** Hello, new here **

Husband and I are separated (D on hold) and he currently has a place 1/4 mile from the house. We have a designated visitation schedule for the kids to be with him, however, it is stated as "flexible" on our legal paperwork.

WH is on-board for committing to the marriage, doesnt/didnt want D, is willing to use the MB tools to help us repair the marriage/survive the affair, we've shared our worksheets, he initiated NC with OW (only 2 weeks ago with a "goodbye date") and claims he's had NC since.

My dilemma is this...

I want to take baby steps with getting back to it. He seems willing to do the work, but seems impatient with wanting to have his top needs fulfilled (Affection, SF, RC). So far, we are making an effort to have regular email/texts/phone calls to share affection and conversation and just getting to know each other/connect again. BUT (yes, big but), I am very concerned about jumping in too fast with filling up his LB just yet.

The affair was very, very selfish. He admits to that and he is remorseful. However, the A was (he says) a deeply felt (ILYs) affair and very sexual. OW has moved back in with her husband (the day after the "goodbye date"), and he believes they will eventually divorce. Judging by stuff he's told me and the things I have seen her write to him, she appears to have had a really hard time letting go when they "break up" and I view her as a very big threat - waiting in the wings. And, he can't seem to say "no" to her! He says he misses me (wants to snuggle, etc), but I have a really tough time wanting to go there; still haunted by the nudey pics she's sent him (and I have seen), the knowledge of what they did, the imaginings of what I don't know, and he's not saying much (trying to protect me from all of the hurtful truths). I'm still feeling very, very angry, hurt, devastated, rejected, mistrustful...despite his renewed commitment and saying nice things to me. I need time. I need to go slow. I have some personal goals I wish to tend to and I want us to come at our relationship as new people, with a new kind of love, and not fall into the ruts we were in prior to the affair. I also feel he needs to go through the withdrawal before we start doing the 15hrs/romantic need filling stuff.

Any suggestions?

If he is demanding that his EN's be met, he is still wayward and doesn't get the pain he has inflicted on you. Still blaming you for part of his reason for having the affair? How can you move together from that place?

The same drill here, have you exposed to everyone the affair, have you demanded NC for life, have you a plan for recovery that involves setting very discrete and concrete demands for openess and honesty and accountability?

No half steps here. I think or you are right, she is not the only threat, he is too.

SWW

This is what I would do:

1. Make sure that he hasn't or she hasn't contacted him by checking emails, phone bills, text messages, etc.
2. Go to MC
3. Do this on YOUR time not HIS!
4. I would want to know ALL the details of there A, Ask questions TUNS of questions that you need to know about the A.

That is a good starting point.

Is he an alcoholic?

And does the OW's H know all about the affair? Does everyone know about the affair? Do they EVER see each other? Do you live close by?


This is a lie. He only wants to protect himself. It is not "protective" to lie to you. He is the LAST person qualified to decide what is in your best interest.

Thanks for the reply!

Without knowing about the MB policy of letting everyone know about the A. I did a decent job with getting the word out to everyone I knew. It caused him to hide away, isolate himself, with only her to turn to with his woes, unfortunately.

Yes, the OW's H is aware of the affair. For a time he was giving my husband the brunt of his rage. And, yes, they do live close by. And. yes, he has an alcohol problem, which got even worse with the affair. The whole thing started as a drunken one-night-stand. The oxytocin haze that they created, apparently made her/him, both, fall in love and couldnt stay away from each other. Shheesh. She's basically the fun, "game girl", drinking buddy...the things I'm not.

Anyway...

He seems determined to follow the NC for life rule (says he is), but I'm not able to fully trust it based on how the affair has gone on/off so much -- the addiction an all.

