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I have posted some things about my relationship in another post which may be of a lot of help to anyone who is willing to help me. I found out several years ago that my husband is addicted to pornography. I made it very clear to him that I wanted it to stop and it was ruining our marriage. He always says he knows but it just helps him to relax. He says he doesn't mean anything toward me but he just needs that to keep him sane basically. To me it still is no excuse. I realize that my lack of sex drive makes this much harder for him but I have always been there for him sexually. It's very rare that I ever turn him down. I know that I have a serious sexual aversion and within the past week I have been going through Dr. Harley's steps to over come that. I have been doing lots of research and trying to figure out what we need to do to improve our marriage. He doesn't seem to take any steps on his own without me telling him everything first. I just installed a keylogger and found out that he is doing internet phone sex. I've read some of the things he says and it disgusts me. Needless to say it does not help my sexual aversion I have toward him. I am at the end of my rope with this and need some serious advice...quick. Thanks and please read my other posts and comment as well.

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Not having read your other posts ... One thing strikes me.
You and H seem to want two totally different things in your marriage.

You have one thing set as your "end zone".
H has a different "end zone".
This is a problem.
You're both rowing the boat in opposite directions.

H does not want to stop the porn.
Chances are, he won't stop the porn, even though it bothers you a lot.

Chances are, your love bank will soon be in the "empty".
Your marriage is a "renter's agreement".

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MLG8878 Offline OP
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So what do I do? I talked with him about it and made it very clear that it would stop or I was done. I am tired of being the only one looking for answers to our problems while he is going behind my back causing more problems. I am not saying at all that I have never caused any problems and I'm not saying I never will. I just don't know what to do about this one.

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Addictions are a powerful thing!

I would suggest researching Plan B and preparing yourself to move into this plan.

IMO, This is the same as dealing with infidelity, or drug addiction. The same plans apply.

You are trying to negotiate with an addict to give up their drug..... It doesn't work! Until you are willing to step out of this cycle, allowing him to realize he cannot get his needs met without you, the cycle will continue as it is.





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Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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Your H's porn addiction has nothing to do with you. It is not about you. I'm sure these words are hard to believe. But you must believe this in order to do what's necessary.

You are basically dealing with an active wayward. No matter what you do, it will never be good enough until he stops his affair with pornography. He will twist it and turn it and continue to make it your fault. Unless you stop buying into this babble, you'll be drug down the path of destruction with him.

It will be very important for you to be ready to enter Plan B as soon as possible. At the same time you enter Plan B, you should expose his porn addiction to the people of influence in his life (family, close friends, church leader, etc.)

The way that you fight any addiction or affair is by eliminating the secrets. In order to eliminate all the secrets, it becomes necessary to expose his porn addiction in one swift tsunami. By being in Plan B, you are protected from his anger.

I really have a strong opinion about your situation. I truly believe his porn addiction is just as damaging as him being involved in an active affair. Please do not delay in taking actions. I will be praying for you.





Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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MLG8878 Offline OP
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Plan B seems very logical to me. The only problem is that I'm absolutely scared to death. I have never told anyone of the problems that we have and it is overwhelming to me to imagine letting the world know. In a way I feel like telling would be so cruel to my H. I can see the point though. We have talked a lot the past few days. He originally told me that he would do anything it took to make this work. I told him that until he had complete separation from his lover (that he claims hasn't been a lover in about 3 years) with no contact whatsoever that I couldn't begin to trust him and be able to fulfill his emotional needs. We wrote a letter to the lover together. I explained to him the sample letter Dr. Harley gave but he didn't want to do it that way. He discussed his feelings and made it about a 2 page letter. He said that the counseling he was going through suggests that he tell her about any wrong feelings he once had and that they were gone now. Also that it suggests that their communication be kept to a MINIMUM and contact should be on a have to basis!!!!! I told him I appreciated his attempt to do this but he missed the point. He got upset (lots of crying) and to make a long story short he said he didn't think he could do that. We made negotiations about the letter, which I probably shouldn't even have done, but he hasn't sent it. A couple of days later the lover calls him because she needed a product that we sell. He decided to tell her the things in this letter. He never once told her that he shouldn't have any more contact with her. He left it like this was all what the counselor was telling him to do but it wasn't what he wanted.
I also said that the pornography had to end and he needed help with this problem. His idea of help is when he has the urge to look at it he expects me to be there sexually for him. I can understand that but there are times when I can't be there. Today was one of those days. He texted me this morning after I went to work (we farm and I had to leave for the field before he did to take care of customers) and said he was having "urges". I asked him what he meant and he said "the urge to relax myself". I assumed that meant the urge to look at porn. I replied with "I believe you are strong enough to overcome this. You need to remove yourself from easy accessibility". He said he thought I should be accessible to him. I should've been able to flirt with him to give him some satisfaction. I realize I'm the one with the sexual aversion here but it doesn't seem to make sense to me that anytime he has an urge I should be able to flirt or have sex. Sometimes there is work to do. Is this a crazy thought? It makes me feel like he thinks the answer to his porn addiction and his affair is for me to give myself to him sexually whenever he has the urge. I don't think that's fair. Am I right or wrong here?

