No monday is not fast enough.

I will buy from a store, no worries.

My flight leaves on Monday, and fedex has a history of showing up around 4-5pm, long after I will be gone.

Thanks though, good night!!

"The only problem I have with OM is that W chooses to spend time with him and NOT me. If it was with US (me and OM and our son) as a family with OM tagging along, and then other time with me or me and our son, alone, than I dont think I would have a problem."

You think the OM is banging your WW but you can say this?

That's because you are, albiet unintentionally, being dishonest with yourself.

Do you really think she's walking in a meadow or on the beach?!?!

Well, MaiMai... yes I do think that is really what she is doing.

and TR, I dont think he is banging my W, so I can say that.

She was starting to get emotionally distant before we moved in Nov 09, and I can recognize that now in hindsight. After the move, before meeting OM, she had already begun to be short with me, avoiding touching and all that. I thought she was just upset with the move and that it would work itself out when we settled in and started counseling and talking and stuff.

OM wasnt a friend till about the last month we were there, so February.

I am not saying there is no chance, and I am not trying to disregard advice.

Many of you say "definately PA," so I am getting VARs to snoop while I am gone. I got the phone stuff. Hopefully the VAR will show if its deep EA, PA, or whatever and I can adjust from there. I guess its not ALL neat that OM is technologically impaired because it reduces a lot of the evidence that might be just lying around.

I need some evidence because I am just not convinced.

BT,

I am not trying to throw it at you to be mean. I want you to be mentally prepared though. Also, if it has gone PA it makes it much more difficult to extricate her from the affair.

Did i hear you right? You and the OM are in the Marine Corps? The cell evidence alone is enough to go talk to your CofC and get this OM away from your wife. Does he outrank you? You could stir this up so he will never want to speak to your WW again. Then, you might have a chance to save your marriage.

I am in the Navy, and you know what the military thinks about a higher ranking enlisted or officer fraternizing with a junior's wife. You could end his career.

SWW

Oh no no, SWW, I certainly dont think you are being mean. Didnt mean to convey that.

I feel I am mentally prepared if it IS a PA. I also know a PA would be a lot more drawn out, but I feel also that a lot of other things would be easier if its a PA.

PA is PA, everyone knows and thinks its bad. EA is kinda gray. MB is quite clear, but other people (friends and family, IDK, THE JUDGE) might not agree or whatever. If it was a PA, would be simpler in some ways, but more work. IDK. I dont want it to be a PA obviously.

No, neither of us is USMC. We are both civilian employees for a USMC school.

I was a Navy HM until Feb 2010, hoo ya navy, and yeah... seen plenter of E w/e + Officer frat problems. Sad the things that happen...

Dont stop SWW. Even if you think I am retarded and stupid or whatever, I DO listen to you and everyone else. I DO appreciate all your input.

Every person has valuable experience and I appreciate them sharing it.

Today has been great so far...

will post later maybe.

We have cleaning and movie to watch together after little man is down for the night...

trying so hard to keep it light and non-R fight stuff.

need lots of happy thoughts =D

BT, I would then hire a PI to track down his wife. I have not tried this one, but here it is: http://www.cheatingspousepi.com/

Or PrincessMeggy suggested using publicdata.com


I tried to find this quote but could only see it in TheRoad's post. You surely did not say this, did you? I almost fainted when I saw this quote and just want to make sure you really said it before I allow my blood pressure goes to stroke levels and i burst a gasket. Please tell me you did not say this.

IDK Mel.

I did say that.

I am saying OM, assuming no PA or anything, is a decent guy. I put myself in his shoes and cant say what I would do different or see wrong with it. Assuming no PA of course.

Please go ahead and go stroke levels and let me have it if you disagree with this...

Get your meds ready, Mel. It was about halfway through BT's last post on page 9. The whole post dropped my jaw. We can only pray that the VAR brings out something that will convince him.

God's Blessings,

Say

I hate this part....Your wife is banging OM...No doubt.

Sorry.

Is your wife having an affair or not? If she is not having an affair then what are you doing here on SAA? If she is, then you are MESSED UP to suggest that her OTHER MAN, the enemy of your marriage and your child's family, ACCOMPANY you on an outing.

If he is having an affair with your wife, he is NOT a "decent guy." That is ludicrous.

That is SICK. And I am scared you are walking about FREE with such a destructive, lackadaisical attitude about INFIDELITY. You do not have the luxury of wacky moral retardation when you have CHILDREN, SIR. You have a moral OBLIGATION to protect your marriage and your children.

If this is your attitude then I view YOU as a greater threat to your marriage and your child than the affair. Defining deviancy down will avail you exactly nothing.

I am confused. Is she having an affair or not? The PA part is irrelevant. AN AFFAIR IS AN AFFAIR.

Is this an affair or not?

I say, yes. OM claims to be divorcing. He is living apart from his W. (different states) BT has hundreds of hours of logged phone calls between them. His W leaves him with his son for hours in the evenings while she takes drives and walks on the beach "alone." She has emotionally distanced herself fom BT.


If it walks like a duck....


God's Blessings,

Say

W distanced herself prior to this OM. Then they became friends.

Thank you Mel, and please, continue and respond. I may be way off.

I dont think there is a PA at all. I dont think there is an EA beyond friends. MB says no opposite sex friends outside the marraige.

