Vibrissa, I do know lines where crossed, but those are not my words either. Nothing on text or the computer was private, I didn't know about the keylogger until I was told, and she said she didn't have proof because there was nothing else, and what you've seen was very distorted or fabricated. A lot of what was actually said was inappropriate joking around about her and her girlfriend. She was supportive, and a friend to both of us.

Not to defend, just to put it in the right context. Sense then we have talked thoroughly and completely, I haven't had contact with that girl, and I'm sorry for what actually transpired and how it effected Margie. I am open an honest, and I have not gotten the full truth about many situations, I feel.

I honestly, took her marraige for how it was put to me, which seemed like a sham for the paperwork (unfortunately that is common place in the military because of benefits etc). She was also legally separated before I ever met her. I don't know what that means to people here, probably not much, but I take the institution and personal commitment of marraige with the utmost seriousness, no matter how other people interpret a small percentage of my situation.

The coaching is expensive. I'd like to be able to use it, but might have to go back to my free services at the VA instead. Being a student does not pay well.

MaiMai, if you have a solution let me in on it.

After reading comments and my comment to them, I just wanted to clarify something. I was not trying to paint an overall picture of my marraige with me as innocent, I have a lot of problems. I just wanted to let people understand where I was emotionally to maybe get some guidance through the people here and their experiences. I do read, reread, and process what people say.

Thanks

BH 26
WW 31

Andrew,

Can you shed a little light on your age difference and how you ended up with MG? I know 5 years isn't a lot, but at your age and when you met it kinda is a good sized %.

Do you think in retrospect that there was some incidiousness about her wanting to be married to you?

SWW

MaiMai, in my opinion, it takes a lot for people to come here, open up, and lay their most personal lives on the line. You should know that. Comments like this are more destructive than helpful, and this forum is here for people to get help.

Andrew, joking or not, those texts were crossing a line. Unless you are saying they are all lies?

Now, I KNOW how hard it is to keep trying when you feel you have been betrayed. If you are honestly willing to try, you guys can make this work. How do you feel about trying out a session with the Harleys?

Also - just saw your wife's thread. Andrew, PLEASE if you want to make your marriage work, stop telling her when she's doing something wrong. Give her a chance to try. Don't Love Bust by telling her that her Plan A sucks.

Keep posting - even if you can't afford the Harleys there is lots of good advice on here, to build and HAPPY AND HEALTHY marriage.

I always wanted to get married and have children. Dating was strange with me... I would not date someone I couldn't see myself marrying, and if I had very different morals than a person I would lose interest rapidly, I even turned down dating a few women who said they did not want to have children at any point. In 2003 when I was getting ready to deploy a fiance left me because of her own insecurities and fear involved with deployment and long term physical separation. After I got back I was a little bit emotionally ruined, and for the first time in my life, lived promiscuously for a few months, which I absolutely hated and called to a halt.

Margie transferred into my unit but we slowly became friends. I ended up babysitting for her, as a single parent, so she could get out of the house. As we hung out more we got along wonderfully and I started going there for dinner and then to hang out routinely (I was in school after work and by the time I got out of class the chow-hall was closed). As we became closer we let our guards down and ended up having drunken sex one night. From their she expected me to back off but I suddenly saw things as less friendly and more romantic.

I moved in probably 4 months later and we married about 10 months after first becoming romantic. Retrospectively I recognized that she seemed so cool to hang out with because her insecurities led her to act like she liked everything I did: movies, music, going out, the same kind of people, clothing, sexuality etc. A lot of that slowly changed and I learned who she really was slowly after being married.

I don't think it was insidious, but misdirected, how she let herself be seen by me. I said the ILY first, spoke of co-parenting first, and proposed without her ever mentioning marraige. I don't have much to say about age, we were of relatively equal rank and got along well, I don't think we share a generational gap or anything. Thinking back, I often dated women older than me because of the difference in maturity.

Thank you for the help and input.

I quit, bye

** I am yet to see a marriage saved by the application of more sarcasm or spite. Please post respectfully or not at all. I am watching carefully. **

Andrew I hope you're still around.

I'm going to copy this from a post I wrote to your wife:


Along with that, please, if you really are done with this marriage, divorce and DO NOT get married again. If you do so, you will wind up right where you are now again.

Proper food is expensive. I might have to go back to eating rat poison instead.

ALL OF THEM. Read the entire Basic Concepts section, then the entire Q&A columns section, and then the entire Articles section. You are going to have to do some serious, major research.

