It's because most men DO fall in to that category - but not all. It's ok if he doesn't fit in to that category - it's a generalization and there are always exceptions to those. If he keeps getting hung up on the fact that there are 10 ENs listed and he wants a larger list, then ignore the list of 10. In fact on the Questionnaire, there is blank space to put in your own needs that may not be on the list.

I believe I remember reading that the 10 that Harley put together are just based on what was true for MOST people.

So he's getting hung up on the EN list - throw it out. Give him a blank sheet of paper and tell him you want him to feel loved - ask him to write down the things that make him feel loved. Don't assign categories.

Again it seems he is just poking holes in things to keep from having to work.

Tell him you aren't wanting to know his ENs so that if you meet his he'll meet yours. That's the wrong reason to meed ENs. You meet ENs because it is the right thing to do and what you vowed to do when you promised to 'love each other until death do you part' at the alter. So tell him you want to know his ENs so that you can be a better wife to him and for him to feel loved.

Just my $.02

I have done that already Vibrissa.....I said well if the 10 that he is listing arent' what you need to feel loved by me than just use the blanks instead and tell me what they are.

He said he couldn't just come up with them....except one....he knows what his top EN is....and I already posted about this one too....his top EN is to have a close male friend that he can talk too....sorta like a father figure replacement as his is no longer alive....that is his top EN and he said it with such certainty and conviction....and said this is why when I tried the MB program by myself 7yrs ago that it didn't work out so well cause I was meeting the wrong need.

Please don't blast me here....I get that he is all messed up here....and this won't create romantic love between us if he gets a new friend....OK...I am clear on it folks....I also explained to him the EN's for our marriage...what would create romantic love between us and that whether or not he has a male friend or not will not cause him to feel more in love with me....I explained it all so clearly....he has since not responded on the topic now....I was planning on requesting him to share his EN's this weekend if I see him for more than 20mins to do so.....

I am positive I will get nothing for my effort.....but will go with your example once agian Vibrissa....I will say it word for word and report back....perhaps he will change his mind and realize that EN's are for our marriage so we can love each other fully.....not something to be traded like tit for tac kind of thing....I will run this by him again if he starts with the I need a good male friend thing to replace my Dad.

gemstone, it sounds like your husband is not being honest with himself. He wants a male mentor to tell him. That's good. POJA with him how to get a real mentor, not a peer buddy.

He needs to find some older person who has walked in his shoes in his line of work and can tell him that he is making this mistake and that mistake, etc.

I don't know what he does, but the SBA SCORE program of retired executives would be a start. Really, though, I think he needs some IC. Can you get him to talk to the pastor at your church? How about something like Lutheran Family Services, which will help anyone, and connect them with a counselor?

Now I remember your situation gem - sometimes people get mixed up in my head.

Yeah he's a bit confused - these are ENs that need to be met to feel in love with your spouse- not ENs that need to be met in general. Those ENs for romantic love need to be met first and formost by your spouse. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, gem - I know YOU get it, it's obvious that your husband doesn't.

If he goes off on the need to have male companionship just stick to your guns: 'I understand you need male companionship to be happy, but that's not what I'm asking. What do you need from me to feel in love with me?'

If he can't answer that question ask him 'What was it that made you fall in love with me back when we dated and decide to marry me?' I'm sure he was in love with you at one point - if he won't give you his ENs now, maybe you can look back to what made him first fall in love with you and use that as a starting point.

Your husband seems to like to get off topic with hypotheticals and extra stuff, just stay focused. Every time he goes off say 'I hear you, but that is not what we're talking about. I am talking about ______". I saw in another thread you're considering getting some coaching. Good for you - let us know how it goes...

Just realized this is a bit of a /tj - sorry bout that.

You are right N2F and that was what I meant..

Too many ppl make marrigesomething on thier "to-do" list in life, rather than a living organizim that needs to be maintained and fed with the proper food, think the right thoughts, and practice good habits.

Women on average sense this I believe intuitively. Men diagnose it factually with knowledge of how things feel. The details of life distract us from staying close to each other through very troubling times occasionally and MB shows us What a "happy" marriage is and what contributes to the happiness and why.

