My husband of 18yrs just moved out he told me that he wanted to separate because he was sick and tired of all the fighting and that he felt he needed space. Two days later I found out he had an emotional affair with my BF , she stated it was only friendship but he admitted he felt they had so much in common and that if they kept it up that it could have lead to something more. I knew we had some issues and that he was depressed. But this was a shock to me seeing as for my birthday in March and valentine�s day he sent me letters saying he loved me and couldn�t imagine his life without me. He stated he wanted a separation and space to get his head together May 1st and in a matter of 3 or 4 weeks we have completely come apart.
I knew he was depressed but I didn�t know it was due to this! I believed it was work related and because he doesn�t like where we live. He also stated he had resentments towards me for making him choose me over his brother. What happened was his brother was living with us I was 8months pregnant and has a 3 yr old his brother left drugs and cigarettes where she could get them and I caught her after she ingested about 5 cigarettes. His brother was constantly breaking basic house rules and at that point I had had enough. I asked him to make him move out or I would. It was a very stressful pregnancy but he did not respect my house or rules. He asked him to leave at which point he moved into his dads house which he then got kicked out of and his grandfathers after getting arrested to which my husband had to go bail him out. Unfortunately he landed in jail and died 5 months later. My husband said he forgave me but apparently he still resents me for that. He feels I made him choose between us which was not the case since we still wrote him and provided basic necessities while in jail.
We also had to file bankruptcy after we moved to PR due to poor financial management on my part as well a non steady paycheck on my part. Again he said he forgave me for keeping it from him until it was too late but he never quite let it go.
He has suffered from depression due to his hating his job and where we live. I have suggested we move but he doesn�t see it as possible. I told him I would get another job so he could go to School but he also said it was impossible. He thinks he is a failure! He also is very reserved and the more he kept inside the more i pushed to get him to opened up by fighting. We have become somewhat nasty and cold towards each other. I just gave up trying to get him out of the rut. He has lost an alarming amount of weight as well.
He also feels he can�t satisfy me sexually as I want to have sex with him every chance I get. He said he feels he held me back which is not true he actually put me through college by working 2 jobs. He also said he is no longer attracted to me because I have gained weight. He did say he still in love with me but the love he feels has diminished. I am desperate to try to get us back on track but he is going to individual counseling to see why he is so unhappy! He even told me he has everything a man should want but he is not happy! I think he feels unfulfilled due to his hating his job! What do I know right!
We also have 3 kids and they are angry and feel abandoned by him. I have started counseling but have found all they want is for me to move on! I feel desperate , alone , and feel like my life is over! At the height of all this I contemplated harming myself even though I snapped out of it after several minutes I am horrified I could even think that way! As of last nite he is angry and tell me I am pushing him away with all the fighting and the fact I cant get past all the dishonesty. I found out he had a second cell from my son which he denied even when I caught him with it.
He tells me he needs to let go of me so he can make a choice. I know the affair has ended but I am angry he wont make a choice if he wants us to work or not. All he keeps saying is I dont know. He tells me letting go is part of his process that he doesnt want to separate himself more than he has but he doesnt want to give me mixed signals as per his therapist! He told me he doesnt want me to write him off or to completely break it off but I need to move on and if i have to tell my self its over then he has to respect that! Can some one help me formulate a plan of so I can overcome his resistance to trying to save the relantionship? I need guidance and help!
Help me please!
Desperately wanting to save my marriage!
Lisa...welcome to MB...
I'm really glad you're here and so sorry for the circumstances.
Would you please consider clicking "Notify" and asking the moderators to move your post to "Surviving An Affair" Forum here on MB? Also, please consider editing your post and breaking it into paragraphs. Responding posters may have difficulty in selecting your text to quote in their responses, as well as keeping their place in trying to read.
Well, "they" is definitely "me"...I'm older, have older eyes.
My heart goes out to you and I remember the pain, fear, anger and frustration...the feelings of abandonment, replacement and rejection. All real and I'm sorry you're having to go through this.
I know folks here can help you a lot...we've been there, we remember. When you edit and move your post, consider asking for help to formulate a plan (Plan A), figure out your steps and be supported and encouraged to take them.
One thing, for right now, stop your half of the fighting. Conflict is still a connection, better than Withdrawal, so understand it takes two to fight...you can listen and not refute, discount or DJ...that's not fighting.
Please read all you can on this website (the articles by Dr. Harley), and begin eliminating your Love Busters (LBs) right away...will help you a lot in understanding and experiencing your power again, which feels like is all in WH's hands, not yours.
I think buying a copy of "Surviving an Affair" would really help you right now. Studying, learning, helps with the coping in crisis...least it was for me.
It isn't. Pull it back to steady yourself, pick your goal, choose your plan and your steps and then do them. You're not alone.
LA
I am sorry your going through what your going through. I dont have much advice to offer but to suggest that his thread be put on the SSA forum .. it gets more exposure than here.
Unfortunately .. Welcome to marriage builders. You are in the right place to save your marriage. Make sure to read all the concepts here and dont tell your hubby about this place yet especially if you feel he may be in the affair right now.
Thanksfor the advice I do know he is no longer in contact with the person and I purchase the LB book and work book.. So I will se what happens from now on!
My husband of 18yrs just moved out he told me that he wanted to separate because he was sick and tired of all the fighting and that he felt he needed space. Two days later I found out he had an emotional affair with my BF , she stated it was only friendship but he admitted he felt they had so much in common and that if they kept it up that it could have lead to something more. I knew we had some issues and that he was depressed. But this was a shock to me seeing as for my birthday in March and valentine�s day he sent me letters saying he loved me and couldn�t imagine his life without me. He stated he wanted a separation and space to get his head together May 1st and in a matter of 3 or 4 weeks we have completely come apart.
I knew he was depressed but I didn�t know it was due to this! I believed it was work related and because he doesn�t like where we live. He also stated he had resentments towards me for making him choose me over his brother. What happened was his brother was living with us I was 8months pregnant and has a 3 yr old his brother left drugs and cigarettes where she could get them and I caught her after she ingested about 5 cigarettes. His brother was constantly breaking basic house rules and at that point I had had enough. I asked him to make him move out or I would. It was a very stressful pregnancy but he did not respect my house or rules. He asked him to leave at which point he moved into his dads house which he then got kicked out of and his grandfathers after getting arrested to which my husband had to go bail him out. Unfortunately he landed in jail and died 5 months later. My husband said he forgave me but apparently he still resents me for that. He feels I made him choose between us which was not the case since we still wrote him and provided basic necessities while in jail.
We also had to file bankruptcy after we moved to PR due to poor financial management on my part as well a non steady paycheck on my part. Again he said he forgave me for keeping it from him until it was too late but he never quite let it go.
He has suffered from depression due to his hating his job and where we live. I have suggested we move but he doesn�t see it as possible. I told him I would get another job so he could go to School but he also said it was impossible. He thinks he is a failure! He also is very reserved and the more he kept inside the more i pushed to get him to opened up by fighting. We have become somewhat nasty and cold towards each other. I just gave up trying to get him out of the rut. He has lost an alarming amount of weight as well.
He also feels he can�t satisfy me sexually as I want to have sex with him every chance I get. He said he feels he held me back which is not true he actually put me through college by working 2 jobs. He also said he is no longer attracted to me because I have gained weight. He did say he still in love with me but the love he feels has diminished. I am desperate to try to get us back on track but he is going to individual counseling to see why he is so unhappy! He even told me he has everything a man should want but he is not happy! I think he feels unfulfilled due to his hating his job! What do I know right!
We also have 3 kids and they are angry and feel abandoned by him. I have started counseling but have found all they want is for me to move on! I feel desperate , alone , and feel like my life is over! At the height of all this I contemplated harming myself even though I snapped out of it after several minutes I am horrified I could even think that way! As of last nite he is angry and tell me I am pushing him away with all the fighting and the fact I cant get past all the dishonesty. I found out he had a second cell from my son which he denied even when I caught him with it.Last night I called him because I was locked out of the house. I had to call him 6 times then when he answered he was very irritated and trying to get me off the phone. Also it was unaturally silent in the background.He rushed me off the phone because at that point my daughter finnaly heared my door punding and came to open the door. I had a weird feeling he wasnt where he said he was I drovw down there to find him gone. He then told me he had gone to the bar with friends and told me he was turning around. Only he got dropped off like 2 or 3 blocks away so I couldnt see who he was with. He said he didnt want me fighting infront of his friends but I know its because he doesnt want me to know who he was with.
He tells me he needs to let go of me so he can make a choice. I know the affair has ended but I am angry he wont make a choice if he wants us to work or not. All he keeps saying is I dont know. He tells me letting go is part of his process that he doesnt want to separate himself more than he has but he doesnt want to give me mixed signals as per his therapist! He told me he doesnt want me to write him off or to completely break it off but I need to move on and if i have to tell my self its over then he has to respect that! Can some one help me formulate a plan? I need guidance and help!
Help me please!
Desperately wanting to save my marriage!
Lisa, I am sorry that this has happened to you and your family. Adultery is EXTREMELY CRUEL. Welcome to MB. This is a SAFE place. It is also the best place you could find yourself in this sitch.
Have you read all of the material on here?
You should start
HERE If you have any questions about anything you read, just ask. We will be glad to help you.
Lisa
Welcome to Marriagebuilders. I am sorry that you find yourself in need of this resource, but there are people and tools here who can help you.
I moved your thread here as requested.
Good luck and God bless you.
First of all, welcome and I'm sorry you're here. The most important you need to realize is that the A is more than likely continuing. No one has secret cell phones unless they have a secret person they're calling.
Your WH must have worn himself out, coming up with all of those
reasons to be unhappy with you lame justifications for having an A! I got tired just reading them! And I could just shake him to putting this A on you! You are in no way to blame for his A.
Tell us more about your "bf". Is she married? Children?
Your H has more than likely lost a lot of weight in order to look 'buff' for his affair partner. I wouldn't necessarily put it down to depression or stress. I'm not saying he isn't depressed, he may well be - lots of people in A's are depressed because they know on a level that what they're doing is wrong, and it plays havoc with the moral part of their brain that may still be functioning.
Start by reading the articles on this site. Make sure you go to the link that Scotland gave you. You're in the best place you can be. We'll help you.
Lisa,
The affair is not over. You know that right? Also, he did not move out of the home because of just an emotional affair with your friend.
I am sorry. Do you have a way to verify that they are still in contact, like cell phone records etc? Can you have someone go by there to catch them together?
I am sorry, my opinion maybe, but there is more to this than he is telling you. Your friend and your H are traitors and it is an ongoing PA.
Snoop some more for evidence, but you will have to expose to everyone and ask for help saving your marriage.
Give us an update as to where he is.
SWW
Lisa, could you please click notify and ask the mods to combine your threads? Thanx
1. Gather evidence, emails, phone bills, text msgs, etc
2. EXPOSE EXPOSE EXPOSE!! Emails, FB, to Friends, family, his friends his family, your BF friends, her family EVERYONE!!!
She is married and have 2 children she even told me she wants to save her marriage to him!She has not separated from him or anything. I don't know if the affair continues but at this point I am so discouraged I just want to give up! I love him but he is cleaver as to how he goes about his things! And no he isn't buff he looks sick he is so thin! He has always suffered from depression and it runs in his family. I know he is being dishonest and what am I supposed to do. He went on to even tell me its not about her its about us and that if it hadn't been her it could have been anyone! I asked him to leave me alone and to give me the house keys but he refuses to do both!
Lisa, you need to do Plan A first if you want to work the programs and try to save your marriage. Your WH was actually telling you a bit of truth in the fact that if it hadn't been her it would have been someone else. Even though he didn't know he was telling th truth then, he was right. ANY husband chasing woman would have done for him.
Have you read all of the material on this site? Is there any questions you have? We can help you.
Click on the thread in the first post that I posted to you and read it from beginning to end, clicking on all of the links contained within. Ask us any questions about MB and how to translate it into your own sitch.
Yes your next plan would be to be in Plan A, and while you are in plan A SNOOP SNOOP SNOOP, to make sure they are still not contacting each other. Phone bills, emails, FB, etc.
Stay calm, you can do this! As long as you follow the plan and the support you have here we know you can do it
Have you exposed this A? Have you told the OWH yet? If not then I would do so. Keep snooping and be in Plan A, just concentrate on that if you are too overwhelmed.
Lisa,
Stop fighting with him. That is rule number one. Stop it today. You cannot save your marriage by fighting all the time.
When you are angry or upset, you need to do something else - right now, you need to be in Plan A. Read on this website about how to do this. You can express your ideas and concerns to your husband without FIGHTING! As a grown woman, it is possible to be calm and cool and say what you have to say.
Your husband is NOT THE ENEMY. He is someone you love, and you want to be married to. Talk to him like you want there to be PEACE between the two of you.
Express your ideas with LOVE in your heart - come to him with love - speak with love - speak with kindness. Avoid loud and hateful words, and you will see a change in a matter of hours and days, not weeks. You will immediately feel better about yourself, too.
Your husband needs to see a doctor, by the way.
He is right, the affair is not about the OW. It is about the situation in your marriage, the needs that the two of you have and the needs that you both need to focus on between the two of you. Look at your marriage, and look at how you are focusing.
Are you spending quality time with him in activities the two of you enjoy?
Are you two talking about things that are POSITIVE in nature, things that bring back good memories?
Have you been putting some effort into telling him about the things you like about him?
Also, you have some changes to make in yourself. One thing about your post that stood out to me was that you did not tell him about the financial problems until it was too late. The two of you need to be able to talk about these things - and if you keep secrets from him and do not include him in the things that are very important in the marriage, then you reduce him to the position below you. He is not below you - and his feelings may be that you cut him out of information, pushed him away. Think about this.....he may be feeling that you sense you are above him.
His statement that he feels he has held you back - this also tells me that somehow he feels that within the marriage he feels below you, or that there is a condition within the marriage that places him as "not equal" to you. Think about this, because it is very important information for you to work on.
Get yourself into Plan A, today.
Schoolbus
I actually have spoken to the OWH several times including today and he is keeping tabs on her too and he is also fairly certain that they have not been communicating. He is still trying to save that marriage but the OWH has issues with angry outbursts and he is abusive to her as she is to him. The Affair had been exposed to everyone friends and family as well as her H.
My husband still comes around everyday and my daughter asked me today since he has been here all day cutting grass and even washed my car "If daddy is not with you anymore mom why is he here so much" I can see she believes he is not here to see her and her siblings. He has always been a great father and this just about broke my heart!
I ask myself the same question! If he doesn't want to be with me then why all the mixed signals and all the time wanting to be here around us! I try to separate myself by going to the gym around the time he gets out of work but he always seems to be waiting around till I get back or text-ing me about my plans for the day!
As for the fact that he feels inferior to me I can honestly say I probably have acted towards him in that manner. Even if I have done it without any intention its not very nice to do that to someone you love. I just ordered love busters and the workbook! I think I need to go through that first.
I feel like he has tasted some freedom and is enjoying that freedom which is why he is so wishy washy!
I seriously need to implement plan A but I'm not sure how seeing as I believe the affair is over but now what!
Answering Scottlands questions:
I am 34 and WS is 36
Our children are 14, 11, and 8
1st marriage and have been together for 18yrs
the AP was my "best friend"
The affair lasted about 6 to 8 weeks
Had suspicions for 6 weeks but found out checking my phone record
Have not ordered surviving the affair but ordered love busters with workbook
Plan A is for making him see that what he has at home is better.
Read the list of do's and don't in BT in trouble's "My thread" towards the end.
If you are trying to ignore him you are NOT doing plan A
Can someone help me find the mentioned thread.
I think I just messed up! I told my husband I saw the OH today. He was furious! We got into it and though I did not yell or argue I accused him of walking on out on us.... me and the kids...
He also asked me to take a ride with him a friendly ride because he didn't want me taking it the wrong way and I got mad....
I told him it would be better if he wasn't here so much so I could move on! He started crying and said whatever if I wasn't fine with him spending time here then I should have said so.
I asked him why he was willing to throw it all away and he said when people get to this point sometimes thing get thrown away! I asked him what he expected to find out there!
He told me he knew how much he had to lose and that he probably wouldn't find anyone like me but it was a chance he needed to take in order to figure out why he felt like he didn't love me the same anymore!
Its like im on the fast track to total isolation!
HELP I NEED TO REPAIR DAMAGE!
Set up times for you and him to be with the kids. Show him that no matter what happens, they are the most important thing. Make plans for family fun. Take some pressure off of it being the two of you.
Let him know you want the family as a whole
Did you read through the entire thread that I linked for you ih my first post? Did you click on all of the Blue links to the other threads? There is a lot of info, I know. Believe me, it is WELL WORTH IT.
You are trying to make yourself into the best YOU that you can be. You will become the woman that your WH married.
So, has this affair been exposed? That is part of Plan A.
He told me the depression is beginning to lift now that he is out of the house! I also just found out he is actively looking for an apartment because he cant stay with his dad anymore.
He also asked me to go on vacation with him and the kids to put our feeling aside and go fo the kids sake. I initially said no but I am thinking maybe I should go?
-----------
Me 34
WS 36
Married 18yrs
D-day May 3rd
A started march 2010
Ended May 2010
Lisa if you think the A is over then i would go with him and the kids, it is a perfect opportunity for you to be the BEST you can be and show him how much better things can be as a whole family.
I honestly DO NOT know what plan you are in?? Are you in Plan B? doesn't seem so, are you in Plan A? Doesn't look like it either. So I can't help you I'm sorry, the only advise I can give you is you need to READ EVERYTHING on this site, because I am totally lost on what you are trying to do.
I honestly DO NOT know what plan you are in?? Are you in Plan B? doesn't seem so, are you in Plan A? Doesn't look like it either. So I can't help you I'm sorry, the only advise I can give you is you need to READ EVERYTHING on this site, because I am totally lost on what you are trying to do.
I have been reading everything on this site and I am a little bit overwhelmed. As of yesterday I was not doing either plan. I am going to start implementing plan A starting today.
I have been going to counseling in order to focus on the things about myself I want to change. I also have been going to the gym everyday.
The thing I have been unable to do is stopping the fighting and the relationship discussions. I can kind of see him starting to withdraw because of this.
He came over today and I helped him do his laundry and then asked him if he wanted to watch a video to which he agreed. I asked him to sit with me which he did and as we watched we actually enjoyed the movie.
He sees me flip flopping which just reinforces the fact that I probably will not change in his mind. I am bound and determined to do just that! This is a wake-up call that my life and marriage was not on the right path.
So I asked him to go riding with me today which is something he quite enjoys and he agreed so I know he isn't completely out the door yet. I told him just friendly ride so as to take the pressure off.
Wish me luck!
Just got back from ride and we had a great time. This is very painful! I am reminded of how much fun we could have and at the same time I know we are in such danger of failing!
I am 100% sure the A is over.
He is still in his I don't know if I love you mode and is enjoying the freedom of being separated.
I am still reading all the info on this site but plan A is in full effect. I am working on my part of plan A but I still am confused on how to meet his needs at this time since what he keeps telling me is that he needs time and space.
I am going to keep an open door policy with him for now. I am going to keep inviting him to do things on a friendship level and a family level to remind him of what we had.
-----------------------
Me 34
WS 36
Married 18yrs
D-day May 3rd
A started march 2010
Ended May 2010
Had a relapse last nite! I let someone make comments to me about my WH leaving the bar with his friends and some girls! I went crazy and had AO as well as DJ.
He told me again last night I am just pushing him farther away and that he doesnt want to come home untill he can figure out what he wants.
He told me I need to be rational about everything! That I need to be able to calm down and stop to think things through before I accuse him of stuff!
This is really hard! I want to stop the AO and DJ but seem unable to do so!
Back to starting plan A again!
I feel like I am self sabotaging! I should just stop talking to people who see him everyday. I know he is partying it up right now and it just hurts!
I am reading all the information on the website just having trouble applying the concepts due to my own problem controlling my anger and judgements!
They keep telling me he is playing me for a fool!
HELP!!!!! ANYONE I NEED ADVICE!
-----------------------
Me 34
WS 36
Married 18yrs
D-day May 3rd
A started march 2010
Ended May 2010
Lisa,
Sorry you are here. Have you read the Carrot & Stick of Plan A (LInk below). The problem I see from your last post is that you are focusing totally on him and what he is doing. You need to change the focus onto you. You will feel more confident if you have a plan to follow. The plan is to help you get through whatever the end result may be. Stick to your plan. If you want to heal the wound, you have to take care of it. By having AO and DJ you are picking at the wound and bleeding. You will be the one left to bleed, not your WS. Focus on you so you can heal, no matter what comes.
Pep's Carrot & Stick of Plan A
Wait! Is he out of the house? Are you in Plan B? If he is not coming back to you I suggest you go visit a lawyer and start protecting yourself when he literally leaves! Have you exposed yet? if not THEN DO SO!! He is lieing to you, he is cheating on you, and what are you doing? Sitting there and letting it happen? Do this.
1. Find a lawyer and see him FAST!
2. Gather ALL the evidence and show this to your lawyer.
3. EXPOSE this A!! Tell everyone why he left the house!
4. Start protecting yourself NOW!
It doesn't not sounds like your husband wants to come back to any time soon, so you can sit there and watch your husband cheating on you, or you can do these things so he has the pressure to make his decision faster, either come back to you and save his M, or finally set you free from all the anguish. Which do you want??
Plan A is only recommended for about 4 weeks if you can handle it. You should consult a lawyer to see what your rights are in your state. And yes, you should expose to the people who will support and help you try to save your marriage.
Affair Exposure 101
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=407164#Post407164
This is a post of mine from a different thread, thought you might need to know about this as well.
This is what I know to be true for WS (For being one myself)
1. We want to avoid our family because it will be easier for us to justify what we are doing (the A) when we see them happy, we get angry, upset, jealous, resentful, etc. SO the reason why he doesn't want to see you and the kids is because of this reason. Same reason why we don't like it when our BS is nice to us, because we feel bad on what we are doing, so we just get angry, that is why PLAN A is sooo important! So that the WS feels guilty all the time, and when the fog lifts they will realize that the best thing for them is right in front of them, their FAMILY!!)
2. We are very unhappy in our marriage because we know we are the ones ruining it. I think its soo hilarious that the WS will blame the BS for their unhappiness. Even if he tells you that the A is over, he is lying, we lie, again to justify what we are doing, to convince our self's that the only thing that can help us become happy is to have an A, but the BIG OL TRUTH about that is the only reason why we are unhappy in our marriage is because WE ARE having an A, and it is addiction. Isn't it funny when you hear all these people who say "I haven't been happy for years!" but yet the only person who is making themselves unhappy is them self? So they think having an A will FIX it, and guess what? It only DEEPENS there unhappiness.
3. WS LOVES to blame their unhappiness to there BS, we think it is their fault for letting us find someone else, we will think of every little thing that our spouse has done to us that made us feel bad. Letting them know that these were the reasons why we had an A, but in reality it is just another lie! WS are very good at lying to everyone, we are the best lires, want to know why? Because we do the biggest lie there is, and that is WE LIE TO OURSELVES! We literally self sabotage our marriage and life! WS are very selfish, until that FOG lifts we do not realize it.
That is why I think there is a BIG RED FLAG when you tell us that your husband doesn't want to spend time with you or the kids, he's still in the A. How long will you get your phone bill? You really need to expose this A if you want your marriage to recover. I really don't think him being at his fathers is going to help either, you need to have him move back in ASAP! Why did he leave? Did you kick him out or did he leave on his own?
Lisa,
Sorry you are here. Have you read the Carrot & Stick of Plan A (LInk below). The problem I see from your last post is that you are focusing totally on him and what he is doing. You need to change the focus onto you. You will feel more confident if you have a plan to follow. The plan is to help you get through whatever the end result may be. Stick to your plan. If you want to heal the wound, you have to take care of it. By having AO and DJ you are picking at the wound and bleeding. You will be the one left to bleed, not your WS. Focus on you so you can heal, no matter what comes.
Pep's Carrot & Stick of Plan AThanks for this link !
You are right I am so focused on him its not even funny!
I am terrified of letting go because I cant imagine my life with out him. I have to understand he is confused and hurting as well.
We did have a conversation today about how he had been trying for years to tell me how my weight gain affected him, and how my constant nagging and fighting was making him feel like he couldnt do anything right. He also told me he feels like I cant control my AO or my DJ as well as he said I always try to see double meaning into anything he said.
He also told me today he feels like all this is just making his love feel less.
I guess I do need to refocus on plan A and realy control my lovebusters! I ordered the book and the workbook!
He does say he want to give us a chance and that he is trying. I should understand that he is trying!
As for his depression after reading all the colums on infidelity I realized his depression is lifting not because he is out of the house but because he is probably comming out of withdrawl!
Time to make some deposits in that LB!
Thanks
-----------------------
Me 34
WS 36
Married 18yrs
D-day May 3rd
A started march 2010
Ended May 2010
This is a post of mine from a different thread, thought you might need to know about this as well.
This is what I know to be true for WS (For being one myself)
1. We want to avoid our family because it will be easier for us to justify what we are doing (the A) when we see them happy, we get angry, upset, jealous, resentful, etc. SO the reason why he doesn't want to see you and the kids is because of this reason. Same reason why we don't like it when our BS is nice to us, because we feel bad on what we are doing, so we just get angry, that is why PLAN A is sooo important! So that the WS feels guilty all the time, and when the fog lifts they will realize that the best thing for them is right in front of them, their FAMILY!!)
2. We are very unhappy in our marriage because we know we are the ones ruining it. I think its soo hilarious that the WS will blame the BS for their unhappiness. Even if he tells you that the A is over, he is lying, we lie, again to justify what we are doing, to convince our self's that the only thing that can help us become happy is to have an A, but the BIG OL TRUTH about that is the only reason why we are unhappy in our marriage is because WE ARE having an A, and it is addiction. Isn't it funny when you hear all these people who say "I haven't been happy for years!" but yet the only person who is making themselves unhappy is them self? So they think having an A will FIX it, and guess what? It only DEEPENS there unhappiness.
3. WS LOVES to blame their unhappiness to there BS, we think it is their fault for letting us find someone else, we will think of every little thing that our spouse has done to us that made us feel bad. Letting them know that these were the reasons why we had an A, but in reality it is just another lie! WS are very good at lying to everyone, we are the best lires, want to know why? Because we do the biggest lie there is, and that is WE LIE TO OURSELVES! We literally self sabotage our marriage and life! WS are very selfish, until that FOG lifts we do not realize it.
That is why I think there is a BIG RED FLAG when you tell us that your husband doesn't want to spend time with you or the kids, he's still in the A. How long will you get your phone bill? You really need to expose this A if you want your marriage to recover. I really don't think him being at his fathers is going to help either, you need to have him move back in ASAP! Why did he leave? Did you kick him out or did he leave on his own?
He asked for a separation within the house but I was not allowed to question his commings and goings!
I told him I did not think I could handle that.
I also did not mean to imply he does not spend time with us he does he is at the house every day. Its at night he goes out to hang out.
The affair has been exposed to everyone including his family and mine as well as the OH and all of our friends.
I do beleive the affair is over even the OH is certain they are not communicating. I have been checking out phone bill and have not seen anything but I think he might have another phone not sure if its activated though.
Again he is saying it is because of our issues especially my AO and DJ that he beleives he doesnt love me anymore.
Should I get him back into the house even though he wants no strings separation?
-----------------------
Me 34
WS 36
Married 18yrs
D-day May 3rd
A started march 2010
Ended May 2010
Quick summary:
May 1st:He asks for separation because he doesnt know if he loves me the right way
May 3rd: I discover affair after looking into phone bill
May 7th: I expose to all friends and family as well OH
May 8th: He is out of town visitng mother and I call him to tell him the husband know and has evidence of their cheating he then call the OW to tell her
May 9th: He returns home and tell me he still wants to leave that he never did anything with her it is a frienship that got a little out of hand but he started to have feelings for her
May 13th: he tells me he is having second thoughts about moving out cause he doesnt know if its the right thing. Can he stay and have a separation within the house but I am not allowed to question him in any way while he is doing the in house separation.
I say no way you need to leave
Since then we have been constantly fighting and I am discovering more lies
I have confronted the OW she is telling me she wants to save her marriage that she does not have feeling for him and that if he did well she did not return them.
He has been gone for 3 weeks about but has been comming every day to see the kids and on the weekends has been spending the entire day if not the majority of his day at the house.
He is calling me less often and separating himself because his therapist told him he cant give me mixed signals.
As of last night he still doesnt know if he loves me the right way and he told me years of AO, DJ, and just all around nagging has diminished his love. He wants space and time so he can figure this out for himself.
He did say his depression is lifting but I think its becasue he is comming out of withdrawl stage.
When i asked what he was getting out of all those phonce calls and texts he told me it was just a frienship that got out of hand.
She obviously was giving him the attention and understanding care that he felt I was not or have not over the years.
I want to implent plan A but now Im confused? Some say plan A should last 4 weeks to 3 months. Should I tell him to come home and accept that I cant ask him about his wereabouts?
-----------------------
Me 34
WS 36
Married 18yrs
D-day May 3rd
A started march 2010
Ended May 2010
This is what I would do, I would have him come home, don't ask him any questions where his whereabouts, be nice, loving, everything you need to do in order to have a successful plan A. If you want to ask where he was say something like this.
"where did you go tonight with your friends, want a cookie?"
no more love busters
Let him know how much you love him, and actually SHOW it to him, actions speaks louder then words.
If the A really IS over (which I doubt it is) then eventually he will come around.
Keep attending MC
DO NOT have him convince you that these texts and this so called "attention" was because you weren't giving him any, that is another lie.
When he upsets you, you gotta stay calm, put on your happy plan A face.
You have to do plan A before you do plan B, cause it looks like you are trying to do plan B and Plan A at the same time! And its not working, gotta do this step by step.
First thing first, MOVE HIM BACK HOME
This is what I would do, I would have him come home, don't ask him any questions where his whereabouts, be nice, loving, everything you need to do in order to have a successful plan A. If you want to ask where he was say something like this.
"where did you go tonight with your friends, want a cookie?"
no more love busters
Let him know how much you love him, and actually SHOW it to him, actions speaks louder then words.
If the A really IS over (which I doubt it is) then eventually he will come around.
Keep attending MC
DO NOT have him convince you that these texts and this so called "attention" was because you weren't giving him any, that is another lie.
When he upsets you, you gotta stay calm, put on your happy plan A face.
You have to do plan A before you do plan B, cause it looks like you are trying to do plan B and Plan A at the same time! And its not working, gotta do this step by step.
First thing first, MOVE HIM BACK HOME
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I will think about it becuase that is going to be difficult for me to have him comming and going as he pleases.
I do not know how to figure out if the A is still going on?
I mean I tried to think about ways of spying on him but since he is out of the house I do not know how?
