My husband and I have been married for 24 years and really needed to have found this site many years ago.We have managed to hold our marriage together..barely, for many years.It is a very long story that perhaps I will get into at a later date but my main priority has always been family.After both of us filling out the ENQ we both sat down this afternoon( we are currently separated) to review and discuss them.The discussion went well and really I was not surprised by anything we discussed until we had to rank our EN in order of importance.I was completely floored in reading his:I guess I do need to give a brief background in order to explain why I was so upset:
1..the most impt thing to me is family.One of our issues has been his lack of family/marital commitment(he is retired military 27 years)and my resentment of the family always being an after thought instead of the priority
2. His lack commitment involves infidelity: physical and internet based
3. His lack of honesty and trustworthiness and my inability to get past it.

back to EN: our rankings were completely different
his:
1 Affection
2 SF
3 Admiration
4 RC
5 Conversation

Mine:
1. Family commitment( which in this case would mean commit to ME as our children are now grown and on their own)
2. Honesty and Openness
3. Financial Support
4. RC
5 SF

He ranked family commitment a 9 and honesty and openness a 10...then explains he feels if he is receiving affection, SF and admiration the rest will follow...I am baffled.Am I wrong in thinking that in order to be affectionate and sexually fulfilling in our relationship I have to be able to know he is committed to me due to his past indescretions and I have to know he is being honest and open with me?
I understand that men and women think differently but can we possibly think this differently?
I felt after reading his ranking list that while my list placed things important to trying to rebuild a solid PARTNERSHIP, his seemed to be solely about what would make him feel good.Seems a bit narcissistic to me.Please some one advise.

Hi WW - I'm glad you're here, better late than never.

I think you misunderstood the purpose of the Emotional Needs Questionnaire. Each person answers and ranks the ENs in regards to what it would take for them to feel 'in love'. There is no right or wrong way to rank your ENs, they just are.

You cannot determine what his ENs are or even what they should be. To do that would be a Disrespectful Judgement (DJ). It sounds like you think that he should have filled his needs out the same way you did - and that your list is the 'right' way. There is no right or wrong way when it comes to ENs.

Often, each partner has different needs from the other. Each meets the needs that are important to them and ignores the rest, which results in them possibly neglecting the most important needs of their spouse. That isn't going to work. In order for your spouse to feel in love with you you HAVE to fill the needs that are most important to them. It isn't narcissistic - he did exactly what the Questionnaire asked him to do. Your ENs should be EXACTLY about what you makes you feel good.

Really, it seems like you filled your Questionnaire out with the wrong focus. Instead of focusing on what you think it takes to build a 'partnership' you need to look at what it would take for you to fall in love with your husband. Now, that may result in the same list, but it will remove the perspective of there being one 'right' way to answer.

See it doesn't matter which of the needs is ranked where, what matters is that you know what his needs are and how he would like them met,and vice a versa. He doesn't have to have a high need for O&H but he does have to accept that you do and meet that need as you would like it met. Same with FC and all the rest. The same goes for you. If he feels that if he has Affection SF and Admiration will make him feel in love with you, then those are the needs you should be meeting.

DH and I both filled out our questionnaires a while back. We both listed Affection at close to the top. However, he want's hugs and cuddling for affection, I want little notes and treats. I can buy him all the treats in the world, it won't make him feel as loved as a hug. I can't determine his ENs for him and expect him to be in love with me. It just doesn't work that way.

I'm so sorry you've had to deal with his infidelities. It makes sense, then why you list H&O so high. What have you done to deal with his infidelities? How have you recovered from them? Does he have Extraordinary Precautions in place to prevent it from ever happening again? If you haven't, I would recommend reading Surviving an Affair.

Why are you currently separated? How long have you been separated? Would you consider getting Marriage Coaching?

Ditto what Vibrissa said. The purpose of filling out the ENQ is to find out what your spouse's most important ENs are.

NONE of the ENs are more important or more valid than others. They just ARE.

