Well this is not my first post on this site. I loved it and the books about 8 years ago when I was working my tail off to save my marriage to my cheating spouse. It worked. I learned so much, about myself as well as about the truths of love.
Well here I am again, except this time to see if I can get any help with dealing with my daughters who seem to hate me at times for leaving their daddy.

So the story goes.........
I left my husband in feb. 2009. In the year and a half before that I did everything in my power to try and make it work. I communicated my feelings, I begged him to listen, I warned him I felt it coming. I knew my heart was being damaged. I knew I was losing my love for him. It just seemed like I could never make him happy. My ex is what I call a miserable person. Always laid in the bed. That drove me crazy. He was negative and lazy and selfish and mean. Had terrible mood swings. If he was in one of his moods he would go three days at a time without even speaking to me. For no reason at all. Sometimes there would be an argument, sometimes not. He fussed and complained about everything, even things he had complete control over and also things that had absolutly nothing to do with him. Just never had a positive word come out of his mouth. And he really just never manned up to what his role as a husband was. From something as simple as taking the trash out on trash day, to more important things like checking the oil in my car or cutting the grass. I just feel like certain things are the mans job, the same way cooking and cleaning and laundry and the domestic things r the womans job. I could go on and on about all the things that drove me away but I feel like u get the general idea.
I tried everything I knew to do to attempt to make him a happy person. I stopped nagging him about his faults, I became very active in my church trying to improve areas of my own self, I prayed for him and our marriage with the hopes that he would follow my example, although I never tried to force him to join us, I always gave an invitation. I lived my life as a wife that God wanted me to be. I became very submissive , which was quite the challenge. I made sure I met his physical needs in the bedroom fairly often, since that was one of his main complaints for me. I tried everything I could think of that i had control of that I thought would make him "snap out of it". So eventually, he had everything I had to offer to make him happy. Still didn't work. That's about the time that I began shutting down. I just lived my life as a mother to my children and just left him alone. To sleep. If he wasn't at work then he was home in the bed either playing on his laptop or sleeping. I felt it was better to just let him sleep than to wake hi
up and hear him curse and complain.
I eventually moved on to another stage in my
life. The "party" stage. I started going out and drinking and dancing and just haveing a great time with my friends. And I went out more and more, I was drinking more and more. I have never been a home drinker, I had to be in the "party" enviroment to enjoy it, but that soon changed. On any given night u could find me at my neighbors house getting totaly wasted in her kitchen. We didn't do anything wrong really, just talked and laughed alot and had great amounts of fun. But that wasn't me. Now I realize I was only trying to escape my reality. After that stage came depression. I was the one who could not get out of the bed. I gained weight, I started slacking so much at work that my hours were cut to part time. I cried all the time for no reason. I eventually quit my job because of a certain situation that occured. When I called him to discuss the issue, he told me that I had better walk out right then or he would come to my office and embarass the hell out of me. I believed him. I walked out. Regretted it immediatly but what's done is done. That was my rock bottom, I got even more depressed, so depressed that I could not even function normal as a human. After a strait week of sleeping, I decided that when my marriage began to affect my health, it was time to get out. I made the mental decision that I was going to leave and put plans in motion to do it. It took about 2 months to be able to move and during that time there were a few nites I spent with family members with him saying how sorry he was and begging me to come home and the promise that he would change. He never did. So I left. I don't like uncomfortable change for my kids, so I was lucky enough to rent a house on the same street we already lived on. He stayed at his house until he finally let all the utilities get cut off. Hence, he came to my new house. He was there for 1 week and I fell into depression again and could do nothing but sleep. Within that week, we had an argument that led to him punching a hole in the wall and getting very verbally abusive and almost physical , in front of our kids and also friends they had over from school. I had to get me and all the kids in my truck and out of there while he cursed and yelled and called me horrible names and chased me to my truck, hitting it and trying to stop me from leaving. All this still in front of my daughters school mates. That was all I could take. I made him leave in the next few days. That was the end for me.