I was tempted to hire a private investigator but cant afford it really. I have read a couple of threads on how to spy on him but he is very cleaver about covering his tracks.
If I tell him to come home no questions asked he would have to sleep in the extra room Because I can not have him in my room right now.
Also my kids are aware of why he is out of the house! If I let him back in but then have to implement plan B wont that hurt my kids more in the long run?
-----------------------
Me 34
WS 36
Married 18yrs
D-day May 3rd
A started march 2010
Ended May 2010
If you are worried go buy a GPS for his car so you know exactly where he is when he leaves.
But in order for you to do a Plan A he needs to move back in, I know it will be hard for you, but you can't do a plan A if he is not home.
Try it for 4 weeks, and if nothing changes and you find more evidence that he is in another A or seeing the OW, then go straight into plan B.
You can't do a in home separation I do agree on that. Explain to me a little how a "in home separation" works?
You can't do a in home separation I do agree on that. Explain to me a little how a "in home separation" works?
We would live in separate rooms and he is allowed to come and go as he pleases no questions asked no explanations needed.
Lisa,
If you want to save this marriage, you must go to Plan A and stay there.
Stop LBing. No AOs or DJs.
Look good, smell good, be good when he is around. Keep the house clean.
Work on the changes FOR YOURSELF.
He is trying to do things around the house..............because he WANTS TO COME HOME.
HE WANTS TO COME HOME.
HE WANTS TO COME HOME.
You are making it very hard for him, and he is telling you that!
When you yell at him, jump on him, and fight with him, you are not a safe and loving person to be with.
Control yourself - stop trying to control him. You cannot, and never will, control him. What you need to see and understand is that each and every time you meet him with love and talk to him with love you build love between the two of you.
You build what he is looking for.
He is looking for safety - he is looking for home - he is looking for the place he remembered as "love".
Give that to him.
For now, you must do a Plan A if you want to save the marriage, and if he is going out you deal with that as it comes.
IMHO your husband is there every day because it is where he WANTS to be.
Make the door swing open and he will walk in BY CHOICE.
SB
I agree. Also, while in plan A you would act like you would act if you were in a happy healthy marriage. I say, "act" because you won't feel like doing it at all.
Lisa,
If you want to save this marriage, you must go to Plan A and stay there.
Stop LBing. No AOs or DJs.
Look good, smell good, be good when he is around. Keep the house clean.
Work on the changes FOR YOURSELF.
He is trying to do things around the house..............because he WANTS TO COME HOME.
HE WANTS TO COME HOME.
HE WANTS TO COME HOME.
You are making it very hard for him, and he is telling you that!
When you yell at him, jump on him, and fight with him, you are not a safe and loving person to be with.
Control yourself - stop trying to control him. You cannot, and never will, control him. What you need to see and understand is that each and every time you meet him with love and talk to him with love you build love between the two of you.
You build what he is looking for.
He is looking for safety - he is looking for home - he is looking for the place he remembered as "love".
Give that to him.
For now, you must do a Plan A if you want to save the marriage, and if he is going out you deal with that as it comes.
IMHO your husband is there every day because it is where he WANTS to be.
Make the door swing open and he will walk in BY CHOICE.
SB
-------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for all the advice but I have crossed a line of no return! I found him on the OW facebook page and I went ballistic!
I told him if he didn't stop trying to contact her or look for information about her I was going to go to see her husband and expose him again! I know this AO was a waste of time..... this has always been my issue and what I am in therapy for!
He then told me if i went over there since he hasn't had communication with her he would take all his stuff and it would be over! That told me right there he is still either in the A or having feelings for her.
He also told me we had this conversation yesterday about you accusing me instead of asking me about stuff.
We continued to argue and he said you are making the chances of me coming home virtually impossible and maybe it would just call it quits and move on I think that is the best.
I dont want that all i want if for you to come back home. He then said I already told you I cant do this.... what am I going to come home for all this arguing and fighting?
He said he was bringing the kids over and I told him to keep them for a while.
I was very upset about the whole thing and just went to the garage and sat next to his car. He came home with the kids and they were worried when they couldn't find me. My daughter saw me and I told her to tell him to go and to take her brother and sister inside.
I then went on to do the stupidest thing ever I slashed my wrists very superficially but enough to mark myself. Then he came out and i didn't want him to see what I did because then he would really think i was insane
I have to tell you I feel like I am going crazy. I am a very strong willed person and I cant believe I even went to that extreme.
My kids were crying because I didn't want to see anyone and it was a very bad situation.
He is sooo angry with me right now as he should be. My friend talked to him and he told her he doesn't want to come home he just has been doing what he could to make the transition easier for me.
She told him to leave me alone and to stop coming over to do things and to watch movies and to do laundry. If you don't want to be with her then just cut it off.
He told me this was the last straw for him that we are broken up and we had to move on from there.
I stayed at my friends house and he stayed at our house with the kids
I have reassured my children i will be ok but I know what happened can never happen again I will not do this to them
He told me this morning he is now afraid to leave me because he thinks I will really cause myself harm
I made an appointment with my therapist for today and I will get through this but I know that my actions are almost unforgivable and that I have pushed him over the edge of no return.
Thanks for all the advice but I just imploded any chance I had to save my marriage!
Please do not judge me to harshly!
I see no hope now but just total separation and divorce
It very sad that I was unable or just unwilling to be patient and stick to plan A!
Until I got to the point where you slashed your wrists, it seemed like gaslighting and bullying to me on his part. I was reading the screen thinking that this is all par for the course and had you read ALL of the info on this site and other people's threads, you would see some of the same situations over and over again.
I am not a mental health professional and I am incapable of helping you through this type of episode. If and when you are ready to implement MB Plans into your marriage, I will be here to help you. Until then, take care of yourself and get some good help IRL.
Lisa, I am so sorry y you are goin thru all this...i attempted suicide also, so I know how debilitating the pain is. My WH treated and said a lot of the same things as yours, scotty is right....its bullying and gaslighting...
What you are going thru is extremely traumatic and he is making it worse by the way he treats you....I am glad you are going to see a therapist, talking to one helped me... some AD's would help too...I just read your last post and my heart breaks for you...
Just remember, your kids...they need you.....and dont let your WH blame you for his leaving, its all on him....I mean he dumped all this on you and then gets angry at you for finally not being able to take it?!!!! PLease take care of yourself, I dont know if you can handle a Plan A....its very emotionally draining.
Your kids need you okay...I was in your shoes and I promise it does get easier, the pain will lessen significantly over time, okay?
Until I got to the point where you slashed your wrists, it seemed like gaslighting and bullying to me on his part. I was reading the screen thinking that this is all par for the course and had you read ALL of the info on this site and other people's threads, you would see some of the same situations over and over again.
I am not a mental health professional and I am incapable of helping you through this type of episode. If and when you are ready to implement MB Plans into your marriage, I will be here to help you. Until then, take care of yourself and get some good help IRL.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the understanding and for the advice! I still want to do plan A but I am not sure I can handle plan A
I told him this morning that we can not continue on this path and that I felt maybe total comm blackout except for the things that had to do with the kids was necessary for me to start the healing process.
I told him I still loved him and would love for him to come home but not if he was doing it because he felt he had to in order to make sure I didnt do anything stupid.
He said he needed time and I was unwilling to so that and that he didnt know the answers right now.
He also told me he will do whatever I want because he doesnt want to hurt anymore and he doesnt want me hurting anymore. That If I want to cut him off then he will have to continue taking it one day at a time and that he will try to respect my wishes but that the choice was ultimately mine. He also said if he knew in his heart if he wanted it to be over that he would have told me already but that he is unsure, but now all he wants is to keep me safe.
I am at a loss on where to go from here honstly I do not know!
I felt I had read alot of the posts on this site and had a good grasp on things but yesterday was just tooo much for me to even bear, let alone comprehend I hope my therapist can help me.
-----------------------
Me 34
WS 36
Married 18yrs
D-day May 3rd
A started march 2010
Ended May 2010
Lisa, it sounds to me like you are going through too much emotional torture to continue like this. I am not alarmed by your superficial wrist-slashing because I think you're trying to get his attention, not harm yourself. Please tell me if I'm wrong about that! If you feel that you are going to harm yourself you need to contact your therapist immediately.
Having said all that - if you are at a point where you are damaging yourself physically something needs to change. I would think that change needs to be this business of your H coming and going and doing all of this cake-eating that he's been doing.
I know you feel the A is over, but I disagree. I believe there is still contact in some way, and I suspect he's bought another phone.
I don't think it's healthy for you or the kids to continue in Plan A - your AO, LBs, etc, are not helping you maintain a good one. He is also emotionally abusing you by using your home as a base for his comings and goings. That is unfair to you. He needs to cut bait or fish. He is trying to get you to agree to what amounts to an open marriage, by living in another bedroom and running his own schedule with no regard for you. He wants it all. And it looks like you're giving it to him, while chastizing him for it.
I'd like to hear some other opinions, here - Scotty, stillhere, Mel - time for Plan B?
Have you seen the phone bill yet? I know for a fact they are still contacting, you need to confirm that and expose this A.
I'm sorry about all that has happened, but you can still save this marriage, when you expose this A he will act 4 times MEANER then he was last night so you need to be prepared.
Have you seen a lawyer yet? You need to start protecting yourself and the kids.
I want to say no more love busters, but we have already mentioned that to you.
You need to stay calm, I know this will be the hardest thing to do, but if you truly want to save your marriage then you need to stay calm.
I'm glad you are going to a therapist, to help you.
If he is not willing to go home, then you need to go straight into plan B as soon as you found evidence that they are still contacting each other.
1. Find your evidence on the phone bill
2. expose this A to EVERYONE including the OWH
3. Write your plan B letter and give it to him.
I'm not sure this is the best thing so if anyone has any different opinion then please let her know.
After you do those things, he will be VERY upset he will say mean and nasty things to you, everything you can possibly think of, but YOU HAVE TO BE STRONG, stay calm. Want to know what I said to my husband when he exposed my A?
"I might have ruined the marriage, BUT YOU ENDED IT!"
I said that while I kicked, punched, screamed at him, I probably said other mean things, threatened him etc. But you have to expose this A if you want your husband back.
Here is what a Plan B letter looks like I got this from newpetals thread.
[i]Dearest WH,
After much thought, I have made a decision on the road I need to follow. I am so sorry our marriage has come to this. I recognize my part in our relationship that created an environment where your affair with POSOW was possible.
I have learned better ways to resolve conflict between us. I want to create a new life for both of us that meets both our needs and creates a loving home for our children. We can not do that while you are still in contact with POSOW.
Until then, I have chosen to avoid seeing you or talking to you. IM has agreed to be our intermediary, and she will help in making it easy for you to see your children, as we discussed. Our only contact should be in the case of emergency about the children. Please let me know when you will be back in town and I will arrange to have your bag by the front door. You can return while I am at work to pack up the rest of it.
Please understand my decision to separate from you this way. It is too painful for me to live with you any longer as long as you are also with her. I ask that until you are ready to end your affair with POSOW and focus on our marriage and family, you leave our home.
I look forward to the day when we can begin to rebuild our marriage and begin the rest of our lives together. I want nothing more than to be your partner through life, and your best friend and confidante in all matters. We can have a stronger marriage built on trust, love, honesty, and teamwork.
I loved you from the day I met you and I continue to love you right up to this moment. I hope for and look forward to a time when we can begin a new marriage with each other.
You can change the personal things if you need, but here is an example of a plan b letter.
Lisa, when you exposed how did you do it? Does everyone know? Including your kids? All relatives, employer if it applies, etc?
Definitely expose it to everyone...and it does sound like the A is still on...and I do agree that Plan A might be to much for your emotional stability right now...Plan A is great if you can handle it...but if you cant then it will actually be detrimental to R and your mental health...
Lisa, when you exposed how did you do it? Does everyone know? Including your kids? All relatives, employer if it applies, etc?
Yes the children know, I also told all of our friends and family members inlcuding his family and mine. His family told me to leave him and let him go that if its meant to be he will come back. They do not work together she works for children and Youth and He works for Fedex.
I do know he has a secret phone I saw he even gave it to me to show me it wasnt activated but then he took it back.
The OWH said he is 100% positive that they are NC but I dont know if he knows for a fact
So what is your next step? What is your next Plan?
So what is your next step? What is your next Plan?
I dont know If I am strong enought to do plan A. I think plan B shouldgo into effect for my own mental health.
Then that is what I would do, did you read that plan B letter?
You have to make sure when you in plan B is to NOT contact him or have his try to Contact you, you need to find someone who can help you with this, if he needs to talk to you then he needs to talk to that person first.
You need to write a Plan B letter, do you have the SAA book, if not there are some samples on the notable posts thread in the list of forums...
You need to have an IM, who do you think would be good at doing that for you?...If you find someone that would be able to do it..there is an intermediary training thread that you should have her read or go over with her...she needs to completely understand how the stuff needs to be filtered...
Did you read up on Plan B yourself?...the best Plan B is complete darkness...which I think will be a godsend for you right now...to protect you from his harshness and stupidity....
I don't think it's healthy for you or the kids to continue in Plan A - your AO, LBs, etc, are not helping you maintain a good one.
lisa, there are very few who can keep up Plan A when a WS is rubbing the affair in your face. Believe me, he knows what he's doing. He knows exactly how to push your buttons to get you start screaming and raging. It's what he wants, because then he can blame YOU and tell everyone that is wife is just crazy and he has no idea why.
In his mind, your "bad behaviour" excuses his cheating and makes everything your fault, even though it's his lying, cheating and deliberate cruelty that's causing your extreme upset and outrage.
He is also emotionally abusing you by using your home as a base for his comings and goings. That is unfair to you. He needs to cut bait or fish. He is trying to get you to agree to what amounts to an open marriage, by living in another bedroom and running his own schedule with no regard for you. He wants it all.
Absolutely. Having it all is the goal of every WS, or else they would just leave at the start. But it IS emotional abuse of the first order and he knows bloody well that it drives you screaming crazy. But as I said, he's fine with that because then he gets to be the poor poor victim of his crazy mean insane wife.
I went through very much the same thing. Did not actually attempt suicide, but understand the feeling. It's not for "attention". It's because you'll do anything to get the pain to stop.
I ended up in a voluntary psych ward for five days. It was no big deal, really - not like what it sounds. They just put you in a stress-free environment and start/adjust your meds. That's when I went on ADs and stayed on them for another year.
The ADs killed enough of the pain (that's really all they do) so that I could disconnect from XWH and just sit on a couch and do nothing while he packed up and moved out.
I totally agree that it's way past time for Plan B. Get this cruel, selfish nasty man out of your life so he can no longer abuse you and your children with a cheater's lies and neglect and disrespect.
Believe me, he's far more messed up than you are and HE needs to go.
He said he needed time and I was unwilling to so that and that he didnt know the answers right now.
He also told me he will do whatever I want because he doesnt want to hurt anymore and he doesnt want me hurting anymore. That If I want to cut him off then he will have to continue taking it one day at a time and that he will try to respect my wishes but that the choice was ultimately mine. He also said if he knew in his heart if he wanted it to be over that he would have told me already but that he is unsure, but now all he wants is to keep me safe.
You do know that this is all complete garbage, designed to keep you guilty and confused and dangling and hoping while he keep his affair going (and bides his time until he has both a wife and an OW again). Right?
If you haven't already, please get to your doctor or emergency room TODAY.
They can give you a prescription for antidepressants and you can get started on them, but they take a while to work (like, a few weeks).
They can also give you a prescription for an anti-anxiety med like Ativan which works right away (like, within the hour). Most people in this kind of situation use both for a while, as directed. That's what I had to do.
lisa, this has gone past the point where you can handle it yourself. Please get to the doc's office or the ER *right now today* to get some help for the pain and torment, just so you can function and not continue to suffer so badly.
Then go to Plan B and tell WH that he can come home if/when he thinks you and the children deserve a full-time relationship with him - that your family deserves a full-time husband and father and that as long as HE doesn't think you do, he no longer has a place in your home.
Please let us know how it's going.
Here is my plan B letter
---------------------------------------------------------
WH
I am writing this letter because I can not possibly talk to you face to face right now. After much thought and soul searching , I have made a decision on the road I need to follow. I am so sorry our marriage has come to this. I recognize my part in our relationship that created an environment where your affair with OW was possible.
Yesterday was a low point in our life that I hope we never have to experience again. The pain of that experience was too much for me to bear. I need this time to heal myself and help the kids get through this experience.
I will have to learn better ways to resolve conflict between us. I want to create a new life for both of us that meet both our needs and create a loving home for our children. We can not do that while you are still undecided of your true feelings for me.
Until then, I have chosen to avoid seeing you or talking to you. Mom has agreed to be our point of contact, and she will help in making it easy for you to see your children, as we discussed. Please know that you should continue to see the kids as much as you want. You can call or text our daughter to see how they are and to say goodnight if you wish to do so. Our only contact should be in the case of emergency about the children. As discussed you will continue to give me the discussed amount weekly to pay for our bills. You can go home while I am at work on Friday to pack up the rest of your things.
I am very sad that you think you do not need therapy anymore because of the fact that we are cutting all communication. I know you said you were doing it for my sake to try to resolve our issues but you need it for you. I believe you need to keep going since it will help you deal with all of these things especially your brother's death. You need to resolve your issues surrounding his death if only for your own peace of mind.
Please understand my decision to separate from you this way. It is too painful for me to continue seeing you any longer as long as you are so unsure of what you truly want. When I asked you today if you wanted to come home and work things out you stated if you came home now it would be because you need to watch me not because you wanted to. Until you are 100% sure of what you want and that you truly want to start fresh and rebuild a new relationship and marriage you must stay out of our house. Our children need a full time father and I need a full time husband.
I look forward to a day when we can begin to rebuild our marriage and begin the rest of our lives together. I want nothing more than to be your partner through life, and your best friend and confidante in all matters. We can have a stronger marriage built on trust, love, honesty, and teamwork.
I loved you from the day I met you and I continue to love you right up to this moment. I hope for and look forward to a time when we can begin a new life together.
You don't waste words, do you.
I am starting a treatment plan with my therapist! She recomended some plans that would get me on some medication and such. I will discuss the particulars with her at our appointment.
-----------------------------------------------------
Me BW 34
WH 37
PLAN B in Effect 6/1/10
make sure your mom knows how to be an Intermeditary (IM). She will have to filter out all the crap your husband says and just give you pertinant information. If your husband says to her "Tell my wife that Im angry, blah, blah, blah." She does not need to forward the info.
She should just give you things like when and where he will pick up the kids. That he is seperating finances..whatever is important. All the fog talk and lies she does not need to forward to you. This way you only get facts and no button pushing. It is the same in the other direction too. You only need to give your mom important info. Do not act like a couple of Middle school kids relaying messages through some person.
Suzie told Becky, who told TJ, that your a stupid face. It is not supposed to work that way.
Good. If your cannot get to your therapist today, please do not hesitate to go to a family-care doc or to the ER.
Oh, and please go back and edit your letter here to take out all the names.
Does anyone have a link to that thread of MelodyLane's about "how to be an intermediary"? There will be lots of good info there for your mom.
Basically:
If WH says or emails, "Tell lisa123prpe that when she's done having a tantrum, I'll talk to her. She is causing all the trouble here, you know. I wanted to stay and help her but she threw me out. I want to see the kids this Saturday and she should decide what time."
The ONLY thing your IM would give you is, "What time do you want WH to pick up the kids this Saturday?"
It's the IM's job to filter out all the garbage, like a spam trap. This protects you from any further cruelty and manipulation.
Please keep posting and let us know how it's going.
That letter was perfect!
You are doing great! Keep up the great work!
Also if you are afraid that he might sneak in the house to see you change the locks! Keep the old ones just in case
Hang in there lady! We are totally there for you!
Here is my plan B letter
---------------------------------------------------------
Tony
I am writing this letter because I can not possibly talk to you face to face right now. After much thought and soul searching , I have made a decision on the road I need to follow. I am so sorry our marriage has come to this. I recognize my part in our relationship that created an environment where your affair with ______ was possible.
Yesterday was a low point in our life that I hope we never have to experience again. The pain of that experience was too much for me to bear. I need this time to heal myself and help the kids get through this experience.
I will have to learn better ways to resolve conflict between us. I want to create a new life for both of us that meet both our needs and create a loving home for our children. We can not do that while you are still undecided of your true feelings for me.
Until then, I have chosen to avoid seeing you or talking to you. Mom has agreed to be our point of contact, and she will help in making it easy for you to see your children, as we discussed. Please know that you should continue to see the kids as much as you want. You can call or text DD to see how they are and to say goodnight if you wish to do so. Our only contact should be in the case of emergency about the children. As discussed you will continue to give me the discussed amount weekly to pay for our bills. You can go home while I am at work on Friday to pack up the rest of your things.
I am very sad that you think you do not need therapy anymore because of the fact that we are cutting all communication. I know you said you were doing it for my sake to try to resolve our issues but you need it for you. I believe you need to keep going since it will help you deal with all of these things especially person's child's? death. You need to resolve your issues surrounding his death if only for your own peace of mind.
Please understand my decision to separate from you this way. It is too painful for me to continue seeing you any longer as long as you are so unsure of what you truly want. When I asked you today if you wanted to come home and work things out you stated if you came home now it would be because you need to watch me not because you wanted to. Until you are 100% sure of what you want and that you truly want to start fresh and rebuild a new relationship and marriage you must stay out of our house. Our children need a full time father and I need a full time husband.
I look forward to a day when we can begin to rebuild our marriage and begin the rest of our lives together. I want nothing more than to be your partner through life, and your best friend and confidante in all matters. We can have a stronger marriage built on trust, love, honesty, and teamwork.
I loved you from the day I met you and I continue to love you right up to this moment. I hope for and look forward to a time when we can begin a new life together.
Ah. Here it is
This is good - delete your names online, though, so you're not identifiable on this website.
[
Absolutely. Having it all is the goal of every WS, or else they would just leave at the start. But it IS emotional abuse of the first order and he knows bloody well that it drives you screaming crazy. But as I said, he's fine with that because then he gets to be the poor poor victim of his crazy mean insane wife.
I went through very much the same thing. Did not actually attempt suicide, but understand the feeling. It's not for "attention". It's because you'll do anything to get the pain to stop.
Princess Di threw herself down a short flight of stairs when she was three months pregnant and was crying out to her POSH. It's heartbreaking. Please get ADs, Lisa.
Bumped the intermediary training school thread for ya, lisa...
Our only contact should be in the case of emergency about the children.
Hi Lisa,
I am sorry that you and your children are going through this. I would eliminate the above line from your otherwise very good Plan B letter. In a cake eating waywards mind, almost anything can be turned into an emergency. Make sure that your IM is well trained and let them make the call on what is an emergency. You do not need the drama.
God's Blessings,
Say
Wait a minute folks. Lisa has not done a good plan A. I know it seems he is rubbing the A in her face but she has a good shot at saving her M with the OW wanting to R her M.
Lisa, even if it is only 5 days you need to do a solid plan A and then go dark into plan B so you leave him craving the good times he spent with you.
ITA with FF. The only thing is, I don't know if Lisa CAN do it the way she is feeling right now.
ITA but Lisa has been unable to maintain Plan A for even 24 hours without AOs and DJs. She is destroying her WH's LB every bit as much as he is hers. His last thoghts of her will be the melt down and "suicide attempt" but she does not seem to have the heart or the self control for Plan A.
God's Blessings,
Say
Yeah it would be better, but I dont know if she can handle it emotionally and if she keeps AOs and LBs...it will just make it worse I think...
Saynomore -- I totally agree with you.
Plan B only works after an effective Plan A. They are to be done in conjunction with each other.
The idea behind Plan B is that you have given your wandering spouse a promise to meet their needs (the way they need them met) and have DEMONSTRATED the ability and COMMITMENT to doing so.
Lisa has not accomplished this.
A wandering spouse is not going to believe that life will be great at home because you SAY so in a LETTER. Lisa has been throwing lovebusters at her husband left and right.
Schoolbus is right -- he has been TRYING to come home. But you haven't made HOME a welcoming place to be.
Plan A doesn't have to be more than a few weeks. But it is a CRUCIAL part of the plans. You can't just SKIP it and move on to the more comfortable spot.
I'm glad you are starting AD's Lisa, hopefully they will allow you to act less emotionally.
You need to STUDY and LEARN. Learn about Lovebusters and how they drain the love your husband has for you. Learn about Emotioanal Needs, and how you need to meet your husbands.
I get the sense that you are here in a panic -- and you are not absorbing the WONDERFUL advice and tools.
I am so confused now?
I want to do plan A but I know he is hesitant because of everything that has happenned.
He tells me he wants some space and I told him I need no contact and I dont want to be friends right now! So now Im really stuck!
I cant take all that back!
I am suggesting Plan B moreso to protect you from WH...you are an emotional mess right now, I dont know if you can handle much more. I am worried about your emotional well being....but that is JMHO...others may think different.
So take a break for a week and re-group. Don't send the letter. Just REST. Get off his case. Stop stressing about what he is or isn't doing.
Get yourself into a better emotional state.
Spend the next week here READING. You will learn so much about marriage. And you will learn about how to be a better partner.
And start thinking about YOUR plan. Think about what you want -- and how to accomplish it. We can help you if you want your marriage and family restored.
Plan A is about you.
Plan B is about you.
lisa, I also agree with Plan B. Having a mental break with a suicide attempt is too much to deal with. Your WH has proved that he is capable of being very, very cruel. He will only use your anger and outrage against you - it's your punishment for daring to stand up to him. Don't give him any more ammo. Protect yourself.
I agree with Lexxy, take a rest for a few days, get on the AD's to allow you to get your mind ready for plan A. You need to leave him wanting MORE before going into plan B, Lisa.
I think his attempts have been good signs of his wanting to reconcile.
I already ticked him off by telling him I wanted to break things off and wanted no contact we went over the whole thing and he told me fine that he will leave me alone and not contact me or try to be friends.
I think this is such a mess at this point.
I think my best course would be to let sleeping dogs lie right now
We are supposed to be on a family vacation the week of June 14th and I should make my plan of attack for then.
Getting myself together for now and then going on vacation with them as a family.
What do you guys think?
Here is what I suggest at this point in time, Lisa...
1. Start taking care of yourself by eating right, exercising and getting on the AD's. Once you start to feel better physically the mental part will feel better too.
2. Get your home in order. What were your WH's complaints through out your M? Housekeeping? Finances? Whatever it was change for the good.
3. Do a personal inventory and start making yourself a better person. It could be going back to school, taking up a hobby...just do something to better yourself.
4. Do FUN things with your children. Once you start to feel better invite your WH to join you in a family activity. I would consider his invitation for a family vacation if you can control the AO's and DJ's.
Be proactive, Lisa. No matter the outcome, improving yourself is never a bad thing.
PEOPLE! Lisa can't do a plan A while H is not at home, he is literally messing with her head when he comes over then leaves again! He wont move back home he has already told her that, she can't do a plan A so she is FORCED to go into plan B immediately, if she doesn't then she will be confused.
How can she do a plan A if H is not at home? He is messing with her mind can't you see? That is why plan B is so crucial for Lisa right now, because every time she see's him it hurts, then he leaves and does what ever he wants and gets away with it because Lisa doesn't know!
The only chance to save her marriage is to do plan B.
Tell me then, who has done a successful plan A while the husband isn't living with them and he comes over every day, tortures her, then leaves again??
SR, yes she CAN do a plan A with him out of the house. I don't see him torturing her. I see him reaching out and getting his hand bit off. Yes, she is entitled to be upset by his A but AO's and DJ's will just keep him away. When he offered the friendly ride he was reaching out. When he mentioned a family vacation for the kids sake he was reaching out. Lisa has to expect some cake eating while in plan A.
Lisa, I know you are getting conflicting advice but please listen...you are not ready for plan B. If you leave him with this bad taste in his mouth it will be that much harder to recover the marriage.
Oh and btw, SR plan B is not to "save the marriage", plan B is to save the last remaining bit of love the BS has for the WS after doing plan A which greatly dimishes the BS's LB.
Absolutly she can!!!!! Many here have done stellar Plan-A with a WH not living at home. I can't come up with a name right now because I don't have time to think on it.
It is not ideal but her WH is giving every indication that he is just as confused as she is about whether or not he wants to be home.
Lisa enforced a boundary by telling him that she could not allow him to live in their home with their children while living a single lifestyle. I think that she needs to use this time out to regroup and get herself under control mentally and emotionally. If he asks, she can very honestly tell him that she does not know what she wants and that now she is the one that needs tome.
Plan B needs to be planned for very carefully and even if she could manage just this family vacation after a break to prepare herself, then she might consider giving him the letter when she gets home and going into a very dark Plan B. Right now, her Plan B is very likely to lead directly to Plan D.
God's Blessings,
Say
Plan B needs to be planned for very carefully and even if she could manage just this family vacation after a break to prepare herself, then she might consider giving him the letter when she gets home and going into a very dark Plan B. Right now, her Plan B is very likely to lead directly to Plan D.
Excellent post, say!
I have heard of couples doing a plan A when the other S is away for work, military, army, etc.
So what should lisa do? If her H doesn't want any help, he stopped seeing the therapist, he even told her that he was only doing it for her, he even said he doesn't want to be reached out at.
Maybe you guys have a better plan for her I don't know, and yes he is torturing her emotionally.
Plan B is also to protect the BS from the WS abuse.....If you think you can handle it lisa, do what faithy says....that will be better if you think you can handle it....
Here is what I suggest at this point in time, Lisa...
1. Start taking care of yourself by eating right, exercising and getting on the AD's. Once you start to feel better physically the mental part will feel better too.
2. Get your home in order. What were your WH's complaints through out your M? Housekeeping? Finances? Whatever it was change for the good.
3. Do a personal inventory and start making yourself a better person. It could be going back to school, taking up a hobby...just do something to better yourself.
4. Do FUN things with your children. Once you start to feel better invite your WH to join you in a family activity. I would consider his invitation for a family vacation if you can control the AO's and DJ's.
Be proactive, Lisa. No matter the outcome, improving yourself is never a bad thing.
Repeating what I already posted.
I have heard of couples doing a plan A when the other S is away for work, military, army, etc.
So what should lisa do? If her H doesn't want any help, he stopped seeing the therapist, he even told her that he was only doing it for her, he even said he doesn't want to be reached out at.
Maybe you guys have a better plan for her I don't know, and yes he is torturing her emotionally.
I think this is the main thing. What can YOU handle, Lisa?
Good luck lisa!
You can do it!
Be strong!
You know I went back through this thread and there is no post indicating Lisa's WH is torturing her. Lisa, you have to pull yourself together. Separating will likely lead to D, especially if you leap into plan B right away. Again, I suggest you give yourself a few days on the AD's to calm down. It won't help if you AO and DJ your WH over and over. From your description, except for the brother problem, he has been a supportive H and even forgave you for the financial problems you said you created.
