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igrip, you have come a long way, friend! Just be strong and stand up for your marriage. When you meet with the lawyer, be sure and tell him what you want. A lawyer usually tries to take the easiest way in order to make his job easier. His goal is an easy divorce, yours is to drag things out, make the divorce difficult so you can save your marriage.

Since he works for you, you must tell him what you expect. And that is to countersue for adultery, giving you possession of the home, primary custody. [she took your child around this OM] Call the OM into court to give testimony about his affair and subpoena him and your wife for all phone and email records. [or other evidence of the affair]

Then, once this is done, you want to drag it out so you can outlast the affair....


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Igrip...If you do as Ms. Lane suggests you will likely see OM dump your wife in a heartbeat.

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Good luck iGrip - been following your thread and remember, dragging it out is by far the best way forward. You're doing the right thing for you this way - not the OM. Fingers crossed! Again - good luck!


(ME) BS - 32
(HER) WW - 32
Married 05/17/08
Together 13Yrs
no kids
D-Day - 03/03/10 (PA+EA)
FULL exposure 4/29/10
NC around OCT 2010
Recovery failing....
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Met with the big dog today and let her know my plans. She is on board.

These days, I cannot stand to be away from my daughter...I've become much closer to her in this past month (not that I was not before). However, it seems my 'presence' annoys my wife...today, folding laundry and helping clean up after dinner was making her upset....I just don't know how to act around her.

Oh well, until she changes herself, I cannot do anything about her, just myself. I've learned that much.

Here is another twist. MONDAY is our 7 year wedding anniversary. Just say 'happy anniversary' and enjoy our day and daughter? That is my thought on that subject.

Thanks for the continued advice and words of encouragement.

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Originally Posted By: MaiMai
Igrip...If you do as Ms. Lane suggests you will likely see OM dump your wife in a heartbeat.



Exactly! Do everything you can to put pressure on the affair. This is what every BS must do in a generic sense. More specifically, since you are a BH dealing with an fogged-up WW-affair,

Do everything you can to put pressure on the OM!

WW-affairs (whether or not the OM is married or single) depend largely on the OM. A WW will only very rarely voluntarily break it off herself. In the vast majority of circumstances, the affair only ends when the OM dumps the WW, not the other way around. [IMHO, a typical-WH is far more likely than a typical-WW to end an affair by choice. WHs tend to cake-eat more and be less emotionally-consumed/committed to their lover than WWs usually are.]

Igrip, the key to marital recovery for you is ENDING THE AFFAIR ASAP.
Her fog will not lift and she will not be willing to reconcile as long as she is together with him.
The key to ending the affair asap is to GET THE OM TO DUMP YOUR WW.

Everything you can do to make the OM uncomfortable, to make his life a living hell, & to make his relationship with your WW not worth all this trouble INCREASES THE ODDS THAT HE WILL CHUCK HER ASIDE. Up till lately, the OM has been getting his ego boosted and his lust satisfied for FREE. RAISE THE COST TO HIM DRAMATICALLY and he will probably leave her.

Rat him out to everyone.
Embarrass him.
Haul him into court.
Subpoena him.
Inconvenience him.
Make him take time off work.
Make him incur monetary expense.
Put the fear of God into him.

ANYTHING that wont land you in jail is fair game here DO IT.

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You're doing *great*! Keep up the good work.

It's great that MIL seems supportive for now. Accept her support and appreciate it... but don't rely on it. And don't confide in her too much. Like others have said, blood is thicker than water.

It's great that you've now got a lawyer protecting your and your family's legal interests.

Only you can make the call for what would be appropriate for your anniversary, but I would probably recommend *something*, like flowers and a card saying something appropriate - not a message that is obviously false, but maybe something about remembering the good things, and/or hoping for the best in the future. Maybe something about loving her through good times and bad.

Not so much that she will be annoyed. But something that will make some LB$ deposits.

Is there something on a less-personal level that she might like as a gift?


me - 47 tired
H - 39 cool
married 2001
DS 8a think
DS 8b :crosseyedcrazy:
(Why is DS7b now a blockhead???)
(Ack! Now he's not even a blockhead, just a word! That's no fun!)
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Just a quick question. She is angry. All the time. Nothing makes her happy. She does not know how to be happy anymore. She is 'still' harping on the 'immaturity' of the exposure. She is angry that I snooped. She is angry that I am calm all of the time. And she thinks my personal changes are 'fake.'