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MLG-
I just came across your post and I am shaking. I will go back and find your other posts. Your post, this post, could have been mine.

But I have been too ashamed to speak the whole truth for nearly 10 years until the last week. I just opened up and shared it with a couple of people. It has been SO hard. I am so embarrassed by it all. And he knows now too and is very angry. I think I have failed by not doing a full exposure. I struggle to think my experience is "equal" to those whose spouses have "officially" cheated. I didn't think exposure was the same for an addiction like this as it was for a "real live" other person. Maybe that speaks more about my own fears on this than the reality of the addiction.

I am trying to learn all I can. I have been attending a special group for this. I can say, if not dealt with, it will not go away on its own. I can't give you good advice on it (plenty of ways NOT to deal with it - but no healthy ones yet). I am sure hoping others jump on your thread and can.

Please, please keep posting.

tst- are there other threads addressing this topic that you can reference? I don't understand how an exposure letter would look in this situation.

hug MLG for posting.

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MLG8878 Offline OP
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Thanks LionorGazelle for your post. I truly believe that we are not alone. I agree with you 100%. My actions speak so much about my own fears. I think fear is what is holding me back from doing what I believe is right. I feel like I know what I need to do but I also let him manipulate me into feeling like I'm the bad guy, especially if I were to ever tell anyone. I know it's not true but it seems like I can never believe that when we are discussing it. Please pray for me that I will do what God would have me to and not what my husband would have me to. I will do my best to pray for you too. Thanks again

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MLG-
I have come to learn we are not alone. But it still feel SO lonely.

My struggle for a decade has been that if he had "just cheated" (and PLEASE do not think I mean anything minimizing by that with regards to the impact of the affair choices your H made) that as you read in MB that like half of all spouses cheat. If he had "just been a cheater", I would fit in.

(Just typing that - I burst into tears. Need a minute)

I would not be standing here, on the outside of the surviving an affair thread, watching every other betrayed spouse fight for their marriage.

I still am struggling to say out loud (or type) with conviction that I am a betrayed spouse, even though that is exactly how I feel in my heart.

I do not feel like I fit in. Everybody agrees having an affair while married is wrong. But when it comes to porn, you are faced with not only the reactions from others because of their own beliefs or struggles with porn, but their own judgments on it. If they do it "a little" and that works in their marriage, they will judge. If they have an issue with it personally, they will judge. It is human nature to be self-protective when we are embarrassed or in pain.

It is like trying to discuss parenting discipline styles with another parent. They may think 100% like you, they may disagree 100%, or they may agree with some and not the others. But you likely can't change what they believe about their parenting style.

But if two families make a commitment to each other to watch each others' kids, then they have to find a way to agree to one style and it doesn't work to say "I agree" to your face, and then do it the other way behind your back.

When it comes to an affair, everyone knows it is wrong (except the WS while they are having it I guess). But with porn addiction and compulsive masturbation, I feel so, so alone and judged. Until I see a thread like yours and a post like that from "tst". And everything comes overflowing from the depths of my being.

I have found my own recovery started with attending COSA meetings (first safe place I ever had to talk to someone who understood). I also got some amazing information and comfort from the site pornaddicthubby.com as well as author Barbara Steffens.

I thought living as I have for 9 years had been the hardest part of my life. I was wrong. I think I am about to enter it.

MLG, you are not alone.
tst, thank you.
LovingAnyway...you are not even on this thread (yet) but if you can find your way here, your insights are so insightful and...loving. I think MLG could use your wisdom and kindness.

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Originally Posted By: MLG8878
We made negotiations about the letter, which I probably shouldn't even have done, but he hasn't sent it. A couple of days later the lover calls him because she needed a product that we sell. He decided to tell her the things in this letter. He never once told her that he shouldn't have any more contact with her. He left it like this was all what the counselor was telling him to do but it wasn't what he wanted.


I'm sorry, but this is just silly! redflag

This refusal to go NC is an obvious indication that your H has NO interest in protecting you from his thoughtless/abusive behavior. Which is why exposure of this and his porn addiction is so necessary. Once the secret is no longer a secret, the addiction loses much of it's appeal and power.

Neither you nor him can negotiate on the NC letter or the boundary of NC for life. uhuh

He is to give YOU the letter and YOU send it when it meets YOUR approval. But as you've seen, this is not going to happen at this time.... he's not ready to stop yet!

