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Lexxxy, I was just worried about lisa's well being...she slit her wrists, I didnt know if she could handle the Plan A...she was lbing and having AO, that is not a good Plan A...If she can handle Plan A it is best for her to save her Marriage.....If she cant do it without the AO and Lbing, then it is detrimental to her and her marriage...
Sorry, I will let you vets take over now....
BW me-41 WH -39 DS - 9 married 12 Yrs together(?) 18 yrs when A discovered DDay aug 2007 found MB dec 2007 Moved out april 2008 still seeing OW Plan B Okay I fixed the ages, it was looking screwy. 
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I am trying so hard to help lisa, but really how can she do a plan A when all he does is wants to have a single life? Party meet other woman etc? When he comes over it is just a fix for him, he'll get his fix from lisa then go back home and meet other woman and do what ever he feels like.
So what would be the best thing for her right now? Still have him come by and get his "fix" from his W?
I don't know, what do you guys think?
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Lisa --
I'm sure both you and he have said things in the heat of battle that you later regretted.
Chalk up your "no contact with me" as the same thing.
Take a break from him. And use that time to LEARN about the marriage builders concepts. So that the next interactions you have with him will suit YOUR PLAN and YOUR GOAL.
You've got to de-escalate the drama.
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Obviously the first step is for Lisa to take an honest assessment of the state of her marriage pre-affair.
What are her husbands TOP EN's? Are there valid complaints that he had that she could address? Are there some things she wants to change?
She needs to make HERSELF the top priority right now.
Exercise, eat healthy. Do her counseling. The marriage doesn't matter if she is falling apart.
Read here. Learn the concepts. Start there.
Do not stress about what "he" is doing. He's a mess.
We'll worry about him later.
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I have already done 3 out of those 4 things and I am continuing to do them I have lost about 25 lbs since this started, I am in counseling 3 times a weeks and have instituted new plans for my kids regarding chores. Plus I ordered the LB work book and book Get Surviving An Affair. You NEED this book.
He also told me that everything he was doing was only because he wanted to stay friendly that it didn't mean anything, for me not to take it as he wants to be back home and that he had basically stopped calling and texting because he didnt want me to have mixed signals... that he only was calling and texing me to answer.... that is very correct he did stop doing those things after his therapist told him to. This is very typical wayward behavior. Your answer should always be along the lines of "I am your wife, not your buddy or friend" or "I do marriage, not divorce" or even just a friendly "that's nice...want a cookie?" In other words stop taking his words seriously! Wayward are even more confused than the you are.
He was very clear that all he was doing was because he wants to be friends and that I misunderstood his intentions that he is trying to leave me alone but I wont let him have his space so we can both move on.
I wanted to do plan A but its very hard when someone doesn't want you to contact him and comes around but is distancing himself from you. He is having an AFFAIR, of course he wants to distance himself from you. That didn't stop him from inviting you to go for a drive, mow your lawn or invite you on vacation, did it? He is wayward...he is confused. rinse repeat rinse repeat
He told me today he will do whatever I want he just doesn't
want to hurt anymore or for me to hurt anymore but he knows he doesn't want to be home now and because of yesterday doesn't know if we can get past this
I told him to stop all contact he told me he only was coming over because i asked him to and that he doesn't know what he wants. You can still apologize for losing your cool. You can tell him his affair and continued attempts at contact hurt you. You cannot (at this point) DEMAND or yell at him to stop it. It is counter effective to do so.
Yesterday what lead to the meltdown was me confronting him about going on her face-book page to get his fix. and that because of my AO the chance of him coming back are almost none now and that he felt we should just break it off permanently... Again, S T O P
Before he realized what i had done because i hid it from him he told me we should just break it off and he will get the rest of his things out and in the future if we are meant to be together then we will get back together..... After he found out he is just as confused I was the one to tell him to cut it off
Faith
me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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Oh and BTW, giving your kids chores is not "fun". I suggested you do FUN things with your kids and when you feel you can control yourself...invite your WH to join. If he says no, say ok and go on and have FUN!! Next time invite him again. Keep home a welcoming, warm place. You look good, smell good and smile!
That is the carrot of plan A which you are lacking right now. Exposure is part of the stick. You have exposed so you are doing ok there.
Faith
me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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Obviously the first step is for Lisa to take an honest assessment of the state of her marriage pre-affair.
What are her husbands TOP EN's? Are there valid complaints that he had that she could address? Are there some things she wants to change?
She needs to make HERSELF the top priority right now.
Exercise, eat healthy. Do her counseling. The marriage doesn't matter if she is falling apart.