I know that was alot of info, but I feel like the issues leading up to seperating are important. My problem now is that my daughters who are 9 & 10 1/2 have really been hurting me lately. The treat me so disrespectful with thier sarcastic mouths, and how they do not appreciate anything I do for them at all. They do not listen to me at all, it takes a spanking almost every time I tell them to do something. They get mad at me when I do not have the money to buy things they want and tell me how mean I am and that they hate me when I dicipline them. I have to stay up late many nights to clean after they have gone to bed, only for them to come home from school and destroy all my progress , then it's another fight to get them to pick up. No matter how many times I ask them to put shoes on the shoe rack, put dirty cloths in laundry basket, throw garbage in trash can, put toys / books in room they REFUSE to do it. I have to tell them every day and basically walk them thru the process over and over and over. I do not feel like that is just alot to ask. And not a hard thing to do. I will give credit where is due, my youngest will wash dishes wash and dry clothes and pick up alot more than her older sister, but will still kick her shoes off to land where ever , and drop her clothes where ever she takes em off. Makes just as big of a mess just more willing to help pick it up. She has a smart mouth also, tells me she hates me, she likes to tear things up when she gets mad. Recently ripped in half a pic we took at chuck e cheese new years day. That broke my heart. She does that kind of stuff alot. I was going thru her back pack the other nite and she had a drawing of her and her sister and their daddy. Then she colored 'daddy' on a few pages. I read a journal entry from her school journal and it was about something u do fun in the summer and she said "go with my family to hot springs " and she then said how she didn't go last year because her parents were fighting , but they have worked everything out now. I wonder if she lied cause that'd how she wants it or because she is embarrassed. Every time she comes home her daddys she tells me how much he says he loves us and wants to come home. She me he says he's sorry and he won't do it again. That he has changed. He is the type of person that u can look at and see the stress tension and sadness in his face. I know they can prolly feed off his negativity the same way I use to. Or still do anytime I'm around him. Really wish I knew how all this made them feel.

And anytime they have asked for something that I answered " tell ur daddy to get it for u" they tell me how he does not have any money cause he don't have a job. No, he does not pay me child support. Most of the time I even have to send food with them when they go. He is fairly worthless. I'm sorry. Truth hurts. Pisses me off so bad that they would never demand anything from him the way they do me and would not throw a huge fit in public when he said no. They don't back talk him the way they do me. And if I say one little thing about him they get very upset.

Dam this is long and my eyes hurt. To be continued

L2L, I am sorry i do not have any advice, but i though you could use this anyway.

I am sorry you are going through this. I am sure your children do not hate you and i am sure that their father makes them feel bad for him because of his own laziness.

It makes me sad for them.......

So sorry Lot's. I believe I do have some advice to offer. Similar sit's, two very challenging kids, one with special needs. One that mirrors daddy's explosive behavior. A stressed out mommy who is not getting support from unemployed H who left for OW after much abusive behavior. Suffered from both depression and "party my @** off syndrome. Kids that don't clean up after themselves in a house that is almost always a mess. Constant attacks by husband, verbally and otherwise. So, please understand I am VERY sympathetic and not at all judgmental when I offer my pearls of wisdom, as my situation (and more importantly, my kids happiness and behavior) is much improved.

First, the spanking needs to stop. Like, yesterday. I don't know if there is ever a "good age" to spank, but at your DD's ages, it is definitely too old.

Second, statements like "go tell your father to get it for you" is feeding their resentment, and fear. Yes, they are afraid, They know that you are the only one who can control their destiny, not their father, and they are turning to you accordingly. Even if it is done in hurtful ways, they are showing you their vulnerabilities. You must understand that their world is in chaos and they are scared, and respond accordingly. Please try not to respond to the tone in which they communicate their fears, but instead to the fear itself. Setting them up to face the disaster that their father is, time and time again, won't help them. And it won't bring them any closer to you.

Third, I know kids SHOULD be helping around the house. Being a single parent is ridiculously tough. But I see a real pattern of deed-oriented demands from you in your approach to discipline and it may also be how you are defining love. Deeds are not love and these kids may be suffering from depression, much like your husband did. If you mirror the relationship you had with your husband, you may get similar results with your kids. Of course, ask your kids to help, then let it go if they don't, (barring a consequence that does not involve yelling or hurting).

That's for the criticism part, sorry if it seems harsh. But for the advice, here goes:

1. Never say another negative word about their father, or begin a sentence with "Tell your father..." Keep them out of it, but be there to listen when they want to talk, offer truthful explanations when they need one without putting him down excessively, etc. Putting them in the middle is hurting them.