Look I understand where you are coming from. I was ONLY able to control my anger toward my H when I was on the AD's. It was too painful and I let my imagination run wild about his A which did not help matters.
You know I went back through this thread and there is no post indicating Lisa's WH is torturing her.
I know, I told her to get on here and post what he is saying and doing to her.
He is flaunting the A in her face...he is looking her up on facebook and then when she tells him to stop he says SHE is ruining any chance for them to recover and that he is not gonna stay if they are gonna argue...he is gaslighting her, I know that is normal for Plan A, but it is emotional abuse....
Sapphire -- I think you need to do more reading here.
People do Plan A without their spouse at home ALL THE TIME.
I would suggest that you have a thorough understanding of the plans before you advise someone on what they should be doing.
Faithful, you're right -- he was not shoving the affair in her face...Lisa was blowing up at him.
FF's advice is exactly right.
Calm down. Learn and prepare for your Plan A.
Get your emotions in order. Then show your husband the best wife he could ever want. For a few weeks. Then you will be ready to start making plans for Plan B.
Do you understand the lovebank concept? Do you understand how your actions are causing your husband to lose his love for you?
Do you understand that meeting his needs and avoiding the lovebusters can restore the love between you?
Right now you have the power to lead your husband back.
But you have to be strong, disciplined, and committed to doing this RIGHT.
By all means -- if you can't be good to him, its far better for you to stop seeing him and talking to him. Its better to have no contact than BAD contact.
So use some time to calm down and study Marriage Builders. There is tremendous information for you here!
Here is what I suggest at this point in time, Lisa...
1. Start taking care of yourself by eating right, exercising and getting on the AD's. Once you start to feel better physically the mental part will feel better too.
2. Get your home in order. What were your WH's complaints through out your M? Housekeeping? Finances? Whatever it was change for the good.
3. Do a personal inventory and start making yourself a better person. It could be going back to school, taking up a hobby...just do something to better yourself.
4. Do FUN things with your children. Once you start to feel better invite your WH to join you in a family activity. I would consider his invitation for a family vacation if you can control the AO's and DJ's.
Be proactive, Lisa. No matter the outcome, improving yourself is never a bad thing.
I have already done 3 out of those 4 things and I am continuing to do them I have lost about 25 lbs since this started, I am in counseling 3 times a weeks and have instituted new plans for my kids regarding chores. Plus I ordered the LB work book and book
He also told me that everything he was doing was only because he wanted to stay friendly that it didn't mean anything, for me not to take it as he wants to be back home and that he had basically stopped calling and texting because he didnt want me to have mixed signals... that he only was calling and texing me to answer.... that is very correct he did stop doing those things after his therapist told him to.
He was very clear that all he was doing was because he wants to be friends and that I misunderstood his intentions that he is trying to leave me alone but I wont let him have his space so we can both move on.
I wanted to do plan A but its very hard when someone doesn't want you to contact him and comes around but is distancing himself from you.
He told me today he will do whatever I want he just doesn't
want to hurt anymore or for me to hurt anymore but he knows he doesn't want to be home now and because of yesterday doesn't know if we can get past this
I told him to stop all contact he told me he only was coming over because i asked him to and that he doesn't know what he wants.
Yesterday what lead to the meltdown was me confronting him about going on her face-book page to get his fix. and that because of my AO the chance of him coming back are almost none now and that he felt we should just break it off permanently...
Before he realized what i had done because i hid it from him he told me we should just break it off and he will get the rest of his things out and in the future if we are meant to be together then we will get back together..... After he found out he is just as confused I was the one to tell him to cut it off
He's not doing anything that any other wayward might do.
He's having an emotional affair with someone and he's looking at her facebook page. Big deal. That is NOT flaunting the affair in her face. Unless he called her into the room to watch what he typed!
She simply busted him AGAIN contacting his affair partner -- and had yet another angry outburst.
Look, I'm not saying her anger isn't understandable. But it is counterproductive to what she says her GOAL is -- to fix her marriage.
He is flaunting the A in her face...he is looking her up on facebook and then when she tells him to stop he says SHE is ruining any chance for them to recover and that he is not gonna stay if they are gonna argue...he is gaslighting her, I know that is normal for Plan A, but it is emotional abuse....
stilly, that is plain ole wayward behavior of blameshifting and justification...it is not abuse. I know it FEELS like it to the victim (the betrayed spouse) but read the threads and you will see it is typical behavior and to be expected.
I know, I told her to get on here and post what he is saying and doing to her.
Sapphire -- do you know Lisa personally (in real-life) ??
You seem to have inside knowledge of what her WH is saying to her.
Lexxxy, I was just worried about lisa's well being...she slit her wrists, I didnt know if she could handle the Plan A...she was lbing and having AO, that is not a good Plan A...If she can handle Plan A it is best for her to save her Marriage.....If she cant do it without the AO and Lbing, then it is detrimental to her and her marriage...
Sorry, I will let you vets take over now....
I am trying so hard to help lisa, but really how can she do a plan A when all he does is wants to have a single life? Party meet other woman etc? When he comes over it is just a fix for him, he'll get his fix from lisa then go back home and meet other woman and do what ever he feels like.
So what would be the best thing for her right now? Still have him come by and get his "fix" from his W?
I don't know, what do you guys think?
Lisa --
I'm sure both you and he have said things in the heat of battle that you later regretted.
Chalk up your "no contact with me" as the same thing.
Take a break from him. And use that time to LEARN about the marriage builders concepts. So that the next interactions you have with him will suit YOUR PLAN and YOUR GOAL.
You've got to de-escalate the drama.
Obviously the first step is for Lisa to take an honest assessment of the state of her marriage pre-affair.
What are her husbands TOP EN's? Are there valid complaints that he had that she could address? Are there some things she wants to change?
She needs to make HERSELF the top priority right now.
Exercise, eat healthy. Do her counseling. The marriage doesn't matter if she is falling apart.
Read here. Learn the concepts. Start there.
Do not stress about what "he" is doing. He's a mess.
We'll worry about him later.
I have already done 3 out of those 4 things and I am continuing to do them I have lost about 25 lbs since this started, I am in counseling 3 times a weeks and have instituted new plans for my kids regarding chores. Plus I ordered the LB work book and book Get Surviving An Affair. You NEED this book.
He also told me that everything he was doing was only because he wanted to stay friendly that it didn't mean anything, for me not to take it as he wants to be back home and that he had basically stopped calling and texting because he didnt want me to have mixed signals... that he only was calling and texing me to answer.... that is very correct he did stop doing those things after his therapist told him to. This is very typical wayward behavior. Your answer should always be along the lines of "I am your wife, not your buddy or friend" or "I do marriage, not divorce" or even just a friendly "that's nice...want a cookie?" In other words stop taking his words seriously! Wayward are even more confused than the you are.
He was very clear that all he was doing was because he wants to be friends and that I misunderstood his intentions that he is trying to leave me alone but I wont let him have his space so we can both move on.
I wanted to do plan A but its very hard when someone doesn't want you to contact him and comes around but is distancing himself from you. He is having an AFFAIR, of course he wants to distance himself from you. That didn't stop him from inviting you to go for a drive, mow your lawn or invite you on vacation, did it? He is wayward...he is confused. rinse repeat rinse repeat
He told me today he will do whatever I want he just doesn't
want to hurt anymore or for me to hurt anymore but he knows he doesn't want to be home now and because of yesterday doesn't know if we can get past this
I told him to stop all contact he told me he only was coming over because i asked him to and that he doesn't know what he wants. You can still apologize for losing your cool. You can tell him his affair and continued attempts at contact hurt you. You cannot (at this point) DEMAND or yell at him to stop it. It is counter effective to do so.
Yesterday what lead to the meltdown was me confronting him about going on her face-book page to get his fix. and that because of my AO the chance of him coming back are almost none now and that he felt we should just break it off permanently... Again, S T O P
Before he realized what i had done because i hid it from him he told me we should just break it off and he will get the rest of his things out and in the future if we are meant to be together then we will get back together..... After he found out he is just as confused I was the one to tell him to cut it off
Oh and BTW, giving your kids chores is not "fun". I suggested you do FUN things with your kids and when you feel you can control yourself...invite your WH to join. If he says no, say ok and go on and have FUN!! Next time invite him again. Keep home a welcoming, warm place. You look good, smell good and smile!
That is the carrot of plan A which you are lacking right now. Exposure is part of the stick. You have exposed so you are doing ok there.
Obviously the first step is for Lisa to take an honest assessment of the state of her marriage pre-affair.
What are her husbands TOP EN's? Are there valid complaints that he had that she could address? Are there some things she wants to change?
She needs to make HERSELF the top priority right now.
Exercise, eat healthy. Do her counseling. The marriage doesn't matter if she is falling apart.
Read here. Learn the concepts. Start there.
Do not stress about what "he" is doing. He's a mess.
We'll worry about him later.
Yes, Lisa needs to fix Lisa first.
May 13th: he tells me he is having second thoughts about moving out cause he doesnt know if its the right thing. Can he stay and have a separation within the house but I am not allowed to question him in any way while he is doing the in house separation.
If this isn't a man rubbing an affair in his wife's face, I don't know what is.
This led to the fighting that led lisa to superficially slash her wrists.
This is not someone who should suffer through Plan A for one minute longer.
She has tried long enough and his cake-eating and cruelty have gone on long enough.
Everybody's got their limits and I think lisa has reached hers.
If you are really not sure, lisa, then call the Harleys and get their take on this.
I think Lexy was right I will ask him to take a couple of weeks for us to relax and keep contact to a minimum in order for me to take care of myself!
I will start the LB book which I ordered because I felt I needed that one big time! Also I couldn't afford to buy SAA and the LB so I made a choice! Does anyone have a used copy they would be willing to lend me?
Your doing great lisa!
We are here to help you, remember to fix you before the marriage, and make sure when you guys do talk its only about the kids, no more fighting
if you have the urge to argue hop on MB and vent it out heh heh, we all love vent chatting!
May 13th: he tells me he is having second thoughts about moving out cause he doesnt know if its the right thing. Can he stay and have a separation within the house but I am not allowed to question him in any way while he is doing the in house separation.
If this isn't a man rubbing an affair in his wife's face, I don't know what is.
This led to the fighting that led lisa to superficially slash her wrists.
This is not someone who should suffer through Plan A for one minute longer.
She has tried long enough and his cake-eating and cruelty have gone on long enough.
Everybody's got their limits and I think lisa has reached hers.
If you are really not sure, lisa, then call the Harleys and get their take on this.
I wish I could but I am financially strapped right now and cant really afford anything other than maybe one book at a time!
I was working on myself and it would go great for 3 or 4 days and then I would either catch him lying or find out some other deceitful thing and it would send me into an AO
My biggest problem which I am trying to fix is AO and DJ!
I am so confused the advice is so conflicting! I think I will ask for space and then regroup in a week or 2
Mulan -- I would agree except that she never implemented Plan A, much less suffered through it....
She never understood the concept of Plan A. Never eliminated lovebusters. And never figured out what her husbands EN's are.
There was no Plan A. Much less a long-suffering-one.
What you described is yet another conflicted WH who wanted his cake. We see these all the time. Wants to enjoy both married and single life. Wants to have a wife and still be free to chase women. Wants all the comforts of home, but not the responsibility of being a husband. He's a garden variety wayward. Nothing special.
I don't see any face-rubbing in your quote. Just another cake-seeking wayward.
Lisa may have reached her limit. Thats for her to decide. But she keeps saying she wants to save her marriage. If she wants to do that, Plan A needs to be done.
Going to Plan B without fixing any of the problems, without understanding the concepts, without demonstrating a willingness to change, without understanding the plans -- is pointless.
I think Lexy was right I will ask him to take a couple of weeks for us to relax and keep contact to a minimum in order for me to take care of myself!
I will start the LB book which I ordered because I felt I needed that one big time! Also I couldn't afford to buy SAA and the LB so I made a choice! Does anyone have a used copy they would be willing to lend me?
Keep to this thought, Lisa. See if your library has SAA for you to borrow. I agree that LB is an important book for you. I am currently reading it and have the workbook. I can tell you that it explains Dr. H's concepts really simply and in easy to understand terms.
Mulan -- I would agree except that she never implemented Plan A, much less suffered through it....
She never understood the concept of Plan A. Never eliminated lovebusters. And never figured out what her husbands EN's are.
There was no Plan A. Much less a long-suffering-one.
What you described is yet another conflicted WH who wanted his cake. We see these all the time. Wants to enjoy both married and single life. Wants to have a wife and still be free to chase women. Wants all the comforts of home, but not the responsibility of being a husband. He's a garden variety wayward. Nothing special.
I don't see any face-rubbing in your quote. Just another cake-seeking wayward.
Lisa may have reached her limit. Thats for her to decide. But she keeps saying she wants to save her marriage. If she wants to do that, Plan A needs to be done.
Going to Plan B without fixing any of the problems, without understanding the concepts, without demonstrating a willingness to change, without understanding the plans -- is pointless.
I think you are correct about me I tried in a half backed way to do plan A but never implemented it I just let me emotions get to me! He is in a I will do whatever you want right now because of his guilt!
Maybe its not the best thing but I am going to use it to my advantage and ask for a couple of weeks of space keeping contact to a minimum in order to pull myself together. THen I will go on vacation and start plan A again!
He did tell me his biggest issues are my AO, DJ, and just plain overreacting to everything he sais!
Atta-girl!
Take a time out and re-group.
Go to the "basic concepts" tab at the top of this page, and start learning everything you can about the MB strategies.
Make a commitment to yourself that your family vacation is going to be the best one you've all had!
From
What Are Plan A and Plan B? Let me quote from "Surviving an Affair:"
You may think that after a spouse willfully chooses a lover (over the betrayed spouse), there would be no hope for marital reconciliation, but that's not true. While there is no hope for reconciliation when the affair is underway, as soon as the affair is ended, reconciliation is definitely possible. And almost all affairs end sooner than most people think they will.
But for the betrayed spouse, waiting for the affair to end seems like an eternity. The wayward spouse can't seem to make up his or her mind -- one moment committing to the marriage and the next moment committing to the lover. To help a betrayed spouse survive that painful period of vacillation -- the time it takes for an affair to die a natural death -- I recommend two plans. If the first plan (plan A) is unsuccessful in separating the wayward spouse from the lover, the second plan (plan B) is followed until the affair is ended. This sequence -- plan A followed by plan B -- represents the most sensible approach to handling a wayward spouse's inability to decide between the lover and the betrayed spouse.
Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands. These three Love Busters not only ruin any effort to reach a negotiated settlement, but they also make the betrayed spouse much less attractive to the wayward spouse. Instead of encouraging total separation from the lover, the anger, disrespect and demands of the betrayed spouse make the lover appear to be the only one who truly cares about the wayward spouse. They literally throw the wayward spouse into the arms of the lover.
In general, a betrayed spouse's effort to encourage the wayward spouse to end the affair should address all the root causes of the affair, and offer a solid plan for marital recovery. It should not be one-sided, however. The plan should make the wayward spouse and the betrayed spouse equally responsible for following the overall plan.
So, to avoid an indefinite period of suffering while a wayward spouse vacillates between spouse and lover, and to avoid rewarding the selfish behavior of having needs met by both spouse and lover, if plan A does not work within a reasonable period of time, I recommend plan B.
Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery. In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible -- love is not restored, resentment is not overcome, and there is a very great risk for another affair. Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B.
Lisa,
Do you have a group of people around you that can help you cope and deal with the emotions of this trying time in your life? (Family, friends, a pastor or spiritual adviser?)
I know that for me, having folks that I could talk to, that didn't suggest that I have my wife drawn and quartered or submerge her in a bathtub full of hydrofluoric acid helped me keep my own emotions in check. In addition I began to journal and wrote out my feelings and frustrations, a practice I kept up for over a year into recovery.
If you want your husband you simply can't make his life as much hell as you can manage and expect him to want to return to you and attend counseling with you. Why would he want to return to a life of misery?
Plan A is supposed to show the WS the BEST side of the BS. It should demonstrate a willingness to meet emotional needs of the WS as well as to take the feelings of the WS into account.
And I KNOW it isn't fair... Nobody said it was FAIR... It SUCKS...
But consider this, you won him once before and you can win him again. You just can't win him back by making him miserable.
I am NOT suggesting you just let everything pass and let him do whatever he wants. I am telling you that if his last memories of you before a Plan B, which I frankly don't think you can do any better than you can do Plan A, are of you screaming at him or threatening him or showing him that you are totally unstable (no matter that his actions contributed greatly to that) then he is not likely to ever want to see you again once he too gets the peace of Plan B.
Dr Harley strongly suggests that a BS see a doctor regarding antidepressants. For you I would highly recommend as well that you find some individual counseling to help you control your emotions. If you can regain control, you MIGHT be able to save your marriage but if you don't you are likely to lose your children as well!
Your emotions are all over the map. I get that. BTDT and got the scars to prove it. But you have no control over him or anyone else for that matter. The only person whose actions you can control is yourself and to be honest, you don't seem to be very successful at that right now.
Get some support for yourself. Take a break from trying to force him to change his actions and realize that you will never undo what has been done no matter what you do. Unless you can demonstrate that you want him home, he won't ever come home and unless you can get yourself into better emotional shape, you stand a huge risk of having your children taken from you.
Now if you want him to pay for what he has done, hire a lawyer, a bulldog with a big bark and even bigger teeth and take him for everything he ever earned. But if you want to save your marriage, get your own emotional state under control even if you have to call friends or family over to help you with the kids and house for a while.
Please get yourself some help... This is way beyond the scope of this forum...We can help with Plan A and Plan B and offer advise and encouragement, but you need more than we can offer right now. You need someone to hold you accountable for your own actions and to give you comfort that this board just doesn't seem to provide in great enough quantity for your situation.
Get some help before it's too late...
Mark
Lisa, for every AO, you make the OW look better and better to your WH.
In trying to control your WH, you are giving away control of yourself.
Plan A is about working on YOURSELF...to become the woman, wife, and mother that you want to be. It is about creating a warm and happy home for your family...making it a place where everyone in your family WANTS to be.
Your WH needs to have hope that the two of you CAN have a happy marriage, and your AO are destroying any possibility of his having that hope.
Get on ADs, give them time to work, and if you become angry, do NOT take it out on your WH. Vent here, and follow the Plan A advice. 3-4 weeks is not so very long.
YOU CAN DO THIS!!!
You just have to make up your mind to do it!
You have some wonderful vets helping you now...they know much more about recovery than I...so I dont want to confuse you, listen to them....They know their stuff, We are all here for you okay...Please, first off take care of yourself.
I agree with all of the helpful advice about doing a GREAT Plan A. You can do this if you can get your reactions to your WH's actions under your control. I read some things on the internet before I found MB that I found very helpful. It was about how every event in neither good nor bad. Think about that for a minute. The event only holds the emotion that the observer of that event places on it.
Here is the email I received one day. It is by a man named Larry Bilotta.
Let me tell you a story that will PROVE to you, without
a doubt, that an event has no meaning...
A farmer lived with his son raising horses and vegetables in
the days of ancient China. One day the son broke his leg.
The townspeople expressed their sadness by saying "You must
be very distressed about your son's leg, for now you must
work the farm alone."
The farmer replied, "Maybe, maybe not."
As the son's leg was healing, the Emperor declared war and
drafted all the young men for battle, but the farmer's son
was rejected because of his broken leg.
The townspeople heard about this and said to the farmer,
"You must be very happy about your son's condition for it
saved him from going to war!"
The farmer replied, "Maybe, maybe not."
As the son limped around the farm doing his chores, he
accidentally left the gate open one night and all 100
horses ran away.
The next day, townspeople came out and said to
the farmer, "It is so sad that you lost all your livestock.
Now you will make very little money."
The farmer replied "Maybe, maybe not."
News came to the farmer that the war was over and the
Emperor decided to hold a lottery and redistribute all
the livestock.
The farmer drew the long straw and received 500 head of
horses. The town's people rallied around him and said,
"You must be very happy now that you have prospered so
richly!"
...and what did the farmer say?
The farmer knows something that few people will ever
understand. Events themselves have no meaning except
the meaning you give them.
The Chinese farmer decided that he would not let his
emotions carry him high or low.
He simply controlled what he could, stayed calm and let
events take their course.
He did not let events control him because he knew a
secret: Events have no meaning until they are "inside you".
With this idea in mind, hopefully you will be a little more
reluctant to label any event that takes place as being good
or bad.
Approach events as the Chinese farmer does: "Maybe, maybe not."
It is HARD NOT to react. It SUCKS. The thing is, as hard as Plan A is, Plan B is HARDER. I have been told(and truly believe) that recovery is harder still. Get your emotions in check. Devise your plan, and you will see how much better you feel.
Thanks for all the advice I am so angry right now I just left his job after going there to confront him since the ow husband just called me to confront me with the fact that he just realized they are in contact!
I told my husband that I spoke to the OWH on Saturday on the side of the road. The truth was he sat in my car because he did not want her to know we still talk because he thought there was NC! She told her husband that someone saw us standing on the side of the road and that he lied about talking to me so she kicked him out of the house.
I realize only he could have told her that.
I started to tell him and he got defensive right away so I decided I am not going to engage in and drove away!
The OWH is now making threats to the safety of my WS and that he is coming to my house. I asked him not to do anything stupid especially since my kids are home! He replied what am i supposed to be the only one paying for their lies! You WH is a liar and this ends tonight!
I am angry that he could endanger our kids and our home in such a manner! He is calling me off the hook!
What am I supposed to do now? I felt so good about all the advice and was going to ask for the 2 week rest so we could go on vacation but now I dont know.... I am ANGRY AND HURT< BETRAYED ALL OVER AGAIN!
Awww, honey, I am so sorry....{{{{{Lisa}}}}}}...
Wait for the vets to come on, I still think Plan B was a good idea for you, but they know better...hopefully they can come on soon to help. I dont know what to tell you......except that I was like you, confrontational, lbing and AO. So I completely understand this craziness...this was before I found MB....I just feel for you, I dont know what you should do now.
I truly dont think that you can handle this Plan Aing stuff....Waywards suck!!!! Wait for the vets hon, okay?
Lisa.
Seriously -- get a grip on your emotions! Especially your anger.
Do you understand that its OW and WH against you and her husband?
Right now your husband goes to OW for refuge/safety/comfort.
In contrast -- its non-stop battles and anger and drama with YOU.
If you were in his shoes which would you want to spend time with?
For right now, you have to stay calm and work YOUR PLAN in the face of any new information you get. They are having an affair.
They will lie, sneak, lie, lie, and LIE. You (nor OWH) can expect the truth from either of them.
You need to change this dynamic of him-n-her against YOU. Their affair needs you involved in the drama for FUEL. Remove yourself from their drama, and start being the better alternative for your HUSBAND.
Stop confronting him. He already knows he's having an affair.
It might be that you don't have the stuff to do Plan A.
So if you want to cut off all contact with him go ahead. But don't bother calling it Plan B.
You're not following MB at all.
Is your WH living with you right now, I forget....I mean OWH should not have left his home and now he is threatening to harm your WH....I can understand his anger, but he is dangerous right now....Did you tell WH about the threats?
And for cripes sake -- why do you have to lie to anyone about talking to OWH?
So WHAT if you are talking to him?????
Really???
I'd tell my husband "hell yeah I'm talking to him!"
I don't get why its a big secret....
I was working on myself and it would go great for 3 or 4 days and then I would either catch him lying or find out some other deceitful thing and it would send me into an AO
Lisa, your husband is a wayward right now. He is not the man that you married or even the one that you have been living with right up until the time that he allowed himself to cross the line and go wayward. Lying and deceit is what waywards do.
I am glad that you got Love busters. It was the last book that I got and it was the one that I needed most. Ihave read it about five times and am in the process of reading it again now. As was mentioned by a previous poster, you are the only person in this world that you can control or change. Eliminating AO and DJ is not something that you work on to entice your WH home, it is a permanent change that you make in yourself. It is part of the self recovery that sometimes must happen before you begin marital R and must continue for the rest of your life.
Please reread Mark's post. Actually, reread the last few pages of posts. It seems that you are reading with little comprehension.
You CAN do this. No one here claims that it will be easy and most of us have already been through it.
You might also want to call the radio show and see what Dr Harley has to say.
God's Blessings,
Say
It might be that you don't have the stuff to do Plan A.
So if you want to cut off all contact with him go ahead. But don't bother calling it Plan B.
You're not following MB at all.
Yeah, thats what I think...just do NC with your WH, for your sanity...THis is too much for you, hon....I would still give him a Plan B letter, it cant hurt any...{{{{{lisa}}}}}}
Lisa, do you see where you went wrong?...you should not have confronted WH....This is where you do not have a handle on Plan A...Waywards are still in the A, most of the time, in Plan A...No confrontations, No Lbing and no AO.....If you cannot get a handle on this its gonna damage any chance of R....
You should either committ to a short plan A or get the heck away from him.
Come on here and talk to us BEFORE you are gonna confront or LB.....vent it on here, ask for help and advice before you make a move, can you do that? Whats goin on right now? Are you okay?
Lisa, do you see where you went wrong?...you should not have confronted WH....This is where you do not have a handle on Plan A...Waywards are still in the A, most of the time, in Plan A...No confrontations, No Lbing and no AO.....If you cannot get a handle on this its gonna damage any chance of R....
Come on here and talk to us BEFORE you are gonna confront or LB.....vent it on here, ask for help and advice before you make a move, can you do that? Whats going on right now? Are you okay?
I drove away before it got to be a confrontation! I kept my voice down and did not accuse I asked what was going on...when he started to get defensive I just decided to drive away and told him we could talk later. I came home and posted and really though about what I wanted to do...
I let the phone ring and ring until I could calmly answer the phone. When I did he asked me what the matter was and I told him why I went there and that I left because it is inappropriate to discuss our issues at his job! I also told him I am just tired and hurt of the situation and that we could talk if he wanted to.
We sat on my porch and I told him what the OW and the OWH husband had been saying.... He went back to the lie that someone saw us talking... I calmly told him that's fine that I really did not want to discuss this issue right now
I told him that we just need to relax and take a break so I can take care of myself and then we can go from there.
I told him I still loved him and beleived if we worked at it we could get our love back. I asked him how he felt...
He told me he feels responsible for me and that he feel like he loves me in some cases and in some he doesn't.
He told me we should just take it a day at a time
I told him we should just take a breather from this roller coaster and then see what happens
I asked him if it was ok for me to maybe go on vacation with them and he said yes that the kids wanted me to go and that he didn't mind because he could handle it but didn't know if I could
I told him we can cross that bridge when it comes
It felt good to be able to be calm and not seething mad!
I am going to my doctor about my mental health to get some medication... I am just going to take it a day at a time!
This is all I can do because no I do not want to just give up!
I also have enlisted the most powerful ally! His best friends ex wife she went through the same thing 2 years ago and is upset that my WH is doing to me what he soo critisized his BF for doing to her! Especially since her ex is trying to get back with her but she doesn't want him.... She tried but she could not get over the other woman part especially since she is still around. Her husband want them to move away but she doesn't want him now..
She told me she wants to talk to him and share her experience with his BF and that hopefully he will see the other side!
I don't think it will help but at least his BF can just lie about what happened anymore!
I think I can, I think I can!
Lisa.
Seriously -- get a grip on your emotions! Especially your anger.
Do you understand that its OW and WH against you and her husband?
Right now your husband goes to OW for refuge/safety/comfort.
In contrast -- its non-stop battles and anger and drama with YOU.
If you were in his shoes which would you want to spend time with?
For right now, you have to stay calm and work YOUR PLAN in the face of any new information you get. They are having an affair.
They will lie, sneak, lie, lie, and LIE. You (nor OWH) can expect the truth from either of them.
You need to change this dynamic of him-n-her against YOU. Their affair needs you involved in the drama for FUEL. Remove yourself from their drama, and start being the better alternative for your HUSBAND.
Stop confronting him. He already knows he's having an affair.
Thanks Lexxy I need tough love right now! I am stronger than them and I refuse to lay down and just die! I let my emotions get the better of me but when I controlled my AO today I felt like a different person!
I think I can I think I can!
----------------
Me --BS and 34
WH 37
DDay 5-1-2010
Relaspe 5/31/10
Just learning to breathe!
From
What Are Plan A and Plan B? Let me quote from "Surviving an Affair:"
You may think that after a spouse willfully chooses a lover (over the betrayed spouse), there would be no hope for marital reconciliation, but that's not true. While there is no hope for reconciliation when the affair is underway, as soon as the affair is ended, reconciliation is definitely possible. And almost all affairs end sooner than most people think they will.
But for the betrayed spouse, waiting for the affair to end seems like an eternity. The wayward spouse can't seem to make up his or her mind -- one moment committing to the marriage and the next moment committing to the lover. To help a betrayed spouse survive that painful period of vacillation -- the time it takes for an affair to die a natural death -- I recommend two plans. If the first plan (plan A) is unsuccessful in separating the wayward spouse from the lover, the second plan (plan B) is followed until the affair is ended. This sequence -- plan A followed by plan B -- represents the most sensible approach to handling a wayward spouse's inability to decide between the lover and the betrayed spouse.
Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands. These three Love Busters not only ruin any effort to reach a negotiated settlement, but they also make the betrayed spouse much less attractive to the wayward spouse. Instead of encouraging total separation from the lover, the anger, disrespect and demands of the betrayed spouse make the lover appear to be the only one who truly cares about the wayward spouse. They literally throw the wayward spouse into the arms of the lover.
In general, a betrayed spouse's effort to encourage the wayward spouse to end the affair should address all the root causes of the affair, and offer a solid plan for marital recovery. It should not be one-sided, however. The plan should make the wayward spouse and the betrayed spouse equally responsible for following the overall plan.
So, to avoid an indefinite period of suffering while a wayward spouse vacillates between spouse and lover, and to avoid rewarding the selfish behavior of having needs met by both spouse and lover, if plan A does not work within a reasonable period of time, I recommend plan B.
Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery. In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible -- love is not restored, resentment is not overcome, and there is a very great risk for another affair. Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B.
Lisa,
Do you have a group of people around you that can help you cope and deal with the emotions of this trying time in your life? (Family, friends, a pastor or spiritual adviser?)
I know that for me, having folks that I could talk to, that didn't suggest that I have my wife drawn and quartered or submerge her in a bathtub full of hydrofluoric acid helped me keep my own emotions in check. In addition I began to journal and wrote out my feelings and frustrations, a practice I kept up for over a year into recovery.
If you want your husband you simply can't make his life as much hell as you can manage and expect him to want to return to you and attend counseling with you. Why would he want to return to a life of misery?
Plan A is supposed to show the WS the BEST side of the BS. It should demonstrate a willingness to meet emotional needs of the WS as well as to take the feelings of the WS into account.
And I KNOW it isn't fair... Nobody said it was FAIR... It SUCKS...
But consider this, you won him once before and you can win him again. You just can't win him back by making him miserable.