Read here. Learn the concepts. Start there.
Do not stress about what "he" is doing. He's a mess.
We'll worry about him later. Yes, Lisa needs to fix Lisa first.
Faith
me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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May 13th: he tells me he is having second thoughts about moving out cause he doesnt know if its the right thing. Can he stay and have a separation within the house but I am not allowed to question him in any way while he is doing the in house separation. If this isn't a man rubbing an affair in his wife's face, I don't know what is. This led to the fighting that led lisa to superficially slash her wrists. This is not someone who should suffer through Plan A for one minute longer. She has tried long enough and his cake-eating and cruelty have gone on long enough. Everybody's got their limits and I think lisa has reached hers. If you are really not sure, lisa, then call the Harleys and get their take on this.
Me, BW
WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
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I think Lexy was right I will ask him to take a couple of weeks for us to relax and keep contact to a minimum in order for me to take care of myself!
I will start the LB book which I ordered because I felt I needed that one big time! Also I couldn't afford to buy SAA and the LB so I made a choice! Does anyone have a used copy they would be willing to lend me?
***************
Me BS 34
WH 36
D-Day 5/1/10
Entering plan A 6/1/10
3 Kids
No longer an army of 1
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Your doing great lisa! We are here to help you, remember to fix you before the marriage, and make sure when you guys do talk its only about the kids, no more fighting if you have the urge to argue hop on MB and vent it out heh heh, we all love vent chatting!
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May 13th: he tells me he is having second thoughts about moving out cause he doesnt know if its the right thing. Can he stay and have a separation within the house but I am not allowed to question him in any way while he is doing the in house separation. If this isn't a man rubbing an affair in his wife's face, I don't know what is. This led to the fighting that led lisa to superficially slash her wrists. This is not someone who should suffer through Plan A for one minute longer. She has tried long enough and his cake-eating and cruelty have gone on long enough. Everybody's got their limits and I think lisa has reached hers. If you are really not sure, lisa, then call the Harleys and get their take on this. I wish I could but I am financially strapped right now and cant really afford anything other than maybe one book at a time! I was working on myself and it would go great for 3 or 4 days and then I would either catch him lying or find out some other deceitful thing and it would send me into an AO My biggest problem which I am trying to fix is AO and DJ! I am so confused the advice is so conflicting! I think I will ask for space and then regroup in a week or 2
***************
Me BS 34
WH 36
D-Day 5/1/10
Entering plan A 6/1/10
3 Kids
No longer an army of 1
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Mulan -- I would agree except that she never implemented Plan A, much less suffered through it....
She never understood the concept of Plan A. Never eliminated lovebusters. And never figured out what her husbands EN's are.
There was no Plan A. Much less a long-suffering-one.
What you described is yet another conflicted WH who wanted his cake. We see these all the time. Wants to enjoy both married and single life. Wants to have a wife and still be free to chase women. Wants all the comforts of home, but not the responsibility of being a husband. He's a garden variety wayward. Nothing special.
I don't see any face-rubbing in your quote. Just another cake-seeking wayward.
Lisa may have reached her limit. Thats for her to decide. But she keeps saying she wants to save her marriage. If she wants to do that, Plan A needs to be done.
Going to Plan B without fixing any of the problems, without understanding the concepts, without demonstrating a willingness to change, without understanding the plans -- is pointless.
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I think Lexy was right I will ask him to take a couple of weeks for us to relax and keep contact to a minimum in order for me to take care of myself!
I will start the LB book which I ordered because I felt I needed that one big time! Also I couldn't afford to buy SAA and the LB so I made a choice! Does anyone have a used copy they would be willing to lend me? Keep to this thought, Lisa. See if your library has SAA for you to borrow. I agree that LB is an important book for you. I am currently reading it and have the workbook. I can tell you that it explains Dr. H's concepts really simply and in easy to understand terms.
Faith
me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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Mulan -- I would agree except that she never implemented Plan A, much less suffered through it....
She never understood the concept of Plan A. Never eliminated lovebusters. And never figured out what her husbands EN's are.
There was no Plan A. Much less a long-suffering-one.
What you described is yet another conflicted WH who wanted his cake. We see these all the time. Wants to enjoy both married and single life. Wants to have a wife and still be free to chase women. Wants all the comforts of home, but not the responsibility of being a husband. He's a garden variety wayward. Nothing special.
I don't see any face-rubbing in your quote. Just another cake-seeking wayward.
Lisa may have reached her limit. Thats for her to decide. But she keeps saying she wants to save her marriage. If she wants to do that, Plan A needs to be done.