I happen to not rank AS among my top 5. And before reading articles here, I would've disrespectfully judged someone with a high EN for AS as being superficial. Likewise for FS... until my H didn't have a job for a few months, and then that started draining my LB$, and all of a sudden it didn't seem quite so superficial any more.

You can't reasonably say someone else's ranking of ENs is superficial any more than you can say someone's choice of favorite color is superficial. It just happens to be the things that make them feel loved.

So he will feel most loved, and will feel most loving toward you, when you meet the ENs for Affection, SF, and Admiration. If you try to make him feel in love with you by trying to meet his EN for FC, you won't get very far. If your goal is for him to feel more in love with you, you would be wise to meet his ENs in the order that he ranks them.

(And it is very common that FC ranks high for women but not for men. Your H's ranking seems quite typical. Not surprising, especially since he was in the military for so long. He probably has been immersed his whole adult life in a community that values the man taking care of things outside the home, and the wife taking care of things on the homefront, especially FC stuff.)

So FC is one of your top ENs. If he wants to make you feel loved, he would be advised to work on meeting your top ENs, including FC. Even if it isn't one of his.

But remember, you are advised to meet *his* top ENs too.

If he is willing to give MB a try, then wonderful things can happen as YOU meet HIS top ENs without judging them, and as HE meets YOUR top ENs without complaining he doesn't value FC.


You would be wise to STOP JUDGING HIS ENs. Really.

HIS list placed things IMPORTANT TO HIM BEING IN A SOLID RELATIONSHIP at the top.

Someone could explain better than I can how a man is affected by chemicals released in the brain during SF, that promotes in men a feeling of intimacy, closeness, love. You would be unwise to ignore that, to discount it as narcissistic and less "valid" than your EN for FC.

So his favorite color is blue. Are you going to argue with him that yellow is a much happier color, more suited to a healthy relationship, and that blue is narcissistic? Or are you going to thank him for letting you know blue is his favorite color (important information!!!) and work on painting his den blue?

*** BTW, it is usually recommended that you FIRST identify and get rid of LBs. One LB can wipe out a whole mess of filled ENs. DJs (Disrespectful Judgments) is a particularly difficult-to-get-rid-of LB. Your criticism of his EN ranking is definitely a DJ.

Have you filled out the LBQ yet? There is a thread here of ppl who are reading the LB book, it only started recently, you could join it if you want.

Hi Vibrassa, thanks for the welcome and your input.Perhaps I did misunderstand the purpose of the ENQ.
To clarify though, I was not expecting him to rank as I did and as I stated above his answers to the actual questionnaire were of no surprise to me.Perhaps I did judge his answers harshly and that is part of the many issues we need to try and overcome.This will be a last ditch effort for me.My number one was family commitment..as I never felt a sense of family growing up(product of alcoholic parent) The high ranking for H&O stems from his infidelities.I have not recovered from them and basically disengaged from my marriage two years ago,after many attempts at trusting him only to discover the deceptions had continued.As for preventing it from ever happening again.I don't think I have enough power to do that.I cannot force him to be faithful,committed or honest, if he does not want the same things.I have been the route of meeting all of his EN requirements( by his own admission) and he still continued to be unfaithful..as he put it"I was wrong but I didn't want to hurt her." but it was okay to hurt me..his wife of 20 years( 4 years ago)
I am currently getting therapy for my trust issues as well as to try and enable myself to move past all of the anger I feel from his betrayals as well as my feelings of abandonment( hence another reason why family commitment is so high on my list) and I have asked him on more than one occasion to go to counseling with me and he refuses.
I am so wounded and untrusting towards men in general that I do'nt see how I can possibly go back to meeting all of his needs if I can't be sure that he is being honest and faithful.I feel he needs to earn the trust back and I feel he should be the one meeting my needs in order to make me feel safe and secure enough to open my heart up to love him again.