He's in a very guilt-ridden and remorseful state right now; guilty about me, guilty about her and her situation. He says he feels worthless and overwhelmed -- sees himself as a failure. He worries I will never forgive him; worries he won't be able to forgive himself. Lots of tears when we talk. I am reassuring him that I think he has it in him to get past it, but he's struggling with finding the strength to do it. I'm showing caring, concern, and willingness to be there for him -- but I'm guarded a bit, AND, we are (and will be) still living apart. I am very concerned about being taken advantage of by his neediness. That's part of the M issues we had -- him feeling inadequate, me being the dedicated, giving, dependent (yet, neglected spouse), always feeding his needs and not getting mine fulfilled.

I know it's written about as giver/taker, but the affair has caused my taker to come out in full force! I can't help but ask why/how I could have allowed myself to have been misguided with my devotion and dedication all these years...and to get THIS in return for it!?

I worry a great deal about the OW's wacky, over-the-top, attachment to him and his weakness when it comes to addictions and lack of control/impulsiveness. I don't like the idea of forcing myself into doing things out of fear that he'll give up on me and fall back to her (the highest bidder), because of SF weaknesses, etc. I'd just lose my self-respect by doing that. And, I can't get the cringing affects of the affair out of head right now!!

REPLY to snooping suggestion:

I had a keylogger for a time, but he moved out and we currently have an injunction that keeps me from entering his condo without him being there. Also, the stuff I was seeing was really more than I needed to know -- too painful. I wanted to know, but didn't want to know.

I wanted to put a spy-logger on his Blackberry (they texted and emailed a lot) and was really close to doing it, but it's a corporate issued/owned phone and I would have gotten into big trouble doing it.

My next step, as an added assurance, might be to put a GPS route tracker in his car. I'm really nervous about doing that, now that he's trying to stay "clean and sober", but I think I might go ahead with it if I start becoming suspicious.

It will hurt SO much if I find out he's still seeing her and lying to me again, though. Grr.

Good advice, SWW. As I mentioned, he says he's on-board for the radical honesty and NC. But, he's been discovered in so many blatant lies in the past few months (and I fell for them as sincere truths), that I am having a tough time trusting what he says to me or says he does/did.

If he has a drinking problem, then that has to be addressed before you can even hope to recover your marriage. His affair started while drunk and unless he stops drinking, he will be dangerous to you and vulnerable to a relapse. Alcoholics have lots of affairs.


I wouldn't trust his word one bit. His words are meaningless.


One would think from reading this that *HE* is the victim. How interesting that he feels sorry for HIMSELF while his victim lies bleeding on the floor?

I think he is crying because for no other reason than he lost his lover. He most certainly is not remorseful if he is more worried that he will get some undeserved and unearned forgiveness than he is about doing the things to EARN your forgiveness.

I would tell him that you will give him an OPPORTUNITY to EARN your forgiveness, but it is not welfare giveaway for entitled waywards. You desperately need to need what Dr Harley says about "forgiveness," Daisy. Cant We Forgive and Forget?

]

No, hon, that is not your "taker." That is your emotions saying DANGER WILL ROBINSON!! Protecting yourself from your abusive, self centered, UNREMORSEFUL husband is not being TAKER, it is the sane response.


I don't think your h is done with this affair at all. He is just in remission. You are right to drag your feet. I would ask him to stop drinking - enter AA - and to take some time to demonstrate his changes to you.

Daisy, do you think you have a good bullcrap detector? How would you judge your abilities in that regard?

Time to move far away from OW.

Thank you Melody! All SUPER great advice and validations. Just what I needed.

Yes, the AA-thing has been suggested. He KNOWS he has a drinking problem --- admits it -- has had public intox, DWI. He knows it's the source of many of our issues (my resentment, the distancing, the drift). He feels like a failure that he can't get himself straightened out and or fix all of the damage he's caused because of it. He will (and is right now) stay away from drinking and be "good", but it only lasts a few months when he does. You'd think this would be the last straw. It's like he just keeps digging his hole. He isn't/hasn't been willing to make the big leap and just be done with it.

Being separated (Plan B) and staying away for him to "get right" and work on some solid goals is good. Giving him the opportunity, as you say, YES, that's exactly what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to keep my distance as much as I can, without going NC with him (and still be encouraging). But, he seems to be trying to go too fast with things, as I said.