Going to Plan B without fixing any of the problems, without understanding the concepts, without demonstrating a willingness to change, without understanding the plans -- is pointless. I think you are correct about me I tried in a half backed way to do plan A but never implemented it I just let me emotions get to me! He is in a I will do whatever you want right now because of his guilt! Maybe its not the best thing but I am going to use it to my advantage and ask for a couple of weeks of space keeping contact to a minimum in order to pull myself together. THen I will go on vacation and start plan A again! He did tell me his biggest issues are my AO, DJ, and just plain overreacting to everything he sais!
***************
Me BS 34
WH 36
D-Day 5/1/10
Entering plan A 6/1/10
3 Kids
No longer an army of 1
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Faith
me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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Atta-girl!
Take a time out and re-group.
Go to the "basic concepts" tab at the top of this page, and start learning everything you can about the MB strategies.
Make a commitment to yourself that your family vacation is going to be the best one you've all had!
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From What Are Plan A and Plan B? Let me quote from "Surviving an Affair:"
You may think that after a spouse willfully chooses a lover (over the betrayed spouse), there would be no hope for marital reconciliation, but that's not true. While there is no hope for reconciliation when the affair is underway, as soon as the affair is ended, reconciliation is definitely possible. And almost all affairs end sooner than most people think they will.
But for the betrayed spouse, waiting for the affair to end seems like an eternity. The wayward spouse can't seem to make up his or her mind -- one moment committing to the marriage and the next moment committing to the lover. To help a betrayed spouse survive that painful period of vacillation -- the time it takes for an affair to die a natural death -- I recommend two plans. If the first plan (plan A) is unsuccessful in separating the wayward spouse from the lover, the second plan (plan B) is followed until the affair is ended. This sequence -- plan A followed by plan B -- represents the most sensible approach to handling a wayward spouse's inability to decide between the lover and the betrayed spouse. Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands. These three Love Busters not only ruin any effort to reach a negotiated settlement, but they also make the betrayed spouse much less attractive to the wayward spouse. Instead of encouraging total separation from the lover, the anger, disrespect and demands of the betrayed spouse make the lover appear to be the only one who truly cares about the wayward spouse. They literally throw the wayward spouse into the arms of the lover. In general, a betrayed spouse's effort to encourage the wayward spouse to end the affair should address all the root causes of the affair, and offer a solid plan for marital recovery. It should not be one-sided, however. The plan should make the wayward spouse and the betrayed spouse equally responsible for following the overall plan. So, to avoid an indefinite period of suffering while a wayward spouse vacillates between spouse and lover, and to avoid rewarding the selfish behavior of having needs met by both spouse and lover, if plan A does not work within a reasonable period of time, I recommend plan B.
Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery. In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible -- love is not restored, resentment is not overcome, and there is a very great risk for another affair. Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B. Lisa, Do you have a group of people around you that can help you cope and deal with the emotions of this trying time in your life? (Family, friends, a pastor or spiritual adviser?) I know that for me, having folks that I could talk to, that didn't suggest that I have my wife drawn and quartered or submerge her in a bathtub full of hydrofluoric acid helped me keep my own emotions in check. In addition I began to journal and wrote out my feelings and frustrations, a practice I kept up for over a year into recovery. If you want your husband you simply can't make his life as much hell as you can manage and expect him to want to return to you and attend counseling with you. Why would he want to return to a life of misery? Plan A is supposed to show the WS the BEST side of the BS. It should demonstrate a willingness to meet emotional needs of the WS as well as to take the feelings of the WS into account. And I KNOW it isn't fair... Nobody said it was FAIR... It SUCKS... But consider this, you won him once before and you can win him again. You just can't win him back by making him miserable. I am NOT suggesting you just let everything pass and let him do whatever he wants. I am telling you that if his last memories of you before a Plan B, which I frankly don't think you can do any better than you can do Plan A, are of you screaming at him or threatening him or showing him that you are totally unstable (no matter that his actions contributed greatly to that) then he is not likely to ever want to see you again once he too gets the peace of Plan B. Dr Harley strongly suggests that a BS see a doctor regarding antidepressants. For you I would highly recommend as well that you find some individual counseling to help you control your emotions. If you can regain control, you MIGHT be able to save your marriage but if you don't you are likely to lose your children as well! Your emotions are all over the map. I get that. BTDT and got the scars to prove it. But you have no control over him or anyone else for that matter. The only person whose actions you can control is yourself and to be honest, you don't seem to be very successful at that right now. Get some support for yourself. Take a break from trying to force him to change his actions and realize that you will never undo what has been done no matter what you do. Unless you can demonstrate that you want him home, he won't ever come home and unless you can get yourself into better emotional shape, you stand a huge risk of having your children taken from you. Now if you want him to pay for what he has done, hire a lawyer, a bulldog with a big bark and even bigger teeth and take him for everything he ever earned. But if you want to save your marriage, get your own emotional state under control even if you have to call friends or family over to help you with the kids and house for a while. Please get yourself some help... This is way beyond the scope of this forum...We can help with Plan A and Plan B and offer advise and encouragement, but you need more than we can offer right now. You need someone to hold you accountable for your own actions and to give you comfort that this board just doesn't seem to provide in great enough quantity for your situation. Get some help before it's too late... Mark
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Lisa, for every AO, you make the OW look better and better to your WH.