Jayne..thanks for the LB tips.We both decided we would refrain from that questionnaire until I have my depression and anxiety attacks under control as there have been many angry outburst over the past two years..mostly due to moving back to my hometown and having to deal with childhood issues that have been suppressed for a lifetime, retiring from a career and employment being very difficult to find and several deaths in the family( it has been an extremely stressful two years..throw in a total house remodel as well.)We both agreed it would be unfair to rate each other on some of the questions due to these circumstances but honestly, I have 4 love busters..dishonesty, infidelity, physical abuse and refusal to hold down a job.Anything else can be dealt with.Those listed are deal breakers and he knows this.

Honey, you don't need therapy for your "trust issues." You need a husband who will commit to being trustWORTHY. He can learn this, if he wants to. Does HE want to save the marriage, or just you?

If he is willing to do things differently to get something better than he's ever had (a marriage to YOU that makes him happy and WANT to be faithful, where YOU will be happy too), and you are both willing to keep an open mind as to what that will take, you've come to the right place.

Honest, you have. (Openness & Honesty is MY #1 need too, for the same reason as you, and for the first time, I am GETTING it, after not getting it for the first 37 years of our marriage.)

You will be amazed to see how many of us here have reclaimed our marriages after infidelity using the Marriage Builder program (developed by psychologist Dr. Willard Harley, who's been actively helping people save their marriages for more than 35 years now). We are SO glad we stumbled onto this.

It's simple, but not quick. Takes about two years of learning and practice, but we humans are proving quite a teachable lot. The folks here will help you. But first, read up on the "Basics" and other stuff linked to the home page, and get the book "Surviving An Affair." If you can't find it locally, it's available from the bookstore here, also linked to the home page.

Don't want to overwhelm you. There'll be more info coming at you. Please stay with us.

And take heart. There IS hope.

Right Here Waiting

PS~We were cross posting--I note your depression and anxiety. Normal, but highly distressing. Been there, done that. Please see your doctor for a short course of anti-anxiety and/or anti-depressant meds. You've been through a lot, on top of the infidelity.

righttherewaiting:Thank you so much for the words of encouragement.I am currently on A/D and A/A meds..will probably need to stay on them for quite some time as this is not the first bout of depression I have dealt with a stupidly, 2 years ago I weaned myself off of them.This time it came back with a vengeance and brought the panic attacks with it.I must admit since going back on my meds 6 weeks ago I do feel more rational and I am positive I am easier to deal with and I have finally realized that I cannot control everything.No matter how much effort I put into it.
I came back to answer your question about his wanting to save our marriage.I am going to go on the assumption that he does as he has been cooperative about filling out and discussing the ENQ with me.We have only been separated for 3 weeks and to give credit where credit is due..he has been extremely good about stopping by almost daily after work to take care of the things that need to be done( that I can't handle myself) to complete the part of remodel that is currenlty being done.Which brings up another issue..he says that I am independent to a fault and I make him feel unneeded......personally don't think anyone can be too independent and I would much rather be wanted than needed anyday.Shows how differently men and women think.

Yeah, fact of life that we can't control everything...or anyone else. Hard enough to control ourselves at times. Rude awakening, I remember.

So glad you are on anxiety and depression meds. Made my world a tiny bit saner during the wildest ride of my life. That would be my H's infidelity. He is thankfully, blessedly, what we call a "FWH" here...FORMER Wayward Husband.

How long ago did you get hit with the Affairs? I understand there's been more than one? Ouch. One damn near killed me. I salute you for being coherent. Are your kids grown and gone, or still in the home? Who knows about the A's, besides you and your H?

Not being nosy, just getting the lay of your land. This info really helps folks who want to be of assistance. Might be asking a lot to hope you will trust us, but hey, we've made it past the storm, and really do have something to offer. Besides, we're anonymous here.

Glad you hadn't gone to bed yet. Not too many of us awake at this hour.

well I need to get the heck to bed, just snooping around and saw you over here RHW!
quick hi and hope you are doing well.

