OG_LOU, I am answering you in the Other Topics forum, rather than threadjacking this one.

Thanks Retread. I replied on that thread.

Lou

With regard to receiving SF, if our spouse's EN's change depending on the moment, then how is the spouse who needs SF EVER supposed to be "good enough" to receive SF? Because that it what it keeps boiling down to: I cannot/will not have SF until a, b, and c happen because I am "averse" to it without a, b, and c.

The fact that you have an EN and it is reasonable and not difficult to meet is "good enough" reason for the other spouse to make the effort to meet it.

Saying you don't feel like it, or you don't owe it, because you are waiting on your spouse to do A, B, C, X, Y, and Z for you first, is not the way the responsibility of meeting their ENs works.

ITA


It does seem that gems hubby has been spoiled from my point of view. . Maybe living in his feelings quite a bit. I don't know why it seems that way to me. but given this example..

He doesn't seem to pay as much attention to her and is very secure that his sexy beutiful wife is His. Sorta like the "taken for granted" thing many well taken care for Husbands and wives fall into.

They justify thier selfish behavior and stop experiencing the day by day life they can find in thier marriage and their spouse. .

Now relationship talk is silly and he won't even participate.
If there was some imediate emergency like financial ruin or sickness I could understand that taking precedent if Gem wasn't on board , but it seems she can pull her weight in that area and is capable of handling those things with him. .

If fromwhat I gather you are as pro-active and confidant a person as it semms he might just be scared of what relationship talk would lead to..another failure on his part to be good enough for you. So he acts like your silly and mistaken as a front for fear.

Whats there to be afraid about? LOL he has a great Gal. Ah if he didn't measure up.. but thats in his head anyways.

Yeah the IB he exhibits is his cave so to speak. My guess is you are trying to find a way to smoke him out?

Interestingly, frequency of sex is not the main issues that my husband has. My sex drive is as strong as his is. Our problem is with the type of sex that he wants to have. Before we married, we had a discussion on sex and the type of sex that he wants to have. My husband's previous sexual experiences included threesomes, oral sex, anal sex, and very limited what he refers to as "regular" sex. I shared with him an experience of mine in which I was raped and sodomized. I told him that because of my experience I could not participate in anal sex. He said ok. Once, when I was drunk I tried it and a couple of times after that. It was very painful and it brought back painful memories for me. Rather than to appreciate me for my efforts in trying, he wants a divorce because I won't engage in anal sex with him. I understand about sexual fulfillment being a very important emotional need for a man. But, I feel that he is wrong for trying to force me to do something that I am uncomfortable with just because he provides financial security for me. Am I wrong for not giving in to what he wants?

I don't think you are wrong. I think his desires go beyond what I would consider the EN of sexual fulfillment.

I suspect there is more going on in your H mind than lack of anal sex. Maybe her wants other things I suppose you would not approve.

As far as men in general wanting and sort of expecting anal sex, well I will pass on anal sex and say P in V is perfectly fine/much preferred for me. The only way anal would be OK is if my W insisted that was the only way she could cum, but P in V would have to be our main SF/LM most of the time. If P in V was good, I wouldn�t have any need for oral sex unless my W needed it.

FYI, Not all men think anal sex is so great.

I don't think you are wrong for not liking his type of sex.

Lou

Amanda

IMHO, When a guy wants more demonstrative sexual acts in the bedroom its because he doesn't connect to his mate the same as he used to. Now what I am talking about is NOT when two people are being playful or experimenting. What I am talking about is when the sexual act becomes more than emotionally bonding and seeking THE OTHER PERSONS PLEASURE as the goal. The personal goal is demonstrated submission by the other partner simply for submissions sake.

Most of these desires on either part come from a form of insecurity on the initiator, real or imagined, and sidestep the desire to please our partner while trading closeness with Physical possession.

I have experienced both the sheer ectasy of touching whom I love and knowing they want me being the catylyst for sexual activity and also the insecurity within myself of wanting more demonstrative acts because of betrayal or life events that had gone bad.

In the first case approaching climax and seeking to excite her might cause me to get a little freaky if I thought she wasn't turned on, but it was still allways something I backed down from if she didn't want it. Just the anticipation of touch and being desired, the moments of leading up to sex, the reading of her body lauguage was enjoyable as the act itself.

Can I get a witness?

In the second case it was during what is called here, "hysterical bonding", or what I would call,"Disconnected sex". When I knew something was wrong but used sex as a way to try and reach her as I comforted myself in the act. It lacked sensitivity towards her and it was all my taker getting himself satisfied desparatly wanting to be wanted or worse, doing an act that remotely was supposed to be intimate but felt empty because it was just an act. None of it was really satisfying. Rather than sex feeling that way it was better to talk because I knew there was a rift between us.

Of course there were times with combinations of both. Not every sexual experiance was totally satisfing every time or turned out the way it started, good or bad, but sensing where my wife was emotionally allways was there and sometimes you just had to agree to back away untill it got straightened out, (no pun intended)

Its possible that your H is living in that intimacy killer, "Comparison" where he feels the need to compare his sexual exploits with all the hedonists in the world. Maybe that insecurity bred into society and fed with our own lusts of envy and insecurity we already possess as human beings has taken over.
The world is full of images of women who suggest that they want us and would do anything for us including let us abuse them for our pleasure. Possibly that is feeding his fantasy.

It is that selfish desire to be worshipped by our wives and/or that belief that we will be when we get married that gets men into the "not being satisfied" behavior of abuse and the porn industry preys on that.

