "Surviving An Affair" yet? (http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html ).
8. Do you consume pornography in any form? This is a very important question, more so for those above 40 than those in their twenties (I can go into "why" later...).

I have much more to say, but it depends upon your answers.

Your "apology" to the girlfriend of your wife doesn't matter. That's not the kind of thing you can apologize out of. The only apology that matters is the one to your wife, and you can only make that apology through your actions over a long period of time.

If you haven't read "Surviving An Affair" yet, that is your VERY FIRST STOP. Spend the little bit of cash to save your marriage. This will be your marital bible if you try to recover. You need to understand why affairs happen, why they end, and most importantly what you need to do to have a life-long, loving marriage with your spouse.

As far as "do I stay or do I go?", I offer one piece of advice: you can un-do the decision to save your marriage at any time. It's an easily-reversible decision. A divorce, on the other hand, tends to be final (and if not final, extremely traumatic for everyone involved).

As stated above, quite often Dr. H recommends D when there are no children involved (he's talking about kids together). However, if you've been M 3 years and she had an A 2 years ago, then that means infidelity entered your marriage the first year. That is a very foreboding sign.

My perception of your posts is that you miss her, but you are more concerned about your reputation than anything else. Most people who come to post on MB want to fight for their M. They write how much they love their spouse and will do anything to R their M. Your posts lacked this. Do you agree or am I just reading this wrong??

1. What's your history of cheating on your previous spouse?
No not at all, I loved my wife dearly I still miss her, she had passed away from breast cancer.
2. Given the seventeen-year age disparity between you and your current wife, was your current marriage the result of an affair?
No see above, kinda upsetting me here cause of how I lost my wife I put that in an earlier post.3. Do you have a pre-nup?
No didn't think I needed one4. Is this your wife's first marriage?
Yes
5. Does she have any children living with you or elsewhere?
No she has no kids and doesn't seem to want any at this point, she loves mine as hers cause she has been around them since they were little
6. Did the girlfriend reciprocate your feelings when you "made a pass" at her? Or did she spurn you?
She never really said, she just said that she felt we were close and liked what we had, but never turned me down or accepted7. Have you read "Surviving An Affair" yet? (http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html ).
No but I do have it on order because like I said I have been reading the site for a while
8. Do you consume pornography in any form? This is a very important question, more so for those above 40 than those in their twenties (I can go into "why" later...).
Nothing out the ordinary, just the typical playboy, easyrider type stuff.

Yes I want to try, like I said my kids adore her and love her as if she was their mom and they want us to fix this. I do love her and yes I miss her, I am just now reliving her stuff all over again and I thought I had went past this. Obviously not. She is a wonderful woman to me and my kids I just feel lost know cause so much emotion is running through me

Actually you're not the one paying it, it comes from a fund that you contribute to for ALL your employees. As a business owner you should know that.

If you fired this guy, you were wrong. If he was so bad, why not fire him before all this came down.

We're here to help save marriages, but it seems your main concern is your standing in the community.

You admitted yourself that you were jealous because she was talking to your OW and you're not (or did I get that backwards).

So, do you want to save your marriage? (Nevermind, I saw your recent post)

Hang the business.

Like I said I have been reading on this site for a while before I decided to post so I figured out what all that stuff was at the bottom after reading the accronym page. anyway.

I know how the unemployment works I was just shotting off my mouth cause I am upset.

Yes you got it right I miss talking with her.

Yes I want to try and save this marriage just worried I have done to much damage to repiar it with my bad attitude and temper towards her.

Thanks for answering the questions honestly. The reason you're getting asked about a previous affair is because of the age dynamic here. It's unusual, and the usual cause for such an unusual age difference is "affairage": having an affair, then marrying the affair partner.

Given the amount of time between your first wife's death and your subsequent remarriage -- 13 years later, was it? -- we can safely rule out the "affairage" dynamic I appreciate you addressing it even though it upset you. It's simply important to know... we've had a lot of men come on here to save their affairage, when they really should be addressing their relationship with their ex-wives if they want a loving, life-long marriage.

So "I like what we have" is a code-phrase. It means "I don't want to escalate to the next level yet". It wasn't a turn-down. She's definitely still an active threat to your marriage if you ever see or speak to her again.

Here's how you make amends with your wife:
1. Never see or speak to the other woman ever again.
2. Establish extraordinary precautions to ensure that you cannot contact the other woman or create a new affair ever again. For my former wayward wife, this included things like "do not create or nurture friendships with members of the opposite sex" and "keep my spouse fully appraised of where I am and what I am doing every day".
3. Learn to control your Love Busters, most particularly selfish demands, disrespectful judgments, angry outbursts, independent behavior, and dishonesty. "Annoying Habits" is another Love Buster, but typically remedying these takes quite a bit of time and attention, and isn't nearly as easy to control as learning to reign in the other ones.
4. Learn to meet her Emotional Needs. "Surviving An Affair" will discuss these.

