So, I need some advice from people who have gone through or are going though what I am. None of my friends or family can understand.

I have been married almost 10 years ( 10 on June 3rd!). 3 beautiful children, my oldest who is 12 is from a previous relationship but my H has helped raise her, and her father is a good dad to her. Our other children are 7 and 3. Ever since the last child I have been feeling myself and my H have had more distance put between us. More work, less money, and less time for each other. We play our roles and everyone thinks we are this great couple, but...behind close doors, we aren't.

So for the past few years we have been sweeping all of our problems under the rug. We both like to go out and have drinks with friends, and had been doing it ALOT without each other. I work at night, bartender and wait tables, so it's very easy for me to stay extra long to have a beer after work. And I have been doing that. Mostly because I would come home to a horrible mess left after dinner from H and the kids and nothing ready for the morning, H would be on the couch, sleeping or watching TV...not at all interested in me. ONLY if I wanted to have sex, which has been so far from my mind, I had been only sleeping with him out of guilt ( from NOT sleeping with him). For months I have been feeling neglected, and unappreciated. As well as he would be feeling the same. But the circle has continued.


NOW...about 3 months ago I go out of town with my mom. Things are the same at home. No sex, no communication. But things felt weird when I get back. SOMETHING changed. I don't know if it was female intuition or what. I start looking at texts, he was talking to some woman, calling me a [censored], and saying he needed to get out of the house. There was other text from her, and I said something to him right away. Of course he tells me that it was nothing, and he was just mad at me.

The next month I still have weird feelings. I start snooping, find on his cell phone bill that there is this reoccurring phone number, I call it. Its a women. Calls at 7am all they way till midnight...times when we were having "family days"! I freaked out!! I call my best friend, she comes and gets my kids, I call off of work, and I wait for him to get home. He had no idea what he walked into.

I very calmly show him my evidence. I ask him, what was going on. He crosses his arms and leans back and tells me he is unhappy and wants a divorce. I couldn't look at him. I still feel sick thinking about it. I say to him, " All cards on the table, are you sleeping with her?" and he says, yes, one time. When you went out of town with your mom. He packed his bag and left...

For 6 weeks he was gone. He came over to watch kids while I worked and told me he loved me everyday. He didn't want things to be over. We started counseling. Things are moving in an ok place. BUT, Hes VERY selfish. Its like this mid life crisis, he is 35. HE still wants "him time" He doesn't get that I can't just get over it. He doesn't understand that I have some major trust issues.

HE does try. We are spending more time together, I feel he does love me, but some days I feel its almost not enough. We are having all kinds of better sex now. I guess its a "honeymoon" stage...

BUT EVERY TIME he is on his cell I think he is on it with her...I feel crazy because even our counselor doesn't think he is cheating, and no one else does either. He has been trying. But my thoughts are so crazy I feel I am going to ruin this before it gets better.

It is getting better...I am working on understand. I feel like I want to know details about the OW, and why...but do I? Will it make it worse? I do understand being unhappy. I have been unhappy. He is a very unemotional person. He hasn't told me he was sorry...like a REAL heart felt apology. I NEED that so badly, for me, for my children, what he has put us though, from one horrible decision he has made me question the last 10 years of my life! AND I FEEL ITS MY FAULT! What should I have done to make it better?

I FEEL CRAZY! I feel alone. Can you REALLY get over it?

GoddessMamma

Welcome to Marriage Builders. Sorry you are here under these circumstances.

Could you please read the link provided and fill in a little more information. It helps all posters to get a better picture of whats going on.

Also an understanding of the Basic Concepts helps so you know where we are coming from.


Scotland's Newbie Tool Kit


Read all you can read and when you have questions post. Nights can be a little slow with traffic. A lot more traffic occurs during the day. By posting Vetrans may see your post and be able to help better than I.
Again, I am sorry you are here but this is a great place to get help for your situation.