I am NOT suggesting you just let everything pass and let him do whatever he wants. I am telling you that if his last memories of you before a Plan B, which I frankly don't think you can do any better than you can do Plan A, are of you screaming at him or threatening him or showing him that you are totally unstable (no matter that his actions contributed greatly to that) then he is not likely to ever want to see you again once he too gets the peace of Plan B.
Dr Harley strongly suggests that a BS see a doctor regarding antidepressants. For you I would highly recommend as well that you find some individual counseling to help you control your emotions. If you can regain control, you MIGHT be able to save your marriage but if you don't you are likely to lose your children as well!
Your emotions are all over the map. I get that. BTDT and got the scars to prove it. But you have no control over him or anyone else for that matter. The only person whose actions you can control is yourself and to be honest, you don't seem to be very successful at that right now.
Get some support for yourself. Take a break from trying to force him to change his actions and realize that you will never undo what has been done no matter what you do. Unless you can demonstrate that you want him home, he won't ever come home and unless you can get yourself into better emotional shape, you stand a huge risk of having your children taken from you.
Now if you want him to pay for what he has done, hire a lawyer, a bulldog with a big bark and even bigger teeth and take him for everything he ever earned. But if you want to save your marriage, get your own emotional state under control even if you have to call friends or family over to help you with the kids and house for a while.
Please get yourself some help... This is way beyond the scope of this forum...We can help with Plan A and Plan B and offer advise and encouragement, but you need more than we can offer right now. You need someone to hold you accountable for your own actions and to give you comfort that this board just doesn't seem to provide in great enough quantity for your situation.
Get some help before it's too late...
Mark
I am doing just that getting help because truthfully I am all over the place and my kids are suffering! I have no friends that see it my way except maybe his BF ex-wife
I am going to make it!
lisa, let's look at this calmly.
Your WH is STILL in an A.
Your WH ia lying about EVERYTHING. Do NOT believe what he says.
Your WH is cake eating. OW meets some of his ENs and you are meeting the others. He's loving this. He wants it all.
Your WH is no different than any other WH. They ALL say the same thing. Dismiss his foggy babble.
So until you KNOW there is NC which means he's written an NC letter to OW, assume the A is still going on full speed.
This is where you come in. Get a hold of yourself and accept that it is still going on. Get your plan in order and do not go off track by REACTING to his actions or words. Let it all roll off your back and continue to work your plan. I can tell you NOW that the cr@p that'll come out of his mouth in the next few months will anger, hurt and scare you. Don't let it. They all say the same thing at this point in an A. Get used to it and don't react. Work your plan.
If you want this M then get into plan A and stay there for a specific amount of time. It does not matter what HE does durng this time. You are working YOUR plan A. Then when your time is done, move swiftly into plan B.
You can be in plan A even if he isn't there, but he seems to be hanging around alot. Let him. Meet his ENs that you can. Don't LB and don't expect a THING from him. Don't read into anything he does. Get it? What he does will not change your plan A. What he says will not change your plan A.
He is having an A and this is what a WS does. So keep on your path. Work your plan.
I have one comment about OWH making threats. I wouldn't take them lightly. I'd actually contact the police and let them know what is going on. Last year a guy in the neighborhood was having an A, the OWH made threats and then killed him the following day in his house. So beware.
Okay, Lisa, now regroup....You can do this!!! PLan A it is....
I just left his job after going there to confront him since the ow husband just called me to confront me with the fact that he just realized they are in contact!
I told my husband that I spoke to the OWH on Saturday on the side of the road. The truth was he sat in my car because he did not want her to know we still talk because he thought there was NC! She told her husband that someone saw us standing on the side of the road and that he lied about talking to me so she kicked him out of the house.
I realize only he could have told her that.
I started to tell him and he got defensive right away so I decided I am not going to engage in and drove away!
And no more of this, okay?
I mean the part about WH, this is the stuff that is killing your Plan A....You dont need to tell your WH that OWH said they are still in contact. WH knows he and OW are still in contact...this is what I meant by confrontation...I just want to make sure you understand that part...
I have one comment about OWH making threats. I wouldn't take them lightly. I'd actually contact the police and let them know what is going on. Last year a guy in the neighborhood was having an A, the OWH made threats and then killed him the following day in his house. So beware.
This bears repeating. It DOES happen and for some reason, the news almost always glosses over the fact. When an enraged BS murders an OP, the news make it look like some random killing where somebody just went nuts for no reason and doesn't mention "affair".
Too bad. Again, it would be another deterrent. Murder and suicide are connected to adultery far more often than most people think but the news likes to pretend that it isn't.
This is something that WS never think about. My XWH just sneered when I told him he ought to look out for the BH of his last (known) girlfriend, who I knew was married with a child.
Please do inform the police of OWH's threats right now.
Think of it this way Lisa, you are at WAR against your WH's AFFAIR. Your WH and OW are SOLDIERS in that war. They have not been properly trained. They also only have EACH OTHER. You have a whole bunch of soldiers on your side. You have a general(DrH) who has given his orders to us all. There are some officers and some newly trained soldiers. We are ALL here for the same reason, to help you try to recover your marriage.
Have you read the Art of War thread? You need to understand that you telling him the things you know will tip your hand. Don't use it until you need to.
Have you read other people's threads? Have you read through all of the links on that thread I linked in my first post to you?
Think of it this way Lisa, you are at WAR against your WH's AFFAIR. Your WH and OW are SOLDIERS in that war. They have not been properly trained. They also only have EACH OTHER. You have a whole bunch of soldiers on your side. You have a general(DrH) who has given his orders to us all. There are some officers and some newly trained soldiers. We are ALL here for the same reason, to help you try to recover your marriage.
Have you read the Art of War thread? You need to understand that you telling him the things you know will tip your hand. Don't use it until you need to.
Have you read other people's threads? Have you read through all of the links on that thread I linked in my first post to you?
I have read most of it and I am continuing to read the posts.
I havent seen the Art of War thread!
I know I am strong enough to do this. I have thought alot about what was said here and I beleive my AO and the fact that I am overeaccting to everything is pushing him out the door!
I did tell him yesterday that I needed the next week or so to kind of just relax and take care of myself. I told him that if he wanted to talk to me I would be here but that I just needed some time to relax and to get off the roller coaster.
He agreed he asked me again if I wanted to go on vacation with him and the kids and I told him we would cross that bridge when it came.
I told him that his actions were hurtful and that I just wanted all the fighting to stop.
Overall it was very calm conversation.NO AO or DJ
He did call me last night to tell me he was going to have dinner with his BF ex wife because he did not want me to find out from someone else.
Little did he know I already knew so she and I have launched assault against this A and the OW
She called me after they had dinner and she said it went pretty well and that he seemed sincere about wanting to come home but being confused because of the OW
She told me he was surprised and didnt know how I could forgive him so easily and be willing to work things out especially since the affair was so close to home.
She said there is a chance to save this marriage but he is very ripe for this or any affair and that this OW was extremely dangerous to my marriage.... She said she never even confronted her husband about the affair untill it was too late and the OW had total and utter control .....
She did say he was sick and tired of the fighting and my inability to control my reactions ect! She told me grow up this isnt a game you need to make changes in order for him to want to come back!
It made me wonder if she ever was on here!
So for now it is not just an army of 1
-----------------------
ME BS 34
WH 36
DDay 5/1/10
Moved out 5/14/10
Moving into plan A 6/1/10
[
If this isn't a man rubbing an affair in his wife's face, I don't know what is.
This led to the fighting that led lisa to superficially slash her wrists.
This is not someone who should suffer through Plan A for one minute longer.
She has tried long enough and his cake-eating and cruelty have gone on long enough.
Everybody's got their limits and I think lisa has reached hers.
If you are really not sure, lisa, then call the Harleys and get their take on this.
This is why I agree with Plan B on this one. He has clearly told her his plans, and those are to stay in the house and get some of his needs met while continuing his A to get the rest met. He knows he needs both. He won't remove the A, so I think Lisa should remove him from herself.
Years ago, I had friends in the same situation, where the BW was accommodating to her WH, and the OW ended up moving in with them.
I'd talk to the Harleys too, Lisa.
Sounded like the conversation with his bf went great! He really did seem sincere about moving back home?? That is HUGE! I am actually really excited! Even if the A is still going on, but if he has that desire to be home, then at least you get a chance to do a kick @$$ Plan A!
Sounded like the conversation with his bf went great! He really did seem sincere about moving back home?? That is HUGE! I am actually really excited! Even if the A is still going on, but if he has that desire to be home, then at least you get a chance to do a kick @$$ Plan A!
I know I am reading love busters because according to her his needs were pretty clear, Communication, understanding, acceptance, me taking care of my weight issues and self esteem and less AO and DJ from me and more time spent doing things recreationaly.
From what she explained he is pretty much in the fogg right now but is realizing what he doesnt want and that is to loose our family or me! Matbe the fogg is lifting slightly!
So I have to formulate a solid plan A including some of the changes he really needs to see from me regarding myself the house and the kids!
So I have hope now when I thought it was hopless and all was lost!
-----------------------
ME BS 34
WH 36
DDay 5/1/10
Moved out 5/14/10
Plan A 6/1/10
No longer an Army of 1
You are doing good, lisa...keep it together, you can do it.
![[Linked Image from pic4ever.com]](http://www.pic4ever.com/images/cheerleader3.gif)
Lisa,
From the description of the things the friend said about the conversation with him, I see some possible ideas for you in Plan A.
Killing the Love Busters is good. AOs are easy to identify but DJs are a bit tricky to get a handle on sometimes. Still, if you can get these under control, you will not be undoing everything in the way of progress made by trying to meet his ENs.
From what you describe I see as some of his top ENs:
Physical Attractiveness; weight can be a big issue for some, but at least as important is how you present yourself when around him. This can be as much mental as it is mere appearance but endeavor to look and smell as good as you can whenever you see him face to face. BE attractive.
Admiration; this is probably at the root of his talking about being accepted and understood.
Recreational Companionship; not a surprise at all since this is one of the big ones for most men. It is also one of the 4 Intimate Emotional Needs that Dr Harley stresses are so important to being met whenever you are alone together during UA time.
The communication thing can be a bit tricky. He might clearly have a need for conversation but could also have a need for Openness and Honesty (always makes me laugh when a person who has been lying about an affair has this as a top need, yet it is probably the way a lot of affairs begin). This could also be related to not really having a clue what you need from him. This can lead to a lot of frustration for many men since we often feel that our wives expect us to know what you need without actually telling us what that is. No matter how great a marriage, mind reading isn't something we can accomplish very well.
There is also something that needs to be kept in mind whenever we examine ENs right after the discovery of an affair. The thing that is most lacking is always the thing that is most important to us. This really goes beyond just stuff surrounding the affair and gets right to the heart of many marital problems so it is something you need to be aware of.
I often explain it like this. If you are wandering around outside in a blizzard without a coat, your number one need is to get warm. If someone invites you inside to sit by the fire, you can begin to warm up and after a brief time you might realize that you are also desperately thirsty and need something to drink. Once you have consumed some water or maybe a hot beverage, then you might also realize that you haven't eaten in a while and so you desire something to eat as well. The most absent need is the one that is most important.
Now for most men, SF is a big issue. Of course during an affair, this need is often being met by the OW even in an EA where no actual sex is taking place. The testosterone driven sex drive (in both men and women) can in itself be the stimulus to provide whatever is needed by a man even if he isn't getting a completed sex act on a regular basis. This doesn't last forever this way and eventually must lead to actual sex or he becomes frustrated.
But still, based on what you were told, I would work overtime at meeting his EN for RC which the vacation with him and the kids would probably accomplish in spades. I'd also work on looking good and smelling great whenever you are around him. You can work on the weight thing, but make the best of what you have to offer. Also be sure to find things to admire about him and let him know in subtle ways that you in fact admire him for them. Praise him for his job, his being a dad to the kids, his ability to fix things... If he is good at stuff like this, you can use this to your advantage. Find stuff that needs fixing around the house and ask him to come fix them. Then thank him, tell him you couldn't have done it yourself and you are so glad that he has the ability to fix stuff for you.
Now, as for Plan B...
Consider your options for getting into a Plan B at some point, probably a lot sooner than you might want to since you do need to protect yourself from his continuing affair or you will not love him enough to want him when the affair ends. Begin to plan this step now since you can always not go to Plan B if the affair crashes and you find yourself beginning to try recovery.
But before going dark and letting the affair run its course with the resulting time away from each other, give him the best Plan A that you can muster since making him desire being with you will be the only thing that will make him want to come home after a protracted separation. If the separation seems like a punishment or a first salvo in the battle of divorce, that is the way he will think of it even when the affair ends. He has to remember your fondly as the wife who was willing to let him make it up to you and was capable of meeting his ENs or he won't want to come home whether the fantasy of the affair is there or not.
PLAN A your tush off while getting your ducks in a row for PLAN B so that if you get to separation it might lead to reconciliation rather than divorce. I the plan is to never allow him to be your husband, never to meet his ENs and only to punish him, get a lawyer and start Plan D at once.
Mark
MarK
That is great advice I did start the gym for myself because I do not feel comfortable at my present weight I have lost over 20 lbs so far and he has noticed the changes in my appearance.
I also know he wants honesty because he told me that I have been dishonest with him towards certain things like contacting the OH and such or going into his facebook page... ECT.
I know he needs conversation but he is very reticent to open up to me right now. I do not know what to say or talk about that doesnt have to do with the kids or the issues at hand! Its funny that I can talk to strangers about anything since I am very outgoing but with him nothing.... my mind goes blank.
He aslo had been offering to teach me how to drive his motorcycle and was very surprised when I told him I was going to take the couse.
This was something he asked of me but I refused to do so.
He has also given me a helmet and offered rides all under the excuse of friendship
He did come over last weekend and washed all the cars, cut the grass, and even fixed my sons bike under the frienship and I just want to help you excuse. It was almost like he was just looking for an excuse to hang out.
I just need to take this at face value right now and not let it get my hopes too high!
Addressing the SF issue in our relationship I was the person always tring to get sex from him. He told me he felt he couldnt satify me and I feel becasue I always wanted the act not the hand holding or touching or any of the other things that lead up to sex and intimacy.
I do not know why but I always hated cuddling or spooning and he loved doing that and would be hurt saying I wouldnt do that with him unless he gave me sex.
I do not know what the underlying issue for me was for being obssed with having sex with him but even know that my libido is next to nothing I see him and I crave his touch and the experience of us being together in that way.
I will definitely implement some of the changes you mentioned and see how we go from there.
----------------------
ME BS 34
WH 36
DDay 5/1/10
Plan A formulation 6/1/10
No longer an army of 1
I also know he wants honesty because he told me that I have been dishonest with him towards certain things like contacting the OH and such or going into his facebook page...
You do realize that this part is bovine excrement, right?
Having a secret second life is what makes affairs possible. This is why Dr Harley talks about radical honesty, that is, complete transparency between spouses where neither one has anything that is hidden from the other. When in an affair, a WS often cries for privacy, what they really seek is secrecy to continue doing what they have done.
A WS also almost always cries foul and tries to deflect blame when they find out that they have been discovered to be liars. They will claim that the BS lied to them, used underhanded tactics etc when it is they who violated the trust in the marriage.
The Openness and Honesty that is an emotional need is the need for sharing of events of the day, feelings, desires, hopes and dreams for the future etc. This is what seems to be in place during the beginning stages of an affair that makes it so attractive to some, yet eventually the fact that the affair is actually only a made up fantasy shows itself and in order to sustain the relationship the APs have to begin lying to each other as well as those around them. If O&H is in fact a real EN for one of them, if the BS begins meeting this need in earnest, sometimes it might be enough to trigger the desire to return to the marriage.
But this idea that the BS has lied in order to gain access to the things that affect them directly and the fact that their marriage is under attack is pure bullchit! It is gaslighting and nothing more. Give it no consideration. You don't have to call him out on it right now and make his life hell for saying something like that but just know that this in itself is a lie. That is why I said I always laugh at waywards that seem to have a high need for honesty, since they have no concept of what being honest really means.
The rest seems to me to be at least a plan and a plan is what you need. It has to be things that you will do to change the things that you have control over, none of them related to what he is doing or might do. It is a step by step list of changes you will make and things that you will do in spite of and despite whatever he chooses to do. It is not a reaction to what he is doing but something you can do that will make you a better wife and show him by your actions that it is so.
As you proceed, consider options for an intermediary to carry out the tasks of communications between you if you go to Plan B since while in Plan A and before you are burned out totally is the time to make those kinds of decisions. Also put your requirements for him to return to the marriage down on paper. These are not for him right now, but for you so that you might gain clarity and know what you will need from him if he ever decides to return to the marriage.
In other words, Plan A your ever firmer butt off while preparing for Plan B in the case you need to go there because only about 15% reach the point of attempting recovery as the result of Plan A.
Plan B then isn't the end, but the next step in a plan to save your marriage when the affair dies. Plan B is not for him, it is for YOU. The same can be said about Plan A. Plan A makes you the best YOU that YOU can be while Plan B lets YOU gain strength and avoid the pain of watching the one you love destroy all of your hopes and dreams on a daily basis.
Make at home with you better than even his wildest fantasy and no other woman will be able to compete for long. If you make being with you harder than being alone, he will choose even that. So fix what you have control over. Kill those DJs and AOs. Watch out for IB and SDs as well but don't fail to simply demand that he not share your marriage with any other woman since your marriage is for the two of you alone and not something to be shared with others. Make the marriage something he is willing to invest in and then it is up to him to decide what he will do.
Meet his ENs as much as he allows.
Avoid Love Busters since these will make an affair more attractive than the marriage.
Have no expectations that he will react in any way to what you are doing.
Mark
I do want to say that his FB account he deactivated it as of monday night becsuse of our fight over it monday.
Do not know if this is good or bad. He told me he doesnt need if it going to cause so many issues.
The only issue for me was he was trying to look at her facebook page to get his fix I guess and he actually accused me of deleting her off his page!
I told him she must have deleted him because I did not which was the truth but it just bothered me.
Yesterday was better , today hopefully better yet.
He told me he went to therapy today and whe i asked him if it helped he said only because he can vent his feelings but that he already knows what they have to say.
He didnt tell me what that was but I told him well you need to decide if that is what you need but I am proud of you for at least going and trying to get help for your issues.
-------------------
ME BS 34
WH 36
DDay 5/1/10
No longer and army of 1
Yesterday was better , today hopefully better yet.
Just remember that it is a roller coaster ride. There will be ups and there will be downs. The higher the up part, the longer the plummet when you hit that drop.
As time goes on and you begin to learn to adjust your own emotional state a bit, you will be able to ward off those hard falls and if recovery actually takes place, the road gets smoother as you go along. It just isn't going to be instant pudding I'm afraid.
He didnt tell me what that was but I told him well you need to decide if that is what you need but I am proud of you for at least going and trying to get help for your issues.
Good Plan A moment, this... Admiration...check!
Mark
Thanks Mark I did feel like that was good way to encourage him.
He didnt reply back to my text message but I know he read it so I feel good!
Just a bit paniky today since we have not really been talking today only when he sends me a text and I reply!
Going to see therapist today for meds!
I'm telling you Lisa! Get a base ball bat or some stick, and pound out all that emotion on your bed or pillow lol (i usually pound out on my bed)
I know it helps me out in some issues I have in my life.
Your doing great Lisa! So proud of you!
I do want to say that his FB account he deactivated it as of monday night becsuse of our fight over it monday.
Do not know if this is good or bad. He told me he doesnt need if it going to cause so many issues.
The only issue for me was he was trying to look at her facebook page to get his fix I guess and he actually accused me of deleting her off his page!
I told him she must have deleted him because I did not which was the truth but it just bothered me.
Yesterday was better , today hopefully better yet.
He told me he went to therapy today and whe i asked him if it helped he said only because he can vent his feelings but that he already knows what they have to say.
He didnt tell me what that was but I told him well you need to decide if that is what you need but I am proud of you for at least going and trying to get help for your issues.
-------------------
ME BS 34
WH 36
DDay 5/1/10
No longer and army of 1
It is very simple to deactivate a FB page and then reactivate it later. Snoop, Lisa.
As far as his therapy goes - I am concerned that he is going to therapy so he can say he went to therapy. I haven't heard of too many people who have said IC helped recover the M from an A, especially when the A is active or the WS is foggy.
He is going to therapy for the depression but he just told me today he might not go anymore so its really up to him!
Also I know it can be reactivated so I changed the notification email to mine at work as well as his login password! I further sent an email for complete deletion so since he has a 14 day grace period for deletion he wont be able to log in an reactivate the account because I did those things!
I am going to stick to my plan A but I am going into this with my eyes wide open now!
He also cant use our email address here so the only place he has left is at work and that is a public computer with no access to anything not even email or facebook so hopefully that area is covered.
Should I worry about his IC?
He also cant use our email address here so the only place he has left is at work and that is a public computer with no access to anything not even email or facebook so hopefully that area is covered.
He can change his name slightly (middle initial) and open a new account. He can use his real name and open a new account with a new base city. He can open another email account that you "won't find." Keep snooping. There is also a feature that allows FB users to have private friends. I'm sorry if you've already addressed this, but do you have a keylogger on your computer?
Well he came over to see the kids and I was in a pretty summer dress looking very cute with sandals and my makeup done, as well as smelling good!!! He asked me where I was going I said to my therapist he said looking like that! He got kin of irritated and said whatever!
He then went on to ignore me and went upsatirs where he promptly discovered that the facbook account was deleted! He went off asking me why I did it!
I calmly looked at him and said well we agreed to it right. And he looked at me and was like yes but that's when we were fighting I thought you were over it.
I again calmly asked him why it was so upsetting to him since he was the one that suggested I do it to avoid any issues!
He was ticked off and said well you shouldn't have deleted it without telling me. I'm barely on anyways.
I was so hurt but I just looked at him entered the new password and let him reactivate the account.
I then told him we agreed to the deletion because I did not want you on her account and it was part of the no contact
He then said I only looked at her wall and I can only send her an email and you can look in the history I didn't do it
I said fine but I am very hurt by this reversal you know how I feel about the NC agreement.
He then told me would you rather I have a face book page you didn't know about? You have my password and there is nothing to hide!
I repeated that those words hurt me and that it was up to him to decide but that he knew how I felt.
I said I need to go to therapy and said bye.
I went to therapy let it all out and explained that I need meds to help me control my emotions!
She told me to contact my PCP. So I am waiting for him to call me back.
I am very hurt by all this but I controlled my emotions and I know this is par for the course but it is still very painful that he is obviously trying to get his fix of her anyway he can
It is getting close to Plan B time for you, missy...He is definitely in contact with OW....Just keep your emotions in check...IDK if you should have erased his FB account without him there..It might have been kind of an LB, you prolly should have done it with him there.
See if you can go to a psychiatrist after you get some emergency Ad's from your PCP...They are more specialized and maybe can give you better meds or a combo....
Okay, Lisa, you need to be O&H with US too. You see you posted that your WH deleted FB on Monday night. Now we find out that YOU actually deleted it. WHen was that BTW.
At first, you saying that HE deleted it makes it seem like he is trying to do things FOR you. Now you are upset by his reaction to the deleted FB account.
You are confusing ME.
If you are in Plan A, you need to be in PLan A. Then you can move to Plan B.
I am so confused as to what to advise you because you seem to tell us contradicting things. I thought you were going to take a little time away from your WH and then attempt Plan A when you had a better handle on yourself. Then I see you saying that you ARE in contact with him. Then you are doing a Plan A(I guess).
Hun, what do you want help with? Are you going to do YOUR plan and need this place to vent and share stuff? If that's it, then let us know.
Have you read EVERYTHING on here yet? I have asked this a FEW times. I don't think you answered yet.
He agreed to deactivate it on Monday and I deleted it today without consulting him....
I have been reading and re-reading... I guess I am not understanding the material as I should....
You are right he agreed to it but ultimately I did it today!
I have tried not to be in contact with him I haven't called him but I have answered his texts ...
He came by tonight and this is when all of this face book stuff happened!
I want to save my marriage and I just am sooo confused!
I think I have a handle on the material but then I do something wrong!
I have read all the threads you suggested and have kept reading the threads!
I need some tough love right now I do not want to push him into this woman's arms
I think he is very vulnerable and I do not want to give her that kind of power over us!
Did you expose to everyone? I cant remember...
Yup everyone know on our side but I don't know on her side!
Have you tried to snoop and find her side...That would put a lot more pressure on the A....
I think her sister and her husband knows but not sure about anything else!
How did you find out that they know?....
My Husband just called me to ask me how therapy went. I didn't pick up the phone right away because I was in a heated phone conversation with the OW because her husband is still making threats.
I called her and I told her I will not do this with them anymore that I cant believe I am having this conversation with her again!
That I felt scared and that I do not want her husband coming to my house for anything.
I hung up on her and called my WH back needless to say he was not happy that I did not call or text him 2 hrs earlier when he wanted to know about my session. I calmly told him I needed the time to process what had transpired during session.
He asked me who was so important I wouldn't answer the phone I just changed the subject!
He demanded to know who I was talking to and I told him I refuse to engage in an argument because I do not want to be on the roller coaster, he then backed off and said he doesn't have a right to ask anyway
He then went on to ask me and I told him about the treatment plan they have which includes AD and anxiety meds. They gave me crisis plans to help control my emotions. He also told me that his therapist told him that every-time we have an episode it just sets him back to square one in his process.
He also told me that when he sees my number on his phone and a text he cringes cause he doesn't know what to expect. I said that makes me sad that he feels like he doesn't know when the next explosion is coming! That the last 2 weeks have been soo stressful because of my behavior. and that I say I want the truth but when he gives it to me I cant handle it.
I told him the truth hurts and yes I would prefer the truth and that I know that some of my behavior is not ok.
I said we are in different positions and have different temperaments so we will deal with the problems differently as well as the fact that i see things differently because I feel like I had the things done to me.
I don't even know how I kept my kool since I said all of this in the same tone of voice!!
He went on to tell me that he did speak to his friends wife and that she talk about her stuff and he felt she wanted to just talk to get stuff off her chest and that he got very little from it! Wow talk about totally different point of view!
He also said she told him to take this separation to really think about what he wants and to use the time to maybe see other people so he can make sure this is what he wants.
I had a tiny AO... I said she said what? You want to do what?
He was silent and said he didn't want to talk anymore!
I apologized and said that just took me off guard because that's not what I expected you to say!
He then kept talking and just the garbage that came out of his mouth.... He then said oh I don't know exactly how she put it but that's how I understood the piece of advice. That we need to make the most of this time apart because if we get back together it should be for good.
I was shocked silent! I then calmly told him well I for one did not agree to that in this separation.
He got angry and was like that's not what I said I was going to do or what I wanted right now! you always jump to conclusions!
He said its just a piece of advice
Well i said in my monotone voice ok i'm not saying she said that but I for one am not even ready to contemplate anything of the sort as a matter of fact that is unacceptable to me.
I said put yourself in my shoes can you imagine me with someone else/
He was like well if that's what we agreed upon I cant say anything to you!
I said ok so it wouldn't hurt you to imagine me with some one else all hugged up?
He said well yes it would probably bother me but if we agreed to it I cant say anything to you.
I was just speechless I told him I can not continue this conversation I do love you but I need to get off the phone.
He said well you keep saying that!
He doesn't know that I spoke to her today and she told me she said that this separation is for him to work on himself not for him to be with different women to see what he likes!
I really feel shocked he would even suggest this! I know he is a fog but that is just messed up!
I am so screwed up right now! I keep trying to do the right steps and failing to do so!
HELP!
The OW caught me and her husband talking and went ballistic!
She told me she is calling WH to put an end to all this bull crap because she just wants to move-on with her-life and the fact that me and her husband are talking is unacceptable to her.
My husband found out I spoke to her and to her Husband and thretened that if I contact them again that its completely over and that if I want any kind of chance that I need to stop all contact!
He said the damage is done that there is little chance of him comming back home now.
I think I really messed up this time!
ok. Let her be upset. YOU did nothing wrong. Don't let her bully you. Too bad that she thinks it's unacceptable. And what does she think what she did was? acceptable?
You've got to step back from the drama. Stop talking with OW, it'll get you nowhere. They spew venom.
Breath lisa. You're not in the wrong here.
Yes but now she is feeding WH all kinds of lies and he wants to cut all ties with me!
See part of an A is the DRAMA. Alot of OWs LOVE drama. It's what fuels the A. I know she was your BF but she isn't any longer and never will be again. You need NC with her just as your WH does. Don't give her a place in your life or validate her importance in your M by talking to her. She is nothing now, just some skank. The sooner you stop communicating with her the better. And better still...it'll drive her crazy!
Got it?
lisa you can't control him. He's going to do what he's going to do. He's having an A. It's par for the course. You can't let what he does/she does get you in a tizzy. You can only control you and your mental state. So we need to look at this plan A timeframe of yours. How long can you go on if you REACT to every cr@ppy thing they do? Especially all the cr@ppy things that OW does? Becasue she is going to do ALOT of cr@ppy things to you. She is TRYING to hurt you. And the fact that she was a friend is worse because she KNOWS what hurts you.
If you can't back away from it all, you're going to have to do a VERY short plan A. You will literally have a breakdown if this all continues as it is. I'm not trying to scold you I'm just trying to protect you. You've got to see that EVERYTHING that they do and say is what ALL APs do and say. And it will hurt if you listen to it all. Don't. Your WH is looking for ANY excuse to stay away from home. ANY. So don't give him any.
What's your plan A timeframe? When do you plan on going into plan B?
I know, I know I don't know why I keep talking and arguing with her!
WH told me that this is not his wife that this is a crazy person that he always told me it didn't have anything to do with her but
that he is fed up and has reached his tipping point with all my crap.
Now she gets to be the calm rational one! Again!
WH is furious with me and if I continue then its over for good!
My heart is in 2 pieces! How can he cause all this drama and then blame me for everything!
I know I have had some extremes this past week but we have been going at it for 2 weeks so after 2 weeks he is ready to chuck it all!
I am my own worst enemy it seems!
Okay, Lisa, you wanted some tough love and here it is(a little anyways). You tell us that you want to try to save your marriage, and then...... Well, then your actions go against that. You can't just talk the talk, you have to walk the walk. I don't think it is a matter of you not understanding the material. I think that logically, you "get it." Your problem is that you react to things very emotionally. This causes you to do things that go AGAINST you goal.
I don't know why you do the things you do. That is something you will have to figure out for yourself.
Now as far as the conversations you had. First, don't call OW. Second, don't agree to date other people. Married people don't date other people. Explain to your WH that you are married and that you believe that married people don't date. You wanted to gage his reaction to the fact that you would date. He kept saying that he would be upset but he couldn't say anything to you if that is what you agreed to. What you should have said is, "I am married I will NEVER agree to us "dating" other people, want a cookie?"
