I'm so angry reading this last one. Could you not see how the last A hurt b_r, did you not care?
You witnessed the damage, I just don't understand how you ignored that and went on to pursue another OW.

For me, it's a given that you would whine and complain about your W, how else could you get sympathy from OW, who is also at the bottom of the sludge barrel.
Think about your complaining and whining of your W. Your wayward and selfish thinking does not allow for your W to be anything other than a lousy wife.

One more vent from me.....

You call yourself an idiot for your A's.
My H told me that I was stronger, I was better, I wasn't as stupid as him, since I didn't have an A and we were in the same weak M.
You know what, I'm not stronger, I'm not better, I am stupid sometimes. The difference was that I didn't ever let myself get into a situation that would lead to an A.
Using those terms as an excuse for having an A, are just that, excuses.

You made a choice to allow yourself to go further and further into a secret life, a life that would hurt b_r.
If you believed it would not have hurt her, then why didn't you just tell her about your GF?????

vent over.

IHS, I would get your work cell phone # changed. Explain to your employer why you need it changed and ask them to respect that.
Please erase all avenues for OW to contact you.

I agree, I didn't respect boundaries, I didn't respect my wife. I did everything to justify my actions. I put myself in a position where this could happen in the first place.

This is my thought on affairs. My husband had an EA from 8/2005 until I busted them in 9/2006. And even then, it was as early as 9/2005 that I saw the inappropriate emails from his old gf, after a reunion---and I asked him to stop. And he said he did, but that didn't last long. (wish I had known about MB back then...) Much more trickle truth came out in the next few months (I didn't even know she *was* ever a gf of his until a few months after the reunion and I also didn't know they were in sporadic contact through the 18 years of our marriage.)

Who knows if it would have gone PA if 2000 miles hadn't separated them. My H wants "credit" for not taking the opportunity to meet up w/ her when she was in/near our city. I give him none. He never should have done it in the first place.

And I tell you that, IHS to underscore my point. In August 2005, BOTH OF US WERE MISERABLY UNHAPPY IN OUR MARRIAGE. When he got on that plane to head back to his HS reunion, I actually was hoping something would happen and he wouldn't or couldn't come back (yes, like a plane crash...awful, terrible of me..I know).

But I didn't cheat. I never thought about cheating. It was never on my radar. He was the one who had poor boundaries.

And I will never feel quite the same way about him again. Yes, I will be in love with him, yes I want our marriage to thrive and survive and yes, I'm hoping we will fully recover.

But it's like a bone that breaks. It's never as strong afterwards.

And his stupid, selfish, entitled thinking did that.

Mark your posts are very insightful. What an analogy to committment. Both go into the proverbial fire but one only gives some of self while one gives their life.

IH which one are you?

Sure sometimes M is boring and sometimes it just is terrible but why do some cross the line and go into these A and others don't? You have to unravel that thought process and fix what you have.

I KNOW that I have been the chicken, and still am. But I want to be the HOG, to be committed. Thats why I am here, I want to change, address everyting from my thought process to my ethics to my boundaries. I am listening to advice. Actions trying to show my wife that I want to be committed.

I agree, thank you for your post.

You've been responding well, keep up the good work!

Soooooo,,,,,,

How are you thinking today?

Give me a lot of detail please

HOW and WHAT are you thinking?

tst-

I want my wife back, I am taking actions, but some things are taking a while. Books still haven't arrived, (although I am in my second full round of reading this website). My appointment with Dr Harley isn't until Tuesday.

I texted and called my wife almost all day yesterday, we talked for a long time. We havn't done that in forever, it was hard listening to her, the hurt, but I did and we talked. I told her what I had been reading on the website and how that made me feel. We had very detailed discussions on it. I felt so much better afterward.

There are tenants to marriage and I am getting those. To be honest the affair, the emails, and the need for attention was just the tip if the iceberg. Take out the affair and assume it didnt happen...well to be honest I have been an all around poor husband. Cheating is a symptom of bigger issues and only one of the ways of how I managed to treat my wife like crap.

Other than me having a good salary and me NOT physically abusing her, let's just say that I have been failing at just about everything else. My love bank is about in debt as as our country is. My wife has put up with so much, sacraficed so much, only to not be protected, cherished and loved like she should be and should have been. The worst part is... I have done those things in the past and believe I am capable of doing those things again.

There was a time when we literally made our families sick because we were so stuck on each other. They would tease us all the time, tell us how we were going to give each other worms and to "give it a break" and "if we could function alone". I love her, and I have been thinking of those times alot. What i used to do right, when I did manage to make her happy. And I havent just taken her for granted, it goes much deeper than that, and I know that.

I want to make her happy. I am trying and I think I am making little step of progress. I want to be the man, the husband, and the father of her children that she should have. I want to make my mom proud, my kids, and myself. I want that, and I hope she can see that I want that. I think partly because she can because she is at least talking to me after I read sections. I want to call her and talk to her about it. And for all of you that know her, she does know this stuff, and she is helping me, and if you ask her I think she will tell you that I am listening. I get excited when I call her, I worry when she doesnt answer and I am happy when she does. I am thinking I am taking the right step, moving in the right direction.

I am sitting in an airport, just finished my job interview and told the my interviewer about my need for no travel. I even told him that my biggest reason for being there was to be a better husband and father. (honestly, this was the truth 4 months ago when I applied for the position). And if this doesn't work I am going to find another way, I am going to stay home (0 travel). I have talked to my wife about secondary and beyond that plans to make that happen.

