This thread is dedicated to all seeking answers on what makes them tick in the relationship dept. Many of us have made poor choices and are alone now because thier marriage partner would not seek help when it was offered to them, for whatever reasons, foggy or whatever.

Of course this thread cannot replace a counsellor who is trained or is treating someone who is questioning thier own self-worth because they have been betrayed or left by thier spouse.

Its the old proverbs 11
Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.
That this thread is in the spirit of..

So its a question and rant thread and I hope it can be a support one also.

So whats more important to love your mate or love yourself?


If the definition of love is to take extra special care of someone then what does that care consist of? In my opinion it has to do with forgiveness and reaching out for the really valuable things life has to offer that can be simple but we make them so complex. In my life at this time I am attempting to put things in perspective and at the same time questioning if my perspective is healthy. So I am not yet content to stay the same way without personal growth. I am trying to come back to the human race and stop feeling guilty for the impossible tasks I could not accomplish,(mostly saving my wife from her addiction and subsequent death), which must come from a desire to appease a inflated ego. Or at least a self worth based on who I could save. Believe me I was aware of that specific trick of the mind and never intended to live my life saving others but how did I fall prey to such vanity in past relationships? Whenever anyone,even my wife would do all the goo-goo eyes "your my hero" crap I looked around for the bucket of sand to make sure they were not planning on useing it even if they at the time were not aware that in thier mind they were setting themselves up to look for it later.

I act and do what I do because it is what I think/feel is right and I expect that others would recognize that and thats all. I hoped that others would see this and be willing to do the same if they had a chance to, not make me responsible for everything good in thier life and rule over them with some kind of supernatural "crystal ball" that can see thier deception and prevent them from making decisions that destroy themselves.

Part of why I have gotten into these relationships in the past has to do with what I think of myself and what I deserve. A good friend of mine said once I was a "Prince who thought I was a Frog" That was nice but it didn't help me only that in time I just set aside my emotions and said to myself I must be spoiled and didn't know how lucky I was. Of course I also did not listen to my gut feelings or advice from friends when I got involved with my second wife. Instead of going to colledge and taking phycology and social studies while seeking out a counselor to sort out my undefined guilt and anxiety I again attempted to have a relationship when niether of us were relationship material. Our obsession with our personal pasts were baggage not left at the platform for either of us and we lived to "fix" ourselves. In the end it was a selfish thing based on the shame we were trying to hide for being human. Its an endless futile battle.

So what do I do now? I would love to have a relationship with a woman but I know I am not good relationship material. I would rather, if it were a choice between the two, have a positive attitude and be grounded in reality with no needs from anyone to feel whole. I can be freinds with women and I have some. I would allways rather be a freind first anyways right? The question is what are the triggers that caused me to "need" a women in my life? The first girl I was with was my security blanket as it was my first girlfriend and in many ways she saved me from my own self-image issues when I was 16 years old. The second was a woman who knew a lot of scripture and seemed to want the same things as I and I found out to late that it wasn't true. But in both cases it was fear of hurting someone innocent,(hehe like who is innocent), that set the relationship up in my mind as what I should pursue.

So what triggers my desire for relationships...as co-dependant as they become..?

I am reminded of the groucho marx quote "I wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member" It seems to be where I am at right now and thats fine with me. There is so much work for me to do on myself, physically, emotionally, and financially before I will ever consider myself happy with me or confidant that I could be a good relationship partner and I see years before that could happen anyways. Its the right way to be anyways and any woman who would have me at this point would probably have her own issues she wasn't exploring completly. I don't want or need a Mommy lol.

What I need to define and fight against are what might be hidden in my subconscious the triggers that compel me into relationships that are unhealthy. In the past I slept with women and never compartimentalized sex outside of the relationships very well. I found that it was only if I truly didn't care about them much that I could "love em and leave them" I thought that sex was part of "adult" relationships and that there was something wrong with me if I didn't try to make the moves on a woman. I am old enough and had my head handed to me in that falacy enough to accept the truth that sex outside of total commitment(=marraige) is not for me and I don't want to change that about myself. I guess that I am not in love enough with myself to live in that Bull lol. I guess I am going to miss out..rofl. Anyways I would not fall for the guilt thing of sleeping with someone anyways and feeling responsible for thier wholelife after, and didn't when I was in my 20s and single without some other component that drew me in. I used to make it clear during my single days after my first marriage that if they slept with me it was because they wanted to and if they didn't have a good time I was sorry. No strings sort of twisted deal in my head. I wont go back there for a million bucks===Priceless===to be free of that.