Which is why you must do;

Major Exposure!

then protect yourself by going in to Plan B!




Originally Posted By: MLG8878
I also said that the pornography had to end and he needed help with this problem. His idea of help is when he has the urge to look at it he expects me to be there sexually for him. I can understand that but there are times when I can't be there. Today was one of those days. He texted me this morning after I went to work (we farm and I had to leave for the field before he did to take care of customers) and said he was having "urges". I asked him what he meant and he said "the urge to relax myself". I assumed that meant the urge to look at porn. I replied with "I believe you are strong enough to overcome this. You need to remove yourself from easy accessibility". He said he thought I should be accessible to him. I should've been able to flirt with him to give him some satisfaction. I realize I'm the one with the sexual aversion here but it doesn't seem to make sense to me that anytime he has an urge I should be able to flirt or have sex. Sometimes there is work to do. Is this a crazy thought? It makes me feel like he thinks the answer to his porn addiction and his affair is for me to give myself to him sexually whenever he has the urge. I don't think that's fair. Am I right or wrong here?


I'm in agreement... his SD's are just ridiculous!

You are dealing with an entitled wayward and the porn addiction is just another symptom of his waywardness!

Exposure!

Plan B!





Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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MLG "It makes me feel like he thinks the answer to his porn addiction and his affair is for me to give myself to him sexually whenever he has the urge. "

THERE you have the heart of the problem! What he is doing is abusive, in that he is seeking to control you via sex. You have (per his thinking) a choice: either come across with sex (no matter whether you like or not!) or else he is justified in his porn and affair because YOU would not sacrifice your body, your needs, and your love, to his whims.

My husband had the porn addiction, plus he specialized in coercive sex, whether it was pleasant for me or repellent. He actually said that I should be willing to "take one for the team", to keep him happy! I had such a sexual aversion to him that by the time we split up, I'd cringe at his very touch.

Pornography objectifies women because it is isolated pictures of breasts, genitals, and sex acts, with absolutely no connection to the actual woman. Guys get fired up by this, then turn to their wives and want to treat them as breasts, genitals, and sex acts, with no concern for their hearts, minds, and feelings.

I really hope you can find some support for what you are going through. My prayers are with you.


http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2399446#Post2399446
FBS- me, 53
FWH-53
Married 34 yrs
DD 27 and 30, DS 19 (disabled)
after 2nd DDay, filed for D Dec 09 (me)
6-6-10 WH moved in with OW
7-3-10 WH returned home
taking recovery one day at a time

"Forget the former things;
do not dwell on the past.
See I am doing a new thing!
I am making a way in the desert
and streams in the wasteland."
Isaiah 43:18-19
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tst - I do not want to hijack MLB's thread.

Can you hop over to my new one? Lion's Thread

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Originally Posted By: EllenG

THERE you have the heart of the problem! What he is doing is abusive, in that he is seeking to control you via sex. You have (per his thinking) a choice: either come across with sex (no matter whether you like or not!)


Or is he saying "I'm really in the mood to have sex. I want to have sex with you. Will you come and join me in a mutual satisfying experience?" She says no because there's work to be done so he feels rejected, he's still in the mood and now wants a quick release. He has a strong urge to look at porn. So he's honest with her and tells her he's having urges. So rather than turning straight to porn, he wants to have a physical connection with his wife.

Pornography objectifies men also. Lifetime TV and Red Shoe Diaries and shows like that are the ones that bring the porn aspect and throw a semblance of romance into it. Saying that husbands watch it and then treat their wives like an object is not only sexist but now isolates men to suddenly becoming thoughtless and emotionless creatures only fueled by some sort of caveman desire.
Ellen, how sexually available are you to your husband? Do you often brush off his desire to have sex with you? Im asking because theres a huge difference between a porn addiction and using porn because of a lacking of sex in a relationship. Im not discounting your feelings that you dont care for porn and dont want it a part of your relationship. However, I read on here a lot where as soon as a guy is known to view porn hes suddenly addicted to it. I believe you also said that he was having phone sex and the things he was saying was disgusting. Have you talked with him without making him feel judged about what he wants differently in yalls sex life?

Quote:
Pornography objectifies women because it is isolated pictures of breasts, genitals, and sex acts, with absolutely no connection to the actual woman. Guys get fired up by this, then turn to their wives and want to treat them as breasts, genitals, and sex acts, with no concern for their hearts, minds, and feelings.


Husband (me) 39
Wife 36
Daughter 21
Daughter 19
Son 14
Daughter 10
Son 8 (autistic)

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Kilted, Please do not thread jack MLG8878's Thread. She is in a struggle to end her H's affairs, both with porn and with the OW .........