2. Offer real, non-confrontational consequences for not helping around the house. If they don't help, apply the consequence, then let it go. Pick up when you can, leave it when you can't. Don't even worry that the consequences are not working at first. You don't need to keep piling on the criticism. Just make sure you hit them with a consequence that means something to them. Find their currency, as Dr. Phil puts it, then take it away.

3. Your family and you need counseling.

4. Respond with every "I hate you!" with "Well I love you no matter what."

5. Hugs, hugs hugs. For the next few weeks, just love them and forget about changing them. Take a break from that for a little while. You can always get back to behavior modification later. For now, these kids are hurting and need the love of their mother more than anything else.

I did all of the above with great results. I have happy kids who know their mother will ALWAYS love and care for them more than anything else. I know you need help too and I feel for you. But you will feel good about yourself if you see happy kids who love their mother.

Some ideas for the leaving stuff around the house:

1) Pick up the stuff and put it away in a garbage bag or something...hide it. They can earn the items back.

2) Do they get an allowance? What I have been doing is everytime you don't do something I ask the first time then I take a $1 away from your allowance.

3) Take a way phone, phone time, computer time, tv time if they don't do what is asked.

Realize they are not acting out against YOU but the situation. You are safe. They know you will love them. So they can act out against you in safety.

Hi L2L, I don't have any further advice than what's been provided above, but I really do feel for you.

Sometimes it feels like doing the right thing isn't rewarded, but over time things will get better!

Thanks for the eyes/ears and advice. I would love to respond but I will have to come back later. Just too busy right now. But wanted to say thanks.

AH! Something I can comment on. Ore teen girls are a very, very unusual animal. (7th grade is the "stinko" grade!).

They feel not in control, they can not control dad, so, by elimination, they are trying to gain control via YOU.
Seriously, they have not developed the "frontal lobe"- that is where compashion/reason and adult though generates from.

I believe that all child behavior is simply mimickin.sp? behavior they are told to, see with their families and see on TV. It is not until you are a young adult (with a hopefully healthy frontal lobe) that you can truely process your ethics about behaviors. At that point your descisions are based on your values.

This is why young/immature kids can be so mean (re: emotionslly tourture others; they have no reality "scale" of their actions to other people. Forgive them, they are not aware of how much pain they are inflicting. really - take my advice on that one.

That being said. Abuse is abuse and these young ladies HAVE to understand how their actions are effecting you.

It is a vital part of their growing up, and it is a painful step, but one that you must guide them through (saying dad is a dud). Someone needs to guide them. Mom, again it looks like this is going to fall on you. <sigh>

It path is NOT going to come from punishments. Forget that. If punishment works, we would have no behavior issues in school after September, right? HA!

Is there a youth counselor, or therapist at your church that you can turn to? Talk to the school counselor, do NOT elaborate all your problems, but cribnote it. Maybe they can help you step in the right direction.

Oh, and a beginning step is about the money. All kids think money shoots out of an ATM and you can get more by visiting one.

DO.NOT.DUMP.YOUR financial problems on your kids. They can not do anything to improve the situation, and it only adds to their anxiety and sense of loss of control. Especially since ALL THEIR friends have "Ed Hardy" they do not want "Toughskins".

They are old enough to have an allowance, do you have enough coming in to facilitate a reasonable allowance? Or is everything phhhhhht?

This is where BOUNDRIES can start for you.

EXCELLENT. Except the behavior Mod stuff. To 1980's

I re read. I repeat. These young ladies have lost whatever sense of "control" they had.

They sound like they are using "any means necessary" to get some control over something. If this gets turned inward, it can be manifested in an eating disorder. Weird, I know. P.S. I am not predicting this for you, I am trying to give an example of EXTREME control issues.

I hope that makes sense.

Think of how terrifying (no control over your life) would be. Now add 1,000 yucky hormones.

They have seen you go through a "party" stage, and dad go through --"whatever he calls it". They filter what they observe, so rebellion and poor choices ARE the norm, maybe?

I mean this with love. I love kids.