I guess I am multi-tasking because it will take a lot of time,selfexamination,therapy, and work before I seek to take extra-special care of anyone but myself or even be ready to give love to another. But I am seeking what triggers me into relationships that are toxic where I get walked on and think I deserve it. I know I can't trust myself completly and the truth will set me free. I have nothing to hide, prove, or fear from the truth that I am human and tempted likewise as all the rest of us to cover ourselves with fig leaves.

In the end whats more important to me is that I can look myself in the mirror every day and know I have lived right before God and man.

Be damned badluck, throw a hammer at that mirror! If you look at yourself too much you start looking at the stray hairs, the scars from past wounds, and that mole that everyone else didn't even realize you had until you said something that one time...

The same goes with our inner selves.

When you are alone, it is all about treating yourself with love, because you are an investment gaining interest that someone else may find worth investing in as well. That's why we get into a relationship in the first place. Once we are with someone it is joint investment plan to carry on the analogy, and we have to invest that love in another. Ideally, they should be investing as much as you to keep it a happy marriage.

Being with another biologically makes us feel whole and happier than being alone. Studies prove it as well as simple observation. In a relationship we can become unhappy because it turns into a case of being alone with another person, where only one is investing and the other is taking withdrawls(Hehe, lovebank reference now that I think about it.). Completely different problem than "not being marriage material."

I get the impression you've tried to be the fixer of others a few times? Or somehow feel that you owe them more than they deserve initially? To me, if a person needs to be supported they won't have enough strength to hold another up when called for. This is the problem with "fixer" relationships, as the person needing support will just gravitate to someone who can support them the best. A welfair relationship essentially, at cost to you.

Being brave to suggest, I'd say try finding someone who is independent and self assured if "fixing" others is something you find yourself doing in relationships.

Lastly, avoiding commenting on that last sentence with any significant depth, just simply, that it is endlessy open to interpretation between each set of ears the idea rests between.

EDIT: Let me add, I agree with the intent of your last sentence. I personally get a great deal of grief given that I don't believe in anything, (Even less so since my WW betrayed me.) I as you, follow my principle beliefs to be the best human being I can be. Honorable, loving, and giving.

Its true I have done the fixer thing and have given my opinion quite a bit, probably stuck my nose in also where I thought I could help. Lessons learned..

I thoght that wife 2 was independant because she held a job and she seemed to know what she wanted and I thought we wanted the same things. She wanted to be independant and respect each others needs. Her problem with not knowing a responsible limit to partying or balancing it against her job was just the tip of the iceberg for her but I saw it too late.

It was my fault, I moved to fast. I reacted in fear of losing someone who would not wait while I went to colledge. She was convinced I was going to troll for colledge girls. I assure you I had that thought of course that I would date them before I met her but I don't cheat on my Girlfriends. Its just not how I work. The last time i acted that way was when I was 16-17 years old. But wife 2 could not handle me going to school so I did not have the support I needed from her in that and I caved.
Funny my Mom says the same thing about my Dad. She met him and he wanted to marry her way faster than she thought was comfortable but she agreed. Then later on only to see him take her life savings and buy land he didn't even discuss with her as he continued to have problems treating her right, avoiding counselling with anyone. Having problems with his Mom and Dad because of his behavior towards his wife and everyone really.

It was hard for us kids, me being the oldest only son felt it was my fault that Dad was allways so miserable. I recognize that my 2nd wife with her issues and me trying to fix, or help, her was a lot of my wanting to help ppl like my Dad. I knew that a long time ago.


The next, if there is a next, close relationship with a women will go very slow and easy after I am allready happy with who I am and what I do. There will be no slavery even if it has allways been in my own head anyways. How it got there is really irrelevent and for the shrinks to figure out its up to me to not buy into it or let it effect future relationships as baggage. (sounds good on paper but I suspect its gonna be easier said than done)
Its gonna take time either way and as Gramps allways said, "Haste makes waste". IMO relationships are our most valuable gifts we have in life. Why rush them? If we don't fool ourselves with thinking we "need" someone to be OK ourselves. We have a better chance of having a healthy relationship.
Then that new one can be built by two people and they add to each others life as they willingly give to care for the other.