Now, as far as what your therapist says to you and your treatments, I think that he is fishing to see how well you are handling things. You have to ACT strong. No crying, no begging at all. He needs to see a strong person.
Think about back to when you started dating. How did you act? Were you clingy? Did you talk about dating other people? What attracted him to you? Think about how YOU can be a GREAT wife and mother. That is what Plan A is about. It isn't about WH. It is about YOU. Get it? You need to change YOU. You CAN'T change your WH. You need to control YOURSELF. Devise your plan. Take it one day at a time.
Today, you need to do a few things.
1. Eat.
2. Sleep.
3. Take care of your kiddos.
4. Look HOT.
5. Don't call OW.
6. If you talk to WH, be upbeat and happy(even though inside you are dieing).
7. Take a break and get a mani/pedi.
8. DON't add to the drama of your life today.(How can you do this? Don't call OW. Don't talk to OWH today)
My plan A time frame was 3 weeks but now I don't know If I can even implement it with him being so pissed off right now and in that frame of mind that he cant deal with me!
Im afraid to do plan B because of all the negative things that have gone on! Did you read my posts from last night?
Okay, Lisa, you wanted some tough love and here it is(a little anyways). You tell us that you want to try to save your marriage, and then...... Well, then your actions go against that. You can't just talk the talk, you have to walk the walk. I don't think it is a matter of you not understanding the material. I think that logically, you "get it." Your problem is that you react to things very emotionally. This causes you to do things that go AGAINST you goal.
I don't know why you do the things you do. That is something you will have to figure out for yourself.
Now as far as the conversations you had. First, don't call OW. Second, don't agree to date other people. Married people don't date other people. Explain to your WH that you are married and that you believe that married people don't date. You wanted to gage his reaction to the fact that you would date. He kept saying that he would be upset but he couldn't say anything to you if that is what you agreed to. What you should have said is, "I am married I will NEVER agree to us "dating" other people, want a cookie?"
Now, as far as what your therapist says to you and your treatments, I think that he is fishing to see how well you are handling things. You have to ACT strong. No crying, no begging at all. He needs to see a strong person.
Think about back to when you started dating. How did you act? Were you clingy? Did you talk about dating other people? What attracted him to you? Think about how YOU can be a GREAT wife and mother. That is what Plan A is about. It isn't about WH. It is about YOU. Get it? You need to change YOU. You CAN'T change your WH. You need to control YOURSELF. Devise your plan. Take it one day at a time.
Today, you need to do a few things.
1. Eat.
2. Sleep.
3. Take care of your kiddos.
4. Look HOT.
5. Don't call OW.
6. If you talk to WH, be upbeat and happy(even though inside you are dieing).
7. Take a break and get a mani/pedi.
8. DON't add to the drama of your life today.(How can you do this? Don't call OW. Don't talk to OWH today)
You are right Scotland I need to stop with the emotional crap! I have to just let it go and concentrate on me! This is so much harder because I do not want to let go I think!
When we first dated he was always calling me and I was very happy go lucky and independent!
Keep the tough love coming! I need the harsh truth do not sugar coat it because I am sliding down a slippery slope that will end in divorce.
He is PLAYING pissed off because it's his way of JUSTIFYING his actions. I'm sure if you looked at him the wrong way today he would blow a gasket. Don't panic. This is another WS tactic to get you off of their back. That's all. See he says that he is FURIOUS, PISSED OFF BEYOND WORDS...and what do you do? You back off and play right into his hands by believing that YOU did wrong. He WANTS you to think this way. Then the blame is on you.
YOU have to remember that HE is having the A. Set this bar HIGH hon. And step away from the drama.
Lisa,
Plan A does not depend on anything he does. Plan A depends only on what you do. Stop trying to find the right magic bullet and execute about 10 solid days of Plan A as already outlined for you a couple of times.
Stop trying to control anyone and everyone else and get yourself under control. You are making yourself crazy by your own actions. Get a grip, girl...
The reason you keep floundering is because you are still trying to change what is happening around you. You have no control over other people. You can only control yourself. Right now you are working at it in the exact opposite and attempting to control what you have no control over and allowing yourself to get out of control...
Meet his ENs
Avoid Love Busters.
That's it, Lisa. That is the sum total of what you have to be able to do for about 10 days in a row. You don't have to answer his bull-crap questions. You don't have to discuss OWH's threats or the drama of the affair or the price of oil on the spot market or anything else. You don't even have to discuss what you are doing right now. All you have to do it...
Meet his ENs and avoid Love Busters...
And stop trying to control what other people are doing.
I'm starting to see a situation where he gives YOU conditions for his return. It MUST be the other way around.
I think her sister and her husband knows but not sure about anything else!
Stupid, me...I know the OWH knows already...anyway this doesnt matter right now....Right now your Plan A is not a Plan A....Listen to what everyone is posting and pay special attention to what Mark just posted...Your WH has complete control of this sitch, that needs to change...
Lisa,
You've been trying to shame him into coming home. You've tried coercing him into coming home. You've tried bribing him into coming home. You tried to drive OW away so that he will come home. So how's all that been working for ya?
Give him a reason to come home, Lisa. That reason has to be YOU. I do NOT mean something you say, something you make happen or any other single solution that if you find it will make everything alright and the planets will all be aligned and the universe will stabilize...
The universe doesn't revolve around you anyway, so let's look at what will bring him home. What will accomplish that will be if he is in love with you and more in love with you than he is with OW, any other OW and even more than he is in love with the idea of being single.
Turn yourself into the woman he can't live without, Lisa. THAT is what you have to do to win this. Stop making him hurt and start trying to make him notice that you can make him happy instead. Don't tell him you will do this; show him by what you do that you can do this.
The longer you keep trying to leverage this into what you expect and want, the less time you actually get to do what you need to do. When I say that you need to meet his ENs and avoid Love Busters, that is exactly what I mean and not that AND anything else. That is all you have to do. It is when you try to do other things that you lose focus on those two and do the opposite. You end up piling on Love Busters and failing to meet his ENs at all. You are depleting his Love Bank with every interaction and that is to say nothing about your own Love Bank's condition.
This isn't a logic puzzle, Lisa. It is an execution problem. All you need to do at this point is stop Love Busting him and try to meet his ENs as already identified. Ignore what he says and does for a while and certainly avoid any contact with OW and her husband.
Just get control over what you are doing, Lisa. That is ALL you can do and ALL you need to do.
He jus called me and spoke to me for 35 minutes telling me how he doesnt recognize me anymore! That all this craziness is making him loose pieces of what he felt for me evreytime we have had an episode!
He told me this person is not my wife... my wife is a strong person who would stand on her own and find a way to get through this That she would find a way to work things out in the end!
She would avoid doing LB and AO and the obsessing with the OH
That if me and the OH are playing a game that the OH has brainwashed me!
If you want a chance to try to work things out you need to get your self together and calm down!
He doesnt know where this leaves us at all.
Mark I think well I know you are correct!
I have to stabalize myself by changing what I can within myself.... My work is suffering and everything else is as well.
I really need to get a grip on my self!
I go to bed early last night and I miss everything! ROFL!
but it looks like you got tons of GREAT advise! I agree with scotland, dont talk to OWH or OW, take care of yourself today, do this one day at a time. You have to be strong, take your anger somewhere else either get on here and vent it out, or grab a stick and pound it on your bed. I know it sounds ridiculous but it works! Go on a run or a bike ride with your girls, do some activities threw out the day so you are not thinking about all of this mess. Do you have the day off? Just keep going Lisa! We know you can do it, stick to your plan!
{{{Lisa}}}
Lisa, did you start the meds yet..get them at the pharm and start them NOW!!! Listen, I completely understand what you are going thru...I know what it is like not to be able to control your emotions, I feel for you because I can completely relate to you.
People telling you to control your emotions...when they are almost completely out of your control...I think the anti-anxiety meds work quicker (is it something like ativan)....Hon, I didnt save my M...and its due to me doin the stuff you are doing. Right now, personally, I think the meds are the only thing that can control your emotions right now....Get them and take them NOW!
Thanks I am working on getting them! My PCP and my therapist are talking. Hopefully I can get them now! If not I will have to go to emergy care!
Yes, I truly beleive you need them asap...You remind me so much of myself and I know they will help you a great deal...
I think her sister and her husband knows but not sure about anything else!
This isn't good enough. You need to track down anyone on her side who can put pressure on the A. Get a list together.
Your H should have deleted his account himself. That fact that you did so is controlling and I can see where he would be miffed.
Exposure. Read about it and implement it. That's your first order of business, Lisa.
Thanks I am working on getting them! My PCP and my therapist are talking. Hopefully I can get them now! If not I will have to go to emergy care!
Lisa, you have GOT to remove yourself from this drama! Stop talking to OW and her H. Your WH is blaming you for any negative vibes that are occurring right now. You've got to remove yourself from that.
You are trying to control him and you can't do that. Only yourself. I won't rehash what other posters have said because they've already made their very good points. But I will say that it seems to me he is on the fence right now, and you're pushing him over to the other side. Remove yourself from this drama!
I was just orescribed Lexipro! So lets see how that goes!
Thats what I take, It works good for me....did they give you anything to calm you down like ativan or somthing?
Lets take this one day at at time.
today lets have you do this.
1. Dont talk about the A or your relationship to your husband.
2. Dont talk to OW and OWH
3. Start taking your medication to help you relax
4. After work go out with your girls, to the park, outside, etc have fun with your girls
5. Go for a run today or tonight, see if your girls want to come (how old are they?
6. Keep yourself busy today, so you don't have time to think about what is going on.
7. Dont think about what your husband is doing, just what YOU are doing.
8. If you talk to your husband only talk about the kids.
Lets just focus on this today, ok? But YOU HAVE TO FOLLOW threw lisa! You have to promise us that you will do your best today.
We know you can still save your marriage, but talking about the A and the relationship is messing everything up, he is not ready to choose what side he is on.
How can he cause all this drama and then blame me for everything!
Lisa, that's exactly WHY he causes all the drama. He pushes your buttons, you go nuts, and then he walks away and plays the poor little victim of his crazy insane wife.
Do you really not see this? You have to stop playing into his hands.
Oh, and as far as "I wouldn't mind if YOU dated someone else" is concerned: They all say that. It both excuses their conduct and drives you insane, which is what they want.
Stop playing into the hands of a cruel selfish wayward and his homewrecking girlfriend. You're giving them exactly what they want and it's working perfectly - for them.
Also: Did you tell WH that OWH has threatened him? Did you notify the police?
Stop talking to either OW (especially) or OWH. Just warn WH and then shut it off.
If you cannot get in to see your regular doc today, then yes, go to the ER. Tell them what's going on and have them give you Ativan. Lexapro will take at least 2-3 weeks to kick in. Ativan works right away to kill the anxiety and let you calm down.
Also: Did you tell WH that OWH has threatened him? Did you notify the police?
Stop talking to either OW (especially) or OWH. Just warn WH and then shut it off.
If you cannot get in to see your regular doc today, then yes, go to the ER. Tell them what's going on and have them give you Ativan. Lexapro will take at least 2-3 weeks to kick in. Ativan works right away to kill the anxiety and let you calm down.
That's what I missed - did OWH threaten Lisa?
No, but he threatened her WH to lisa....
They will not give me ativan because it is to addictive.
I was just told that my mdeication costs $125 dollars! I want to just cry
I can not afford that in anyway!
Jeez, lisa I am sorry the med thing is not workin out for you...goodness!....Can you fill half the script for now and half later? I wish I could help you more, I just know the ativan would help you so much....Did you ask if there was anything similar that you could take that wasnt addicitive....I take trazedone. I am not sure if that is in the same category though, but I think it is faster acting....
{{{{lisa}}}}
They will not give me ativan because it is to addictive.
I used it in small amounts (0.5 mg once or twice a day) and had no trouble. ALL of that stuff is addictive, including the ADs and including Lexapro. Xanax is even worse (and I thought Xanax was horrible anyway.)
You just have to be aware of the addictive properties of something like Ativan and not abuse it. As I said, it's all addictive.
I was just told that my mdeication costs $125 dollars! I want to just cry
I can not afford that in anyway!
Talk to your pharmacist. There are programs out there that may be able to help you financially.
I was just told that my mdeication costs $125 dollars! I want to just cry
I can not afford that in anyway!
Tell the docs that you cannot afford that. Ask them to put you on a GENERIC version of something. They do it all the time.
I took 0.5 of ativan also....I took it a did not get addicted, no problems getting off of it...I just dont get why they wont give you something for NOW!
There is no generic for lexapro, sadly...but maybe they can prescribe you something else. There are so many...I think Lexapro is just the drug companies "new" thing right now...they can give you something else that has a generic.
This situation is more than I can process right now!
Really, lisa...You need to make an appt with a Psychiatrist, that will give you the meds you need.
Hang in there lady! I know its difficult, lets just try to get this day threw!
Have appointment for next week
Okay, that is GREAT.....They will give you what you need!!!!! Now we just got to get you through this week.
Now we just got to get you through this week
And we will do that one hour at a time. You CAN do this. You WILL do this.
Like Mark said, just focus on meeting ENs and NOT LBing. That's IT. No worries. I KNOW YOU CAN DO THIS.
Lisa --
Stop having conversations with you husband until you understand how to handle him via Plan A.
Just take a break.
Everything he is saying to you right now is trying to convince you that his thinking is right. He's trying to justify all the reasons for leaving you. The reality is that he has handled all of this HORRIBLY WRONG. He's provoking you into fighting with him or having angry outbursts because then that helps him build his case against you. Its almost like you are an accomplice to his destruction!
You have to stop listening to him! This is really really critical. You cannot absorb his CRAP.
Watch his ACTIONS not his WORDS. He's calling you. He's coming over. Those are actions. Stop listening to his wayward BABBLE.
When you really get the hang of Plan A, you will use every interaction with him to make him fall more in love with you.
Use YOUR POWER. And if you feel like you are about to lovebust -- GET OFF THE PHONE. You should be the one to end every phone call. Leave him wanting more...
If for some reason you are in a bad mood, sad mood, or don't feel like you can work your plan at the moment -- DON'T ANSWER THE PHONE! Or get away from him if he is there!
From this moment on, WH only gets to see Bright Shiny Lisa.
Get it?
Flirt with your husband.
Admire him.
Be sweet.
Be thoughtful.
Have appointment for next week
Okay, but a week can be a long time in a sitch like this.
Do not hesitate to go to the ER *today* for something like Ativan. They will write for it and I got mine for $4.00 at Wal-Mart pharmacy.
He called me to get me to renew his motorcyle registration!
I was very shocked after the fight we had but I called him abck after my meeting ended and said no problem I will do it for you.
He was very cold on the phone amd then said thank you and I said no problem and hung up!
Havent called him or texted him since!
See, one step at a time...you handled that well.
I think maybe some antural remedies for anxiety can help?
Any suggestions? If not I will have to get a script at the ER
Yeah, natural remedies help....But at this moment you are beyond that....If you can, go to the ER...You need something, this situation is traumatic...Its like a sudden death..you need something now.
And dont be afraid to let go in there...if you feel like crying dont hold back...I was a mess.
I feel like he is looking at me like a ticking time bomb!
You're right, he is.
He's using your behavior to justify his.
So take that ammunition away from him.
Did you read my previous post to you?
Yes I did I am going to do this! I just wish I could keep my anxiety and panic in check!
Lisa,
Get a friend or family member to come and help you!
You also need to get at least one good night's worth of sleep soon or you'll have massive health problems before long.
Mark
I think maybe some antural remedies for anxiety can help?
Any suggestions? If not I will have to get a script at the ER
ER, Lisa. Go now - they can confirm that you have an appt with your dr and can give you something for anxiety.
My mom called my cousin who is a doctor and he is sending me a script for something to help me sleep and for anxiety...
He said they wont be heavy duty but they will help untill I can get to my doctor! I will try those and then if they do not work then I will go to the ER tomorrow.
My mom called my cousin who is a doctor and he is sending me a script for something to help me sleep and for anxiety...
He said they wont be heavy duty but they will help untill I can get to my doctor! I will try those and then if they do not work then I will go to the ER tomorrow.
Good girl. Take as prescribed. Don't take more than it says to take. I know you're not a baby, sorry! "If one works okay, two will work better" is never a good idea.
I just want my mind to stop racing and the what ifs to stop!
thant all I want to be able to work the program!
I just want my mind to stop racing and the what ifs to stop!
thant all I want to be able to work the program!
Hopefully the medication will help you.
About controlling our thoughts, Steve Harley gave me the analogy of dodging waves, and it's been helpful. He said when a wave is approaching, we typically don't dive right into it nor allow it wash us away; instead, we kind of let it go around us so it impacts us the least.
We should approach the mind games and negative thoughts the same way. We know they're coming, but try to let them roll past you by having a predetermined, alternate topic to think about in it's place. Keep a list in your pocket if you must.
This has helped me a great deal. What a difference a week makes!
I want to thank all of you for getting me through the day!
Today was a tough one!
I have my meds one for the anxiety /depression one to sleep!
Anyways ended the day on a good note! Spent the afternoon with my sister and she was very understanding since she was in plan A for 7 yrs but for her she ended up hating her husband and divorced! She told me when I am ready to either move on or let go I will know. She also told me to have very clear boundaries when I go to plan B..... She told me kill him with kindness do not let him have any reason to justify his behavior.
He came over when she was there and went upstairs. I followed He was in the computer room frustrated since he never remembers passwords. I went over and said are you having issues Ill enter it for you. Entered it and backed off...He then asked me did you want something and I said yes your insurance cards arrived.
I then turned and went downstairs.... he followed like 5 minutes later..I gave him his motorcycle registration and insurance cards answered his questions about my meds! All very cordial ...
I then asked him if he was going to ride it home tonight and he said yes and went to bring it out.
my sister was like wow you are good its almost like nothing is wrong just a typical day! Then I just kept having conversation with my sister and my kids we laughed and enjoyed ourselves..
he parked the bike out front and we kept talking while he just watched us.
I asked about the leash for the dog.. He then took the dog to the car he was like i think i have it!
He then stood by the steps infront of the house waching us talking as if nothting was wrong.. hethen sat down on the steps!
I told my sister Im going to drive you home since WH is here.
I gathered my thing and said Ill be back and got in the car.
The whole time he kept looking at me with a whats she up to expression....
So I drove her home and stayed at her house for 2o minutes... On my way back he send me a text
Are you on your way back I will be leaving soon!
I just ignored it and when I pulled up he was standing outside with the kids.
I got out of the car and sat on the porch chair... and started texting my friend .... He was just standing there silently
I looked up and said you know it looks like its going to rain are you sure you want to take the bike?
He looked at me and was like you know what Im checking the comp for the weather..... I said oh ok and kept texting
He came back out and was like yeah its going to rain Im putting it away!
I said oh ok bye... since he had already said his goodbyes to the kids! He didnt say anything and I repeated a very cheerful goodbye....
I am not leaving yet he said just putting the bike away!
He came back and stood on the porch looking at the street.
I looked up and was like are you going to our daughters 8th grade program tomorrow I cant get off work.
He said yes and I told him good she will like that ... and kept lookig at my phone....
He said Im leaving... I said ok bye very cheerfully!
I didnt discuss anything but superficial things and kept it very cheerful and I also made sure I was casual but cute...
He has not called or texted since but I know he was very surprised by my cheerful detachment!
Very proud of my self for this! Resubmitting plan A maybe next week!
For now just taking it a day at a time!
Way to go Lisa -- excellent control!
Now try to find ways to meet his needs. Right now you have him impressed with your emotional control. Next is to make him WANT you.
Flirt....Admire....then detach, just like you did tonight!
Leave him wanting more....
YA!! That post made me smile!
Keep that up then he will be wanted to come by a lot more!! But remember no LB or talk about the relationship!
Your doing so good Lisa! I'm so proud!
(((((lisa))))))
good job lisa.
Well Lisa I am HAPPY. GOOD FOR YOU. You made it through today. Do you think you could do it again tomorrow? I think you CAN. Like Lexxxy said. Do what she suggests and you WILL be doing Plan A, NOW. Not next week. You are going to do it NOW. Doesn't that sound fantastic? The sooner you can get a GREAT Plan A, the sooner it can be over.
I think I can, I think I can
I am going to do this!
Just keep it up -- one day at a time.
And when you are feeling restless or anxious, come HERE.
People will be here to coach you through it.
We will keep you focused on YOUR PLAN instead of calling OW or OWH or something else that will sabotage your great efforts!
So -- give us some clues about your WH.
What was it like when you were falling in love? How can we help recreate that? What do you suspect his most important emotional needs are?
Discovering what those are, and finding new ways to meet his needs will be the whole basis of your plan A. Lets make this FUN!
Did you notice his ACTIONS tonight? He didn't want to leave.
He wanted to interact with you.
You did GREAT!
Yes but I don't want to read to much into it! He probably is watching me to see how I am emotionally but I guess that is better than nothing.
I forgot to tell you he did aske me if I was still going to the gym!
I said not today but tomorrow! He said that's good keep up your routine!
I have lost a total of 29lbs! Suffering the worlds greatest diet! Do you think I can sell it?
I am not sure but I know he craves acceptance and understanding, admiration, appreciation, I think conversation but thats a bit hard for me right now!
When we met and through out the years we always laughed alot together and always had discussions about us our friends...
The one thing was we always did things together but we kind of got out of that over the years...
When we met we talked about anything and everything for hours.. he has always felt like he had to do things on his own without any support from his family.
He comes from an abusive home dad was an addict/alcoholic mom put up with it for 9 or 10 yrs and then jumped into another abusive relationship.. he ran away at 14 and had worked for everything we have had ever since
We met and I was 16 and he was 18 and we just clicked its funny because he comes from a very different background than I...
We both came from broken homes I was more neglected and he was abused....
He has always been a protector especially of his sibligs because of the abuse they had to endure.... He feeld he abandoned his brother when he ran away and has always carried that
BTW his dad did try to kill him and his brother when he was 18 He told me this and was devastated because he had to call 911 and his dad ended up in the state hospital for like 60 days!
He has had it rough but somehow he always rose to the top!
He always made me laugh and he was the one who could calm my anxiety! I have always been prone to anxiety and panic!
I just cant say enough! I know that when he isnt foggy this will be hard for him to process! He will internalize the guilt like he always does! If and when it lifts!
He also said he feels like he is a failure for not going to college and being a working class person!
I dont see anything wrong with an honest days work!
Lisa,
I just stumbled upon your thread and read about your medication problem.
I'm a pharmacist and just wanted to let you know that a Lexapro (escitalopram) prescription is usually changed to Celexa (citalopram), when it isn't covered by insurance. They're the same chemical, only Lexapro is a bit stronger because it contains only the active isomer, instead of both. Celexa is available generically and costs only $4 per month.
You can ask your pharmacist to call the doctor who wrote your prescription and have it changed...
Men often get sucked into affairs trying to be the knight in shining armour. Sounds like your husband might have a touch of that.
So in that instance make sure you do the damsel-in-distress-routine.
Find some chore around the house that needs to be done -- then watch him do it and appreciate him....admire him....thank him.
Have you read about the top 10 Emotional Needs?
The Most Important Emotional Needs
As soon as I realized that a large Love Bank balance triggered the feeling of love, I went to work trying to discover what spouses could do for each other that would make the largest Love Bank deposits. I would ask couples, "What could your spouse do for you that would make you the happiest?" That very question focused on a core issue in marriage -- the issue of care. I could have asked the question, "How would you like your spouse to care for you?" As it turns out, care in marriage is doing what it takes to make each other happy.
When you were married, you and your spouse both promised to care for each other, and you expected that care from each other. You were in love, and you were highly motivated to make each other happy. But it might not have occurred to you at the time that if you didn't care for each other the right way, you might lose your love for each other. And along with your loss of love, you might lose your willingness to care for each other.
At the time, you probably did not know what caring for each other the right way meant. You thought that your commitment to care for each other would be sufficient to sustain your love. Even today, you may still be in the dark as to what it takes to care for each other the right way.
If that's the case, let me explain to you what care in marriage is: To care the right way, you must make large Love Bank deposits. And I've found that the best way to make those deposits is to meet each other's most important emotional needs.
What is an emotional need? It is a craving that, when satisfied, leaves you with a feeling of happiness and contentment, and, when unsatisfied, leaves you with a feeling of unhappiness and frustration. There are probably thousands of emotional needs. A need for birthday parties, peanut butter sandwiches, Monday Night Football, I could go on and on. Some people have some of those needs while others have different needs. If you feel good doing something, or if someone does something for you that makes you feel good, an emotional need has been met.
But not all emotional needs are created equally. When some are met, you may only feel comfortable--they make small Love Bank deposits. There are others, however, that can make you feel downright euphoric. In fact they make you so happy that you're likely to fall in love with the person that meets them. I call those our most important emotional needs because they make the largest Love Bank deposits of all. And those are the very same emotional needs that a husband and wife expect each other to meet in marriage.
By now you can probably see where I'm headed. My first goal when counseling a couple is to help them identify their most important emotional needs. Once those needs are identified, I help them learn to meet those needs for each other. I want them to make the largest deposits possible into each other's Love Banks. If all goes well, they begin making those large deposits and eventually they are in love with each other.
When I first began using this approach to saving marriages, I didn't know what made people the happiest in marriage -- I didn't know what emotional needs would be the most important. So I had to ask hundreds of men and women that question, "What could your spouse do for you that would make you the happiest?"
As spouses explained what they wanted most, I classified their desires into emotional need categories. And almost all those I interviewed described one or more of only ten emotional needs as being most important to them (admiration, affection, conversation, domestic support, family commitment, financial support, honesty and openness, physical attractiveness, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment). Very few ever named a most important emotional need that was not included in this list of ten.
I also made a revolutionary discovery that helped me understand why husbands and wives tended not to meet each other's most important emotional needs. Whenever I asked couples to list their needs according to what they needed most, men would list them one way and women the opposite way. Of the 10 emotional needs, the five listed as most important by men were usually the five least important for women, and vice-versa.
What an insight! It is no wonder that husbands and wives have so much difficulty meeting each other's needs: They lack empathy. They are willing to do for each other what they appreciate the most, but it turns out that their efforts are misdirected. What they appreciate the most, their spouses appreciate the least!
Pay close attention to this next point I am about to make, because it is one of the most misunderstood aspects of my entire program.
Everyone is unique. While men on average pick a particular set of five emotional needs as their most important and women on average pick another set of five, any given man or woman can and do pick various combinations of the ten. So even though I know the most important emotional needs of the average man and woman, I don't know the emotional needs of any particular husband or wife.
I'm in the business of trying to save all marriages, not just average marriages, so I encourage each couple to ignore what I say about average male and female needs and identify those that are unique to them. That way each spouse's list of the most important emotional needs reflects what he or she appreciates the most. When they meet those needs for each other, they create the greatest happiness, and trigger a mutual feeling of love.
These conclusions are reflected in my book His Needs, Her Needs where I explain how couples build romantic love by learning how to meet each other's most important emotional needs. Readers are encouraged to identify these needs by using the Emotional Needs Questionnaire that I provide at the back of the book. Then I encourage them to become experts at meeting those needs. This questionnaire is also available to you on this website. Just click, Emotional Needs Questionnaire, to discover the most important emotional needs for you and your spouse. Be sure to print two copies so you and your spouse each have one.
Before you fill out the questionnaire read a short description of each need that I've provided for you so that you will be accurate in the choices you make.
Affection
Sexual Fulfillment
Conversation
Recreational Companionship
Honesty and Openness
Physical Attractiveness
Financial Support
Domestic Support
Family Commitment
Admiration
Once you have identified each other's most important emotional needs, your next step is to learn how to meet them. I've written several Q&A columns to help you achieve that objective. Listed below are some of those columns.
Affection
How to Meet the Need for Affection
Sexual Fulfillment
How to Meet the Need for Sexual Fulfillment
Changing a Willingness to Make Love into a Desire to Make Love
How to Overcome Pain During Intercourse?
How to Overcome Sexual Aversion?
What to Do When Your Spouse Has an Addiction to Pornography
Conversation
What to do When Your Conversation Becomes Boring and Unpleasant
Recreational Companionship
Why Should a Couple Be Together When They Are the Happiest?(Part 1)
What to Do When Your Recreational Companionship Becomes Boring and Unpleasant (Part 1)
What to Do When Your Recreational Companionship Becomes Boring and Unpleasant (Part 2)
This is where I am a little stuck on correctly judging his emotional needs right now.
Plus he has pulled back from me somewhat since he doesnt text me as often or call me as often
Should I invite him over for dinner?
Help him wash clothes?
I could ask him to teach me to ride the motorcycle once I get the permit!
Wont he see though my plan as excuses to get him over here?
Its the weekend and this will be hard for me since he will be out and about!
What can I do to get him to spend time with us over the weekend?
Morning, Lisa. The hardest and most important part to grasp about Plan-A is that it is about you. It gives you control over a life that seems to be spiraling out of control. You are initiating change in the only one that you can change, you.
I think at this point it will be a very good thing if you do not hear from him for a few days. It will give you a chance to settle down and focus on you. My advice would be do not call or text him. Respond cheerfully if he contacts you but don't be in any hurry to resond. Don't tell him you love him or ask what he is doing or where he is going, it makes you appear clingy and needy.
Concentrate on Lisa, your children and you. Buy a new outfit for your 29 lbs lighter body, get a pedicure, buy a new book, change a room around or paint it. Plan a fun impromptu, out of the ordinary activity with your kids and give them your complete and total attention. I'm sure that this has been very difficult for them and they will be happy and feel safe to see there mom back the way they need her to be even if dad is gone.
I think Mark told you to look good and smell good. It will make you feel better. It will make your kids feel better and if WH drops over, it will keep him guessing. Don't focus on getting him to spend time with you over the weekend. Use that time to work on your transformation of you and your home. Your goal is to make you and your home warm, attractive, inviting and beckening. Next week when he starts stopping over, ask him to do a little job, express your appreciation and admiration for what he has done and just happen to have his favorite dinner ready when he is done.
Keep in mind, he may not stay. Cook with that possibility in mind. If he does, keep things light and fun. If he doesn't, sit down with your kids and enjoy the meal, ask about their day, make them feel loved and important and secure. It is hard not to have expectations for your WHs reaction to these changes but Plan A helps Lisa become a more attractive, independent person so watch for and enjoy the changes in you.
Self control is a beautiful thing. Read Sick of Limbo's thread and you will have the ultimate example in Plan A sel control. You can do this, Lisa but only if you learn to contol yourself and not be baited into confrontation. Act don't react!
God's Blessings,
Say
Found this while I was reading an article explaining plan A and plan B, didn't know if you had read that article yet but these two paragraphs I thought of you while I was reading them.