All part of the withdrawal process? Tough to be me these days and not take her 'personally' but whew, this is not easy.

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Word for word what my WW said. And still says from time to time. Remember, deep down she is more angry that you burst the illusion of the fantasy inside her head. She now realizes that her behavior has consequences. She will strike out at you, and take her anger out towards you. Repeatedly.

Keep rising above it. It will take time and consistently before she realizes that the changes may not be fake. Just keep doing the next right thing. Her anger will cool. You did the right thing.


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You are rubber and she's glue...

everything she says bounces off of you and sticks to her.


Plan A

Listen...

Acknowledge...

If uncertain or exasperated repeat her statement back to her for clarification (so she can MAYBE rephrase OR MAYBE hear how ridiculous she sounds)...

Ignore...MOVE THE CONVERSATION ON...

If that doesn't work...DISTRACT...

Then...MOVE THE CONVERSATION ON.

Consider that she is at least speaking to you and you are IN a relationship with her meeting her need for communication. As frustrating as it is...just let it bounce off you.

If she was "withdrawing" from crack cocaine...would you take ANYTHING she said personally????

Of course you wouldn't...you are supporting her and meeting her needs as she hopefully traverses a very difficult time in her life. IF she makes it (you better be snooping to confirm "no contact")...you WILL be rewarded for your efforts. IF you work the program and rebuild a wonderful marriage of MUTUAL extraordinary care...she is going to be blown away by how strong and resilient you were during THIS period. The WORSE she is to you the MORE loved she will eventually FEEL.

If you and she are unsuccessful recovering your marriage...YOU will be able to move forward without remorse and/or regret KNOWING you tried your best and did all you could to save your family.

Either way...YOU WILL MAKE IT.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - OCCASSIONALLY...the "stick" of Plan A can be wielded calmly and with precision. When she makes a ludicrous statement it is NOT a mistake or misstep to CONFRONT her on it if you and her are ENGAGED in a conversation that she can't really walk away from. You DON'T push for "serious relationship talk" all the time during Plan A but sometimes it just happens. Be calm and direct. Make your point and THEN move on even if she wants to dwelve on it which OFTEN will only result in MORE ludicrous and hurtful statements. Withdrawing waywards are fairly empty vessels. You merely plant seeds and allow them to germinate over time. Eventually productive CONFRONTATION will be your friend (it's the only path to intimacy from withdrawal) once she's moved past withdrawal and into active MUTUAL recovery...but until then...it's Plan A (with lots of snooping)


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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She is "angry" (completely expectedly and predictably) at you because:

1. Exposure tends to erode the feel-good fantasy of the affair. Affairs, like all 'forbidden fruits', thrive on SECRECY and the thrill of danger. She's pissed that your exposure has degraded and wrecked the pristine 'fun little secret' she shared with her POSOM.

2. Exposure also reveals her behavior for the sleazy, depraved immorality that it is. She is also angry because you have basically held a mirror to her face and forced her to see some ugly realities about herself (lying, betrayal, sleeping around, etc.) that she would rather not face. This is guilt & shame towards the mirror.

3. Exposure also changes the psychology of her interactions with all the people (yourself, family, friends, etc.) that now "KNOW". She is also angry that every time she sees or talks to any of them, she is uncomfortably reminded of the fact that he/she "KNOWS". This is guilt & shame towards others.


Understand that her anger is NORMAL and PAR FOR THE COURSE.

You handled it very well by not buying into her attempts to pick a fight with you or turn it back on you.

Stay cool and refuse to engage or respond to her misdirected anger. Acknowledge it but do not validate it, then change the subject.

If she will not climb down, then wait for a better opportunity. A good way to do this is to calmly and firmly say "I see that you are very upset and agitated right now. I care about you and will be happy to discuss our relationship productively when you are calm and ready."