Nesre

First of all, GoddessMama, this is NOT, NOT, NOT your fault! You are 50% responsible for the vulnerable state of your marriage, and you are taking responsibility for that, but HE is 100% responsible for the CHOICES he made. (Unless, of course, you INSISTED he have an affair because things weren't going well between you.)

Right now, you're a mess. Normal. We all were, but you can get past that--eventually. I won't kid you, it's gonna be a long haul, getting your marriage out of the ditch and rebuilding it to one you are BOTH satisfied and happy with. And there are very specific steps you both must take to get yourselves out of the ditch. The plan offered here will give you everything you'll need to know and do, and those of us who've dealt with this nightmare before you will be here to help you do it, if you want us to.

Oh, another thing. I know you crave remorse and heartfelt apologies. Doesn't usually happen early in the process. See, he had to do a lot of mental and emotional gymnastics to GET himself to a place where an Affair was an acceptable choice. Gonna take him some time to unwind all that nonsense. Doesn't mean he WON'T do it, but it's too soon to expect it. You'll have to do what you have to do until he de-fogs, so brace up.

Recovery is possible. It's hell on both spouses, but YOU are taking the lion's share of the pain. I'm sorry. We all rail against it, but that's just the way it is.

Gotta wonder what happened in those 6 weeks he was gone that made him suddenly want to salvage the marriage. This happens a lot too, and it often takes many months before even that much fog clears, so it could be a good sign.

What you do next is crucial, if you don't want to send him back down that rabbit hole.

RULE NUMBER ONE: Do NOT scream at him.
TWO: Do NOT hurl epithets at him (even though he richly deserves them).
THREE: Do not DEMAND he apologize or do anything else, for that matter. The ONE exception is that you SHOULD insist--calmly and rationally--that he end all contact with this other woman forever. That means no drinks, no phone calls, no emails, no texts, no visiting her Facebook page. NO contact of ANY kind.

He will agree, they ALL "agree" but you must verify that it's true, because often they will LIE about this. I Assume you know how to snoop, but there are some very creative folks here who can help you with that.

Read everything you can that's linked to the home page, and get a copy of the book "Surviving An Affair." (There's a bookstore on the home page too, in case you can't find it where you are.)

There is a LOT more information you'll need, and it will come in short order, but that should get you started.

Oh, yeah. And remember to breathe. You have just experienced the worst trauma that can be inflicted on a spouse. Be gentle to yourself. You have every reason to hope that you can get through this intact. It won't be quick, and it won't be easy, but it CAN be done. Lots of us here have done it.

(((GoddessMama)))

Right Here Waiting

You have gotten great advice here, welcome, I am sorry you are here....You are NOT goin crazy, okay it feels like you are, but that is completely normal, okay? Read up one this website, it is the best place for you to be right now....keep posting.

Thank you so much...it was great to get on here this morning and see that someone really read my post! It is so encouraging to have others understand, not just try. I guess I should fill in a few more blanks...He SAYS it only happened one time. I don't think I believe that because of texts from OW and SO MANY phone calls and late nights out. But does it matter? I feel like if it happened once it could have happened 100 times and it would still feel the same. He was still coming home and getting into bed with me! He met this OW because we have a neighbor who is single and loves to party and H goes out with him alot! Not now...( at least as far as I know)

There is a bit of a story behind the neighbor too...he flirts with me all the time and has come on to me before. He has come on to me to the point of trying to kiss me more than once. I had never told H about it because H and the neighbor are "best friends" and he lives right next door and I didn't want to cause drama. But when H told me he had had the A I told him about the neighbor. He was really mad ( GOOD!) And hasn't been able to be friends with him since. We stay civil because we all live next to each other and the kids are all friends, but that is it.

As I think back on when the neighbor would tell me I was beautiful, and give me all kinds of attention, I think I liked it, because I wasn't getting it at home. I NEVER thought about having an A with him, but he had mention it before. Sometimes I feel like I could have my own TV show...lol

I am trying very had not to feel this was my fault. I feel that it happened for a reason, and some days I feel it was because I wasn't a good enough wife to H. But, I am strong for my kids. My oldest understands...my boy who is 7 has been acting out alot. I have to stay strong for them.