While I have seen remarkable success by people using plan A and plan B, success is by no means guaranteed. The problem with Plan B is that the unfaithful spouse may not return, nor agree to the plan for recovery, even after the affair has ended. Separation in marriage is always risky because, "out of sight, out of mind." Unless plan A leaves the wayward s pouse with the impression that returning home is an attractive choice, separation can become permanent. So before implementing plan B, you want to be sure that the last thing your spouse remembers about you is the care and thoughtfulness you offered in plan A. That way, the separation can help create, "absence makes the heart grow fonder."
As it turns out, most affairs end within six months of their seeing the light of day (being revealed to their family and friends), and almost all affairs end without leading to marriage. Even those few that end in marriage have only a 25% rate of success. That's because affairs are based on dishonesty and thoughtlessness for the feelings of others. That same dishonesty and thoughtlessness eventually turns on the lovers themselves, and the affair is destroyed by those same flaws that made it possible in the first place. What drives affairs is passion, not commitment, and once the passion wanes, there is nothing to help the lovers restore their passion. Marriage, on the other hand, especially with children, has many factors that motivate couples to restore their passion for each other after passion has waned. So when passion is gone from an affair, a wayward spouse is usually motivated to return to the betrayed spouse by all of these other factors. For most, it's a logical choice.
Hi All feeling soo good today!
I forgot to tell you my WH told me yesterday that he doesnt know who I am right because this person isnt his wife.... She is strong indeoendant and would have figured a way to get through this and try to work things out...... Just food for thought I didnt say anything just thought yes thats who I was before you tried to kill me!
My daughters 8th grade ceremony was today and I wasnt supposed to go but arranged my schedule at work to go ....
WH was not expecting me..... So I dressed to kill with some very tight fiting jeans and a pretty blue blouse... Did my make up hair and was smelling great! I came in and pretended I didnt see him right away and as I was walking by he looked at me and signaled to the chair next to him.
I gave him the biggest smile and asked if our daughter had received her award since i was a little late. He said yes and I was very dissapointed but all i said was oh I wanted to see her.
I made small pleasant talk and was happy and upbeat....
After a little while he asked me if I changed at home since he know I wear aan ugly uniform for work.
I was like no I took clothes to work..... He was slightly cold but I did not let that deter me I was happy and friendly like nothing was the matter....
We saw a video of the 8th grade prom and we just kept taking about how pretty our daughter was and we were surprised to see her dancing with a boy!!
I laughed and told him prepare yourself for 9th grade!He said I dont think so.....
I told him we have done a very good job with our daughter! I touched his hand and then he let me squeeze his fingers
I gave him a friendly rub on the back knowing he was feeling a little sad.. i asked him if he felt ok and he said Im fine so I just turned back and ejoyed the rest of the video I was up beat and followed the songs! I also commented that out other daughter was coming to middle school next school year .... how time flies huh!
I mentioned that I wanted to take the kids to the beach this weekend and he said we should while on vacation.... I said you are right and the kids also want to go to NY to see time square and the SOL
i asked him to take something to our other daughter at school which she forgot he said he would
Then I told him we had to pay bills and that i had cleaned the fridge but the freezer was still leaking.... I asked if he was going to stop by later so we could go over these things
He said he didnt know yet since he was taking the kids out after school...
I said ok I have to get back to work I gave him my camera so he could take a couple of pics with our daughter.
I then leaned over and told him that just looking at our daughter reminds me what a good father he has been and gave him a quick peck on the cheek and left!
I am sure he was left wondering what the heck is going on.
I am not going to contact him if he comes over well fine if not then I will keep myself busy this weekend.
Taking my meds and getting some rest!
Can some one bump sick of limbos thread I couldnt find it.
OMG!! YA!! Keep doing that!! You are actually in a plan NOW!! Doesn't that feel great??
Your focused! That is the ONE thing that he will notice, you are determined to fix this marriage where as before you were all over the place and you wouldn't listen to anyone, and to see this change in you lisa makes me soo happy!
We all know you can do this!
Now go to bed and get some rest
{{{LISA}}}
Thanks I am focused because I value my familly way to much to just give up right now! Plus I realzied all I was doing was making the situation 10 times worse
I will do plan A and then Plan B and with gods help go from there!
I will do plan A as long as I can
Lisa, I just made it through your thread. Just wanted to pop in and say ~ Bravo! You are doing great! What a turn-around!
Plan A was the hardest thing I have ever done in my life. I am very emotional, and I acted like a crazy woman when I discovered the A. Thank goodness I found this place. Plan A really helped me land on my feet a better person and W in the end, mainly in terms of learning how to avoid Lbers...so for that I am thankful.
A couple of things I did during Plan A to help me keep my head on straight. I had "Plan A" notes and posts bookmarked here (should be easy for you, you've got so many good people posting to you) that I had to read before and after almost every interaction with my foggy WH. Having a solid plan is what got me through it. When I felt my emotions starting to bubble over, I would take a shower or tackle a chore or take a ride and listen to some music and cry. So have a couple strategies in place when you feel a LBer coming.
Lastly, have you seen the reverse fog talk? The reason I like it is because it puts you in the state of mind that you are going to get ridiculous crazy fog spewn on you...therefore (hopefully) you are prepared for it and don't react to it.
Hang in there!
No I havent can you bump it? of send me the link?
Lisa, I bumped Sick of limbos thread is a few threads down its call "want a new start she doesnt" or sumthing like that.....
Lisa,
What a turn around! I KNEW you had it in you once you got your emotions under control. So, so proud of you.
lisa, i'm so proud of you, you are so on the right track, it's a combo, of looking strong and sweet at the same time, being a great mom, looking sexy, smelling great and fulfilling some of his needs to hear he is a great man, father.
Keep yourself busy and when the opportunity is there to show him what he will be losing.....go all out.....
I know this works myself, I did exactly what you are starting to do, and low and behold, the OW and that life he thought he wanted is over and he is being a great man, husband and father.......
It may take a while, but after a couple of months of him being used to the new me, I guess the me I should have been all along.....when I backed off a little, he came to me, he didn't want to lose the new relationship we were having and the feelings he was getting from it......I thought about it this way, I didn't want my marriage to end, and if it didn't work, I wouldn't have to question myself if I had tried everything possible to fix what was wrong......I was willing to put myself out there one last time and if I got hurt so be but that would be the end.....It all worked out for me and I hope for you as well....
You will have weak moments, but take a deep breath and don't let him see it for now, when he is more aware of what kind of pain this has cause you then you can talk about that but for now....work on forgiveness and just understanding each other......
Good job, Lisa. This forum is such an awesome resource for support and guidance.
That is exactly what I want!
I just have to keep going one day at a time!
I want to be the best I cant be not only for myself but for the relationship as well! I can think about the future right now other than than how to get through these days!
THat is a great way to think about it, lisa....concentrate on the prize...a chance at happily recovered M.
Thats exactly what I want I just hope he comes to his senses sooner than later! Feeling a little panicky since he hast texted or called me all day after the graduation this morning!
I know he is at our house right now with the kids but I am a little anxious about the fact he hast tried to contact me all day!
Is that normal for him to do that?
I mean he texted me yestrday for stupid stuff but then nothing after he left!
Everything is normal for a stupid Waynerd......Listen, Stop those little wheels in your head from turning, K?
Lisa,
stop worrying about what he is doing. In Plan A you have to assume he is wayward, that is why you are in plan A. Push those panicky thoughts aside and think of something that will distract you.
yes I found an unfamiliar number and it turned out to be his friends ...........
I played it off like I had a unfamiliar phone in my cell and just was friendly and said oh maybe it was my husband that called from my phone and she laughed and was like probably because my husband uses my phone all the time!
Im hoping he doesnt find out!!!!!!
1 huge step back
HELP totally need to stay on track!!!!!!!
Lisa.....Now what would have happened if OW answered, you would have been upset and prolly DJd and AOd or said something (not nice) to OW....Listen you are just trying to get a nice quick but effective Plan A in....No more calling strange #s okay?
I dont think he will find out but if he does NO DJ or AO....Just an apology, k?
I am a nervous wreck I dont think she will say anything to her hubby since i was acting totally perplexed and said sorry for bothering you!
But still knew it was wrong and now Im having anxiety!
No, anxiety.....You are fine...If he finds out just calmly and cooly apologize. You are gonna be fine...Dont get yourself worked up okay, that will only make it worse...Relax..
![[Linked Image from pic4ever.com]](http://www.pic4ever.com/images/healer.gif)
its ok I just spoofed my caller to make it seem like they called me first!
Really??? Okay, okay.....remember...RELAX! Breathe! You are gonna be fine.
![[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]](http://bestsmileys.com/cold/11.gif)
Chill, Lisa...
The point of having a plan is to know what to do and then do the next thing that is part of the plan no matter what WH does or says.
Your focus needs to be
Meeting his ENs as much as he allows,
Avoiding Love Busters,
Controlling your own expectations and reactions.
That's about it...
Try to avoid doing things that are not part of your plan since freelancing stuff on the fly seldom goes well until you have a set of options that you can pull from that are proven winners.
Mark
lisa, you have done incredibly well. Think about how you felt the day before yesterday. If you can't remember, read some of your posts. Don't let all of that HARD work that you did yesterday and today go to waste. It was HARD, right? Even if you have a slip, it's not over. The only thing is, you will feel worse. You CAN do this.
Lisa
It might help your state of mind if you just ASSUME he is in contact. For now stop snooping, it is not helping you.
I am ok He was home when I got there and we went over bills. I told him it would be easier if I just opened an account and he just gave me a set amount each week this way I don't have to be telling him how much he can have every week. This also avoids LB since he don't have to feel like I am monitoring his spending.
Also I invited him to dinner very causally and he declined so I was ok kids lets go!
I walked him out and was talking about my test tomorrow. He told me to go early so I dont have to be there all day! He told me good luck because he knew I would pass!
I didnt ask him what his plans were for tomorrow or anything!
I did feel a little rejected because we used to be extremely affectionate kisses touches, all those things and he just said ok bye ....
I miss him sooo much! But I have my eye on the winning the war!
So another night to get through!
Im going to the movies with my girlfriend sooo wish me luck that I will be ok tonight!
I know I stopped looking at the phone bill for a while and i think i will continue to do so! Besides he knew I was monitoring the bill so i think he wont be that stupid right now!
Oh trust me waywards are STUPID...but anyway, I am so glad you are keeping busy and going out with a friend...have fun...Listen I still miss my WH more than the world, it still brings tears to my eys.....but I did a horrible Plan A because I didnt find MB until a few months later and when I did find it, I tried so hard like you but I was horrible at it. It was so so....
My point is not to do what I did, my M is not recovered...I want you to have a better chance than I did....I want you to do the best Plan A we can get you through, but just keep thinking, the more you LB and such, the less of a chance and you will end up like me....
I am 5.5 months into Plan B and there are times when I read others' posts and I think that I didn't do ENOUGH. Tht I wasn't good enough in my Plan A. During those times, I re-read my own thread. Then I read my journals from that time and I see that I did the best that I could. Now I know better and I would DO better.
Just remember that this Plan A will be temporary. You will move on to Plan B. Part of Plan A is also getting ready for Plan B. I know that you already have a letter. You are getting your finances in order. This is good. You will be ready as soon as you need to pull the plug on this Plan A.
Do you have an end date for Plan A?
I wanted to do it for at least 3 to 4 weeks...... Or as long as I can!
This is soooooo hard just thinking about him!
Have not called or texted him!
Just making it through today!
Will see about tomorrow!
One day at a time. At night, I want you to give yourself a little checklist.
Today, did I......
1. Sleep?
2. eat?
3. Do something for myself to release stress? (exercise, scream at a wall, write in my journal)?
4. take my meds as prescribed?
5. Dress to the nines and wear makeup?
6. Take care of the kiddos?
7. Try to meet my WH's ENs?
8. Avoid LBs?
9. Learn something about relationships?
10. Remember to relax?
11. "catch" myself thinking about OW and NOT calling her?
12. When I felt anxious, I calmed myself down?
I think that is a GREAT list to stick to until the end of your Plan A. Add things to it if you can. You CAN do this. You ARE doing this. Keep it up.
Last night was sooooooooooooo hard! I went out with my girlfriend and she kept telling me was let him go! He isnt coming back, He told me he is trying to let you go but you wont let him!
She set me back so much I was so optimistic yesterday and now I am a mess I couldn't even sleep! I obsessed the whole night as to where he was and that he hadn't texted me or called me!
My sister got me through the night.... she told me dont call or text him.... its just going to make things worse....
you dont know what he is thinking! He might be thinking about you as well but you need to relax and sleep because then tomorrow you will be a mess.
I need help getting through today and sticking to my plan!
Still haven't called or anything ..........
Just hanging on right now.........
lisa123prpe,
That was the hardest part for me as well, I wanted to fix everything right then and there as quickly as possible.....
I went to a therapist and he said, look you can't fix everything and right now you are not equipped emotionally to make any big decisions....he wanted me to just live one day at a time.
I wanted to talk about fixing all the time. leaving him alone to do his thinking was hard for me......Do the best Plan A you can do, take care of yourself and let him mull over in his mind the new woman he sees in you.....Remember he loved you for a reason, that just doesn't go away even though someone else is in the picture.....
Slowly he will think of you more and more and the possibilities with a life with you....
Let him miss you and your life, opening your own account is a good idea, it separates your life a little and he will look at it like he is losing you a little....
He might not like that because right now he has both worlds filling his needs if he thinks one might really end it might jolt him into some reality and out of the foggy mess he is in now....
Stay strong, smell sweet, look good and be a soft place for him to land. he will eventually see what a great place that is going to be......
((((hugs)))))
Lisa, Dont let other people get you down (like your friend). I think we have all had people that said forget it, dump him....Just politely tell your friend you dont want to talk about your M or the A right now...you went out with her to get your mind off of that stuff for a few hours...
Other people, family and friends...that dont support what you are doing, tell them to quit talking about it...They dont know about MB and that your M does have a good chance to be R...You have children, to me that alone makes this M worth saving.
This is YOUR life, not theirs.....They have no idea what they would do in the same sitch....
The people who are telling you that are really trying to help you, they just don't know how. They mean well. You are going to have to get stronger in your convictions of MB to be able to hold them off. I don't think you are there yet, so do what Still says and just tell them that you don't want to talk to them about it.
Your friend talks to your WH? I would probably avoid talking to her about MB or your plans with WH. Can she be trusted not to tell him? If you aren't sure, I would just keep things like that to yourself. Especially all of the Plan B plans. You don't want WH to find out about your Plan B until the day you execute it. It has to be like a shock and awe.
Now the reason that your WH isn't calling or texting you as much now is a GOOD thing. You see, before you were playing into his hands and he could justify what he was doing because of your actions. Right now, you are doing things that are confusing him. Poor little wayturd mind can't get his head around it. So what he is doing is trying to figure out what is going on. He feels uncomfortable when you are so upbeat and happy(only from the outside, but right now, that's all that matters.) He doesn't want to feel uncomfortable, so he avoids you when he doesn't understand. Just keep it up. You must be doing an even better job than you think.
Now, could you trust your sister with MB? If so, why don't you tell her about this site and this forum and tell her to read your thread. I did that with a couple of my friends while I was in Plan A, so they could see what posters were telling me and support me in the ways that I needed. If I deviated from my plan or my thinking at all, they would get me back on track. I think your sister can be that for you. She just needs to know what you are trying to follow so she can help you better.
Just keep it up. You CAN do this. You are doing a GREAT job.
I had a tough day and my sister again got me though it!
I got up early and was obsessing about him!
I took my kids to my sisters and went to the DMV to take my motorcycle permit test! While there he texted me to say good luck I said thank you and that I was nervous! He told me i would be fine!
I passed and texted him that i passed he said congrats.
Then stayed for 2 hrs waiting for them to get me paperwork!
That was the hardest time for me I wanted to text him and all i did was fidget for those 2 hrs to keep me from contacting him.
I was strong enough not to text him most of the day! I only texted him when he texted me or one time because my daughter asked me if he was coming to see them so I asked. He said he could take them out to day or tomorrow but he would definitely pass by to see them today and tomorrow! I said ok
i went a got my sister and took her around since she is pregnant to but baby clothes and all kinds of chores!
He texted me asking me where everyone was at and I told him I was out doing errand that I would be back in 15
BTW my sister kept taking my phone away every time I wanted to text him!
I then went back to the house but he wasnt there I was very disappointed and then I received the text from him saying he left and that he would go by later.
I then spent the day with my sister and she talked to me and we went to stores and we did laundry! And she kept telling me to relax
She said to me you know this is going to end one way or another you can be calm and take care of yourself or you can be stressed out and get sick! Either way this will not be forever!
WH sent text asking if we were home because he was going to stop by at 4:45.... I said yes ......... Around 530 I was wondering if he was still coming
My sister told me to text him and tell him i had plans but I told her no Im not going to because I dont want it to seem like im trying to find out what he is doing!
I started cooking and my son asked me to throw a football around with him! I normally don't do this but what the heck.... We ended up having a blast and the game turned into a huge water fight even the dog got wet.
WH arrives during this exchange and is looking at us like we are crazy... He has a very weird expression on his face....
My son tell me to ask his dad about football....
I told him he needs you to teach him because I do not know how to throw the ball .....
He then said he is going inside and I stay in the back yard .... after about 10 minutes I look up and see him in the computer room window....
I yell up to him to bring down towels!
He sais in a minute....
The kids are shivering so I just run up to get the towels and change.... as I walk by the computer room I look in and he is like a deer in the headlights with his facebook login up! I continue on my was and change into a cover up and pull my hair back into a bun..... I look very relaxed and cute!
He tell me I would have taken that to you! I come into the comp room and say oh that's ok the kids were cold! He is now on craigs list looking at motorcycle helmets for sale!
I casually ask him how his day was and he sighs ans said it was very boring..... I said oh ok while he is texting in front of me i couldnt really see who but i wasnt going to ask of look at the phone... I walked out to help my son get ready I keep up a stream of happy chatter and go in and out of the room acting normal as if he isnt there on the comp when he should be with th kids!
I go downstairs and my son and daughter are upset because he wont comedown! I tell my son go tell your day to play a game ok..... He comes back and said he will later
He comes down and I am outside with my son because he is sad due to a friend moving away .... I am holding my son giving him love and kisses and we start talking about the water fight.....
I say to my WH do you remember when we had that huge water balloon fight that continued into the house and you were yelling while throwing balloons at us not to wet the tV? I laughed and he said yes..... The whole exchange he was holding our dog and avoiding eye contact...... He is still texting but I refuse to even acknowledge the fact.... Then he gets a call and is giving someone directions to our house..... I asked him who he gave our address to and he said a guy selling a helmet for my bike.....
I say ok and go to my car to get a case of juice which is heavy.... He is still on the phone while I struggle to get the juce and close the hatch..... He looks over and tells me to leave it open he will get it.... I say can you get the juive its very heavy and I can carry it.... He got off the porch and brings it in... I say thanks....
Guy gets there is showing him the helmet and he calls me over to ask what I think , do i like it, is it a good price....
I go over there and am as agreeable as peach pie... i even elaborate saying how nice it is and everything else.....
He buys it and then goes to wash his bike... I tell my son go help daddy..... Which then he does ....
He comes back in and starts playing video games with my son....
I tell him Im going to get my daughter and say that she told me that they were going to get ice cream he said oh yeah...
I go and come back and he is fiddling with the new helmet... I sit down and ask him all sorts of questions about what he is doing ect... He then get up and puts it all away.... I go to the porch with my sister and he tells the kids lets go... My middle daughter tell him she doesnt want anything... and I see he is upset that she wont go .... As he is getting ready to pull out I hug her and tell her just go for the ride he is trying very hard...
I know he saw me say something to her and then she jumped in the car....
Then he send my daughter to ask if anyone wants a sunday.... We tell them yes 3 more since my sister is here with hers but I decline ....
They get back and my son runs up to me and said here is yours! I was happy for about 5 seconds when WH said oh thats not for you!
I say oh thats ok I just thought you guys bought me one anyways.... My sister jumps in and sais but you dont want sweets remember!
I say oh yeah
He then said I got exactly what you asked for 7 Sundays!
I said ok i didnt want icecream! and keep talking to my sister
He stood quietly eating his icecream....
He then tells me that we were invited to a picnic tomorrow I tell him I do not know If i want to go but he can take the kids if he wants..... He then tells me we can all go....
I go back out side and he starts saying his goodbyes...
We stand awkwardly outside and he asks me if i went to the gym I said not today ... did you go yesterday and I say yes I have.... I say the lady weighed me and told me to slow down...
He said yes you have lost like 30 lbs keep up the good work!
I tell him I have a goal..
I tell him i don't know If I want to go tomorrow and he tells me well its not like they don't know! He asks me if i signed up for the motorcycle safety class and i said not yet he told me to hurry before they fill up!
He said ok by Ill see you tomorrow I say very cheerfully ok bye!
My sister goes to me I dont know how you can just act like nothing is wrong!
I tell her I have a plan and I refuse to give him any more ammunition! When I go into plan B he will know what he is loosing!
Your doing great! perfect Plan A!
I would actually go to the thing with him and the kids tomorrow though, that way he can see your change more
Thats why I mention to ask him if he wants to do a family dinner tomorrow night. Don't be afraid to spend time with him if he asks, cause if you shoot him down every time then he will stop asking. You are in plan A not plan B, spend time together as much as possible just dont bring up any relationship talk. No LB'S
I'm glad that you have your sisters support, and we are here to help you out also. Keep on keepin' on! Sapph and I are really proud at how you are handling yourself.
Thanks guys!
I wanted to go tomorrow but didnt know if it was a good idea!
Plus since he gave such a non committal answer..... like there is no reason for you not to go!
I would still go and have the best time with your husband, even if he texts and answer his phone! Just ignore them, and put on your great Plan A face!
We are cheering for you!
Well got through the nite with my sisters help! I was paniky and obsessive......
I went to the gym.... all I could think about was that he didnt call or text me ....
So I came home took a shower and gave my sister the phone
He sent me a text at 1230 saying he was coming to do wash... I didnt answer cause I didnt have my phone so he texted my daughter....
He then sent me a message if I wanted him to bring me food and what I wanted.... I said yes and asked for a Cesar salad.
I got dressed up in a summer dress kind of causal with flip flops did my hair and make up put on body spray...
He didnt react any particular way but I know I look very cute and sexy.....
I told him I was takin my sister home and came back and he was doing his wash and then came up to watch tv
He brought a movie and put in in to watch! I sat there with him and the kids for a while and then since it looked like it was going to rain asked if he was still interested in going to the picnic...
He said yes but that he wanted to finish his laundry first
and that I can wait for him or go ahead to see if we get ahead of the rain.... We talked about how to get there and I said I would leave first.
I said ok ill go with the kids well meet up over there right?
He said yes... I think it irritated him that i asked that so i just said ok bye!
Half way there it started pouring rain and thundering and lightning... we turned back and came home
He is still here going to ask if he wants dinner?
This is sooo hard especially when I know there are no guarantees and im trying not to read into his actions!
I spoke to my sister and she told me that over the years the way I spoke down to him and the way we never were very affectionate bothered her....
I was surprised because when I think about it she is right I was such a shrew to him... I think he might have just reached his tipping point which lead to depression, which lead to the EA in which he found acceptance, admiration, conversation, all the things we were lacking
No. The affair is 100% his fault.
YOU might not have met his needs but he could have TOLD YOU he was unhappy.
No. The affair is 100% his fault.
YOU might not have met his needs but he could have TOLD YOU he was unhappy.
This is true, lisa....
Well it stopped raining and he asked if we still wanted to go to the picnic... He assumed it was a yes and said we should take 2 cars in case so i can leave from there....
I said ok we went we got there and everyone was raving about how much weight I lost and how we were doing.....
It was sooo awkward at first... i told him this feels weird I think maybe I should go and he goes why just stay till the cake at least....
It took everything I had to not breakdown crying.... He was very detached and I kept sitting next to him getting very close and if he moved i moved over.... At one point he was very serious and I started looking at his face and making pretend I could see his eyes behind his eye glasses and he laughed said...like what are you looking at and I said your face...
he smiled and said why and I said cause i love the way your sunglasses look on your face its sexy! He got serious and i just laughed and said oh what no more smiles and he smiled but stepped back from me
He sat on the picnic bench and I sat next to him and just kept up the chatter ... at one point he went off with our dog to play and I followed and he was playing with the dog and I told him you know you said everyone know but I dont think so ... he said yes they do because my cousins mom mentioned something at the club on friday... I said oh I wonder who told her ... He said I dont know... I said nothing about him being out ....
Someone called him and he silenced the phone and he was texting....
I casually asked oh who called? He said no one and i was ok and walked away
We walked back to the picnic area as his grandfather asked us about our dog.
I watched him play catch with our son and sat next to him just getting some sun making small talk!
We then went to sing happy b-day and we just stood there together
you know small talk and i kept very close to him...
I took him a piece of cake and then our daughter asked us to shoot hoops..... so here i am in a dress and flip flops playing around the world with him... I start to flatter him about how good he is and asking him what i was doing wrong to show me
Then i go remember how much you loved to play I wonder why you stopped... he goes no reason.... I go to him remember when I used to watch you play and that neighborhood park.... He smiled and said I can remember something like that.... we were relaxed I kept telling my kids how good he is and keeping up the chatter and small talk about old times...
We then sat on a bench before we said our goodbyes... I asked are you coming back with us for dinner and he said no that he was leaving I said ok...
We walked back to the cars and he aid bye to the kids and said ill see you later...
He then made a gesture to me to go to the car because my son forgot his ball in the car.... I start looking at his face as if searching for something ... he goes what I said nothing im lookin at your face .. he smiled and said why I said cause I like it and then said bye and ran to my car!
He is driving behind me the whole time then call me to see if we want to go home and discuss the vacation... I said sure no problem
We sit on the porch discussing places we want to go like ocean city or the aquarium and I start saying oh my god remember hen we did this or went here we had so much fun! I kept bringing up trips and memories with our kids as well... he would say yes or no and just kept looking at amusement park prices....
We went inside because it was cold and he starts telling me how he feels I should pay for the vacation and was a little taken aback because when we separated we split the savings ... I didn't say anything right away... so we sat down at the table and he wouldn't look at me I said hey... and he was very short with me and was like what i can hear you ... i was so mad I got up and he was like what im listening but I just said oh nothing I gotta go to the bathroom....
I had to walk away because I was mad! I then came back and he was still talking about places we could go and i relaunched the memories attack! I asked him about ocean city after prom and he was rubbing his head like he had a headache I stopped and said are you ok and he said just thinking....
so i kept reliving memories and saying to him and my kids you remember what a great time or how funny that was and he said I remember the trips but not what we did or if we had fun.... It was like a knife in my heart.... I couldn't believe he couldn't remember the good times!
I let it roll off my back and was like oh it was so much fun and we did this and we drove that car ... after a while I just got up and was like i gotta go get my sister and he got up to leave .... I know he had plans because he went upstairs and changed his shirt... I said oh you must be cold ...
he said yes and i told him oh let me clean that spot you have something on your shirt.... We walked out together and he asked me where i was taking my sister and I told him as he got into the car i said to him listen ummm I think we should go 50/50 on the expenses ...
he goes well the income tax money you have was part mine and should be used.... I was very calm and said yes but when we separated you kept 3 other accounts ... he was like fine I know it was something he didn't like .... he said figure out how much we need and I will get money out plus my mom is willing to help out... I said great... I will see you later and goes bye and drives off... I did this with no LB, AO or DJ.... but I think it still bother him
He had asked me earlier today about why i was spending so much time with my sister since we had been estranged for 2 yrs... I told him because I am not willing to be that person anymore the only person I was hurting was me plus she is pregnant and I need her right now....
BTW I saw he keeps going into my facebook to look at my status and such!
YA!! My husband read your post and he was smiling through out the whole time I was reading it to him, although I already knew what happened since you told me this all on the phone, but I wanted him to read it!
We are so proud how well you are doing, wheels said "Man, if he doesn't change after the vacation, then he's a moron!" Anyway I think you are doing great, keep it up, then once your in plan B, he will know exactly what he'll be losing!
You're turning into a Plan A machine, Lisa...
This is sooo difficult I cried on the way home yesterday! Nighttime is the worst when you are alone with your thoughts
lisa123prpe,
I used to cry every time he left or I talked to him.........nighttime for me was also tough, I used to take gravol in the evening, helped me sleep........Just tried to stay busy doing little jobs that needed attending........
You are doing a great job, keep it up, work on yourself and pamper yourself whenever you get a chance.....
He is probably already thinking about his choice and whether he is making the right one......
Keep him thinking. Little touches and looks and gentle words.......makes him look at you differently.........He really loves you, he has just forgotten for the moment.....
The fog will lift eventually.......I think you go have the best vacation you can have, laugh, play.......and just enjoy the man you are married to.......however that happens.......
(((HUGS)))))
Lisa,
There are for every one of us things that are under our control and things that are not; things that we own and those that we do not. We become most frustrated when we confuse the two and attempt to change what is not ours and therefor not ours to change.
Whenever we are trying to climb high into the mountains, we seldom find a way to go upward continuously. What we encounter instead of a steady upward climb is a series of hills and valleys. We go up but a short ways and then we go down again. Then we go back up and then back down and repeat the process over and over. But what we sometimes fail to see is that before long even the valleys are actually higher than where we began. The trend is still upward and still bringing us closer to the summit.
What can prevent us from actually reaching the summit is a desire to remain on one of these lower peaks. While we can see a long way from some of these and while they help us to feel as if we are on the top of the world, if we fix our eyes on the summit we realize that we are still short of reaching our goal. So often we need to leave this high place and go down into a valley so that we can climb back up the other side in order to arrive at our desired destination.
Another thing about mountain climbing is that the higher the peak we are trying to reach, the fewer people there will be that are willing to go on with us as we ascend each lower peak and even fewer as we get higher, closer to our goal.
When we think of achieving the summit in one push from the base it seems as if it is insurmountable. Yet by making each short climb, resting before pushing upward again and taking advantage of the time to become accustomed to the thinner air the whole thing just becomes one short climb after another. The valleys become only brief punctuation on the journey to the summit.
Mark
I know but this is soo hard for me I keep trying to remind myself that at the end of the day plan a and plan B are for me to survive this ordeal! For me to make a better me!
I just see him and I start to ache all over all I want to say is I love you you jerk what is wrong with you!
I guess I am terrified still of letting go and its just hard to see him get in that car....
What if the fog never lifts and he convinces himself he doesnt love me? What if he really doesnt love me anymore?
I did send him a text this morning saying good morning and to have a good day at work....
we used to see eachother every morning and he used to kiss me and say have a good day before I started my shift .... I still see him almost every morning since he delivers to my job....
I see him and I get all happy and excited..... then reality sets in.....
lisa123prpe,
I used to cry every time he left or I talked to him.........nighttime for me was also tough, I used to take gravol in the evening, helped me sleep........Just tried to stay busy doing little jobs that needed attending........