Then walk away...


xWW:
Secret LTA w/ thrice married OM at her workplace; EA/PA starts ~ 2005-6
Files & completes D - 2007, OM/OMW#3 D - 2007, Affairage - immediately thereafter
Disappears in 2006 w/o even a goodbye to anyone, Never a paragraph of real truth ever spoken
Me/xBH:
M "for life", Suspicions (denied) & desperate Plan A latter-half '06
1st D-day 1/07, full truth D-day 7/08 (all via 3rd parties)
NC w/ xWW 8/08-date, better off w/o unrepentant vileness, betrayal, & rampant deceit in my life anymore
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Thanks everyone...today, another 'angry' day - on par for the course unfortunately.

I am getting a bit better at not taking her 'jabs' personally.
She is angry at me being around so much. She wants her 'personal' time with our daughter back. I told her she did not let me know this before, but I will be glad to oblige her now that I know. Took baby out for a bike ride..when we got back, wife apologizes for how she was acting all day...she was still angry, but apologized at her behavior. I felt that was nice. However, her behavior returned quickly.

Daughter is really difficult with wife these days...feeding off of her anger I imagine. She is an angel and patient with me...but gives her mom fits....so I am the patient one here that takes over (tonight, I told my wife to go take a 5 minute walk because she was getting so frustrated at our daughter not eating dinner well. I took over, and baby cleaned her plate, then helped by picking up her legos and puzzles afterwards...perfect). Of course she can see her mom not acting right.

Ah well, this too shall pass. One way or another..things will get better. I am learning patience. More than I ever wanted to learn, but am doing it. And not being a doormat. But being nice and pleasant. All in one. No wonder my wife doesn't believe me....but guess what, this IS me now. Thanks all.

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Just had a decent 'argument' and I am stressed. I was sitting calmly reading on my computer when she came in and started telling me about what changes are going to happen in 61 days and that me being around all the time was throwing off our daughters schedule. I was calm and asked her if it was a bad thing that a dad spent time with his daughter? Asked her questions about what she meant would change in 61 days (divorce minimum time according to state, etc....). Basically, she got annoyed which she does often and went off towards her room. I called her back in just to ask her about her anger and what we could do about it as I don't like tension. She reacted to my calling her back so I told her 'never mind' and that we would talk later. FIVE times she pushed me to 'talk' although I tried to keep it in for the night. Of course, once I folded and told her, anger ensued, comments flew around and she got MORE angry and walked away about 10 minutes later. I really have no idea what just happened. She equates ANY thing I do to 'trying' something sneaky or guilty and that offends me...as I have never given any indication to that. I have been great for the past month...but tonight, was just bad overall..I didn't get TOO angry, but definitely somewhat and that bothers me but she knows what buttons to push and she did it.

One step backwards tonight. I was calm and happy - now I am tense and upset.

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Ten steps backward. No relationship talks. WW knows how to set you up. She knew that you would not be able to leave the 61 comment alone and baited, no hook line and sinkered you into a fight.

Meeting WW's goal to justify in her mind to dump you. Justify to ignore the changes you have been making in your self.

Your life is out of control and you must resist the tempatations to instantly repair things.

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Exactly what TheRoad said.

This is a MARATHON not a SPRINT. You need to focus on your plan and not fall into hers. When you embrace the MB plans you will start to gain confidence and you will feel GREAT. You will become pleasantly surprised. Embrace it and see what I mean. smile


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
Scotty's THING laugh
Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

THANK YOU
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I know I know...thank you all. I slept on it and realized that I should have been strong enough to handle it differently. I did not make any relationship talk, just the arguing was wrong. Should have been more patient and bit my tongue. Ah well, back to the original Plan A. Better this time smile But, isn't part of getting out of withdrawal conflict? Ah yes, just answered my own question..conflict on her end handled by patience and understanding on my end. Got it...see, I am learning smile

Last edited by igrip; 05/31/10 02:39 PM.
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Another question. She has mentioned 'co-parenting' therapy as the only viable counseling she is interested in. If we did go to that, would that be in any way 'beneficial' in lifting this fog we are dealing with? Or help any other way? I can see it both ways - one, it would inject some well needed reality into this situation for her. Or two, it would give me false hope, then disappoint me if she was fine with whatever co-parenting things we came up with because the fog is still so thick.

Any thoughts on that? I was just thinking of options to alleviate some of her anger, resentments, etc.....on a day to day basis. But perhaps time is all that I have on this one..outlasting her affair and outlasting her withdrawal symptoms?