Well thats the idea anyways and I can't take it lightly but I can't overthink it, but I can't take it lightly but I shouldn't worry ..

Someday, when I am ready, I hope to find that friend that doesn't need me but enjoys my company. First I need to enjoy my own.

This question seems so easy to me now. It is by far the most important thing to love and care for yourself first. And here's a bunch of reasons why:
1. It is my belief that God had a hand in making each of us. Therefore, our lives don't really belong to us... we are rather stewards of our lives. If we don't take care of ourselves, we are dissing God and neglecting our stewardship duty

2. It is only when we accept and care for ourselves that we show the world a consistent image of what we are. Until you like and accept yourself, your behavior will fluctuate, your opinions and values will vary. This makes it unlikely you will attract a partner who is truly compatible with you.

I would add a suggestion to go with "go slowly." When you find yourself in a new relationship remind yourself early and often that love does NOT conquor all. In fact, it takes very little to conquor romantic love. This thought helped me use my brain and keep my pheremones in check.

Very true about the stewards thing, We have this gift, and there is no excuse for not taking care of it.

The romantic love thing we have for another human being is conditional anyways. Scott peck described it as "falling" in love because we fall for the fantasy of the perfect person. As Dr Harley has taught staying in love takes work.

I wonder when it comes to the time of dating, What I will like or look for? It would be interesting to say the least. I have changed so much in 25 years. Not anything I need to worry about now anyways and by the time I look I will have changed again.

pheremones or hormones? And I'd agree with that, but in my dating experience, many divorcees seem so paralyzied and afraid of making a mistake that the won't get into anything at all. You aren't going to find that perfect person, nor know for your that it's the right girl/guy until you really spend time with them.

Yeah DKD I know thats true. In my case 25 years ago I was trying to hard to be an understanding guy and be tough enough to love someone who didn't have the tools to love me back.

The trick I think is to not try to hard and not worry to much as you remember to follow the rules.

I say Amen to what GreenGables said...I don't think we can be good for anybody else if we aren't first taking care of ourselves, both spiritually, physically, mentally, emotionally. We can't "fix" anyone or take them on as a project...we must let them be responsible for themselves, let them be the mature grown up we have faith in them to be and if they can't be...it's not the right time or person.
I learned so much from my last (XH) situation...to listen to our inner self, pay attention to red flags, don't let someone explain something away, if something doesn't look/feel/sound right...most likely it ISN'T right! And if someone else fools you anyway, shame on them, but get gone as quick as you can! The things I pay attention to first and foremost now are CHARACTER qualities...is the person honest, caring, do they have daily spiritual nourishment? Add a sense of humor and you've got something!

I've heard it said that confidence is attractive...but you seem to be exuding low self-esteem...I'm not sure where that's coming from, but it would be good to find out and work on it. Maybe you are shorting yourself and need to focus on recognizing your good qualities!

I think your post is right on. In the long run I could talk all day about what I think are good reasons to feel bad but it would just keep me triggered. I just lost my wife last May and it was a troubled marriage to say the least. I tended to take the blame for everything and it has been tough separating myself from guilt. Thats why Im here. To see what I had done wrong and be accountable for it and to kick out the undefined and unrealistic guilt issues. Besides.. if you want to be healthy you hang around healthy ppl. What could be more healthy than wanting to better your relationships with others and understand the gift we have from God in our fellow man.

I had severe low self essteem issues as a child but was determined that God would not abandon me and I would find a way out. I don't want to paint my life as a failure because I have had many good things in it. Right now the temptation to deny my depression and push myself back into life and stop feeling sorry for myself is strong. My children worry about me because my health is not who I was in my 20s,(I'm 52) and they have wondered how I worked as hard as I did in the past. The doctor told me I could not work anymore after three hospital visits in 3 months.

So now my job is to take care of me instaed of serving others in the workplace. That hasn't helped my self-confidance because I was raised to work and spent most of my time in the trades. I am looking into colledge again and am optimistic that I can again serve others but in a different capacity. I once had a dream of getting a BA in sociology and continuing to law to be a civil lawyer. It could still happen.

I need a dream again, a goal I believe in. My wife getting healthy and us laughing at each other until old age took us home was my dream, my cross I hung myself on,(sorry lord) and truthfully my ego trip that is gone now and the repercusstions have left me pretty empty and ashamed. Its one of the sayings on this board that.."Its not marriage at all costs" and its one I wish I heeded years ago. Really though I knew it but had no support in it. Instaed I hung in there and did the suffering servant gig which served nobody.