Two of the posters here have explained that reguardless of how much they meet the emotional needs of thier wives, thier wives don't find thier needs valid. One wife said that she felt her husband should have"ED" and that was normal and her Husband wasn't normal because he has a healthy libido in his sixtys. Thats a DJ by any means and she is not caring fo his needs or being honest. Is she being honest to him about her needs? I wonder if she is being honest to herself. Its posible she is just acting out what she thinks is the way she should be. Its posible shedoes not have the drive. So much is possible but the DJ blows it all out of the water when she blames him for honestly expressing his need.

I don't know why she is ignoring this or why she has a master plan that doesn't include intimacy with her H to the point of communicating her innermost desires and security issues. It seems that something is askew. Maybe a sex therapist and MB principles are in order but being a giver without recieving is very painful over time Confusion of the issue by pointing out comaprisons to others is absolutly the oppisite of caring for your spouse because you aretelling them "I don't like you the way youare"

BTW A strong libido and a Mans desire to experiance that his wife wantshim is HEALTHY. May we all experience that in our marriages.

Now if she cares enough to let a counsellor tear down some walls she might have built over the years...

Retread he won't open up period...he told me he doesn't think he could speak to a psychologist over the phone like Dr.H or anyone else for that matter...he won't do it period. At least not at this time....

And his need for this old friend or mentor is difficult to find for him....as most men are NOT gonna tell him he is doing anything wrong...they encourage IB and the job comes 1st...tell your W to take a # and get in line...and believe me my H has repeated that to me...just did it 2 days ago..."you'll have to wait" is one of his favorites...he says yes I know you have waited but I just can't do this right now...problem he can never do it....and it's been 20yrs....I think I have been a very supportive wife to his needs....so much so that I created the out of control selfish man he is today....once they get the taste and addiction for the hours and the money it can bring in there's no reasoning with them on it...NONE.

I will do this....again...I will ask it just like you have here.

I have asked this one over the years...and he usually says "cause you were so direct" or "I thought you were very beautiful".....so he pointed out my O&H back then is what I would classify it as and my looks. But I will re ask this and see what he says over the weekend and report back my findings.

Much of what marriages need for recovery is admitting they are not happy and living in the knowledge that they can change that. Its OK to say to each other.."This sucks"

Our pride tries to tell us that we did everything perfect and it must be thier fault or at least someone elses. Crap..wasn't this where we were before we got married? Didn't we find someone finnally that we trusted with our heart? Im not talking about Co-dependancy that means we expect our mate to make up for every hurt in the past or leap tall buildings in a single bound. Many marriages start out that way but its hoped that even those in time mature as the individuals mature.
Maturity changes us and makes us stronger and "ABLE" to love our spouses, even if they are full of flaws. Its important to love ourselves first and accept our own flaws as part of our inability to properly understand our importance and why we so very often try to act in ways that will make people love us. Realy what we are looking for is to be loved just as we are.

Something that before marraige we seemed to pull off fairly well and sought someone to make a new person with where we also were strengthened as we strenghthened them. Open and honest with using forgiveness for ourselves as we do with the partner.


Someone made a great point above. We can't negotiate someone into loving or caring for us.

The only thing we can do is love them. IMO, if we love and care for ourselves and know we are worthy of care we can Love and care for others and believe they are too. If they are poking holes in the boat we can ask them to stop and eventually get out before we all sink.

One of the most precious things anyone can find here is that support that we are valualble even if we make mistakes and are not perfect. We are human, full of feelings that are not allways expressed correctly and we have to learn how to love, which is not a feeling ultimatly but an action based on what we learn as we live. Realizing we have feelings and dealing with them responsibly as we also do with our spouses is part of the journey that will never end. What happened to that imperfect vessel searching for the love and acceptance we learned we could never earn? When we found our spouse did we think that our search was over or just began?

There is a whole new world open to us if we could just let the old one go as it pertains to how our past relationships hurt us and/or how we allowwed them to. What I hope for any marrige is that they see thier spouses through new eyes and are honest enough to communicate everything they feel as they sort out the real and good things and throw away the garbage that hurts them while they cherish the opportunity to do that.

BTW gems

I like what Vibrissa has said about your sitch too.

You are supposed to be his best freind going beyond what the ways guys traditionally think

Hope weekend goes well

Gemstone, I know a guy that says SF is one of the last things on his EN list. He thinks being a good parent and his W being a good mother, the kids getting very good grades at school, running the household efficiently, and domestic tranquility are top needs. We was single and had foster kids he took care of. When I think of him, I see him in the orphanage manager role.