I have a lot of debt to make up for and I cant just not be "even" in the account, I know I need to be home to make deposits. The love bank thing BTW makes so many things click for me, I got it, that I think about a lot. All the other pieces contribute to or take away from. No one is perfect, and thats why there is bank.

I have been gone all week and I miss her more now than ever. She says she can't promise anything about our future and I count myself as lucky that she isn't saying no and putting her foot in my butt as she kicks me out of the house.

I want to show her more action, thats what I am thinking. That I honestly want her. And I do love her, I do.

tst - I hope this is what you meant, let me know if you want more, please be specific. I feel like I am rambling, but she is eating lunch so thats the reason I am not talking to her, so I thought I would share.

And I am open to more ideas for my actions. Thanks for listening.

That's a great start! Thanks for the reply.

What did you think of the Radical Honesty concept and all the questionaires related to that?

I was thinking you might appreciate the link rather than seaching all over for the RH Concept

LINK to RH

I think he is right, honesty is good. My wife has known me since I was an runt in junior high, so I really didnt start lying until well into our marriage. She knows my anieties, most of my fears. And for the most part I dont think I am way out there or anything. So in some respect answering the questionaire wasnt that difficult. At least not to my wife and we have over 20 years of history. She knows me. My issue now is not telling her about my days, holding back on whats running through my brain.

My nature at least in the last 10 years is to not tell anyone anything. I kind of bottle everything up and have since being in the military. Unfortunately, I have managed to carry that over to my wife, the person I should be sharing things with.

But for her like I said it goes beyond that, I didn't share, I purposely held things back, and most of it for no reason at all. I don't have anxiety about many things, but the ones I do, well its big. I will be up all night thinking about it, my need for attention, people liking me, and unfortunately work. All things that I gave higher priority to than my wife.

The biggest piece for me that I don't know is exactly how to change it. I know action, and acknowledging it and making items a priority. Thoughts? Ideas?

It is going to take an effort on your part to abandon the old habits and develop new ones.

Read here;

LINK to Instincts & Habits article

After you read this link tell me what you are thinking.

Part of working towards R is following Dr. Harley's plan to a tee.
One part of this plan is to send a NC letter, and it bothers me that this has not been done.
It's not b_r's job to walk you through this, I'm sure she did the leading after the last d-day.
Since you are here, we will do this guiding for her.
I can only bet that she struggling to get through a day without crumbling, you may not see it on the outside, but it's there.

The NC letter is significant.
It's implies that you agree to end all contact with the other A person.
It's a gesture to the BS that the WS is doing their part to restore the M.

It also guarantees no misinterpretation of contact.
A WS can't say, 'well I didn't think an email, a quick hi, a pic, a mailed letter' was contact.
It states no contact via all possible avenues, and this is made clear to the OW by you, and indicates your comittment to this also, to b_r.

I look back on the day that I asked my WH to write his NC letter. He looked at me with a deer in the headlights look.
Mumbled that it wasn't necessary, that they were simply friends and he promised to not speak to her anymore.
He thought it was unnecessary, and over the top. ( fyi, it wasn't for another 2 months that the PA side of the A was revealed)
It took that man over 2 months to write that letter and every day that he didn't take it upon himself to do that, I cringed.
I can tell you that although it was just a letter, it was one that I needed to know was done.
However small that piece of mind I had after it was sent, it was important to me, it may be to b_r as well.

You know that look that my WH had on his face when I asked him to write the note, it made me question myself, that maybe I was the paranoid one,
and that asking for this was overkill.
I think now, that look, was his fear of not seeing or talking to that POSOW again, writing and sending that note would make that possible.

Write a NC letter, then give it to your wife.
Make a copy of the final draft to refer to if necessary, see this way you can't say ' I didn't think .....'

and

change your cell phone#.


You want to protect NC, don't you?

What's the plan for today, IHS?

What can you do today to demonstrate your commitment to BR?

How have you shown transparency today?

What Marriage Builders concept are you learning today?

That's the way it's done, BTW, one day at a time, one act at a time...

Still havent received my books, but read another book "Life Lessons". It was a good book, made me constantly think; about my life and my actions.

I know that my expectations are not set in reality. I have not really ever given myself to my wife. There are supposed to be disagreements and arguements in relationships. As I have stated before, I shut down during disagreements. I dont communicate. I feel axiety about my relationship with my wife. I believe I detroyed all the feelings that she once had for me. Not sure she could love me again. I am doing my best to address me and my poor attiudes toward people and myself.

I filled out my survey's today for Dr Harley and submitted them.

I want this to work. I know love my wife.

I focused on The Most Important Emotional Needs. I know I talked about this before but I didnt put my wifes needs as a priority. And stayed away making sure she couldnt focus on mine.

Keep workin'...

Thank you, if you have more advise I am up for it.

My wife is very fustrated with me

I swear getting certain answers out of you is as hard as calving a first time heifer!

IHS, how are you protecting NC with OW, which in turn protects b_r, which is what your main concern is right now??

no I am sorry, my wife was very specific with me
and I have offered and my wife has asked me to have no contact at all and doesn't want me sending the letter. I am respecting my wifes wished for once and wish nothing but to obey what she wants.

Now there's a golden nugget of truth!

That's a tough one to admit, but it is so valuable to recognise.

An ole' freind if mine used to say; "You can't fix what you can't see is broken" and then he would add, "becoming aware of the problem is 99% of the solution, the other 1% is taking the step to change it."