It sounds like you guys never really recovered your marriage from her affair. You just went into a holding pattern of the same-old, same-old, and she probably still resents your intrusion into her affair and is looking for an excuse to end it with you. You can recover from this, but you have a lot of hard work ahead of you to do so.

Once you get your copy of "Surviving An Affair" and have read it cover-to-cover a time or two, I'll be happy to chime in further.

Addendum, two things I didn't write before I clicked "submit":

1. Anger. Realize that your anger is probably the end result of engaging in what Dr. Harley calls the "Dueling Dictators" strategy to resolving conflict. It typically goes like this.

You make a selfish demand. It seems like a perfectly reasonable one to the person asking. For instance, "honey, would you grab me a beer?"

It's a "selfish" demand because you're asking your spouse to suffer in your place.

The other demurs. "I'm busy. Get it yourself."

The first follows-up the Selfish Demand with a Disrespectful Judgment. "The fridge is three feet away from you, for pete's sake. I'm working on our car and you're just talking on the phone. Tell your friend to give you five seconds so you can get me a beer."

That's a Disrespectful Judgment because it impies that one spouse's time is more important than the other's, or that one is engaged in a more meaningful activity. Now, it might work. Your spouse might feel bad and acquiesce to your request... that's why we do this, after all. It's instinctual.

But let's assume the other demurs again, possibly by just ignoring the request, chatting on the phone with her friend, and maybe mentioning the incident with a giggle to her friend.

Now you're pissed off. You push out from under her car that you were working on because you thought you'd be nice and work on it for her rather than her taking it to the shop or doing it herself. You stomp to the fridge, swing open the door, angrily grab the beer, pop the top and grumble "Thanks for your help" sarcastically at your spouse as you walk past to go back to doing her the favor she should be grateful for in the first place.

The anger punishes her. She feels bad that you're clearly mad. She feels guilty about not doing what you asked. Maybe next time she'll do it instead of relaxing on the phone while you're working your butt off on her behalf.

That's the typical dynamic of a relationship. Demand, then Disrespect, then Anger. All it would take to avoid the entire incident would be to stop the Demand. Phrase it differently to invite discussion.

"Honey, how would you feel about grabbing a beer for me?"

If she says "sure", there you go. If she demurs, because you asked about her FEELINGS, she's more likely to reply "I'm on the phone with Rhonda right now."

Well, then you have a choice: do you disrespect her conversation with Rhonda, do you go get it yourself, or do you wait? The last two choices are perfectly acceptable. This is negotiation right now. She's distracted and on the phone, so probably getting it yourself is the best option, but you don't want to do so angrily. If you start to feel anger, the discussion is over. Excuse yourself and do something else until you can approach it without anger.

A follow-up might be "Would you like to grab one for me in a few minutes when you're done?" That opens the door for negotiation, but you must always be willing to take "no" for an answer.

Anyway, if you address how you ask for things from one another, and stop being demanding and disrespecting each other, usually that solves the anger issue. If it doesn't, an anger management class is often in order.


2. Pornography.

You think it's normal to read Playboy and Easy Rider. The problem is, particularly as we age, we begin experiencing "contrast effect". Our wives look much saggier, fatter, and droopier than the models in those magazines. If you're looking at them regularly, your wife looks MUCH worse by contrast, particularly if she's aging or has had kids.

"Contrast Effect" is DISASTROUS for men, who very often value sexual attractiveness in their top five most important Emotional needs. Dr. Harley's advice is very direct: if you view pornography, stop doing it. If you masturbate, don't do that either. Every sexual experience you have -- EVERY SINGLE ONE -- should be shared with your wife. She should know any time you have any sexual experience, and she should be a part of it as long as she is willing to be. And you must ensure that if you "take care of your own needs" that she's enthusiastic about that, too.

Because that's the most important rule once the two of you decide to recover your marriage: the Policy of Joint Agreement. Never do ANYTHING without the enthusiastic agreement of your spouse.

I've gone on too long. You'll get all this stuff in SAA. But I wanted to give you a head-start. Typically it takes around 3 to 5 weeks after D-Day for a couple to decide whether they want to recover the marriage or not. Then you're looking at 3-6 months of withdrawal from your partner.

And if your wife decides to have a revenge affair, well, that muddies the waters considerably... and they are muddy enough already.

Great post Door!!

Hammer, meet nail.

Good call, Mr. W.