In trying to control your WH, you are giving away control of yourself.
Plan A is about working on YOURSELF...to become the woman, wife, and mother that you want to be. It is about creating a warm and happy home for your family...making it a place where everyone in your family WANTS to be.
Your WH needs to have hope that the two of you CAN have a happy marriage, and your AO are destroying any possibility of his having that hope.
Get on ADs, give them time to work, and if you become angry, do NOT take it out on your WH. Vent here, and follow the Plan A advice. 3-4 weeks is not so very long.
YOU CAN DO THIS!!!
You just have to make up your mind to do it!
"Your actions are so loud that I can't hear a word you're saying!"
BW M 44 yrs to still-foggy but now-faithful WH. What/how I post=my biz. Report any perceived violations to the Mods.
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You have some wonderful vets helping you now...they know much more about recovery than I...so I dont want to confuse you, listen to them....They know their stuff, We are all here for you okay...Please, first off take care of yourself.
BW me-41 WH -39 DS - 9 married 12 Yrs together(?) 18 yrs when A discovered DDay aug 2007 found MB dec 2007 Moved out april 2008 still seeing OW Plan B Okay I fixed the ages, it was looking screwy.
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I agree with all of the helpful advice about doing a GREAT Plan A. You can do this if you can get your reactions to your WH's actions under your control. I read some things on the internet before I found MB that I found very helpful. It was about how every event in neither good nor bad. Think about that for a minute. The event only holds the emotion that the observer of that event places on it. Here is the email I received one day. It is by a man named Larry Bilotta. Let me tell you a story that will PROVE to you, without
a doubt, that an event has no meaning...
A farmer lived with his son raising horses and vegetables in
the days of ancient China. One day the son broke his leg.
The townspeople expressed their sadness by saying "You must
be very distressed about your son's leg, for now you must
work the farm alone."
The farmer replied, "Maybe, maybe not."
As the son's leg was healing, the Emperor declared war and
drafted all the young men for battle, but the farmer's son
was rejected because of his broken leg.
The townspeople heard about this and said to the farmer,
"You must be very happy about your son's condition for it
saved him from going to war!"
The farmer replied, "Maybe, maybe not."
As the son limped around the farm doing his chores, he
accidentally left the gate open one night and all 100
horses ran away.
The next day, townspeople came out and said to
the farmer, "It is so sad that you lost all your livestock.
Now you will make very little money."
The farmer replied "Maybe, maybe not."
News came to the farmer that the war was over and the
Emperor decided to hold a lottery and redistribute all
the livestock.
The farmer drew the long straw and received 500 head of
horses. The town's people rallied around him and said,
"You must be very happy now that you have prospered so
richly!"
...and what did the farmer say?
The farmer knows something that few people will ever
understand. Events themselves have no meaning except
the meaning you give them.
The Chinese farmer decided that he would not let his
emotions carry him high or low.
He simply controlled what he could, stayed calm and let
events take their course.
He did not let events control him because he knew a
secret: Events have no meaning until they are "inside you".
With this idea in mind, hopefully you will be a little more
reluctant to label any event that takes place as being good
or bad.
Approach events as the Chinese farmer does: "Maybe, maybe not." It is HARD NOT to react. It SUCKS. The thing is, as hard as Plan A is, Plan B is HARDER. I have been told(and truly believe) that recovery is harder still. Get your emotions in check. Devise your plan, and you will see how much better you feel.
BW(Me)aka Scotty:37 DSx2: 10,12 DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09 Plan B Dec18/09 Personal R in works Scotty's THING  Newly Betrayed click herePraying for walls and doors. Thanx MM “Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.” ? Maya Angelou PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION THANK YOU
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