To my wife, she was "outside the marraige" about 4-6 months ago. She has told me she felt "done," back then. The fact that she continued to move to NC from Maine with me, picked a house, signed papers with me, and THEN told me "Oh, I am not staying by the way" points to maybe she wasnt "done" for sure. I think that having OM as someone to have a not UNhappy conversation with highlighted all the bad ones we had been having and helped her see that she didnt want our marraige anymore.

That said, I DONT think its ok for her to think "Oh, I am emotionally done, so I dont have to try anymore," and I dont want our son to learn that. She didnt have a limit to her marraige vows beyond infidelity (the traditional vows), so quitting for any other reason is breaking an oath.

That said, I dont want our old marraige anymore. It was flawed. She gave and gave and never asked for anything, I recieved and recieved and never wondered at her not asking for anything. Thats dependancy. I dont want that. IF we can pull through this, we will have to build a whole new relationship. I am totally willing to do this. "I do" meant just that to me.

We dated/knew each other for 2 months before we got married.
A 9 month deployment in there, and our flawed relationship, and she sees this mountain of LB habits built up where it seems impossible to "save" our marraige. That said, I still said, "I do," so I am not done.

I dont think she is cheating in a PA, and the time spent talking with OM is due to their not being anyone else available for her to talk to, that she is willing to talk to (ie-not me).

I hope the VAR's can clear some of this up. If theres a PA, then I go from there.



Tonight - watched Where the Wild Things Are. Talked for about 1.5 hours. She brought it to relationship and I failed to stop it. I dont think I said anything too bad. I mostly listened, asked a lot of questions. Only thing possibly bad was she asked me why I think she is leaving. I told her:

1) You see this huge pile of things on top of our marraige, all the hurt, neglect, etc, and you feel that even if we can get rid of it all, you arent sure the marraige we had was even viable from the start.
2) You dont trust me not to fall back to the way things were.

First, she got mad and said "I didnt hear you say I once, like you didnt do anything wrong, like you think this is all my fault."

I said, what do you disagree with about my answer besides not saying I?
"Well, IDK, I didnt really hear it, I was listening for I"
I restated each, and we talked, and I explained that the mound of garbage was from both of us, I am not denying that or the fact that I broke trust.
So she said, "well, I guess thats about it. The biggest reason though is because you ignored me, you ignored us, and our sons. Maybe you arent doing it now, but I dont trust you not to fall back to it."

So basically, I failed at relationship talk, but we werent arguing. It wasnt a LB conversation with AO's DJs and SDs, rather an honest exchange of thoughts and feelings. So I dont know if its all bad.

We both dont really like our current MC. Maybe she would be willing to try SH if this guy doesnt work out?

She said again she is only doing counseling so she can say she did it, and to try to get us to a point where she can be friends with me.
I asked if she agrees that to be friends, we have to heal this hate, distrust, and resentment.
She said yes, and agreed that MC would have to get us to the "freind" point on the way to "married," so MC still makes sense for accomplishing her ultimate goal of just being friends.

Heard OMs wifes name, unsure of spelling, havent looked it up yet to see if I can find her. Its on the list of things either this weekend, or during the week I am gone.

so if this is not an EA then what is the problem? If they are just "friends" then invite him over to your house tomorrow and you can all be "friends." Can you invite him over for dinner tommorrow?

He has been over for dinner. He watches our son sometimes for us, borrows us his truck, I lived with the guy too. He is a friend. I refer to him as OM so that people know who I am talking about.

I am on this forum because it was said "its an EA, go to SAA." Others have tried to convince me its a PA or EA. I am not sure, but I am on SAA because THESE guys would most likely recognize it for what it was. With that said, I dont think its a PA, but I will heed the advice to snoop more. SAA has helped me already.

She fulfills her need for Conversation with OM. She says she was "done" with me about 4 months ago, and the conversation definately died off back then. That is also before the friendship with OM really started.

To her its not even close to an EA since she wasnt emotionally connected to me before she even started talking to him.

I DO recognize that for us to rebuild our marraige she will need to talk to ME. Right now, she doesnt want to rebuild.

Maybe I am doing this wrong, Mel.

I am thinking about the "Man up" post.

I cant tell her what to do. I dont feel like I can say "You are not allowed to talk to OM anymore," not because I fear her wrath, but because she has removed herself. To her the marraige was over before OM was even around.

Do I have this wrong?

I dont even feel like I could say "Your EA with OM is destroying our marraige," since it was pretty much gone prior to OM. I could definately say "Your contact with OM is hindering any chance of recovering our marraige," but she doesnt want to recover it, so therefore there is no problem to her.

BT, this probably is an EA, and more likely a PA. I would focus on getting the goods and then taking steps to expose it. But first, you need to focus on getting the goods.

Can you have her followed by a PI when she leaves for her "walks?' What can you do to do to get the goods? Is the OM free to come to your house during the day?


Then why is she there? Has she filed for divorce?

I am leaving for a week on Mon. I will have VAR in the house to possibly catch her doing something.

She has not filed for divorce.

She is looking for a job, wants to get that, save up a bit, then get a place, get all set up, then file.

She has threatened to "leave now" a couple of times over this or that, but it hasnt amounted to much. Though last night she said if I invade her privacy like with the phone minutes she would leave right then. Whether she leaves now or later ir really not a big deal, so I dont want to "drive her out," but I am not going to stop working on myself and our marraige.