So, it's sort of like walking on quicksand....it looks stable, but I know it isn't.

Bullcrap detector -- LOL!

Well, I thought mine was pretty good, until recently. I discovered just how good he's gotten at fooling/tricking me

The reason ML asked you about the alcohol is because MB will not work on an active alcoholic. That needs to be taken care of FIRST.

Definitely make it a condition of yours that he start some sort of alcohol program ASAP. I'm confused about what you are willing and not willing to do, honestly. Maybe if would be helpful for you to write down how involved you want to be in his life and in working on reconciliation.

I know, and do, most of the stuff everyone has suggested so far. I guess, my basic question(s) now boil down to:

- Do I give in to being more pleasant, giving some EN, dating/spending more time together, more affections and just hope/pray he stays away from her and on track?

or

- Do I keep the boundaries more firm until I get more from him -- more assurances -- (with time) that all is "safe" and he's on the right track with the drinking, etc?

I have told him I am very willing to be by his side if/when he chooses to take the big leap with AA. The affair stuff compounds things with my reluctance to be too supportive, though.

I'm willing to bide my time and wait. Like I said, I really want to make this an opportunity for me, too.

His drinking problem and the subsequent destructive behavior will get worse, not better. He does not have the ability to recover your marriage, or even love you, as long as he is addicted to alcohol. Just stopping drinking for periods of time will get him nowhere. [as you have discovered]

In order to recover, he has to go to AA and change his life dramatically. If he doesn't, he will just continue drinking. And alcoholics don't get better or stay the same; THEY ALWAYS GET WORSE.

Daisy, alcholics do not have the ability to use and they view family members as opportunities to exploit. He only wants you to be around to USE because his affair fell through.

This is clear to me in the way he approaches you. You are his rape victim and he is more worried about his "guilt" for raping you than he is in rendering aid. That is the MO of an alcholic who is feigning emotions to GET something out of you.

I say this as a recovering alcoholic with 25 years of sobriety. I know exactly how we think.

Make it a condition that he sober up and go to AA. If not, you are facing a life of sheer hell. If you think it is bad now, you have seen nothing yet. We always get WORSE, never better.

OK -- you answered my Q's, above. Get him to work on being clean and sober, and THEN, work on the affair and the marriage.

Ugh! Still, I hate the idea that he'll fall back with her, being that she's so accepting of it and is a willing partner in his "fun", selfish needs satisfying life. Grr! I have so many choice words to mutter, anymore. I really do! Yet, I love the guy. Grr!

You are doing so well at the personal recovery part. Good for you. Stick to your requirement for him to get his alcoholism taken care of.

Thank you! I'm very appreciative of the feedback. I DO feel exploited, that nails it. The moving too fast has my alarm bells going off, for sure!

I'll stay steady with the arms reach, but no further, limitations and work on encouraging him to get sober! Goal #1, numero-uno! We have MC coming up.

I doubt I will post much, as time will tell, but I will make sure to keep everyone posted on how things are going.

Thanks, again!

Daisy, I would go to him and present it to him like this:

I have looked into this and have discovered that our marriage cannot even begin to recover until you get help for your drinking and enter a program of recovery. I know I am not safe with you until that happens.

I am willing to give you an opportunity to reconcile our marriage IN THE FUTURE if you recover from your drinking problem and end all contact with your OW for life. Once that is under way [several months of demonstrated sobriety, staying away from bars, parties, and regular attendence in AA] engage in a program of recovery for our marriage.

That is what it will take to interest me in reconciliation.

Make him that offer, Daisy. He can take it or leave it, but this way, you will be safe from him. He is a dangerous man that will bring you down to hell if you let him.

If he doesnt take it or if he doesn't follow through, I would go into a very dark Plan B [absolutely no contact with him] and tell him not to contact you until he does those things. If he doesn't do it within 2 years, you should are better off getting a divorce.

The bottom line is that you are wasting your time until he changes his life and stops his drinking. He will drag you down into hell with him if you don't protect yourself.