I am waiting to get some books from the Library, and my counselor suggested Her Needs, His Needs. That is how I found MB.

Welcome to marriage builders, GM... you will find lots of support and info here. Make sure to read everything you can on this site. It's worth the time. Follow the link nesre put up... many vets have been working on it recently in order to help newbies.

My $.02 for you is about not feeling that it is your fault. I went through a LOT of guilt feeling that my WH's A was my fault - I have depression, anxiety and a really nasty temper and anger problem which I felt drove him away. It has really just recently come to me that this is NOT my fault. That he made crap choices which me and DS now have to live with. I guess the point of my little story is that I'm not saying you won't feel guilt and feel at fault for some time... just know that many of us have been there and eventually you will realize it was his poor boundaries that caused it, not you.

Most definitely read surviving an affair - that has been my "bible" so to speak.

{{{{{GoddessMama}}}}}}

Hooray for your counselor for directing you to Marriage Builders! Hope he/she will help guide you on this path, as will we.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, you are NOT responsible for your H's affair! He did that all by himself, without your knowledge or consent. I submit that YOU were offered an affair as a way to get what you weren't getting in the marriage and you held to your boundaries and your core values. You are correct in assuming this happened for a reason, I think. It was almost inevitable, since neither of you had the tools to affair-proof your marriage. Exactly what happened to every one of us here on these forums. Now, you will get the tools. Only question will be, will you BOTH use them? If not, it'll be curtains at some point down the road. This is MUST-LEARN marriage stuff here.

You mention your little boy "acting out." Of course he is--we think kids don't understand, but on a deep-down level, they sense a threat to their emotional survival and that of their parents. Please get him some professional help too. Maybe your counselor can recommend someone, or there may be some no-cost help available through the school system.

So amusing that your H was incensed that neighbor-boy was spooking you. And so typical of wayward thinking. Absolutely entitled to get a little on the side himself, but livid that someone might come on to you. Wayward reasoning isn't as good as your average two-year-old's. It's GOOD that this POS neighbor is out of your H's social life. He is no friend of your marriage. Have nothing to do with him, either of you. He is poison. I know this is a challenge, but you should inform his wife about what he was trying to do with you. THAT ought to help minimize contact, don'tcha think?! AND give HER the truth about HER marriage so she can take steps to repair it. Only fair, no?

About whether he "did it" once or 100 times doesn't change the fact that he held you and your marriage in contempt and did you and the M great harm. Still, be prepared to find out there is a lot more you don't know. I say this because the cardinal rule concerning waywards is, THEY LIE. About EVERYTHING. They tell themselves (and will try to convince you when the truth comes out) that they were only trying to protect you by hiding the truth. Squirrel poop! They are protecting their own a**es.

Well Neighbor-Boy ( I like that) is single. He has NO PROBLEM sleeping with married women, he is the one who is friends with the OW, and has slept with her himself. OW has met ME and my kids...makes my stomach turn. I am so thankful H is staying away from him, and I think H has realized how much he is NOT a good friend...HE IS POISON to my marriage.

H is being very good today. He texted me his password for his cell this morning. I had mention in counseling last night it bothered me that he wasn't being transparent, and had changed his facebook and cell passwords. so that was nice that he did give it to me.

Our counselor says that we need to start doing things "on purpose" to think before we talk. And I know I'm am trying very hard to do that. He, on the other hand, doesn't. He tells me on the way home last night, " I"m going to go have some beers tonight" ok...he knows its my ONLY night off ( I work at night, ALL weekend long ) He gets mad when I don't respond. I'm trying NOT to YELL, not to show so much emotion. But I get so scared.

H doesn't have the ability to show emotion very often. I really needed to hear that I will HAVE to WAIT for the heart felt apology. I feel like I NEED it, but do not want to force it. He told me that there was no way he would open up like that in the counseling...he does talk, but it isn't what I want, I want emotion.