Just to be fair, The insecurity of being loved and admired by Husbands can be overblown by women as well and become selfish to the point of being loved and admired by everyone they know and seeking that to the point outside of intimacy with thier mate. It would be a whole thread to start that one lol, because it does NOT mean they will sleep with others nessesarily for approval, but its another side effect of comparison and "looking for love in all the wrong places".

Its no doubt that he is abusing you with this insistance that you either perform for him or you are not worthy of being married to him. Its too bad that he doesn't see he is abusing himself and losing the chance to appreciate you for the human being you are. Your adversion to anal intercourse is normal for most women and unless you want to become someone who in thier mind connects the abuse you suffered to desire you will have to remain in the place of what I would call healthy anyway. JMO. There are those who relate rape and sodomy to sexual fufillment but to me that is something in thier mind that was somehow attached to stimulation and they have become victims. You have dodged that bullet. Grats.


If your H has become so desensitized to intimacy and caring for how you feel then you need to let him go, or lay down the law so he can get help. Don't let this hurt you anymore.

Amanda start a thread if you need to talk about this and want help in getting your marriage healed.

Amanda, I dated someone like your H. He had never been married, traveled a lot for work, so porn became his companion. He had a walk in closet that looked like a video store. Pretty much right off the bat, once our relationship became physical, he wanted to watch it together. Before him, I had been with my ex H for about 10 years and occassionally we watched it, but never as part of our intimacy. What this man was wanting, was to watch it DURING intercourse. I did that with him once, and the entire time he watched the screen, did his thing and it was never about/with me. There was no connection, no intimacy, just a release for him. I am pretty sexually aggressive (meaning I like a lot of it), my drive much higher than his, but the way he went about it was such a turn off. I never felt wanted or needed or that he cared for me in any way. When I explained to him that it was not "my thing" and that I wanted things to be spicy, but with each other, not a TV screen. I am not sure he even knows how to have it any other way. He watched porn for so long that he NEEDED it to be like it was on TV. He asked me to engage in a 3some after only being together a couple of months. He hounded me for anal sex. At times he would "pretend" to be joking and physically put it there while I was saying no. Our relationship was brief.

I am appalled that your H would want a D because you do not haev anal sex. Given your abuse history, it is truly appalling to hear that he is dong this to you. You deserve so much more. That to me, is not love. I am sorry you are dealing with that.

A book:
"Still Sexy After All These Years"

http://books.google.com/books?id=Ok...=0CBkQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

OG_LOU,
I see you can read that book, or at least the first chapter of it online. Have you read it? Has your wife read it? Just curious about the reactions. It seems to be written for women.

Hey, I think sexuality after 50, or 60 or whatever, for men or women, is like the rest of their health:

Expectations - you first have to think that you are going to be active and vigorous. When you are 25 or 35, you have to visualize yourself doing all these active things at age 50, 60, 70 and 80, or you surely will not be trying to do them.

Self-esteem - taking care of yourself makes you feel confident and more full of energy. If you don't think you are desirable, how can you think your spouse really loves you? They must just be desperate for a cheap thrill, and you are available. That's the kind of DJs floating around in a lot of people's heads.

Continuity - if you were doing something you cannot do well anymore, then do something else. Maybe you were playing basketball but decided that was too risky for a broken knee or ankle, so you take up more swimming. What did you really like to do when you were young, or always want to do? Ride horses? Well, go take riding lessons together, then maybe do something ambitious like a pack camping trip out West.

-------------------
Lou,
It seems your biggest peeve is your wife just sitting around and not doing more things with you. We were falling into that rut, when I decided to get proactive and take my marriage off autopilot. I got her to brainstorm some RC time. We started small and cheap, local weekend trips to towns we used to just drive through, to see things we had bypassed before. We agreed to do this once a month, and my wife really got into picking out places. I could tell she was happier than she let on, because sometimes she would come home and cook up a day trip with some friends to show them the neat shops or museum we had seen.

All that got derailed by sickness and caring for relatives 19 months ago, but I am going to try to get it going again. Step 2 will be a bigger trip to some city she has never seen.

Retread I read several forums and when I see something interesting on one forum , I post links on the other forums I read.

No, I didn't read that book, just some of the online text, but have read similar books. W reads 0 relationship books. She started reading Robin McGraw's (Dr. Phil's W) book but I don't know if she finished that book.

My frustrations with my W are all related to low energy and what energy she does expend goes towards her 8 to 12 various pets. The pets almost always come before anything else, sometimes even before the grandkids.

Also, it seems if it isn't her idea, she won't try anything either solo or with me. I am not about to verbally talk her into much of anything as I have in the past. If something didn't go the way she wanted and wasn�t easy, it was up to me to make it go smooth for her. That process killed any enjoyment for both of us. I don�t remember any activities that worked out well for her.

I know it goes against the "Love Busters" book but sometimes/most of the time if I want to do something I do it without my W. I always ask if she would like to do something I am interested in doing, hoping she will go with me or even like going. I don't push, BTDT with bad results. Lately she doesn�t want to go out with me for lunch so I go alone and bring something home for her. I also cook most of the meals and do laundry. I work PT and my W retired early.

I have so few activities compared to people I know, a few people refer to our house as "dullsville" so it isn't like I do a lot of things. I can listen or participate in many activities other people like as long as I can keep up with them.

Our life is closer to couch potato than I like to admit. That is why I want to do some new things and some things I used to do. W? pets, TV and naps.

Lou