God is working on me, he has awesome ppl out there and here that speak the truth in love. I have a church, a pastor who visits me weekly, awesome loving Mom and my own children who honor me with thier character, a 2 year old grandaughter and I am seeing a therapist to talk things through. But I am not yet excited about anything yet really and have been feeling beaten down for years now.

I feel as if God is drawing me near to him through all of this and am willing to give him time to mold me. Its OK, many times its the valleys that we grow in. Iv'e been here before and allways have found a way out.

Maybe from what I just posted you can see that I am pretty seriuos most of the time. Painfully self-consiuos and easliy feel responsible to help people as I get guilty very easily. Im safe here showing that side of me. Here where nobody will ever meet me in real life but in the real world nobody can afford to be too nice.

"Life is a stage and we are but its players" I thought I learned via hard knocks that trying to "help" some ppl was just an ego trip for the control freaks in life or those who loved themselves to much. But shame on me for not trusting God to take care of them as I took care of myself. That which I am doing now as I fight my way out of this pit I dug when I didn't trust Him.



Thanx for taking the time to point out that I should look for help. That concern was help, in ways more than analysis can give if you KWIM.

OK crown me now I deserve it

Im not completly without a sense of humor LOL

So this thread was about triggers and feelings. Here is an example about what I mean.

The obvious way to be able to trust your feelings...hmmm. OK How about this? You have a life where the truth is allways told to you and you accept it. People treat you well and with respect and you know it. Your relationships are driven by positive ideals and fear is not the deciding factor in how you treat others because you would rather be dead than live a life of bondage to fear. Lets say for example that someone lived that kind of life, a blessed one really, would it be safe to say that they would have a gut feeling or instinct that they could trust? Would what they responded to emotionally in other people, (like an internal trigger that sparks interest or relationship) be a familiar good thing that set well in thier heart?

Sorta like when they train Bank tellers. They give them real money to handle all day while they train and when someone hands them a counterfiet they can "feel" it.

So what about those of us who were lied to by someone who said they loved us? What about those who were not respected and were manipulated because they felt responsible for everything that ever went wrong? ,(gaslighted). What about those who knew nothing but fear most of thier lives? What would be the long learned and ingrained driving forces they were so used to responding to? Would thier feelings be counterfeit and they didn't know it? Would they seek to return to the familiar such as a home and situation filled with drama or abuse, self or other inflicted?

I remember a Movie called Equais. It starred Richard Burton as a Psycologist who was studying a young boy who slaughtered some horses. The boy was brought up abused and twisted as his caretakers beat him and told him to pray to a picture of Christ on the wall above his bed each night. The Boy was moved to a stable when he was young enough to work and instaed of a picture of Christ he now had a picture of a Horse above his bed. The boy prayed to the horse and when a young girl refused his affections because he had grown into puberty. The boy went mad and murdered the horses, whom he worshipped. The point isn't is this believeable but lets pretend it happened for a sec.

When Richard Burton was watching the boy get wheeled away in a straight jacket, he said this. " My duty to this boy is to remove from his mind so twisted everything he percieves as real and comforting. Everything that he thought would love him, his God, though greatly nothing like God, is all he knows. Once removed, what will he believe in now? How can I empty this child and give him a life that even comes close to healthy. How can I fill him once he is empty?"

That scene is one I will allways remember. Its more what we are like and our human experiences than an imagined perfect one where we never get lied to, never get used, never are afraid and sell out to it for the familiar and hence comfortable. The crazy boy was completly abused and everything he thought of felt was twisted. Most of us just have some of our lives messed up but none of us gets thru without some damage done to us. Its how we deal with it that is important.

Scotty has in her sig line...

"Scars remind us where we've been, they don't have to dictate where we are going."

That says volumes in hope for those who have been hurt and thier heart has been scarred over by past experiences and they just don't feel like they are loved or can love again or worthy of it. The truth is like the velveteen rabbit who thought he wasn't loved because he was tattered and worn. When the truth is it was because he was loved. Live and learn. we are lucky to be here and alive, to love and suffer for others when need be and to recieve the care from others that feels so good.