You are doing a great job, keep it up, work on yourself and pamper yourself whenever you get a chance.....
He is probably already thinking about his choice and whether he is making the right one......
Keep him thinking. Little touches and looks and gentle words.......makes him look at you differently.........He really loves you, he has just forgotten for the moment.....
The fog will lift eventually.......I think you go have the best vacation you can have, laugh, play.......and just enjoy the man you are married to.......however that happens.......
(((HUGS)))))
Were you able to save your marriage? they say once they are out of the house its very hard to get them to come back.
You know what? I think you should text him EVERY morning! Saying things like
"Morning babe, have a great day at work, I love you."
"have a great day today, the kids and I will be thinking of you."
"Good morning sunshine!
have a nice day."
"Morning!
Hope your day brings you lots of smiles and love!"
Etc.
Keep it up your doing great
Lisa,
he gets uncomfortable because your plan A is hitting home! Good job keeping your temper. Just remember that you plan A until the vacation and prepare for plan B if he doesn't end the A and meet your requirements to come home.
And don't forget what I texted you earlier! Let him know that the phones (both his and yours) will be off most of the trip! Only to use for emergencies, other then that, this is a FAMILY vacation!
I dont know if he will agree to it? How should I say that to him?
I dont know if he will agree to it? How should I say that to him?
I don't think you can "demand" he do this but you can tell him you are planning on keeping your cell off most of the time so you can enjoy every special moment of this family vacation. Remember in plan A you should expect contact even though you don't want it. That is why it is good to have your plan b ready when you return from vacation. If you get mad or make demands it will spoil the plan A moments.
hmm...good question, or you can steal it from him during the trip and if he can't find it say "its ok babe we'll get you another one when we get home. Just use mine if you need to call your family."
Lisa --
I really admire how well you've done the last few days.
But I am a little concerned about a couple of things.
First of all, its GREAT that you have eliminated the lovebusters (especially the angry outbursts...) but what are you doing about his EMOTIONAL NEEDS? What do you think his top 5 are? And what actions are you taking to meet those top 5?
Second, I don't mean any disrespect to Sapphire, but I'm uncomfortable with all the "off-board" stuff. I think her heart is in the right place, but I'm personally not comfortable with her knowledge of MB plans -- to be giving advice off the board where no one can offer alternative thoughts.
She is the one that came to me, what did you want me to ignore her? When she needed help? I know I am still new but that doesn't mean you can tell me that I can't help her.
and btw every time we talk I always mention to post what she just told me so she can get other feed back not just mine. I am also encouraging her to meet those top 5 needs to her husband.
SO what is it? Is it because I have only posted 229 posts on MB that I don't have any say of my opinion?
I think he needs to feel apreciated, he needs conversation, understanding,that his opinions matter, that he is my equal, acceptance, admiration..... recreational stuff as well.....
I have been talking to him asking his opinion on stuff, asking him to show me how to do stuff praising him for doing it for me, telling the kids how well he does things, asking to help me teach my son things that I dont know how to do!
When he comes to do wash I offer to help.... I always ask him about his day and how he is doing... trying to get him to do things with us as a familly.... did you read my last posts of activites we did together?
Other than that Im not sure what to do!
Lisa --
I really admire how well you've done the last few days.
But I am a little concerned about a couple of things.
First of all, its GREAT that you have eliminated the lovebusters (especially the angry outbursts...) but what are you doing about his EMOTIONAL NEEDS? What do you think his top 5 are? And what actions are you taking to meet those top 5?
Second, I don't mean any disrespect to Sapphire, but I'm uncomfortable with all the "off-board" stuff. I think her heart is in the right place, but I'm personally not comfortable with her knowledge of MB plans -- to be giving advice off the board where no one can offer alternative thoughts.
What are you refering to the stealing of the pohne suggestion or the sending him texts everymorning?
and btw every time we talk I always mention to post what she just told me so she can get other feed back not just mine. I am also encouraging her to meet those top 5 needs to her husband.
SO what is it? Is it because I have only posted 229 posts on MB that I don't have any say of my opinion?
You have helped me quite alot! At the end of the day all you have done is encourage me! I am gratefull.....
Sapphire, just a week ago you were recommending that she Plan B her husband. Now you're on the Plan A band wagon.
I'm just not sure you have enough experience to be making these emphatic recommendations.
I'm glad you are here -- and I am glad you are encouraging Lisa.
*I* am uncomfortable with the idea of you advising Lisa off-board. That is just my opinion, and I tried to put it out there without offending you.
Lisa -- you've identified some of them. Have you read Dr. Harley's list?
He also gives some pretty good recommendations on how to meet those needs.
I don't think she is revering to any of those things, she is revering to the fact that you call me and she thinks I am giving you bad advise, over the phone or something. I don't know, actually good question to ask.
[/quote]
Sapphire, just a week ago you were recommending that she Plan B her husband. Now you're on the Plan A band wagon.
I'm just not sure you have enough experience to be making these emphatic recommendations.
I'm glad you are here -- and I am glad you are encouraging Lisa.
*I* am uncomfortable with the idea of you advising Lisa off-board. That is just my opinion, and I tried to put it out there without offending you.
I do remember saying to go into plan B, but that was because emotionally she couldn't handle it, (she slit her wrists remember?) now that she has meds to calm herself down, and to go into a GOOD plan A. I think she is doing an amazing job this week! Keep it up girl!
Sapphire --
It was my impression that your advice is so passionate and so direct that it would be easy for you to sway Lisa in a direction that might not be best. Lisa is very vulnerable right now...
If I go back to the beginning of this thread you were advocating her seeing a lawyer and FAST, then to having her WH move back in ASAP, and that Plan B was the ONLY CHANCE to save her marriage.
Its all over the place, and that was within 24 hours.
I will re-read those artcles but I have been asking him to take me on the motorcycle and teach me how to ride it.... do you think thats good because it combines recreational with admiration!
Everyone should see a lawyer to protect themselves who wouldn't? My husband did it, he said the only reason why is to protect himself, so you are saying seeing a lawyer is a bad idea when your WS is cheating? and wanting to leave?
I did say move him back in, I thought she kicked him out, then when I found out HE left and she was emotionally distressed I mentioned plan B, especially hearing she had slit her wrists.
And BTW I wasn't the ONLY person saying Plan B was a good idea...thank you very much!
I am glad Lisa has a good hold on Plan A, she has her meds to keep her calm and sleep at night, she is thinking smart, and that is exactly what she should be doing.
I will re-read those artcles but I have been asking him to take me on the motorcycle and teach me how to ride it.... do you think thats good because it combines recreational with admiration!
I think that's great! Spend as much time with him as possible in order to work your plan A, ask him out for lunches, ask him to help you practice on the bike
the more you feed him his EN's the more he will see how much he is missing!
Go to the top of this page and click the basic concepts.
Then go to Emotional Needs. Read all of the articles on how to meet ENs!!
I did forget he was quite clear that one of his TEN was physical attractiveness.....
I did join the gym and have lost 33 lbs sooo now I have to concentrate on the other items
Sapphire -- I only used those examples to point out how contridictory they all were -- in the course of a few hours.
I'm not saying that any one thing was bad, its just inconsistant.
Lisa is very vulnerable, and you'd have her spinning in circles.
Lisa --
Motorcycle Riding is an AWESOME way to meet EN's! You get to snuggle up behind him, and show affection. You get to admire his abilities, and you get to share an activity that you could both have fun with!
He told me that if we ride its just as friends! I will ignore the comment and ask for rides anyways!
Way to go on the weight loss! Do you have a goal?
Lets just break these down one by one.
Affection
Affection is the expression of care. It symbolizes security, protection, comfort and approval -- vital ingredients in any relationship. When one spouse is affectionate toward the other, the following messages are sent:
You are important to me. I will care for you and protect you.
I'm concerned about the problems you face and will be there for you when you need me.
Learn to be more affectionate
A simple hug can say those things. And there are many other ways to show our affection: A greeting card or an "I love you" note; a bouquet of flowers; holding hands; walks after dinner; back rubs; phone calls; and conversations with thoughtful and loving expressions. All of these can effectively communicate affection.
Affection is, for many, the essential cement of a relationship. Without it, many feel totally alienated. With it, they become emotionally bonded. If you feel terrific when your spouse is affectionate, and you feel terrible when there is not enough of it, you have the emotional need for affection.
How did you do with this one? Do you think he had any complaints? This is a great place for text messages. Thoughtful positive thinking-of-you types of messages.
hehehe -- just friends! WHATEVER WH!
Snuggle right up to him and hold on tight!
Way to go on the weight loss! Do you have a goal?
Lets just break these down one by one.
Affection
Affection is the expression of care. It symbolizes security, protection, comfort and approval -- vital ingredients in any relationship. When one spouse is affectionate toward the other, the following messages are sent:
You are important to me. I will care for you and protect you.
I'm concerned about the problems you face and will be there for you when you need me.
Learn to be more affectionate
A simple hug can say those things. And there are many other ways to show our affection: A greeting card or an "I love you" note; a bouquet of flowers; holding hands; walks after dinner; back rubs; phone calls; and conversations with thoughtful and loving expressions. All of these can effectively communicate affection.
Affection is, for many, the essential cement of a relationship. Without it, many feel totally alienated. With it, they become emotionally bonded. If you feel terrific when your spouse is affectionate, and you feel terrible when there is not enough of it, you have the emotional need for affection.
How did you do with this one? Do you think he had any complaints? This is a great place for text messages. Thoughtful positive thinking-of-you types of messages.
I think he did feel like I wasnt always affectionate like he would like to snuggle and spoon and I didnt so he would get mad because he said I would only do it when I wanted sex!
Also the day he told me he wanted to leave he asked me to go riding with him and I said no.... so i think he feels like we have nothing in common
Yes I want to loose another 40 or 50 lbs .... I gained about 80lbs with my kids and never really lost it ... I am a person that caries my qweight evenly so I never looked really bad but it affected my health and i was self concious so even though he never said anything I know it bothered him he did tell me he always thought I would die before him because of all my health issues!
He told me that if we ride its just as friends! I will ignore the comment and ask for rides anyways!
HAHAHA! I love that, do you know why? Because it is just another lie, I told my husband the same thing, how I only think of him as a best friend bla bla bla bla bla! FOG babble!
He is actually just saying that for him, he knows that he still loves you, so when he does say things like that "just think of you as a friend." or "Your like a sister to me now." it is just so he can justify what he is doing, cause he knows deep down that he loves you still.
LOL still funny that all wayward s are exactly the same!
Do you think there is a website called "what to say to your spouse so you can get away with cheating?"
Cause I think we have all been to that site to get our "Scripts"
That is a good clue for you.
So you know you need to change that dynamic. Every time you see him, you need to touch him in some way that is not sexual.
Maybe its giving him at a hug. Squeezing his hand. Rubbing his back. Hip bump.
I had to laugh a little at your description -- usually its the woman who says that.
That is a good clue for you.
So you know you need to change that dynamic. Every time you see him, you need to touch him in some way that is not sexual.
Maybe its giving him at a hug. Squeezing his hand. Rubbing his back. Hip bump.
I had to laugh a little at your description -- usually its the woman who says that.
I know I have always had a higher sex drive than him... we used to joke that I was the man in the relantionship! I think because I always wanted that I made him feel like he couldnt satisfy me!
You are doing a great job. I would just say...don't lay it on too thick. I'm not sure about saying ILY if he is showing you it's making him uncomfortable. Keep it light and easy!
This was also great Plan A advice given to me early on. I got a lot of mileage out of it.
Here's another little tip I came across form three different sources: engage your husband in conversation as early each day as practical. The FIRST person somebody discusses things with is the person they bond the closest to. It doesn't even matter what the topic is: the weather, the news, the children, soem tv show, whatever. Typically males don't talk as much as females so they might talk about something only ONCE so it's very important to try to take advantage of being the first (and perhaps only) person they talk to. So calling him before he goes to work each day is a good idea. Just remember to keep it lighthearted and chatty. One of the reasons so many WS's get involved with coworkers is because of this concept. They start out simply chatting about mundane harmless stuff, then joking around and being 'friends', then oops - one thing has led to another.
OK, one more tip: I've read that only 1 in 5 conversations should be about the relationship, problems, or anything negative. Talk about it if he brings it up and isn't trying to bait you into an argument.
Before we go through the whole list -- pick the 5 you think are his most important:
Affection
Sexual Fulfillment
Conversation
Recreational Companionship
Honesty and Openness
Physical Attractiveness
Financial Support
Domestic Support
Family Commitment
Admiration
Sapphire, just a week ago you were recommending that she Plan B her husband. Now you're on the Plan A band wagon.
I'm just not sure you have enough experience to be making these emphatic recommendations.
I'm glad you are here -- and I am glad you are encouraging Lisa.
*I* am uncomfortable with the idea of you advising Lisa off-board. That is just my opinion, and I tried to put it out there without offending you.
I was also recommending Plan B but jumped on the "Plan A Bandwagon" because that is the path lisa chose and I am gonna support her either way...I saw a lot of me in lisa and I had a very hard time emotionally handling Plan A...Lisa was showing signs that she was heading in the bad direction I ended up in...
LBs and AOs do not make a good plan A, they actually have the opposite effect. Plan A is extremely emotionally draining and I saw time and time again that lisa could not handle it...So I recommended Plan B to protect her.
Lisa chose to try her best to do a quick Plan A...I will help support her the best I can in that decision...It will be best for the R of her marriage if she can handle it..
Lisa you are getting A1 advice on here....and I am glad you are doing better...Keep it up, okay?
Lisa,
Dr Harley refers to 4 of the top ten emotional needs as being unique. He calls these the Intimate Emotional Needs since they are the things that create intimacy within a marriage. These four are:
Conversation (typically a top need for most women)
Recreational Companionship (typically a top need for most men)
Affection (again usually one of the top needs of the wife)
Sexual Fulfillment (another typically top need for most men)
On a recent radio program Dr and Mrs Harley were discussing the things they did when they were dating. Mrs Harley talked about learning to play tennis so that she could play tennis with him. His take on that was what I found interesting. He said that likely that activity worked for their relationship at the time because it met his EN of Recreational Companionship and while engaging in tennis he was willing to meet her EN for Conversation.
In his work Dr Harley suggests that the 4 Intimate Emotional Needs (IENs) be met together as a group whenever we spend our Undivided Attention time together. What this does is to cause both of us to get our top (or some of our most important) ENs met that really can't be met in other ways at other times.
Based on the picnic episode, I would venture that RC is in fact one of his top ENs anyway and so this idea of a vacation might be just the ticket to get things on track. This coupled with your making improvements in your physical appearance (don't just dwell on losing weight but extend that to the way you dress etc) you can make massive Love Bank deposits pretty quickly, making it much more likely that he will decide that he wants to remain with you since it will give him what he needs in order to have a romantic relationship with you and not have to begin again with someone else.
This is really the goal of Plan A, to remove the reasons to end the relationship by getting rid of negative experiences when together (getting rid of Love Busters) while making the marriage relationship much more attractive overall by providing for the meeting of his ENs thus increasing the positive experiences while in your company.
You're doing well, Lisa. Be thinking about an intermediary and what you will need to do if you need to be in Plan B because after an intense vacation of serious Plan A, a sudden Plan B might jog things loose. Not saying suddenly drop Plan B on him after vacation though because a week of serious Plan A might bring him closer to returning. (It might not, but can't hurt)
Spending as much time with him as possible, trying to meet his ENs, will also prevent him from being able to slip away to anyone else to get his ENs met. It will also make him less likely to want to do that in the long run because his ENs will actually be getting met. By eliminating Love Busters at the same time, his time with you will become even more enjoyable ensuring that he will continue to want to spend time with you.
But again...No Expectations, OK?
Mark
He is resisting the time thing he does come by everyday but makes it a quick visit an hr or so and then on weekends he tries to do something for 3 or 4 hrs each day with the kids.... since he isn't here to see me he said...
Also I wanted to continue plan A until the end of June if at all possible!
I wanted to ask him to go work out with me in the AM to see if he wanted to do that but have been afraid to ask....
He keeps saying he wants us to be friends but doesn't want to give me mixed signals.... I also think he is texting less and not really calling because his therapist told him to separate from me more....
Im not sure if he would welcome my calls in the morning... I usually used to call him as soon as i was in my car....
I am trying to keep my expectations in check so im not disappointed if he doesn't want to do things with me....
Also the vacation is going to be a series of day trips... I don't think i can handle overnight right now.... All will be day long trips centered around the kids
I know you want to try to Plan A until the end of June. That is a GREAT goal, but it may not be realistic. When are you guys getting back from that vaca? We will see how you feel from there. Since your WH doesn't currently live at home, you MAY be able to pull it off. Just a few days ago you were trying to get through one day at a time. Just get all of the things ready for Plan B in case you have to pull it out sooner than you planned.
Did you ask your sister to read some of the stuff on here? At least get her to look over the surviving infidelity part. She has been such a HUGE support for you.
Recreational
Physical Attractiveness
Honesty and Openness
admiration
affection
communication
Recreational
Physical Attractiveness
Honesty and Openness
admiration
affection
communication
I'd bet money on SF being in the top three, maybe 1 or 2, Domestic Support being in the top 5 and affection being ahead of H&O...
Mark
So yesterday was a disaster I think!
He came home to see the kids I asked him about his day and if he wanted to eat... He was on the computer looking for rims for his car and I stood there asking questions acting interested...
Then I saw he had his motorcycle keys and I asked him to go for a ride but he said he wasnt going for a ride....
I was like oh ok well can you start teaching me the basics... I told him i signed up for the class....
So we went downstairs and he took his jacket out and helmet ... I thought we were going for a ride so I said let me get my jacket..
He said I told you im not going for a ride but if you want me to tech you come out because Im ready to leave....
I swallowed my hurt and put on my sneakers to go outside!
All went well untill I dropped the bike on myself.....
He was upset I broke the brake leaver and part of the side panel, I said omg im sorry!
He was livid.. he said just another thing to worry about and went to put it back in the garage.....
I was hurting I had landed on my arm and leg. So I just started crying I was overwhelmed by how mad I was at myself.....
I sat on my stoop with my kids hugging me....
He came up to me and asked me if I was ok and to not cry because he knew the risk of letting me ride his bike!
I said I am sorry I know how much you love that bike! He said its al right I can fix it..... I could tell he was very upset so I got up and hugged him....
I think that was a big mistake because he wouldnt even hug me back he just put his arms back ... I asked him to hug me and I sensed his reluctance and that he was uncomfortable... so I took a step back
I said its ok and walked off a little bit.....
He gave me the angriest look.... I said why are you angry and he said nothing forget it.... I went over to him and said dont be mad I felt you were uncomfortable so I stepped back ... He goes well then why did you ask me to hugg you.....
I said because I wanted you to... I told him this is difficult... He goes I know its difficult... He said Ill talk to you later.... I said yes we can talk later.....
He took off and i had a good cry......
He then sent me a text message saying dont worry he knew that could happen just take medicine for the arm... I told him i would take care of it and he said dont worry about it he will just add it to his list of problems.....
I have a friend who is a motorcycle mechanic.... He came and took the bike he said there isnt anything really wrong with it just the brake leavers are designed to break off like that....
He said most of it is just cosmetic..... So I hope he is happy when I bring his bike back today fixed ....
I texted him this morning saying good morning and to have a good day.
So I have to regroup!
Aww..Lisa I am so sorry! I know that must have been really hard for you! You actually did great though
just remember that you have the upper hand in this plan, you are doing great, I know it will be hard for the rest of them month doing your plan A, and know that this wont be for ever.
The reason why he wouldn't hug back is because he is afraid to love you more, hugging is HUGE in a relationship, it means that I care for you and he can't handle that right now, because of all these emotions he is going through. Don't let it bother you, I remember I didn't want any affection from Wheels because I knew it would make me fall in love with him, and telling myself "I only love him as a brother" felt easier then falling in love, because what I was doing WAS wrong, and for avoiding anything that will remind me that I actually DO LOVE my husband, hugging, kissing, holding hands, etc would make me feel those feelings again and I was SCARED!
Your doing great lisa! Keep it up, soon this will all be over, just know that you have a plan A and a plan B
{{{{Lisa}}}}}...You did fine...Im sorry, sometimes we try so hard we trip over our own feet....But you did perfectly fine, hopefully someday down the road you two can have a little chuckle about it....You handled it good and just what sapphire said....Plan A is not forever, so just remember that...One day at a time.
Recreational
Physical Attractiveness
Honesty and Openness
admiration
affection
communication
I'd bet money on SF being in the top three, maybe 1 or 2, Domestic Support being in the top 5 and affection being ahead of H&O...
Mark
You think he is SF? Domestic support? Affection you are probably right about
SF and domestic support is ALWAYS in the men's top 5
Lisa --
I'm not sure why you think it was a disaster...??
I also think you did great!
You cannot measure your Plan A efforts by HIS REACTIONS. Even a negative reaction by him does NOT mean that your Plan A was ineffective! Maybe you are causing conflict in him, which is why he is getting snarly with you.
But in reality -- he was being reassuring. And he took the time to teach you. Those actions of his are GREAT!
Remember Plan A is about YOU. You are doing these things to SHOW him that you can and will meet his emotional needs. You are showing him the best side of YOU. It does not matter how he reacts to it!
We are going to analyze his Top 5 needs. Every day you are going to do something to meet those needs.
Did I admire him today? check.
Did I look good today? check.
etc.
It does not matter how HE REACTS to it. His reactions are not reliable, because he is in a foggy wayward state of mind.
Thanks I am just trying really hard to stay within the plan! I am happy you think it was ok!
So domestic support and SF are in his top 5 ....... I will read about those things!
I am soo proud of you we ALL are proud of you! You came a LONG way to reach this far
and it was only a WEEK!
YOU, my lady is ON TRACK!
Lisa --
Everyones top 5 are different. But TYPICALLY for men sex and domestic are usually in the top.
Thats why we want you to review what all of the EN's are -- and put them in the context of your marriage.
Unfortunately you're going to have to make some guesses on what his are. You can't ask him right now, because his responses will be screwed up by his wayward thinking. He doesn't want you to succeed in meeting his needs, because he thinks OW meets them and he has one foot out of the marriage.
So read and learn! Then we will help you APPLY!
OK I will study them tonight! And try to make my guesses based on what I have been told by him and what I beleve they are...
I know PA is the top because of what he told me but as for SF I dont know because he usually didnt want to have sex
You cannot measure your Plan A efforts by HIS REACTIONS. Even a negative reaction by him does NOT mean that your Plan A was ineffective! Maybe you are causing conflict in him, which is why he is getting snarly with you.
What Lexxy said. I agree that he's definitely conflicted, and there's some guilt in the mix. The fact that he texted you about your arm shows that. He didn't need to tell you to put medicine on it, but he made the effort to do that.
Of course, right now he's foggy so the text was probably to relieve some of his guilt. And that's good! He's conflicted.
Lisa --
I'm not sure why you think it was a disaster...??
I also think you did great!
You cannot measure your Plan A efforts by HIS REACTIONS. Even a negative reaction by him does NOT mean that your Plan A was ineffective! Maybe you are causing conflict in him, which is why he is getting snarly with you.
But in reality -- he was being reassuring. And he took the time to teach you. Those actions of his are GREAT!
Remember Plan A is about YOU. You are doing these things to SHOW him that you can and will meet his emotional needs. You are showing him the best side of YOU. It does not matter how he reacts to it!
We are going to analyze his Top 5 needs. Every day you are going to do something to meet those needs.
Did I admire him today? check.
Did I look good today? check.
etc.
It does not matter how HE REACTS to it. His reactions are not reliable, because he is in a foggy wayward state of mind.
MEMORIZE this post, Lisa. Lexxy is exactly right that measuring your plan A by his reactions will HURT you and mean you can't last as long. Sweetie every time he gets angry over your plan A stuff it means you are reaching through his fog. Facing how wrong he is makes him angry. That is GOOD.
Personally I think you did great yesterday. You showed your vulnerability without LB's, AO's and DJ's. Bravo!!!
FWIW, Lisa I too think you did EXCELLENT. And as far as his reactions to your Plan A, listen to these fine folks. This was a hard thing for me to wrap around my head too. When you think of it as a person who is extremely conflicted and doesn't WANT to feel anything for you, it makes a bit more sense. Hang tough. You are doing well. It really doesn't matter what he thinks now anyways. Even DrH says that Plan A only works 15% of the time on it's own. It's the time during Plan B that the effectiveness of Plan A begins to make it's impact.
Lisa,
I am on board with the "You did great" part as well.
One thing to keep in mind about ENs is that the thing that is most lacking or has been most lacking for a while is what matters most to us. For a B this often translates into H&O since we find out that much of our recent history we have been lied to.
The way this works is like this:
I you are out in a blizzard without enough warm clothes to keep yourself warm, you begin to get cold and before long all you can think of is getting your need for warmth met. If someone offers to let you come inside and warm up by a nice fire, before long you aren't so cold but when they offer you a drink you realize that you are actually thirsty as well. Once your thirst is satisfied then you begin to feel that your primary need is to eat something since you are also quite hungry, having out off the need for food in order to find a way to get warm, since that was your most pressing need.
As a guess, DS falls into this classification for men whose wives have an affair more than for men who are having an affair. Often a wayward wife will stop doing much of anything for her husband and sometimes even her children. The house gets cluttered, dinner is never done when he gets home and laundry begins to pile up, especially his laundry since she has pretty much checked out of being married to him. A man in this case, especially one attempting to step up for the kids and learn to be more self sustaining will often begin to tackle some of those duties himself. If he really hates doing those things and it is one of his top 5 or 6 needs, he begins to crave the thing he is most lacking from her. Men don't typically fall in love with someone because she keeps a tidy house and cooks a mean meatloaf.
For most men, I think SF, Physical Attractiveness, Admiration, Recreational Companionship and Domestic Support will end up being pretty important under a "normal" set of conditions. I also think that for most men, the thing that is most lacking at any given moment is the most important thing at that moment.
But also keep in mind that the four Intimate Emotional Needs, SF, Recreational Companionship, Affection and Conversation are the very things that create intimacy in a relationship. So assuming that SF and RC are in his top five, these at least should be chosen to target if for no other reasons than they are guaranteed ways to make Love Bank deposits.
Most often, it is one of the other ENs that gets met by an affair partner, at least to begin with. Small but consistent LB$ deposits are made until the romantic threshold is approached and then a reciprocal understanding is reached to meet each others other ENs as well.
Now SF can be met in ways other than by having wild sex, but if OW was or is meeting this EN, even just by flirting and innuendo, then whatever his next most important need that is lacking is what he will be looking to you to meet most of all. If he really is in a hard no contact with her then this too should be open to meeting for him.
On the Physical Attractiveness scale, a man will sometimes be highly attracted to a woman that is less attractive than his wife. (See Tiger Woods and Jesse James stories for evidence) But PA is much more than weight. It can be heavily addressed by a woman making the most of her appearance even though she might have put on a few pounds since the wedding. But also look at what flirting and flirtatious actions mean in regard to SF. Sexiness is as much a state of mind and an attitude as it is purely looks or size or shape. Knowing what buttons to push to get a reaction can mean more than being a super model to most men.
Just before the start of her affair, my wife got in to the best shape of her life. She looked better than at any time in her life as far as physical appearance and fitness. I would sometimes lag behind her when we went out just to watch men walking into light poles and walls trying to get a better and longer look at her.
In the year of the affair and in each of the four years since, she has put on weight and no longer wears the really sexy clothes, even for me, but every once in a while, she can look so good to me that I'll scrap long made plans just to be with her. Her attitude has more to do with this than her actual look, but it cannot be discounted in the big picture of things.
I can also tell you without any doubt that when we've just had a great day together of recreational activities that I enjoyed a lot, marked by good conversation and little signs of affection and flirting along the way, when I hold her in my arms, I see a smiling not quite 18 year old that I fell in love with 37 years ago.
Now if she mopes around the house, complaining about how much work the place needs and how I work too many hours or how she doesn't feel like cleaning the kitchen again today and flops into her chair in sweatpants and ratty old tee shirt, I pretty much figure out something else to do for the day if I can come up with something.
There are a LOT of ways of being attractive to him, more than any OW could have discovered in a short period of time. You have an advantage she never had. He married you because he was attracted to you and fell in love with you once. Become that girl again and push every button you know.
Keep affection light, sudden, without warning and just enough to bring his focus onto you. Touch his arm as you talk or as you pass him while he is playing with the kids. Let him see you looking at him and then SMILE as big as you can manage. Brush against him only briefly and be sure he gets a whiff of your perfume (make it his favorite scent) often, especially just before he parts from you. Develop a strategy that will place you in his mind and keep thoughts of you present after you part. Build a plan around trying to win his mind and his heart will follow.
Mark
Lisa --
I'm not sure why you think it was a disaster...??
I also think you did great!
You cannot measure your Plan A efforts by HIS REACTIONS. Even a negative reaction by him does NOT mean that your Plan A was ineffective! Maybe you are causing conflict in him, which is why he is getting snarly with you.
But in reality -- he was being reassuring. And he took the time to teach you. Those actions of his are GREAT!
Remember Plan A is about YOU. You are doing these things to SHOW him that you can and will meet his emotional needs. You are showing him the best side of YOU. It does not matter how he reacts to it!
We are going to analyze his Top 5 needs. Every day you are going to do something to meet those needs.
Did I admire him today? check.
Did I look good today? check.
etc.
It does not matter how HE REACTS to it. His reactions are not reliable, because he is in a foggy wayward state of mind.
MEMORIZE this post, Lisa. Lexxy is exactly right that measuring your plan A by his reactions will HURT you and mean you can't last as long. Sweetie every time he gets angry over your plan A stuff it means you are reaching through his fog. Facing how wrong he is makes him angry. That is GOOD.
Personally I think you did great yesterday. You showed your vulnerability without LB's, AO's and DJ's. Bravo!!!
Furthermore, his reactions won't catch up to your actions for awhile. Re-read the Love Bank model: you have to catch up to the romantic love threshold in your account in his Love Bank before changes start to get really big and notable.
I found this Rocks in a River post that somebody shared with me really helpful in understanding:
Originally posted by ExtremelyLost, he was quoting Steve Harley:
Rocks in a River: You find yourself on the bank of a wide river. It is too wide to jump across, and yet you still need to cross it. What do you do? You start picking up rocks and throwing them into the river. (These rocks are each small affectionate thing you do for your W). For the first 499 rocks, you see the rock hit the water, and then it disappears. These rocks are sinking and landing on the bottom of the river. Eventually you get to rock #500 and it hits the water and part of it is sticking up above the surface. You now realize you are getting somewhere. You can finally see progress. For the first 499 rocks, you knew they were stacking up, but you had no proof other than common sense telling you that they were building up. We have to approach our relationships now as if every piece of affection is one of those rocks. We will not see any progress until a number of rocks have been thrown. However, just because we are not seeing these first 499 rocks does not mean they are not having an impact. Believe that they are, because they are.