Yes, Vit, I'm fine. Good to see you. Caught some of your posts on couple of threads this week too. Sounds like you're right where you ought to be.

Sleep well.

RHW

thanks, you sleep well when you finally get to your bed too!

Just noticed your edit. Happy to learn your H has not climbed into a hole and pulled the ground over his head, or worse, run off with the OW. Good start. Many don't get even that. *sigh*

Ah, another "independent" woman. Oh, boy, my H filed that complaint (only AFTER his A). Hard to modify that, but I'm working on it. See, he WANTS to feel needed too. You, being military, HAD to hold down the fort while your H was away. I don't have that excuse. Doesn't really matter, though, because things we did to make them feel "unnecessary" subtracted from the love they had for us when they said "I do." Who knew? I thought independence was a good thing too. Hadda learn about "interdependence." Which INCLUDES being "wanted."

Happily, you CAN teach a dog new tricks.

Woof.

If you recall, I mentioned in my original post that he was retired military.There have been several indescretions..at least 3 that I am aware of and in all honesty,I have heard talk of others but nothing concrete.The last major one that has nearly done me in began while he was serving a year tour in Korea as I stayed behind with our 3 boys(yes, they are all grown and on their own..27,23,21)and I caught him conversing with her on the computer while he was home on his midtour leave..which nearly destroyed me.After much discussion, he swore to me he was ending it but he picked right back up the minute he returned to Korea without my knowledge..he returned home at the end of his tour..we had serious discussions about his needs and wants.I made special effort to tip toe around..we did things his way, when he wanted how he wanted with no complaints arguments..then the bomb dropped..I found out that he had continue to be involved with this woman.The affair has since ended but only,imo, because she died.All of my boys know of his affairs and the last one caused a huge rift between he and our middle son and I dont think things will ever be the same between them again.Both sides of the family know of his affairs but they all seem to turn a blind eye and just choose to see his good qualities..actually since we have separated,he has been staying with my father..which has opened up a whole other can of worms..the two men in my life who have hurt me the most are now housemates..plus I feel it is just another betrayal from my father so I have chosen not to have him in my life at this moment.I simply cannot deal with it all at one time.
Have I totally chased you away by now..lol.I'm telling you,it's no wonder I have to be on crazy meds and see a crazy doc..I always say..Good thing I was not born with homicidal tendencies......

W+W, I am so sorry you have had all this to deal with. Sounds like your H has (HAD, let us hope) an overly developed sense of entitlement. A VERY overly developed sense. That's also indicated by your feeling you had to pussyfoot around him after his affair, because he's, well, so... entitled to that deferential treatment...nevermind the fact that he's stomped the heart out of the woman he vowed to love, honor and cherish, forsaking all others. If he'd done that kind of damage to his commanding officer, wouldn't have worked out so well for him, would it? (Meaning he KNOWS the proper protocol. He just doesn't respect you enough to treat you that way.)

Blech.

Well, you've already learned one thing lots of folks don't know when they arrive here. Plan Doormat don't work. He continued to take what he wanted and do what he wanted to do, at your expense, while you turned yourself into a pretzel so he wouldn't be unhappy. In this program, NOBODY'S a doormat, but SOMEBODY better get a better grip on what they believe they're entitled to.

This may be your biggest challenge. If it doesn't work, that'd be my guess why. I hope he's man enough to be a good man.

Has he shown any actual remorse to date for ripping your heart out repeatedly, for trashing his vows to the mother of his children? Please say he has (although many, many don't for quite a while after they're "caught." Saving face, you know is WAY more important than a marriage or a wife's heart).

I don't know where my sarcasm is coming from tonight...I'm not normally quite this testy. Forgive me. I WILL get back to my regularly scheduled self soon. Maybe after some sleep.

Just one more question: When did his last affair END? Are your SURE it's really ended this time? What proof do you have? (Or is this the one who had the good grace to die?)

Oh boy, I'm gonna have to get a grip.