I am working on me and as you can tell there is nothing I wont talk about or ask and my posts are long enough so some probably don't read me. It has allways helped me to communicate and chances are if you are reading this you have nothing better to do and are seeking answers as I am, or you would be out there doing it I hope. This is a time for me to ask all those stupid questions that I have in my head and vent. Someday it will stop and I will have talked myself out and sorted out my heart. When I can again trust my feelings and be confidant that what my instincts tell me are correct. That will take time I have never allowed myself as most of my life has been about performance and blind duty, sometimes fearing the wrong things or loss. But under all my whining I know that in time God will bring me out after he teaches me what I need to learn. I just wish he would hurry up before I end up on everyones ignore list

This deserves to be singled out and highlighted.

There is an excellent thread on this subject, please read Mark1952 posts:
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...t&Number=2243454&nt=6&page=1

It was of immense help to me in understanding what takes place in the brain and how to deal with it.

If you are talking about self-esteem, it is better if it is God-based instead of us-based. We have to understand we are valuable because He made us in His own image and valued us enough to die for us...once we understand that, we realize we aren't just a piece of dog-meat.

The steps you are taking are good ones, enrolling in college, etc. Recognizing who you are as God's child is a great step.

I have that short-cutted to my desktop lol. It is a very humbling post also because its so loaded with facts that demand we must admit, we don't know as much as we think we do, and with that there is hope for us.

I am seeking all my expectations to be filled by God as I deal with myself and whatever negative lies the enemy trys to sell me. Most of all I wish to achieve balance internally and wisdom from Him. Gifts there for the taking for those not to proud to ask.

To be secure and love others with compassion and wisdom would be the best thing I could ever possess. I will let God be my compass as his mercy reigns.

Thanx all



This thread is et up to be T/jed or for ayone else who wants to vent/share/ask a question.

Anyone?

Well some good news and it applys to the trigger and emotion part of this thread.

I accually imagined what it might feel like to be wanted sexually. Lol. What a crazy life its been these last few years.

Don't worry I'm not going out and buying a red sports car or anything its just nice to imagine the possibility instead of feeling so dead and rejected.

But thats what this thread was for anyways for us to search out emotional responses and past triggers that cause us pain and to discuss how to protect ourselves in the process.

If anything everyone should know that even when you think you have been tromped down by life so bad you will never get back up again.. you can.

I never realized, until all this, how just about all of my self-esteem was wrapped up in what others thought of me. Most of my hurt stems from the realization that my ex seriously doesn't love me. That my so-called best friend (who had been quite cozy w/my ex) no longer loved me. That many of the friends I thought I had disappered with the divorce... so even though they did love me at one time (I hope) that love has long since disappeared.

I look at myself after age and childbirth have taken effect, and feel pretty worthless/undesirable and realize that it's all wrapped up in other people. Instead of looking at my own intrinsic value as a child of God.

SortedSomeOut said:

Seems like the healthy people don't want to be around you when you're hurting or otherwise trying to get healthy.

Daisy, that is true, but you have to hold your head up and realize your own value whether anyone else does or not. I know that after losing your spouse to death or divorce and watching your friends disappear rapidly, it seems a lonely existence. It's one that requires intrinsic effort...going out of your way to be around new people and trying to make new friends...and it doesn't happen overnight. Meanwhile, I got a dog, and it was the best thing I ever did!
1) I always know where my dog is
2) I get all the loving I can take
3) I'm in good company, he's very funny and entertaining'
4) He's loyal
5) I don't have to dress up for him...he doesn't care what I'm wearing or if I am overweight.

I do have to take him on daily walks but I figure that's good for my health. And I have to share my Doritos too but I figure that's probably good for me too.

Daisy, there is a saying that newcomers to A.A. hear: Fake it 'til you make it.

This has worked very well for me. In A.A. and elsewhere. It's helping me now in my recovery from the firebombing of my marriage.

Don't misunderstand: This doesn't mean put on a happy face and go dancing through the streets. It means telling yourself that you're really OK, that you're going to get through this and come out the other side.

And when you do this, you look and act better. It doesn't mean the hurt is gone, or that you don't have moments of extreme sadness.

It goes hand in hand with another saying: Mood follows action.

Every post I've made on Marriage Builders about my recovery has been the absolute truth. I am getting better. I am recovering. But every day I have my moments. I had one just a few minutes ago, while walking down the stairs. Why...? What if...?