Now that he is M, there are his foster kids, her kids, their kids, and that part wasn�t easy. After their kids, most of the sex ended by his choice.

Lou

I have been off the site for a long time. But thought I'd see what is going on with the topic of sex. Well, we are still talking about negotiating for sex. Man that is sad. I have a question for you.

Question: What is the difference between a hooker and a wife who provides sex for her husband only because he provides something in return?

Answer: The number of clients.

If my wife does not desire sex with me but does it because I provide a house, cars, and a father for the children, I am a john and she is a whore, period. I am so tired of the B.S. and euphemisms I can't take it anymore.

Of course, it is too late for the married men on here (or women who need SF). However, when it comes tiome for my DS and DD to date seriously or think about marriage, you better believe I will be encouraging them to think about this and to talk to future spouses about it. They can't control whether their future spouses are honest, but they can try to spot the red flags before they walk down the aisle. In other words, if DS feels strongly about the need for SF, and his fiance sees it as not a big deal or an unspoken payoff for what he does....I might encourage him to do some more thinking.

Gem my husband wanted this as well. The guy pals to do guy things with. So I went and fetched him some, and while it didn't all go according to my evil plan, I was present for the conversations where the other guys said things like "There shouldn't be anything you can't say in front of your wife" and "I would love to have a wife who wanted to do 'guy' stuff with me...my wife won't go camping or watch action movies or ride ATVs. Dude, you're lucky. The only reason I do this stuff with the guys is because she won't."

Too bad we fell into a group where there was an overwhelming mentality of guys do manly stuff and girls get their nails done and watch Nicky Sparks movies. That was leading us down a road where he would do the things I like to do without me, and I would do...nothing, because I'd rather spork my eyes out than gush over nonsense romance movies with a gaggle of giddy girls over margaritas. Maybe the testosterone thing has some merit.

Do you have a church with community groups?

Lmao

This is why I said he needs an older mentor, not peers. You used the term "father figure":


If he says SF is not at the top of his list, don't make a DJ by dismissing that. He probably has Affection and Admiration up there at the top, with SF not far behind them. As things improve (or get worse) the priority of ENs change. No matter... we are supposed to be working to meet all of them.

Give you H my anonymous MB email. I give financial, business and technical advice for a living. Delusion busting is my business. There are plenty more crusty old guys like me that would be straight with him. Bring him here and let him ask advice from OG_LOU, MrShorty, or SSO.

But I will re ask this and see what he says over the weekend and report back my findings. [/quote]

You don't NEED to ask you him again....he told you. You do realize that Physical Apperance IS a legitimate EN and so is Open &Honesty? THAT is where you should be focusing.........when a wife makes herself beautiful and appealing to her H then he desire to spend time with you.........

Do you think you are missing the mark on these two EN's?????

Because if you ask me, his answer that you posted was VERY telling......

Not2fun

Not2fun

I am in an investment club. We use the advice and operating policies of Better Investing.org
http://www.betterinvesting.org/public/default.htm and the Software and Tools for Investors and Investment Clubs
http://www.iclub.com/products/default.asp

I also work a little with the Edward Jones corp.

Any advice that you know works any better?

Lou

not2fun.....I keep up with both of those en's.....I am very O&H...I believe he really doesn't like that to be honest....things that you think you liked 20yrs ago you may no longer like.

As far as my apperance....yes I keep up with that....he tells me I am beautiful and compliments me on my slim body and form....says I am so much younger looking then other women my age....so I would say he is pleased.

Neither of these would be anywhere near the top for my spouse....unless I suddenly gained 30lbs...but being a size 3 in juniors jeans isn't gonna upset him any.

Just a note about attractivness and openess and Honesty and really just abaout anything our partner might say they need.

If we allready deliver, Is it possible that they find something else to want? But wait this is about being willing to please your mate and them wanting to find out what you want right? . It becoames something different when we ask them to perform so we will start to love them again and here is the list you have to change.

Wouldn/t it be cool to heear. "You don't have to change anything dear. I love you just the way you are and love spending timw with you"?

yes I think so....I think the EN's change depending on what's happening in life at the moment.