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NO CO-PARENTING. She needs to know that this will be UGLY for her. Co-parenting is part of the fantasy of a wayward. Don't buy into the fantasy.


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
Scotty's THING laugh
Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

THANK YOU
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Originally Posted By: igrip
Another question. She has mentioned 'co-parenting' therapy as the only viable counseling she is interested in. Another question. She has mentioned 'co-parenting' therapy as the only viable counseling she is interested in.


This is a pretty classic PLOY pulled by most waywards to get you to go along with her intended destruction of the marriage. What it means is she wants you to "be her friend" while she destroys your family "for the children." She is using your child as a pawn to get you to go along with her marriage wrecking, selfish agenda. If you go along she will feel less guilty because you will be co-opting her agenda. This will make it easier for her to destroy your marriage for her affair. She desperately wants you to go along and not object while she sticks it to you.

So tell her you are already a great parent and don't need any counseling for that. Nor do you need to be in direct contact with her to be a good parent.

Tell her if you do get divorced, you won't be her "friend," because if she successfully screws you over for her adultery, it would not be emotionally healthy for you to be around her. Your child DOES NOT benefit in any, way, shape or form from you pretending to be "friends" with someone who lies and cheats on you. That is not "friend" material.

Let her know you won't cooperate with any "co-parenting" schemes unless it is within the confines of MARITAL RECOVERY. Nor do you want or need to be "friends" with her. You are her Husband or nothing.

There are several psychologists who would recommend you END CONTACT with her for 2 years if your marriage is dissolved over her adultery. The reason is because adultery is so abusive that contact with her would harm your emotional state and IMPAIR your parenting abilities. Imagine how traumatic it would be to have to co-parent with your wife while she is in an affair with her OM and he has replaced you at your home?

Could you "co-parent" under those conditions? Coparenting article

And Dr Harley:
Quote:
The court is extremely unlikely to force you to have contact with your husband, especially if a clinical psychologist has advised against it because of the emotional damage that it can do. Your intermediary can do anything that you could do with direct contact. Remember, it's for your safety and health.

Only 16% of all divorces end up amicable. You are not the one wanting the divorce, and have made your terms of reconciliation clear. There is nothing left for you to do -- it's all up to your husband now.

No one can afford a divorce, but you will have to do what you can to defend your interests. And the healthier and happier you are, the easier that will be for you.



Originally Posted By: Dr Harley
When a WS refuses to leave the lover, there are no good options for the BS. At first, plan A is recommended because there is a slim hope (15%) that, with encouragement, a WS will make the decision to leave the lover. But 85% don't do that, even when plan A is implemented perfectly. That leaves two other choices which are both bad. The first is to continue plan A indefinitely, trying to encourage the WS to leave the lover, and the second is to initiate plan B, which is to completely separate from the WS. The problem with a coninuation of plan A is that it usually leads to severe emotional symptoms, including years of post-traumatic stress disorder, even when the WS eventually returns. Many women that I've counseled actually have nervous breakdowns in their effort to draw their WS back to them. Instead of making the BS attractive to the WS, plan A actually makes these poor women so unattractive that it completely eliminates all hope of reconciliation. And 95% of all affairs eventually "die a natural death." If you do absolutely nothing, they usually end.

So I've recommended plan B rather early in the effort to separate the WS from his lover.



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Your child DOES NOT benefit in any, way, shape or form from you pretending to be "friends" with someone who lies and cheats on you.


I just wanted to chime in and say that this is so. Our culture has some insane ideas about children of divorce and how both parents "for the children" should try to build each other up in the child's eyes, but that is really just a way for one scummy parent to benefit personally at the expense of the other parent AND the child! frown Don't fall for it.

If she divorces, she should bear the cost of building a relationship with her child HERSELF, not benefit from you doing it for her by LYING to the child and saying things like "Your mother loves you, no matter what," etc.

I say this goes for Plan B, as well.

If divorced mother wants to prove she loves child and is a great mother, then she should damn well prove it by her actions, and that's between her and the child. If someone else tries to make the child feel that way for her, then it will be fake and damaging to the child.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted By: igrip
But, isn't part of getting out of withdrawal conflict?


I highly recommend you handle the conflict state of mind in marriage without any love busters at all. Don't do it the way I did; do it the right way!


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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