The counselor brought up the OW last night. He asked H why he continued to talk to her. H says to keep tabs on her so that she didn't go crazy and tell me. He has told me it was " because she listened" (I just puked in my mouth a little there, lol) H gets very quite and hates to say anything. Which I figured, but how do I get through it without knowing what happen? How much do I want to know? What is TO MUCH?

Is there any certain part of MB that I could get H to read and relate to? He seems willing to try stuff...he has been going to the counseling, and as long as it doesn't have anything to do with talking about OW, he's ok with it.

GM



Is this the counselor you see together? If so some counselors assign homework for the couple that may include reading the book together. You read one page - He reads one page.

The idea is to establish one on one undivided attention and time together.

Not to bum you out but WW and I were to do this assignment per our marriage counselor (MC). We are almost through chapter 3. The assignment was given in Feb of 2009.

I had and read the book long before the assignment was given. Counselor even gave us one, I have read it again by myself once since then.

Your experience may be different. Even if my WW never reads it I KNOW IT HELPED ME>

Have you read through all the material I referenced in my post to you ?

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...rds=Scotland&Search=true#Post2370385


Nesre

GM- I am sorry that you are here. I have some additional questions for you. Have you exposed this affair to everyone? Is your WH still living out of the house? Have you read up on ENs, LBs and Plan A? It seems to me that you have a WH in an active affair. Am I right? Can you snoop to find out?

He sounds like a lot of men who just aren't well versed in expressing emotions. Might be partly in their nature, but has a lot to do with the way we socialize boys. "Feelings" are for girls, and pity the boy who wears his heart on his sleeve. As well aware as I am about the challenges women face, I sure wouldn't wish to be a man. A shame we have trouble empathizing across the gender lines. There's hurt on both sides.

Your H might do better with phone counseling. I know insurance will only pay for face-to-face (which I think is idiotic) and I assume you have insurance covering your visits. Could your H be phone-conferenced into the session with you and the therapist? I've never heard of such a thing, and it might be a goofy idea, but who knows? Given how men loathe "public" self exposure...

If you can afford it, I'd highly recommend a phone session or two with Steve Harley. I'd begged my H to see an MC with me, more than once over the years, but he'd have none of it. Yet, two phone sessions with Steve, while the affair was in full swing turned things around for us. Best $200 (an hour) we ever spent. I have no idea what Steve said, but since I don't believe in magic, I can only imagine he's got divine inspiration.

Your H is still in touch with OW, so the affair is active, no matter what he says. He is still "hooked." I know his comment that OW "listens" made you want to but he just gave you a bit of gold. He's telling you he didn't feel like you "listened" to him. Great clue to one of his most important emotional needs. Could be conversation, but more likely it's admiration. She is not special, and doesn't hold a candle to you, but somehow she makes him feel good about himself. YOU need to do that. You know him...see if you can figure out how. Not likely he'll tell you while he's still tangled up with her. Read the section on Admiration here and in Dr. Harley's book, His Needs Her Needs.

Odd that he's given you passwords and such. How does he communicate with her? I'd tell you to look real hard for another cell phone, or a secret email account. There are folks here who can advise you about keyloggers to find the latter. Till he goes no contact with her, recovery cannot begin, so it's important to break up the affair completely. Who have you exposed this to?

Don't expect revelations from your WH till he is done with OW and she is completely out of his system. Certainly not an apology! This could take a while. Your job in the meantime is to break up the affair using Plan A, showing him with your behavior that you are the far better alternative. It also includes exposing his dirty little secret to family, friends, and anyone he doesn't want to look bad in front of. Yeah, he'll be mad--they all are, but oddly, they all get over it,probably because they're watching us become the woman they fell in love with all those years ago.

Hang in there.

GM,

Just a thought. You said you would like to question him further about OW. Let me offer you a different tactic that might help both of you more. Why don't you ask your H what he has learned from this experience? He will talk abit about the affair, but what is important is what he has learned from it. You NEED to hear this and it will help both of you in rebuilding your marriage.