Quick reply about the money issue.... But one thing these kids have ever done is gone without something they needed, and rarely go without things they want. I do know how it feels to not have what the other kids have , so I do my best to do what is in my power to get them what they want. Now it may not be at the very moment that they want it, but I work it out. Somehow , someway. May have to wait til moms next check, but they r well taken care of in that area. And I do not mind at all. What I do mind is the attitude I get when it's not "on demand" or right when they want it. Or when I spend money on clothes that yes I make her try on at the store and then she wears once , but now they don't "feel right". Or the $30 yearbook that was left outside and ruined by the rain. Or the DVD / cd she had to have that has grown legs and vanished. Guess I'm referring to my oldest because the youngest takes much better care of her stuff. I just guess I do not know how to teach her in the right way how to value the things she is given. Maybe she is spoiled. I'm here for advice, not because I already know!!!

Yes they have seen many poor choices as well as good choices I have made. I do not only make bad choices. I am human and capable of mistakes and am sure I will make plenty more in the future. Just like any other human. And any other child. But that does not mean that I can't try to work on my faults and my future. And it does not mean that because I have made mistakes that it's ok to walk on me.

My first question would be, why r they too old to spank? Not saying u r wrong, only saying I do not understand. If they r playing at bedtime and I warn them several times to go to sleep and they don't , I pop em on the bottom once and they stop and go to sleep. And as far as cleaning goes, I don't demand they clean the house, I basically want them to pick up after themselves. I do not feel as I should be a slave and allow them to make messes and never have to clean it up. I feel like they r old enough to do so. As far as negative talk about there dad, I'm sure u r correct. I will not do that anymore. They do already know how things are and I am wrong for reminding them. I need to just be there when they need me. And I will give more hugs and more positive attention. I only want them to grow up happy and healthy and am sure I have many changes to make in myself. Thanks bunches for listening. Reading???

You know, some kids are just hard on themselves, but having to earn their own money to spend on "niceties" goes a long way toward encouraging responsibility. Of course, she might just be like my friend, who was hard on things and didn't have a problem replacing them. It's just money, he would say. But I know I was always conscientious about taking care of things because of how hard I had to work to obtain them. And because my family was broke, so replacements for broken items waited for Christmas/Birthday (if ever!)

Another example is a roommate I had in college: I had to pay my own bills, but she would constantly run up her parents credit card. One night she was convincing me to go out and she said it would be her treat. She had told me a few days prior that her parents card was 7K and they were complaining about her spending, so I asked her "are you sure you want to put this on your card when they're struggling?" Her response was "Oh, they'll find a way to pay it off- they always do."

Since the girls are too young for a job, this is a great time to introduce an allowance (was suggested by others). You can provide for their necessities, and give them control (ownership) of their discretionary purchases. I know there's a lot of debate over whether it's better to tie allowance to chores performed versus giving a standard amount as a member of the family (or doing both- a set amount that can be added to with special chores). I'm not qualified to tell you how best to do it but whatever path you choose will probably help both you AND them in the long run.

What do you think?

That's right! My son toddler is already learning to clean up after his messes. Of course, it's easier when they're young and still think cleaning is "fun."

Forgive me, I don't know how to reference a quote. This is from the 5/20, 12:46 post.

Spanking, whether it works or not to begin with, and at what age is appropriate, it a matter long debated by people much smarter than me. Having a child with special needs has put me in front of a lot of child psychologists and other specialist. Most didn't support spanking at all, some actually did (under very specific and rare circumstances), but told me it needed to be "capped" by age 4. I was told that the "loose" rule of thumb was that you don't want the kids having too many memories of being spanked as a child when they grow up. Anyway, you just may want to reconsider the issue and opt for something that works better.

I am starting a little late with the cleaning up, and it has been up hill battle. My kids are younger, and while the 7 year old is now very helpful, the 5 year old not so much. I don't have great amswers regarding getting them to help out, clearly not my area of expertise. But despite being in the middle of what I consider the WORST divorce and custody battle ever, these are truly happy kids. It's actually kind of amazing. And gratifying. At least I'm doing something right.

Anyway, good luck with all. I hope your husband gets a clue and you get some cooperation soon.

Awesome!

Happy yes, well behaved I am still working on. Getting better though. Especially once happy was achieved.

If I could get to Happy myself I'm sure it would all be better still!