Actually, I had a therapist that I went to...and I kept goin and not following her advice and asking her what to do....It sounded like I was being logical at the time...

finally she said to me "why do you keep coming here and wasting your time, your not doing anything that I suggest." So I left.....

She was right and I am still dont have a handle on my depression, my fault not hers....but I needed to face the fact that I just wasnt ready to change yet....I am thinking of going back to her.

When I was in the hospital, after listening to me for a day, the therapist said, "So what are you going to DO? Don't you think it's time to start DOING?"

Of course, I did leave the hostpial three days later.......:)

You don't think this forum can influence their desicions? Then why post to anyone other than those who agree and already follow MB principles?

Agreed we are all responsable for our own actions.

We can only influence people to a certain extent...we are not magical. Well maybe Melodylane and Mrs and Mr W are...but the rest of us are just regular people trying to help others who will accept our help...thats all.

Wouldnt it be great if we could magically make all waywards who come on here see the error of their ways and change them...Hmmmmmm, Just a thought Dr. H.

My earlier post about "Good Cop, Bad Cop" wasn't in jest.

When I first started posting as a BH, I was dealing with my own type of fog. A few of the posters were really rough (bk comes to mind) but they opened my eyes to a few things and those who were a little more gentle were able to make some inroads. Then the next time those who were less diplomatic came around, I was actually able to listen to their points and things became more clear.

Style points can matter. Not everyone responds to 2x4's right away. Eventually, they get it.

Different methods get through to different people.

And this is when the forum is at its best, when regular people who have been through the same storms, are trying to help.

Fear overrides common sense in waywards and BS's. There are BS's that have also left or not followed advice from this forum, some return, some don't. But you don't see the same reaction to them, that you do the waywards. I understand the anger towards waywards, I do..more than you know. But the betrayed family, deserves our efforts, even if it has to come through the waywards.

I think the good cop method has been tried for the most part on these posters....then they have been talked to by the bad cop and it either wakes them up immediatly, wakes them up after a while(even if they are only lurking) or they just were not ready to do what it takes no matter what....

You just havent read enough posts to find them.

Maybe your right, I haven't been able to read every post. But even Mrs. Wondering's intial post was less adversarial than those recently posted.

I don't know what has happened in "Joey"'s situation. I was hoping to see if he would stay around long enough to persuade him to apply the MB principles.

And long enough to have his BW get some support and advice from the forum too.

Not magic, waywards have seen the error of their ways by this website and the forum. There are Former waywards who post here. What if every wayward that came here, turned their life around?

That's the goal to set.

That is a good goal...and one that it is ultimately up to the WAYWARDS to reach.

True, but we do have impact. Every post does make a difference in real lives.

IMHO that's a HORRIBLE goal to set as it requires something out of control: the actions of those coming here for advice. If even one doesn't turn around, are we failures?

I'm sorry but I can't spend my nights sleepless wondering, was that adjective in the wrong place? Should I have used another word? Was I too mean, too harsh, was I too nice? All I can do is the best I can with what I'm given and as long as I'm operating from the standpoint of Building Marriages, that's the best I can do.

We CANNOT control the actions of others. We can influence and persuade. Everyone has their own method of doing that. I think everyone here has the same goal: the building of marriages. But all we have is words.

The fact of the matter is we know almost nothing about the people that post here. For some honey may work, for some vinegar. If we all posted the exact same way, dripping in honey - how would we reach those who need vinegar? We need all sorts because there are all sorts reading. That's just the nature of the medium.

There may be some here with their axes to grind, but they are few and far between. The people you accuse of being 'too harsh' have the same goal as you: building marriages. Because their method of achieving that goal is different than yours, it's wrong?

I know many who don't like MelodyLane's (just as an example) approach, especially when first getting here, but you know what - she gets through to people.

I don't think you're going to convince people to post your way, and it's kind of arrogant to think your way is the only/ best way. You post your way, and let others post their way and somewhere in there the right words will be said.

However, I refuse to take responsibility for the marriages and lives of those who come here. You may argue around it, but that's what I'm hearing with your rant.

Excellent post Rissa!!

I have never said the advice that comes in the form of 2x4's is wrong. I have said that when someone hasn't done what was told to them, in the timeframe (one week) of someone on this board, that they should not be treated disrespecfully (i.e. name calling, or implying belittling statement to them) and that it does not mean they are not trying to work through things.

Don't take responsibility for anyones actions but your own. Said it before, still saying it.

Yes all we have is word. And words are very powerful. Words can be used to build up or tear down quickly.

I have tried not to bring any specific poster into my posts, as this is not directed towards any one person. I have accused nobody. I have pointed out that their seems to be very little patience with waywards when they post here recently.

"My way of posting" "your way of posting" This is not about 2x4's, or honey or vineger, it is about helping people re-build their marriages. Be-littling them is not vineger, not helpful either. When it becomes personal attacks, you are no longer trying to help anyone.

I have not criticised anyone for a wrong adjective nor wrong choice of words. I have brought out the point that MB principles do not include tearing people down with be-littling statements. My "arrogance" comes from the same MB principles you espouse.

I do not want to be mis-understood, so I will clairify I have never intended to vilify anyone on this thread or imply their replys to me are attacks. I realize there is a lot of passion for this forum, and this is just the expression of it. I take none of this personally. I hope none of you do either.

I only want you to take responsibility for your actions and words. Nothing more. With no goal you will never get where you want to get to.

What YOU want and what YOU get can be two different things when it comes to trying to reign in a whole community of posters to your way of doing things and probably as futile as trying to control where raindrops fall.

If you see personal attacks - you are free to report them.

True, but maybe the next wayward that approaches the forum, will fair better than the last few.