After reading all of those sections, I would encourage you to buy Surviving an Affair; Fall in Love, Stay in Love; His Needs, Her Needs; and Love Busters and read all of those. Then I would encourage you to KEEP going and read the rest of Dr. Harley's books: His Needs, Her Needs For Parents; Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders; I Promise You; etc.

Because you said "she left me because of her insecurities and fear" instead of "she left me because me being physically gone from her so long was a deal-breaker," I'm thinking you feel like that was kind of unreasonable on her part?

No need to revisit the past relationship in any detail, but as you can see from the site, judgments of your partner's opinions is a major love buster. If you're not the kind of person who tends to tends to be open to being persuaded by other points of view and accepting of people whose priorities differ from yours, that can cause you to make judgments which can really wreak havoc on a marriage.

Andrew, are you still around?

Another affairage for the books.

Poor kids.

Mai Mai,

I don't know who you are, but you are not being helpful to this poster.


Miss M

For the sorry excuses:

If I missed reading any article on the site it was because I followed all the links to what I wanted to read next and didn't go down the list.

I did examine marriage thoroughly on several occasions. I did write things out and looked through some of our old books at what I had written before.

I have not lied on the board, I do not lie to my wife, I'm known by my friends for my honesty and integrity. Your assumptions are your own, but I certainly got tired of hearing them.

I might use the coaching, but I'm not using this board. Her own psychiatric conditions I have lived with forever were magnified on this board and she knows it too. To try to manipulate people to see her as a victim for attention has been what I lived with for 6 years, I just can't believe I ask questions and instead of answers I get back people talking about our situation like they know... how unhelpful. Her saying I said that garbage to a girl on a forum where I was trying to fix my marriage was equal to when she lied to her mom about me beating on her and the kids.

What the hell does someone have to say to you guys for you to realize that the nice, good guy needs help with a woman who cannot deal with life in general because of declining mental status? Honestly I expected someone to ask about all the anti-depressant, anti-psychotics, anti-anxiety and so forth and tell me that theres something wrong with the combination sense it's been getting worse and worse.

I had to vent about this, mods can delete it or whatever, I don't care. In retrospect it seems MaiMai at least cared, while everyone else tried to entertain themselves looking at my train wreck. Coming onto this forum was just an exercise in futility.

Andrew

Andrew,

I haven't posted to you and honestly can't recall if I ever posted to your wife. I keep trying to figure out what the real conflict is between you and those posting to you. I suspect that one or two folks might have a basic problem as much related to group dynamics as it is to much of anything else.

All of that out of the way, I am going to ask you a question, that once answered, will suggest whether I need to be encouraging you to fight for your marriage or supporting you as it comes to an end. Do you want to save your marriage to Margie?

That's all I've got for you right now. I will be back later today while at work and if you have answered that question, then I will offer specific advice.

BTW, I am trying to avoid assuming anything, even something so basic as what I asked, because many of the troubles in a marriage and around here come from making assumptions beyond those that set the stage for what we discuss around here.

I'm not asking to be a wise a$$ or to judge your answer or your marriage. I tend to use a specific logic process to address problems so for me, having not actually seen you state this anywhere (sorry if I missed it in skimming your thread) from this single point, I can advise you one way or the other, but it is a point of demarcation from which advice will flow one direction or the other and saving the marriage versus dismantling the marriage are no longer compatible concepts that can coexist. So answer that single question, and I will be back later.

If you doubt my sincerity, click on my user name, and read a few of my posts or read a link or two from my sig line.

Mark

Andrew,

Sorry you feel this board is a waste of time. If you feel the problem is a medical one, then yes, MB will not be able to give you the help you need, and you need to get Margie to a doctor. But, this forum is about MB concepts and using that to save your marriage. Nobody is entertained by the end of a marriage - most of us here are or have been devastated by our own marriages falling apart.

Do you want to save your marriage?

Andrew:

I told Margie upfront that she needed to go fix herself, LONG before she is capable of fixing her marriage.

I pointed out some things that can help on your side of the fence to you.

This is a discussion Board. Nothing more, nothing less. YOu can learn here, or not.

But the reason that this board is here is becasue the Harleys created the MB process YEARS ago. It works, It works for marriages that are completely blown up, and it works for those that need a little tinkering.

And those that have used it, like to pay it forward by hanging around here. So use it for what you can.

LG