You might also want to ask yourself the same thing. what have you learned and how will you use it in the future to have a better marriage?

Try that. It will open up communications abit. You must remember girls grow up talking about feelings and therefore have developed speech patterns to express how they feel. Boys almost NEVER express feelings except about pain, and even then we are socialized to "man up" and ignore the pain. Therefore, your H probably doesn't have the speech patterns to discuss his feelings. This means if you ask him how he feels about something emotional he is going to have to probe to find the feelings and the figure how to express them. It takes time and most women won't give men the time to do this. Men don't fear silence most women do, therefore most women will fill the silence with other questions, hints at what they want for an answer or something and eventually the guy will say "I don't know." Sit there in silence and wait, it will seem forever to you.

Focus on what you two have learned from this experience and discuss how what you learned can be used to make your marriage better. The tools here are wonderful for guiding people in making a plan, and if your H will read the articles he will develop a vocab that he can use and you can understand. Reading here for him is not about work as much as developing a common language with you. It will help if he will do it.

God Bless,

JL

Yes, we see this MC together, and I have been reading all kinds of books, one of them is called " Getting the Love you want" he just assigned us some "homework" to do this week. H is not much of a reader, so I put post it notes on pages, and he has been reading them ( I will kind of quiz him )

When I got home from work last night he was reading THE BIBLE! And the other books I have were sitting there with him...IDK what he is thinking, he seems to be into it. He has been talking about planning an anniversary trip for our 10 year that is coming up the the 1st week in June. He also, out of no where text me his password for his cell phone, which he had changed. I still check his Facebook page and he has that password changed too, but not alot activity on there and he has deleted the OW from his friends.

I have been reading this site and have gone thru some of the post you sent me. Thank you very much. I'm still waiting on some books from the Library. I really dont want the H to come on this site in fear he would join and read what I have written.



My big worry right now is that he is acting so nice and good...it seems stupid to be worried about that, but it's weird. I would hate to say anything to make it change, maybe he does feel bad for what has happened, and is trying to change and make good. BUT, what if its an act...

I will try to think positive, that it what has been getting me thru the days...

H is living back at home now. It has been a full week. I have exposed this to EVERYONE! His family, my family, our friends...when H decided to move out I made HIM tell the children. H's father left his mother for an OW and married her and raised HER children. I know he has serious issues with that and in MC the other night he expressed that he had always hated his dad for doing that and that he was ashamed he had the A.

I'm still very confused. To JL...I think that is VERY GOOD idea, he has a hard time talking about it and I know he doesn't want it brought up, but I do think we have BOTH learned ( and still learning) about why this has happened and how this experience has affected our lives, not just ours, but our kids our parents, our friends...

I don't know if he is communicating with he still, and if he is how? I may need to do some more snooping, but I am scared to find more. I feel like a fool. If I find more, I know he is still a liar. But if I don't then I'm still in the dark...??? I feel like I am obsessed!

Had another stupid fight with H last night...everything was going fine, and he had asked me earlier in the week if I cared that he go watch UFC with some guys on the 29th, I was ok, I appreciated he asked me in advanced, and didn't spring it on me last minute, like usual. Last night he tells me he wants to go wake boarding that weekend as well. I was hurt that he didn't include me, and he knows that. But he turned it around, told me to stop playing the "victim" and he never gets to do anything he wants to do. I work EVERY weekend night, and I don't get "me" time. I would LOVE To go with him, but not if he doesn't want me there. He said to me " this is our problem, we don't get along!" Yet we have been, but when I express my feeling, he starts in on me...I am having lots of issues with how selfish he is and him not thinking of me. he told me he can't be my "robot" and a prefect H. I know that, but I feel some days he doesn't even want to try.

Another night of crying myself to sleep.

We went to church this morning, and it was all about friendship, and building good foundations in our relationship. I pray to the Lord he was listing.

I'm reading about Plan A. Not sure if it will help me...I will keep reading.