No, you haven't chased me off. I just needed to give myself a stern talking to. For some reason, this one really set me off. I'm sorry for shooting off my cybermouth.

So, you have been told that this OW in Korea is dead. Assume it was your H who gave you this information. Can you verify it? Don't want to give you more grief than you're dealing with already, but it may be possible that this woman is, or will be, stateside at some point, and in perfect health. This part of my story is in no way unusual: When my H told his OW the A was over, she convinced him she was dying of Stage IV cancer. The "dying" lie. (Oh, Lord. I just realized why this one set me off. I'm sure you understand triggers?) The cancer she claimed to have was of a variety that would have absolutely precluded sex during the 6 months they were having unprotected sex. (It's always unprotected by the way, no matter what he tells you, so get yourself tested.) She'd not missed a day of work, but the fool believed her, and we went round and round the "ending" for a couple more months because he was so concerned for her health. He feels like an idiot about that now. You will see other whoppers on these boards if you spend much time reading here.

The one absolute GIVEN in infidelity is that waywards LIE. Even when the truth would serve them better. We can't tell you WHY they do this, but it's universal. Maybe it really is a form of insanity.

The LIES are the reason you don't trust him. Since he betrayed your trust, your psyche (your self preservation instinct) is protecting you and won't let you trust him. Trust yourself on this. Until he proves himself trustworthy, you shouldn't trust him. Given the history of multiple affairs, probably over many years, he's got a habit of adultery, and it might take a long time to break it. The motto here is "Trust, but verify." Verify everything. Keep an open mind as you go through the process, but protect your heart.

And I'm sorry you've had insult added to injury with your own father, who's betrayed you before, condoning your WH's baloney. That's got to hurt. About as much as the rift between your son and his dad. Adultery spreads pain through a family like boulders dropping into a pond. The ripple effect is horrific. Something adulterers never give a moment's thought to when they choose this kind of selfishness: consequences. The ones they claimed to love take the worst hit.

More anon, my friend. I'm East Coast and MUST get to bed. I will look for you tomorrow.

W+W I'm so sorry you have had to go through all of this. I'll second RTW - your marriage CAN overcome his infidelities. I urge you to get and read Surviving an Affair together.

Your marriage will NOT recover until you have overcome the Affairs. It is good that you're doing the EN questionnaire, however he needs to be doing a lot of work on himself. You bear absolutely NO responsibility for his affairs - he had them because he had poor boundaries. He will continue to have them and you will continue to have trust issues until he implements boundaries to prevent another affair from ever happening.

I agree - you can't force him to do anything, but you can enforce your boundaries. Tell him what it will take for you to recover this marriage and don't budge from that. You indicate that you might not know the whole story of his affairs. Insist on a polygraph test. You have a right to know the truth about your life if you decide to stay with him.

You both may be tempted to sweep these affairs under the rug, and try to build a happy marriage anyway (I'm sure that is what he wants). I assure you that won't work. Until the environment that created the affairs is eliminated it will always hang over both of your heads.

Again, I'm sorry you're here. But it is the best place for you to be. There are people here have recovered from marriages like yours. It will take a lot of hard work and effort, though.

Is he currently in an affair? If not and if he is serious about restoring your marriage, you may want to get him to start posting on the SAA board - the people over there can help bring him around to what he needs to do to restore your love for him.

I beleive this poster needs to notify the mods to have it moved to Surviving An Affair Forum right away....there's so much help over there for her situation.....please Click on the notify buttom and request them to move it over there right away....also go read over there on a few of the other threads and you'll see why I am saying this...they can help you over there.

good idea gem.

Excellent idea. Don't worry, we'll follow you over there!

I am a FWW and I can tell you the first time I filled out the EN questionnaire, I was not honest with my BH or myself. After some time, we both filled them out again and discussed them. We had a better understanding of each others ENs after that.

You should both be meeting each others ENs and if he is not meeting yours you need to talk openly about that.