"Her recent behavior seemed to me to show that she wanted to come back. I came out of plan B for a couple days to show her I was able to entertain the idea."

You broke plan B with your WW when she came around without her asking if she had given up OM and went NC with him.

Bad!

WW: what's up with you

PM: well...

Good

WW: what's up with you

PM: Are you NC with OM

WW: well it's like this....

PM: cuts off WW is it yes or no

WW: well.....

PM: cuts off WW, bye hangs up.

You let WW reel you in, rub the OM in your face, gets you to show you are still waiting for her as she does OM.

Wheres that dictionary..Doormat....

Yep, I made a mistake and did not confirm NC before breaking plan B. I won't make that mistake again.

However, that mistake doesn't mean I'm "waiting" for her. I don't have the out-of-control anxiety I did 7 months ago. The door is not closed yet, but it is getting there.

WW�s parents own a cottage that we have used, maintained and improved for about 15 years. About this time every year we would be making plans to open the place up for the season.

Like most family cottages, this was a very special place for me and WW. We purchased many things for the cottage over the years, primarily for our joint enjoyment, but also for other family members using it. Some things, such as a decks, stairs, etc., I cannot legally remove because they are part of the real property and technically titled to my in-laws. However, things like appliances, furniture, electronics, etc. are personal property that would technically be titled to me and WW.

I am thinking of retrieving all the personal property. I don�t need it, but I don�t think WW is entitled to enjoy the use of it if she decides to go there, especially if POSOM goes along. The in-laws will probably not be back to the cottage due to health issues, and the other siblings use it infrequently. Their inaction since exposure makes me think they aren�t entitled to enjoy the use of it either.

So, taking the stuff � good idea or bad??

Take anything personal. It belongs to you and why should POSOM and your WW get to use it?

That's my thinking - just wanted to get feedback from others as to any potential downside I might not be seeing.

I'm not so sure this is a good idea since the cottage is owned by the inlaws. Do you have a key? Could you be accused of trespassing or much worse, burglary?

I do have a key. It would not be considered trespassing by nature of the family's management & use LLC which as of now I am still party to. Burglary is essentially trespassing with the intent to commit a crime, such as theft. Since I wouldn't be trespassing, and the stuff belongs to me, I don't think it could be considered burglary either.

Be very careful...

If it were me...I'd certainly go and get a few things I really wanted out of there right now on the sly. Appliances might be a bit much to pull off but lots of more personal items should be ok. I'd have the defense that I took them say last fall (but this involves being dishonest upon questioning by say a police officer so just stick to the "consent" defense) so I'd be sure it wasn't much that I took and only things that were really mine. Who could really object to you getting your things off a property you've had open use of FOR YEARS? They certainly never sent you any notice NOT to enter the property or get anything. It's not really "trespass" either as "trespass" is an intentional tort which means you had to intend to trespass. Consent and necessity are defenses to "trespass" and you've had "consent" for YEARS now.

Plus, since the stuff is "marital property" anyway...it's not like it's GONE. It's just in your possession for the time being (possession in 9/10th of the law so having it sure beats NOT having it). I'm sure the divorce petition includes a provision which says you can't dissipate marital assets and you haven't/won't. You just stick to the story that you removed MOST of such items last fall at the end of the summer season WAY before you were served divorce papers.

Then...you maybe contact by phone her dad and ask if you can go to the cottage and get a few things out. Your personal belongings and such. Be vague. Tape record the conversation (most states are two party states with regards to recording telephone conversations but certainly check your state and regardless, if the father tries to LIE and say you never spoke to him, even in a one party state, the "illegal" telephone recording could be used to indict the father for perjury).

Then make a second trip out there to get a bunch of other personal property with such specific "consent".

If he says "no", then be content that you got some it and maybe even say something for the benefit of your recording like "well, that's ok, because I got most of my stuff out last fall when we shut the place down for the winter".

Sorry, I'm talking in circles now. Please consult with your own attorney in your own state (however, when doing so...be sure to speak in hypotheticals so as to not involve your attorney in any potentially criminal activity lest he is duty bound to report you).

Good luck,

Mr. W

Awesome...you remain a member of the LLC??? Then, IMO, you can do and take WHATEVER you want. However, the police could show up and stop you until things are sorted out so make several smaller trips back and forth to a storage locker. Nosey neighbors might call on you and you don't want that to occur when some truck is filled to the gills with personal property. The cops likely won't take your word for it...up front and you'll end up barred thereafter

It looks good...but be careful.

Mr. W

p.s. - I presume there wasn't a carefully drafted LLC Operating Agreement. There never is in these family type situations. Without one...you guys are all essentially partners and can handle the property as EACH INDIVIDUAL PARTNER sees fit. Again...ask your attorney and read your documents.

There is a carefully drafted operating agreement. We are still married, and there has been no action for divorce filed, so under the terms I'm still a partner. If a divorce is eventually granted, the agreement has a somewhat cumbersome provision that allows the rest of the partners to decide if we both stay, both go, or one stays and one goes if we do not make that decision for ourselves.

Does the LLC actually own the land or just in charge of managing it?

Does the operating agreement give or somehow divide up the rights to usage of the property?