Hi GM - Based on what you've shared with us, it sounds like your H is sill in contact with the OW, or at least is still wishing he was. I'd keep snooping... I know it's hard, but one of the things that I learned was that my 'gut instincts' were usually right on target.

You can't start rebuilding your M until there is 100% NC. Wishing and hoping isn't a plan... as much as you don't want to find anything else, it will be worse to "wish & hope" that there's NC, when in fact he's still talking with her.

His actions are speaking much louder than his words...and from what you've told us, I'd keep snooping.

Semper Fi,

RIF

I know...I hate to think about it...

He told me he has nothing to hide...yet I do feel something, (maybe, more that HE WISHES?). His actions seems to change everyday. They are having me work alot me at work right now, and I work at night, and thats when I"m afraid he is talking with OW. I haven't had a chance to look at his cell for a long time. Now that I have the password, it seems like I never have a chance to snoop. I don't know how else to snoop on him, he doesn't get on Facebook ( as far as I can see) and now that he has this blackberry phone he never uses this computer.

What should I do? Snooping wise, and so he doesn't know I"m snooping. I'm am to weak to fight with him. All I do is cry and he totally thinks I"m being "the victim" and hates the crying. I cannot help it. I balled my eyes out in church today and was worried it would bother him.

I want to show him I AM TRYING TO regain TRUST AND WORKING ON CHANGING MYSELF, FOR me, MY KIDS, AND OUR M.

At this point I just don't know what to do. HE has told me MANY times he isn't talking or seeing OW. He has been home every night, or has been with kids. Some actions point to the positive, and others, like the fight last night, he makes me nervous.

He raised his voice at me, told me to stop "acting like a *B*, ( he thinks that its ok to say that, he not CALLING me a *B*, I"m just ACTING like one) he verbally attacks me, he did have a few beers in him...

Another note too, with our anniversary in 3 weeks, we booked a cabin in KY ( where we used to always go and where he proposed to me) We spent alot of money on this place and I am hoping for a great weekend alone together. I just hope its not a wate of time and money...

thanks RIF

Hi GM,

I would strongly recommend that you DO NOT trust your H right now... his actions are not trustworty!

You say that your H uses his blackberry now and not the computer or cell phone? Can you look at his blackberry statement on-line? How about putting a voice-activated recorder in his car?



A "few beers" isn't an excuse for him to be abusive, either verbally or physically... Again, his actions are saying things that are totally different than his words... for now, all you should "trust" are his actions, and your gut instincts.

I'm sure that there are others that can give you some more pointers on snooping... the weekends are usually slow here, but some more people will show up soon...

Have you read up on Plan-A? If not, do so, then see if you can start working on a good Plan-A while snooping, then snooping some more!

Oh, and I think that your anniversary will be an excellent opportunity for you to show him a great Plan-A! ...but remember, keep snooping!!!

Semper Fi,

RIF

Do I understand Plan A right, I need to not act mad (yell) at him, not disrespect him and not demand anything. In hopes that will show him I am respectful of him? In that case I have been...and I think we have done plan b, he moved out for 6 weeks. With young kids, it was hard for him not to come around when I worked to watch them..

He has a short temper when I cry, I dont know if I can help that.

I looked though his blackberry today, what I could understand, and I got on his facebook through there too. I didn't see anything that would make me worry. Not to say he doesn't know how to erase things. It is his work phone, so I have no access to it. He did have a plan with me that is how I found out about OW. We have turned that phone off. He drives different cars, because of his job. I don't think a recorder would work, I never know if he will be in truck, car or van!

Tonight we plan on putting kids to bed early so we can watch TV together. Hopefully tonight will be better than last night.

When I have questions for him, or want to talk about how I'm feeling, like about our fight last night, he gets annoyed, how do I get through to him then? Without the argument starting? He is so hypersensitive to anything that has to do with "us" right now. Do I let it be for awhile? I don't want to push him away. But I also need to deal with my feelings. Any suggestions?