You know maybe we need to define what 'relationship talk' is.

Your reply above, is not relationship talk to me.
That is an honest statement of your intention, without lovebusting.
It's also fair to tell WW that her actions have been hurtful to you. That is truth, not lovebusting.

Relationship talk to me is ......... WW what are you willing to do to recover this M? ...... I think we should do MC ...... Here is some MB books, let's read them together ect. ect. ect.
(these are quick off the top of my head, maybe not the best ones)

Gotta scoot, they'll sort it out for you.
You're doing great, it's a tough road.

An open door would look more like this...

W: "Gerk, do you really think we can fix our M?" or "Do you really think you can truly forgive me?"

It does not look like this...

It is "irrevocably" over.

If you decide to state your intention be prepared to get slammed.

FWIW: I like Jim's version better..."I understand how you feel, but it isn't over for me."

That way, you've acknowledged her feelings, and simply state where you are at. I'd probably place it as a PS in your email. So it is set apart from the lighthearted chatter in your email.

Hey Gurka,

I don't think that there's any "right or wrong" call here, so my recommendation would be to do what you feel the most comfortable with.

The recommendations that we're giving you are suggestions based on our own personal situations, and from what we've seen here on the boards over the years.

I think that the main issue is that you not get sucked into any e-mail battles with your W. If you can state your position clearly without sounding needy, or bashing her, and you feel more comfortable doing that now, then by all means, you should e-mail her!

Ultimately, you are the one that's living this out... trust your instincts!

Semper Fi,

RIF

I like the idea of the post script. I think I'll go with that. Probably won't write her until Saturday though

This sounds unpleasant...I know they are her words...but who wants to sign up for HARD WORK AND EFFORT?? Especially when they are w/drawn from you?



This is more attractive. Softer sounding.

I agree with Marsh and Jim!

Good morning Gurka!

Just say you're committed to the marriage, that should work.

She called me at like 0430 this morning. My phone died after the first ring, so I didn't answer. Then when I get to the office I see the following email:
We need to talk, I suggest u call me tonight
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions? Should I call her? I'm a little shaky on that idea. She's probably mad about something.

Yes, you most definitely call her. Just be cool. Diffuse any relationship talk before it gets out of hand. Be calm and confident, but don't sound too eager. Remember what we taught you. You are now going to have to think on the fly. Remember your training soldier because you are about to get dropped in a live combat zone.

Remember, this is a progression of how to reengage her. A couple weeks ago, she was never going to contact you again. Lately she's been emailing you...alot. Now she wants to talk. This is a positive step, no matter how the phone call goes. Just go in with no expectations. She's not going to call you and beg you to work things out with her. She's likely going to scream and blame and say nasty things to you. Expect that going in, and you'll be prepared. It's time for live action!!! You can do it!!!

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What's going on? The suspense is killing me. Shoot, now I have to go to bed. Just be cool. Remember, "I'm sorry you feel that way," "I did what I felt I had to do to save the marriage," "I'm not giving up on us yet; even if I fail, it's worth the effort," "I don't talk divorce, only marriage," etc., etc., etc. Those are you key words if she lashes out at you. Try to stay off those topics to begin with. Have a story of something that happened to tell her.

ditto ditto ditto
omg, I'm on pins and needles here ........


Marshmallow, thanks for pointing out the difference in wording, not how I would word it, but I get it.
Thanks PM!

Ok, she called me repeatedly this morning, eventually I tried to call her back, got her voicemail, just left a short message, "I got your email and your missed calls, just calling to see what's up. I've got to get back inside now, so take care."

She called me back before I could get back inside the building. She said she just wanted to know "how much crazy you're going to put me through." I asked what she meant, she said, "are you going to sign the waiver or not?" I responded with "I'm not interested in a divorce, I'm interested in saving our marriage." She raised her voice, and it warbled and she said "You've threatened every part of my life, our marriage is over. And my lawyer is telling me to sue you for false accusations against an officer! I don't want to, but if you keep making this hard I think I will" I said, "I'm sorry you feel that way, but I've just been doing what I can to save our marriage." She asked, "You're acting crazy, sending me messages like everything is ok." I replied with, "I'm just trying to be the best husband I can be." She replied, "You're doing a terrible job then!" She then moved on to, "I will have you served in August, and I will be divorced by November and you can't do anything about it. If you come near me I will call the police." I replied with, "I understand you're angry, but I'm interested in saving our marriage." She said, "So are you going to destroy all my stuff? Are you going to come and try to kill me?" I replied, "Of course not." She then said, "Don't try to come to Arizona and see me." I replied, "I wouldn't come uninvited." She said, "So what's your plan to win me back, how are you going to make that happen?" I replied, "All I can do is be the best person I can." Then she said, "Well, you're just making this harder for me, since I'll have to deal with the divorce while I'm in class. And your little plan didn't work. Nice try though." Then the call dropped (unreliable international calls.)

You are amazing. You did so good.



She tried to bait you into an argument (many times too), you kept your cool, you won. Great responses, esp. on the fly.

I'm sure it was tough to hear her voice, I'm so sorry that you are going through this.

Oh yeah, towards the end there she goes, "I guess I'll see you, well, probably never again."

Obviously just intended to provoke me. How else would she expect to actually get divorced, or get her things?

The question about you coming to kill her ...... that one is odd.
Almost sounded like she was trying to bait you with something that she could use later. IDK, just sounded like a bizarre statement.

Hang in there.

She's been saying that I'm scaring her for a while. I've never threatened her in any way, said that I would come to AZ uninvited or anything. She just says that she's scared because I'm "acting crazy" by continuing to hold onto the marriage.

Gerka, remember that in her mind, she has to make you out to be the bad guy.

This alleviates her guilt.

There is no reason to look in her own mirror, if you are the reason for her bad behaviour, whatever that is in her mind.

All waywards do this, they all rewrite personal and marital history to how they want to see it.

Hey Gurk.

I rarely post on MB or anywhere else but, I have been following your thread from the beginning. You are getting great support from RIF, Jim, Marshmallow and others and I can�t improve on what they have to say.

Just wanted to give you a word of support.

The nonsense your WW spewed at you on the phone call today is all part of the WW playbook. You�re acting crazy. You are scaring me. You will destroy my things, You will try to hurt/kill me.

It�s all for public consumption. So she doesn�t look like the bad guy for D�ing you. She is trying to build a case against you, at least in her mind. To build you up to be a raving lunatic so she is justified in her actions to D you.

She takes no responsibility for her previous actions of having an A, and then telling you that she wants a D, that your M is over. She was totally justified in that course of action since you are such a Crazy person.

To those of us who have been through this and have seen it countless times over the years on MB etc. it is all to be expected. For some reason the WS has to make the BS out to be the bad guy or they have no justification for their behavior.

You must continue in your current course of action and be steady, calm and resolved to fight for your M. You are the only one who is going to at this point in time. Show her that you are the same great guy she married and getting better. It�s all strategy and tactics at this point and following the plan you have mapped out.

You handled this Action extremely well while under fire!!!!!

JKG

Talked to the DVD vendor, he said the DVDs were on backorder, but he would ship them out express as soon as he gets them so they get to her in time.