If you want you could edit out all identifying information from the document and send it to my email below. I'd be happy to take a look at it. I've been drafting operating agreements for years and the laws don't vary much from state to state.

Mr. Wondering

No legal advice here, but I would take anything out that you want for yourself, such as personal items.

I would then put pictures of you and WW up ALL OVER THE PLACE. But, that's just me.

There's an old story I think I read here at some point or another...

I have no idea whether it's true or not.

A BH allegedly put Sardines in the curtain rods of his home upon being moved out, divorced and replaced by OM. XW got the house in the divorce settlement. Thereafter, the house became gradually smellier. The xw couldn't figure out where the smell was coming from. She tried everything and the stink permeated. Supposedly, she put the house up for sale and couldn't sell it for the stink. The BH sent a strawman in to buy the home back at a substantially reduced price and assigned the purchase agreement to the xh.

The kicker...when BH moved, apparently the XW removed the curtains and rods and took them with her.

Sounds a bit far-fetched to me that where the smell is coming from wouldn't end up being identified. Plus, even rotting things eventually stop rotting and stop smelling. To me somewhere in the ventalation system would have been a harder spot to find and identify...but it's still a good story.

Mr. Wondering

MW-

The LLC is only manages the property at this point. The property is in a separate trust, and the LLC has first right of refusal to purchase after both parents are deceased. Not necessarily the best interest of the estate, but it makes some sense based on the sibling situation. None of these setups are ever perfect or can account for every "what if".

I only have a hard copy; I should scan / OCR it. I'm heading out of town on business for a week; maybe I can get to it when I return.

The sardine story is a riot - wouldn't surprise me if it's true.

2 weeks ago I decided it was time for plan D. I got an attorney. I cleaned out the cottage. I told WW I was filing, and that if she had any input on the property settlement to get it to me. A couple days ago I received the email below from her. It might be a sign of the fog lifting ever so slightly; even if it is there is obviously a lot still there.

I'm not going to stop plan D unless she abides by the terms of my plan B letter.

Comments appreciated.

(OM's) house is starting to wear on me. The gang-y hoods, the lack of shopping, not being able to walk alone, a dying community. You have done nothing to entice me to return. Every time I think about coming home (daily) I get a feeling of dread that just has no end. A longing, riddled with panic. I miss my potting shed, my house, my goofy dishes and sometimes even you. But I think about how mean you can be and what if I came home and got trapped there? Sure, I'd like to see that I make the right decision. I'm not so sure that it has to do with betrayal. That's just a by-product. (OM) just wants me to be happy. If I left he'd understand. He's happy to have me here for as long as I want. When it's time to go, well then, it's time to go. If that means returning home, so be it. I think for me, it's more about identifying what drove me away in the first place...and deciding if I want to make something else there with you, if it's even obtainable.

Personally, I wouldn't even consider anything but plan D!

What a selfish load of crap she wrote you.

I concur with mai mai. That letter was basically "If you beg me, maybe I'll consider coming back" What a crock that was. She is trying to save her pride. Her tact appears to have you cave and then she will bless you with her presence. Then since it was all your fault anyways, if she feels like getting a quickie from the OM, it is her prerogative, since everything was your fault anyways. I wouldn't even e-mail her back. The nerve. You are entitled to contrition and sorrow for what she has done. Anything less is her trying to manipulate you and the situation, so she can eat cake. She deserves to live in the "hood". Its the life she chose. Move on and find someone who will look at you like you are someone of value, and entitled to be loved and to be faithful to.

She is obviously still in denial mode. She is terrified of taking responsibility for what she has done, as she thinks the burden of guilt will destroy her. What she doesn't want to recognize is that the burden of denial is what will do that.

While contrition, sorrow and an apology would be nice, it isn't really necessary for the reconciliation process to begin.

I am proceeding with plan D. The only way I would even consider putting it on hold is if she goes NC forever and is completely transparent. No cake eating.

I have come to think of affairs as gangrene in a marriage. Caught early enough, it can be treated simply. If you wait too long, the gangrenous part must be amputated. It is hard to let part of you go; the removal will be traumatic and it will leave an empty spot - however, it is necessary to save your life. If you do nothing but wish for some magic to make it better, you will die.

WW's A has been going for 5 years. The "official" D-day with positive proof and admittance was 15 months ago, but I had suspicions 3 years ago. WW has been living with OM for 9 months. After 6 months of Plan A and 9 of a (mostly dark) Plan B, I have concluded that the gangrene has reached a critical stage and must be amputated.

I have asked my WW wife to meet with me today. I will in inform her of my intent to divorce and discuss how we will proceed. I know divorce will be traumatic for me; it will be traumatic for her. I don't want to make it any more traumatic by approaching this with anger, and I think I'm prepared to have the discussion in a calm and rational manner. My lawyer advises that if we can work out a settlement framework on our own, it will be less expensive both financially and emotionally - and that makes a lot of sense to me.

Does anyone have any insight or experience they can share with me regarding telling a WS that it's over?

Wouldn't it be soo great to see her face when you tell her you want a D?!!

I DO!!

So get on here as soon as that happens, we wanna know!