You NEVER negotiate with a wayward!

The wayward ends the A's or

Exposure and Plan B are needed.





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Originally Posted By: tst
Kilted, Please do not thread jack MLG8878's Thread. She is in a struggle to end her H's affairs, both with porn and with the OW .........

You NEVER negotiate with a wayward!

The wayward ends the A's or

Exposure and Plan B are needed.



My apologies. For some reason I thought the OW was pornography and not an actual person.


Husband (me) 39
Wife 36
Daughter 21
Daughter 19
Son 14
Daughter 10
Son 8 (autistic)

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Originally Posted By: kilted_thrower
Originally Posted By: tst
Kilted, Please do not thread jack MLG8878's Thread. She is in a struggle to end her H's affairs, both with porn and with the OW .........

You NEVER negotiate with a wayward!

The wayward ends the A's or

Exposure and Plan B are needed.



My apologies. For some reason I thought the OW was pornography and not an actual person.


Thanks KT,

Just an FWI, Dr. Harley uses the same steps to end the thoughtlessness of an affair as he does to end the thoughtlessness of using porn.





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Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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MLG8878 Offline OP
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Well I am happy to report that I got my H to rewrite the letter to her. It was basically short and to the point. I feel like him writing it though will cause resentment towards me. It has been 2 days now and so far so good. We still are dealing with the addiction to porn though. I want him to find a support group of some kind but he still seems to think he can do this on his own. He said he can stop it because he has before. My answer is simple to that...if it was stopped before I wouldn't have found all of that garbage on the computer the other day. He thinks just because he has times when he can go for a while without looking then that means he is stopping. What he doesn't seem to get is when you look just once...you are right back on the boat!

Anyway I am still extremely hesitant about Plan B. I guess it's his manipulation that makes me feel guilty. I can see that he is trying by writing this letter and also trying to meet other ENs that I have. I feel like it's me giving up on him if I leave now. Should I go ahead and try to make baby steps now that we are over 1 hump? Thanks everyone for your input. It is very helpful.

Last edited by MLG8878; 05/31/10 08:38 AM.
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Is he participating in any kind of addiction recovery with a sponsor to hold him accountable?

You will wear down if you're the one holding him accountable to sobriety all the time. You might search the discussion boards for posts by POJAMAN and SUFFICIENTGRACE - he caught a lot of flack from those who enjoy porn because he knew full well the harm it does.

Oh - and the aversion you are dealing with - it is a protection against being used by his addiction as a means of acting out. You know when intimacy isn't sober for him and have been used enough that it isn't mutually pleasurable.

I recommend you find an anon program for yourself; you are more likely to recover your own desire for intimacy if you learn boundaries and have a sober partner. Al Anon works if you don't have an S-Anon program around. Also study "Boundaries" by Cloud and Townsend and "Safe People" by the same authors.

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KaylaAndy...unfortunately he is not involved in a support group. I know that he will not be able to do this alone because he has failed in the past. But he is trying to convince me that he can because it is a choice...to never look at it again or decide one day that he wants to again. That seems like a real reasonable answer to him. I told him that self help usually always fail because if you're relying on will power your "will" will fail you at some time or another.

I know it's bad to say but I guess I'm just waiting to "bust" him again. I don't want to feel that way. I really want him to seek help but on the other hand I feel like forcing him into a program, taking away internet, and taking away his phone would only make him go elsewhere to find it. I'm really stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I have another issue as well. Since he wrote the letter I told him that it was only one of several steps we both had to take. I know I had lots to do with the affair in the first place by not meeting his ENs. I promised him that if he could write the letter that I would start really trying to put forth an effort to meet his needs. The problem with this is his needs are mostly sexual. My question is how do I overcome my sexual aversion while at the same time trying to meet his sexual needs. I told him before that I was trying to go through the process of overcoming my aversion and I needed time for him to not pressure me for sex. That quickly failed. He became very irritable. He would say he wanted me to do this but then make me feel guilty for doing it because I wasn't meeting his needs. I simply don't know how to do both. I feel like when I have sex with him that I start back at the beginning of this process. Does this make sense? How do I go about fixing it? Thanks again everyone.

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Hi, KaylaAndy is my wife. I am a recovering sex addict, sexual compulsive among other things. Kylya would like me to see if I can help you.

In April 2002 I posted a thread called 'paper girlfriends' which seems to have been removed. It outlined the development of my addiction to porn. So...

Perhaps I will forbare trying to recreate it. I think if I were to actually turn my files upside down I could locate an old copy of it or something but I'm not motivated to do that.

anyway...

ask me anything and I'll see if I can give you any insight.


take what helps and leave the rest
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