And then I regained my senses and remembered that I wouldn't take back my WW now if she came to me on her hands and knees begging.

This is an unpleasant time. Perhaps the worst of my life. The old life and the old friends I (we) had have disappeared. I'm now trying to build a brand new life.

At 58, it's not the easiest thing to start all over. But what other choice do we have?

I know this is getting long. One more short story:

This evening I went to a "50-plus" night at my local community center. It's poorly named. It should be "70-plus." But the people were friendly, funny and it was a pot luck dinner. I was openly accepted and invited to join in. Even though I probably won't go back again for a while, it reminded me that there are caring, friendly people who would like nothing better than to spend some time talking with you.

Let them.

Well now that opens a whole line of thinking doesn't it?


I do know what you mean tho about how when we are hurting the people we used to know and maybe even sometimes listened to about thier problems or helped in some way, ya know, our friends, seem to find a way to avoid us. Sometimes its because they don't have the capacity to help and allways counted on us to be strong, and sometimes its just inconvieniet in some way.

But this is when we have a chance to let all the false towers of BCrap that we thought made us valueable or important melt away. . Sometimes we are just let to think things through and be alone because its obviuos we need to do some soul-searching and people recognize it.

Its lonly at the top. I can't go to my chilren because what I want to tell them about how and why all the reasons I am depressed and lost probably has to do with thier Mom. They know as messed up as Mom was, she loved them and di the best she could when she was healthy emotionally and mentally. I have to let them come to thier own conclusions about Mom as they need to be revealed. Also it was my wife and the pain I feel from that should never be handled by them ever.

So I have a counsellor to help me focus and identify whatever my problems are and help me not only feel better but act better. It just takes time ,introspection, reading, good thoughts, and reaching out to the ones who know we are all damaged goods from the beginning anyways and lifeis for learning.

Being alone without depending on someone who can't , or chooses not to, love us the way God wants us to love ourselves and others can be the best thing that ever happens to us. I am now going to dig deep and identify what I want out of life while I still have a chance. I will examine, turn over all rocks, and push myself to get to the core of what makes me tick and not have to worry about evrybody else to the destructio of peace of mind. I pray God will bless me with that and I will not fall into wrong thinking or have to deal with severe health issues, me or my children.

But most of all, I wantto stop feeling so bad about myself. I don't want anyone in my life that I give the power to use or hurt me and that will be up t me to discpline myself and accept that Godloves me.

I never used to talk very much about my feelings for to long. Mom and Dad had thier own issues and becoming a parent at 18 I had to suck it up and at least appear confident and act correctly even though I wwas scared to death. .

Once I realized it was attitude that made the difference and that problems were blessings in disguise to be worked out it helped me a lot to cope with much pressure. Still...I should have gotten counsel to identify many things about myself.

But then again, how much self examination will it take?

There is a scripture from the old estament. and I might be using it out of context but it causes me to have hope tha I am not as pathetic as I feel, that God knows our value even when we don't...

They judged themselves, by themselves, and they became unwise"

I'm crying now because my late wife, in a time when she had clarity, told me that one but how the words effected me and touched my heart of course are gifts from God to me and thats what the beuty of scripture is. Its personal.

Now my most important relatioship will be the one I have with God and I am seeking to get closer to Him. As far as people go, Its slow and easy and as objective as I can be for them. Emotional closeness might be obtained with a women someday but there is no rush. I will need friends first that I can count on and if I had to make a choice between having good friends and peace of mind or one relationship that was a lot of work I had to white-knukle it thoug. Ill take the friends.

Besides, the relationship will start with friendship anyways right? Its the baggage that will need to be stowed first because I never want to need anybody like I usedto. I don't believe God intended me to anyways. It was me who made that mistake.

Yeah Daisey we are here too so share with us and learn from all these other ppl that not only are you not alone, but in good company with others who dare to love.

I've heard so many mention about accepting themselves as God sees them...so why is it that churches carry so much stigma surrounding divorce? Even when it was revealed that my (now ex) husband was a con man that stole from me, cheated on me repeatedly, and had no intentions of ever living with me or buckling down and being a real husband to me, my pastor still would not say "yeah, you need to get a divorce". People treat you like a leper if you're divorced (at least in my conservative Baptist church). Why is that? It leaves you feeling raped once by your husband and twice by society...oh and three times by the law because they said what he did wasn't a crime. ??!!