Here's where it was shared with me:
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2367794#Post2367794
good job,
I don't think it was a disaster it was life, stuff happens.....
Don't feel bad about asking for hugs, if you need them to feel better, I did this, I told my husband that it was his job to get me through this emotional time that he had caused for me.....
He didn't really hug me back at first and slowly he changed, I think he also felt the comfort from the hug and it was okay to help each other out with that little calming jesture....
Over time the connection started to happen, I used to touch his hand, brush against his arm, touch him on the shoulder when I walked by......very minimal but very effective. It took a few months while he was supposedly looking for a house to move on with his life with his new love....
Slowly he started to see things differently.....started to see what he was giving up.
He could see that with a little work, we could get back to where we used to be.
I think he knew what he had with me was way more than what he thought he was going to have with his OW....
Make your husband think about you and what you two could have, let him remember the little touches, the smiles, you laughing.....let him compare......Tell him you want him to be happy because you love him even if that means without you in his life.
I also told my husband once he left me for her that I no longer wanted any kind of relationship with him I told him I had enough friends.
He knew that I would be out of his life for good and when he actually thought of that being a reality he didn't like it....
I think he was mad because parts of his life are probably falling apart, maybe the OW, just be the soft place for him to be and fall.....
Show him you would always stand behind him because you believe in him and your marriage....
Thanks that is great advice!
I came home from the gym to find him here waiting... I came in happy and laughing from my workout! I was like oh crap I look a mess but started chatting with my daughter about how hard my work out was and such.... He seemed in a good mood...
So I asked him about his day and he said it was fine.... so I launched into a happy description of all the things I am in charge if at my job and how busy my day went...
We then started discussing the vacation..... I had a small hiccup.... He suggested we do only the major parts of the trip together.... that we should do individual local things .... i looked at him and was like oh ok If you dont want me to go I can find something to do... He sighed ans said look I meant we do 5 days together and u have 1 day and i the other .....
I then asked him to fix the icemaker again.... We did it together and I said i appreciate this you know and he was like its nothing....
I was oh ok I was upbeat and said fine I can take the kids to the pool or something on sunday!
We then discussed where we wanted to go.... very causal.... I mentioned that I took the bike to get fixed as we had texted about it during the day... and that the mechanic was the cousin of his BF....
He then talked to me about it on his way out the door.... he then received a text from his BF confirming what I had told him.... I said ok bye have a good night.... He then backed up to talk to me about our satellite and how he fixed it.... I said thanks.... and bye I was happy and upbeat the whole time!
BTW he was in my facebook again!
Bravo lisa!!!! You're a Plan A diva!!!!
Remember it doesn't matter what he says or does, just follow the plan. Really good job.
Who are you and what did you do with Lisa?
![[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]](http://bestsmileys.com/cartoon/5.gif)
It's working, Lisa, be patient and always look good, smell good and be happy....he will notice, he will start to be confused about who he wants and he will eventually see you as his choice.....
The mistake my husband's OW made was to UNDERESTIMATE ME and the power I have in this situation......do they think we are just going to stand by and watch them take our lives.....
Take back your power, outwit, outsmart ........
keep us posted
LOL at Mark.....your doin great lisa!!!!!!
The mistake my husband's OW made was to UNDERESTIMATE ME and the power I have in this situation......do they think we are just going to stand by and watch them take our lives.....
Take back your power, outwit, outsmart ........
keep us posted
This is starting to sound like survivor
Outwit, Outlast, Outplay.
Who would've thunk we could relate reality TV in our lives. Definitely keep fighting Lisa, this sounds like an amazing opportunity for you.
I know I feel great!
I know he might not come back but you know I know what I am worth and what I will not accept! I deserve to be treated with respect, love, dignity....
I did forget to mention that he told me he wasnt going to get the kids on friday because he might be going to Alantic city but that he thought it would be ok because he is going on vacation shortly!
I told him thats fine you go and enjoy yourself you need some time for yourself to destress.... I then asked casually who he was going with and he told me a guy from work but I dont know if I will go.... I looked at him smiling and was like go ahead take some time to do something for yourself!
So he sends me a text message asking me why I only slept 3 hrs the other night?..... I was smiling because i know he been in my facebook.....
I told him because the pills havent been working .... He goes oh i thought they were.... I said not really but I am doing good!
I am very amused right now..... I know he is like what the heck!
I guess he thought I was this calm and happy because of the meds!
LOL It is part of it but also I decided not to dwell to much on the right now! I have a long term goal ahead of me!
Thats exactly what it is Outwit, Outlast and outplay the OW you cant just laydown and wait for your marriage to die....
Atta Girl Lisa!!!
I'm so PROUD of you! You have turned into a Plan A GODDESS!
Ok -- did you do your homework last night?
Did you review the emotional needs? Do we have a refined list of his Top 5?
We know physical attractiveness is one for sure.
And your weight loss and training is helping that for sure.
You've done a good job of looking cute each time he comes around.
This one will be fun to work on, because it will make YOU feel good at the same time! Do you have the funds for some new wardrobe items? Especially lingerie. Buy some bra/panties in bright colors - and let him get a glimpse of them, either by leaving them out, or the strap showing, or mentioning them.
Get your mani-pedi's on a regular basis.
How does he prefer your hair?
I am SOOO glad that you know you know what your are worth! Knowing this will give you a HUGE advantage to fix this marriage, and if you can't then you will come out a WAY better person then you are right now, and the next person you find will be 10 times better then your WH.
Out of this experience you will change to a powerful young lady, someone strong, focused, and determined. If your husband comes around and decides to recovery then he will change as well, and your marriage will be stronger! If he doesn't then he will not LEARN ANYTHING, and he will be the exact same person, miserable, unhappy, depressed, and most likely have about 2 more D in his life time!
WAY TO GO LISA!!!
I am almost poisitve:
Recreational support
PA
SF
Domestic
affection & admiration
I get mani.pedis on a 2 week basis I always have , he does like my hair longer but I look younger with shorter hair
I do not have funds right now for new items but i have things i was too heavy for that I use now
OMG my WH is sooooo suspicious he keeps asking me questions about the guy fixing his bike! Not only can he go there himself but the guys is his friends cousin.....
He askes me to handle the repair but then questions me about when and how much interaction i have with this guy!!!
I just answered his questions in a matter of fact way but I wanted to laugh really!
Just like a WS to think just because they did it you would do it as well!
I know how vulnerable I am right now so I know better than to have anything but casual and minimal contact with anyone of the opposite sex right now......
Again I am highly amused!
hmm...this is very amusing! First of all when I was in my EA#2 I wanted soo badly Wheels find someone else, I wanted him to give up and just end up having an A as well, I thought maybe it would be easier! The thought of Wheels with another woman did not phase me! I actually thought it plenty of times, so it would be easier to help me with all this GUILT I had!
So for him being jealous is very good!
1. Because he still LOVES YOU!
2. He's probably thinking this (Marriage) might work!
GREAT JOB LISA!
Raise that bar high Lisa! You are WORTH it.
Start thinking about what your requirements would be if he wanted to return to work on the marriage. What would you require? Some ideas are: transparency, counseling with MB, no-contact with OW for life, no female friends/texting/emailing etc.
I am so glad you are able to find humor in his reactions right now! That is the BEST way to look at him! Just laugh! You have the power.
Wow Lisa, I just read your thread for the first time today. You are doing great! Your turn-around was awesome.
A couple of thoughts-- as for physical contact with him. All wayturds resist it. But think of it as a game. Find excuses to brush up against him while walking through a room, reach up and cup his cheek for a SECOND, wink, and then walk away, etc. It'll be fun to come up with all the creative ways you can get that physical touch within his boundaries. Don't necessarily go for hugs or kisses because THAT can be a LB to him, even though that's not how you mean it.
As for communicating with him each morning (which is a great idea) texting is great for that. One of my favorite texts to use in this situation is to say, "Just heard on the news that the aliens have landed and are abducting all the beautiful sexy people. I'm gonna miss ya!" He won't know if you're referring to him or to yourself. The only reason NOT to text him is if he sees it as a LB.
One final thought for now, keep MB a secret from anyone who might let on to your WH about what you're doing. You don't want to be outed just yet.
Carry on. You're doing GREAT!
haha, sounds like you're finally getting somewhere, be it for good or bad, he's definitely taking notice of the stand you're taking here. I can't wait to here what happens with the weekend, especially with this atlantic city excursion with the co-worker you've never heard of....odd, but whatever is going to happen will happen.
Lisa,
Don't let anything, any situation, anything you learn throw you off your plan...
This is a plan of longevity, Plan A you *$$ off, and don't worry about what he does, he needs to notice what you are doing.......
Well sorry for not updating in a couple of days!
First off I had a girls night on wendsay so I had my kids sleeop over my friends house! I sent him a text saying that we were not at the house and that we would see him the next day.
Well he spent the night texting my daughter to see what was going on!
Yesterday I had my psychiatry appt and was very busy most of the day! He was sending me texts questioning me where I was what I did the night before....
I was having a tough day and he just kept sending angry texts because I wouldnt answer him! I wasnt doing it because I didnt want to I was just overwhelmed and didnt want to deal with his demands right then and there! I sent him a text saying I couldnt text him right now
I saw him eating lunch in his truck so I stopped and he was soooo angry with me.
I asked him why he was so angry and he was like oh you dont answer my texts and you didnt tell me what you were doing today and you left the kids alone all day...
I said I had my appt today it lasted several hours, If I had been at work our daughter would have babysat the kids.... I also told him I have had a very calm and positive week and do not wish to get into this right now... You asked me for what you needed and I have been trying to do just that,,,,
I changed the subject to getting parts for his motorcylce...
He then said well I guess I dont have to know everything!
Later on that night he came over I was in my room cleaning it and dancing to the music! I didnt even know he was there I came upon him in the computer room... I was cheerful and asked him what he was looking at and offered him food.....
I kept going in and out of the room keeping up happy chatter... .
I offered to serve him dinner but he said he would do it himself... He then said he was leaving to which I told him bye in a cheerful voice....
I am drained mentaly and physically.... I am glad he in AC right now I need a break from him....
I do wonder who he really is going with but at this point I am not going to dwell on it....
I do wonder who he really is going with but at this point I am not going to dwell on it....
YES! Don't dwell on it, it will only make you hurt, otherwise I am so glad that things are still good for you in plan A you are still doing a great job even though it is physically and emotionally hard.
Just remember that you have all of us to help you
You have a great, positive day!
Lisa,
It is NOT a lovebuster to say to him "honey, you don't want me questioning your every move - so i assume the same rules apply to me."
He is crazy jealous Lisa. He realizes that he has left you open to advances from other men and he is running that scenario through his mind, and finding he doesn't like it much.
I would suggest making a changes around the house. Painting your bedroom to a color that YOU like. He will not like that he doesn't have a say....
So what are your Plan A plans today? Remember to do things that will hit his top 5...
hi Lisa,
glad you had a girl night out.......just be nice and happy when you are around him, it sounds like he doesn't like it much when you are out of touch with him.....good sign........re-thinking losing you for good and never having contact with him means he is weighing things out in his mind. .........will it be worth having the OW if it means having to give you up...........I know my husband said this was a huge question for him......I actually told him if he went to her that I was not interested in even having him as a friend, had enough of them........There would be absolutely no contact at all and I would see him at our son's wedding......I meant it still do..........Told him I loved him but he was free to go if that was his choice.....
Stayed in a good Plan A while he weighed things out......
Try not to stress out when he is not there, you can't control that part but you can when you do have contact with him......
all you can do is try your best if it works great, if it doesn't at least you will know you gave it your all and you just didn't let someone else walk away with your life
I am going to get my toes, nails and eyebrows done, im going to the gym! i also want to buy a new pair of jeans cause all the ones I have I had to throw away because they are sooo loose on me!
I do not expect to see him at all today so I was going to go get a drink or two with my girlfriend and then just relax at home!
You can take this time away from him to email him with a "remember the time...." type of message. I would write messages to my WH about a dream I had(which I only had a small one but embellished it HUGE). I included all of the things he liked in SF in ONE dream. That is the advantage we BSs have, we KNOW our WSs. We know all of their wants and desires. I also made sure to write about the births of our children. These are things WE share. NO ONE else can share in these memories, they were special to US.
He doesnt have access to emails but I just sent him a text asking him if he remembered the time we went to AC with his mom I was like 7 months pregnant and could even gamble cause I was only 20 not 21....
I had to sit and wait with all the other kids in the hallway outside the cadino floor! It was hilarious me with my huge belly sitting with a bunch of kids whos parents were gambling!
We had so much fun in AC!
I know he read it but never answered back! Sooooo im gonna keep it moving
NO EXPECTATIONS. It is the little things that add up in Plan A and are thought about in Plan B. Even then, you wouldn't know about it until after you are recovered. You don't do things to see his reactions. You do things because you are changing who you are into who you WILL be and who you WANT to be. That is what Plan A is ALL about.
You are right I was getting anxious!
I just gotta do things for my own recovery right now!
He was at my house when I got there from the gym last night!
He starts talking to me about how much weight I have lost and what my goal is what size i want to be!
Then he tells me his cousins were causing trouble last night! I told him well that is the lifestyle they have down by your dads house! Im glad I am not in the bad part of town!
He goes to me well yeah I dont want that but thats where I have to be right now
I looked at him and got up I told him i didnot feel like discussing this rightnow
He followed me into the kitchen and we started talking about my job and how i was getting tickets for the preopening event at my job! He was like oh if you you want to give me a ticket I wouldnt mind going...
I looked at him and was joking said well we will see....
So he goes to my daughter who just walked in "oh mommy doesnt want to take me she is taking her new boyfriend" He said that in a flirty voice with a smile
My daughter was like mom doesnt have a boyfriend dad!
He smiled and was like oh no?
I laughed because that was so ridiculus! I went outside and sat on my steps amused...
He sat there and asked me why i was laughing and I told him that I had forgotten how funny you were and how you could make me laugh!
We went to go see the mechanic for his bike and he tells me
"Thanks for being quiet all week"
I looked at him and was like what does that mean that isnt very nice
He goes you know what I mean you know not fighting all week.... dont get upset now!
I said I am not mad it just didnt sound very nice the was you said it and I already told you I wasnt doing the fighting anymore.
He said it was nice not to fight so he was just trying to thank me for it!
you are doing a great job ....and he is responding...keep it up..
you are doing a great job ....and he is responding...keep it up..
BUTTTTTTT, remember NO EXPECTATIONS. You see, that's when you will feel down about what you are doing and it may even drain your LB$.
Also, it is NORMAL for a WS to believe that the BS is "seeing" someone too. Crazy wayturd thinking. The pocket response I was given to tell my WH was, "I believe in a marriage with only 2 people, would you like a cookie?" This tells your WH that you ARE NOT "dating" because that's NOT what married people do.
You're doing GREAT. How long do you think you are going to pull off a GREAT Plan A for? Remember, you may need to pull out the Plan B card.
hahaha, this is awesome. So glad to hear you're turning the tables on him Lisa. Definitely DON'T create expectations for ANY of this, as that sets you up for disappointment all over the place.
By the way I'm kind of jealous that you have steps to sit on out front. where I'm living now I dont really have front steps so to speak. Its always enjoyable to get some fresh air out there...
Lisa, you haven't posted in a few days, how are you? I hope it's just because you are busy on your adventure. This is the week you were going on a family vaca right? I hope that is why you are so quiet right now. Prayers going out to you.
Yeah, lisa, we just want to know that you are okay...even if you dont feel like making a post...just let us now your okay....just post "im okay" if thats all you feel like posting right now...we are worried.
Earth to Lisa...
Earth to Lisa...
Speak to us, Lisa...
Hello...
Come in...
Over...
Lisa,
Tell us what's going on...
Don't make me track you down.
Mark
Lisa? We are worried but also hoping you are enjoying some real family time. Please check in.
Sorry havent posted for a while!
Had a great 3 days of vacation and 3 days not so great! We had a couple discussions and when I told him i felt like they were arguments he told me well how are we to move forward if we dont discuss thing!
He tried to make me feel like it was my fault he cheated because of my weight and that was kind of painfull.... but i told him ididnt want to discuss it... He told me he feel like I should have lost weight a long time ago!
I told him well im doing it for me now because I am focusing on bettering myself!
Saturday started ok he came home to pick me up so that I could go get tires with him for his car...
I of course answered the door in some skimpy underwear and he was staring which made me feel good! After that I asked him for a ride on the motorcycle which he took me!
After I spent the day at the pool with my kids... i came home to find him sleeping on the sofa! I made dinner and he stayed for dinner but then left to go to a family a babyshower which he forgot to tell me about....
That really ticked me off and I told him that I felt embarrased because now I had to explain to his cfamily why I never showed up! He of couse yelled at me and I told him I felt bad and didnt want to discuss it anymore
Fathers day was not good at all I took him out to lunch and was irritated that the entiretime he was on the phone!
I told him look were having lunch who is calling that is that important... He blew up at me and well the kids were upset and I had to walk away from the table.
Least to say we went home after that.... I told him I had a picnic to go to to keep the kids and he just kept texting me about issues he is having with his car... and then I wasnt home when he went to get his car and he sent me a sarcastic text about me not being home....
He keeps trying to get me to engage and for a day or 2 there he pulled me back in!
I then did something against my better judgement and slept with him the morning of fathers day!
It was ackward and not good.... It really put me into a tailspin for a the day!
I went to my therapist yesterday and came home and he was there I said hi and went into my room just because I needed the time to relax. I was upset from my appointment... He then asked me what was wrong through the door... I told him i had just come from my therapist to give me a couple of minutes...
He then goes well are you going to the gym cause you didnt go yesterday? I told him i was planning on it but that I needed a hug and he refused so i said ok... I got dressed and left...
He then sent me a text apologizing and asking If i told my therapist that we slept together.... I didnt answer since i was in the gym and he then sent me a text an hr later angry that i havent answered back....
He has texted me only 3 times today.... but I feel like we took 3 steps back this week!
He is soo not going to come back..... I feel like I may not be able to do this indefinitely.....
Not sure how I feel about him right now! Very confused!
Thank you for posting lisa...we were worried....Your are doin okay...just remember, dont think too much about his end right now, just take care of your end, The Plan Aing...Hes the one having the AOs now, it seems, not you...Thats okay, you cannot control him...remember?
I remember sex in plan a, it can be awkward....listen...You may feel like you took three steps back, but I dont feel as if you did, its just how you feel...dont get down on yourself, you are starting to downslide, you are doing fine...keep upbeat no matter what his response is, okay? You can only control yourself.....
Oh and please dont forget....Him telling you about the weight thing and that the affair was your fault. You responded well..Thats his fogginess. It was NOT your fault...You just keep working on yourself, exercising and Plan Aing....YOu are doing fine.
Your are doing great! Just remember that plan A is not forever!
and that plan B is always right there to use when you are ready! Just don't stress yourself out if you make a couple mistakes, you are doing perfect!
i think your last post indicates more of a transitional period for the two of you....
just keep plugging away at your Plan A and don't let him suck you into arguing or saying something you will regrets....
Don't worry about what his anger is all about, who knows what is actually happening at the other end with him and his feelings.
keep going to your therapist, you have to take care of you first and he just might be noticing that you can get along without him, maybe he doesn't like it.....
What ever his problem is dont' worry about it, tell him if he wants to talk about any of it you would be willing, tell him you enjoy your intimate time with him(even though it didn't go well) just being with him again was enjoyable for you.....
don't put any pressue on him, make him come to you.....
it's all very tough I know, but I think you are doing an amazing job....it's a long term plan, keep that in mind.......
do something nice for yourself today, you deserve it...
Im just frustrated and kind of down..... I am questioning if this is what I should even want?
Everyone keeps telling me im dumb!
You are not dumb, lisa.....Do not listen to everyone else, this is your life...here is the question you should be asking yourself....Do you want to save your M? Unless the answer is a resounding NO, then you are doing the right thing.....
How is your Plan A going? Whats going on?
Lisa, it SOUNDS like you are getting to the end of Plan A...when your LB$ starts to drain. You want to preserve the love you have left for your WH. How long have you been doing Plan A? It is only supposed to last 3-4 weeks according to Dr H...
Lisa, stop listening to people outside of your M supporters. Most everyone who has not walked this road will tell you to dump him. It sounds to me like you are almost ready for plan B. Tell us how your plan A has been going.
Lisa, stop listening to people outside of your M supporters. Most everyone who has not walked this road will tell you to dump him. It sounds to me like you are almost ready for plan B. Tell us how your plan A has been going.
I agree, she has been doing great in plan A, she can pretty much start plan B when ever she feels it is right...and right now that time is anytime!
Give us an update on your current situation please
Im just frustrated and kind of down..... I am questioning if this is what I should even want?
Everyone keeps telling me im dumb!
Nobody here has said that. It's the folks here who know what you are going through and know what you are doing to save your marriage and why.
NOBODY who has not saved their marriage from the brink of destruction that resulted from an affair has any idea at all of what they would do in such a situation. Even those who have been cheated on and just let go because their own resolve and love for the wayward spouse was already dead do not understand.
Begin to research Plan B letters so that you can get one written. You might want to post it here for feedback (replace names with something for posting it.)
Consider who you would select as an intermediary so that once you sever contact with WH you don't have to listen to his crap any more. This person needs to be someone who can filter out the normal whining that comes from a WH who is trying to manipulate his BW in order to continue cake eating.
Before you deliver the Plan B letter, I would state clearly and without any Love Busters that he is now at a crossroads and must choose to either commit to coming home and working on the marriage or leave you alone and stop hurting you. His decision will determine if the Plan B letter is to be delivered. If that is the case, hand it to him and walk away.
No negotiations, no listening to him complain about how you are not being fair or any of that crap can be allowed. Put the ball in his court and see if he returns it or lets it pass.
Mark
Lisa, stop listening to people outside of your M supporters. Most everyone who has not walked this road will tell you to dump him. It sounds to me like you are almost ready for plan B.
ITA
Steve Harley addressed that with me. All your family sees is your pain. THey know that divorce and separation ends the pain your going through the quickest. Its the "easy out" for them. So they will constantly push you towards D.
Surrounding yourself with people that will support you staying in the M is the safest route.
I am not sure im ready for plan B yet..... we have made some progress he has been taking a step forward here or there and gone back a couple of steps....
He came over the other day and almost kissed me... he was hugging me he had put his head on my me and we were just sitting there breathing eachother in them he looked at me and moved in to kiss me and i stood still hoping he would but he pushed back and then didnt want to be close anymore.. i hugged him again and kissed him anyways....
he has displayed some jealousy lately which amuses me he has been questioning my whereabouts comming over late at night to talk to me.... i asked him to come home and he said he wasnt ready because he still in the same place....
He did say he sees some changes in me and that he sees me moving on... that he will loose everything....
I told him i am changing my self because there are thing i do not like but thats doesnt mean I dont love you or that I am looking for another person.... I told him you havent lost me yet and the only way you will is if you give me up!
We have had some issues and a fight on saturday which was bad because i did ask him to give me the house key.... he blew up and it was not a pretty sight... then he came over around 2 am after he went out and we talked he said he knew we didnt mean all the things we said and i asked him to stay but he said no... he did then told me how pretty i lokked which made me feel good!
but mostly its been good... He has been upset lately but i think its because he sees the changes in me and is conflicted and feels guilty....
But who knows at this point!
the thing that bothers me is that sometime i try to flirt or make jokes with him and he seems to get mad! But if he does the same to me I am supposed to be ok and go along with it!
He told me he has conflicting emotions!
I was just going to post on your thread to see if you had an update
lol
It sounds like he is doing better, but he is still on the fence on what he wants, your job now is to help him realize which side of the fence he wants, how long will he be going limbo for you till he finally decides?
How longer will you be in plan A?
I'm glad things are better!
Sounds like you have done an awesome plan A!
Hope things changes soon! Either he finally recommits or you going into plan B.
Good luck lady!
yeah I talked to him today and I asked him what was it that he was feeling....
I said I feel like no matter what I do flirt, joke, silent... or get mad.... it bothers you!
Every reaction is wrong and I feel like my very existance agravates him!
some days im stronger than others! today has been a rough day!
Lisa,
Go back and read the first few posts on your thread. Don't dwell on it all; just take a quick look and then think about how amazingly far you have come in such a short time. You began here totally hopeless and helpless but now you have hope and can help yourself.
An the rest of us are still here to help you when you need us.
You are doing an amazing job!
Mark
Lisa,
IMO, more Plan A isn't going to pull your H down off the fence. That's what Plan B is for.
Dr H says Plan A only works 15% of the time ~ it is really meant as a foundation for Plan B. I really think it's time for you to get your Plan B lined up. It's time to show your WH your boundaries...
Any time you get a negative reaction to your plan A efforts you know you are getting through. Expect it and stop taking it personally. Mark is right, you have come a long, long way! Please decide on a date that you will go to plan b if he has not met your conditions for R and then keep up your plan A.
Just remember to shake off the moments he gets annoyed with you. Glad you check in.
He is being especially hurtfull today! I am trying not to react but it has been tough!
He is aggraved with me because i was flirty with him today!
He told me that he is conflicted and that when he is home he thinks he can do it and ut feel rite and that he is comfortable but others he feels he is better off by himself....
He thinks we are fighting even when we are not just because i chose to dissagree or to ignore his behavior or comments in an adult even tone voice or an even temper manner....
i know plan A might not work but I am frustrated by his lack of resolve....since he can have his cake and eat it to so to speak!
He gets the comforts of home and then he leaves to live the bachelor life
He told me I have to move on and he cant expect me to wait for him to make up his mind?
He told me I have to move on and he cant expect me to wait for him to make up his mind?
Hmm...Sounds like you need to start preparing yourself with plan B...it's coming!!
I know I think so too probably next couple of weeks if not sooner...
He also told me that he doesnt want me to move on but cant expect me to wait till his [censored] makes up his mind....
Not my words his sorry for the curse!
dumb butt!
LOL didnt know i would get sensored! how funny!
plus i want to stay in plan A untill I can no longer stand it!
plus i want to stay in plan A untill I can no longer stand it!
What tool will you use to measure this?
plus i want to stay in plan A untill I can no longer stand it!
What tool will you use to measure this?
I dont know! I guess when I can no longer tolerate the situation pain wise!
Lisa,
One of the keys to Plan A is only continuing it until you have decided it isn't going to bring him home. At that point, you enter Plan B mode so that you still love him when things turn around.
If you remain in Plan A too long, striving to meet his ENs while getting nothing from him in return and he continues the Love Busters that take away from his account in your Love bank, you will end up not only not loving him, but begin to dislike or even hate him. Once you reach that point recovery is almost impossible because you won't want to recover anything with him because just being with him or thinking of him will be too painful for you.
So set up an intermediary that can filter messages from him so that you don't have to deal with his crap all the time and write out a Plan B letter and get it posted here so that you can get additional input on it before you reach the point where you are no longer thinking and acting but feeling and reacting to his garbage.
My take on his on again off again demeanor is that there is still contact with OW. Someplace, somehow, some way he is getting his fix from her and when he does, he leans that direction. Then he is with you and he leans your way, but hen he feels the withdrawal from her and has contact with her then is less resolved to return to you.
It honestly isn't that he doesn't want you, Lisa. He is just trying to figure out a way to keep you both. Absolutely typical wayward husband...
Mark
Lisa,
I think you have your husband weighing things out quite nicely, you said he almost kissed you, keep a good Plan A and the next time he might....I used to ask for hugs from my husband just to get me through a tough moment, he said okay, at first he didn't even hug back and it only lasted a couple of seconds, as time when on I could feel him hugging back and it would last longer each time.....he was also getting comfort out of the hugs and I think we both looked forward to them.......this was when he was still telling me that he loved another woman.....it was a way of connecting for us with a little memory attached to it........
He backs away from you because of guilt and fear of being hurt by you.....keep telling him he won't lose you unless he calls your relationship off........
I'd do Plan A for a couple more weeks, see how it goes, if you can get him away alone for a day build some memories for him to look back on when he is mulling things over.......get ready for Plan B......and know that none of this is a guarantee but you are at least giving it a good try........he would be gone by now if he wanted to be..........keep your chin up, feel the power you have and you do, you just don't know it right now...........
Lisa, I think part of starting Plan A is making preparations for your Plan B behind the scenes, at the beginning, so you are ready to enter Plan B instantly at a moment's notice.
Dr. Harley says:
But before you begin plan A, prepare for plan B, which is to completely separate from your husband. You can't simply move out of the bedroom. You must move from the house, or have him move. If you live in a state that supports legal separation, go to the trouble to see an attorney so that all financial and legal arrangements are made in advance.
Lisa,
One of the keys to Plan A is only continuing it until you have decided it isn't going to bring him home. At that point, you enter Plan B mode so that you still love him when things turn around.
If you remain in Plan A too long, striving to meet his ENs while getting nothing from him in return and he continues the Love Busters that take away from his account in your Love bank, you will end up not only not loving him, but begin to dislike or even hate him. Once you reach that point recovery is almost impossible because you won't want to recover anything with him because just being with him or thinking of him will be too painful for you.
So set up an intermediary that can filter messages from him so that you don't have to deal with his crap all the time and write out a Plan B letter and get it posted here so that you can get additional input on it before you reach the point where you are no longer thinking and acting but feeling and reacting to his garbage.
My take on his on again off again demeanor is that there is still contact with OW. Someplace, somehow, some way he is getting his fix from her and when he does, he leans that direction. Then he is with you and he leans your way, but hen he feels the withdrawal from her and has contact with her then is less resolved to return to you.
It honestly isn't that he doesn't want you, Lisa. He is just trying to figure out a way to keep you both. Absolutely typical wayward husband...
Mark
I agree with Mark, Lisa you have been in plan A for a month and a half, that is plenty enough time for him to know exactly what he will be missing. Ask these questions....
Are the things I am doing and saying bringing him home?
Has he decided to recover the marriage?
Have I dont the best plan A I possibly can?
If the answers are no, no, and yes...then I suggest you..
Write your plan B letter, post it here so we can help you edit, and get into plan B as soon as you can.
We know you can do this Lisa, and we all know you are ready!
Lisa, I know you are scared about Plan B. All of us who have had to do a Plan B were scared of it too. The "what ifs" creep in. You start to worry about how you will get by without him in your life. Thing is, you don't want to live like this forever do you? Then you need to get prepared for your Plan B and you should execute it in days, not weeks. You CAN do this.
When you got here, you couldn't pull off a great Plan A. We all helped you and you are amazing at it now. You read things and learned things. You have faith and hope and you acted on what you thought was going to work. Well, now we are telling you that you need to end this Plan A and get into Plan B.
Who is going to be your IM? I think I suggested your Sis. What do you think about that? She can get help from the great people on here and I would even be willing to have her email a few messages to show her what she would and wouldn't pass on.
You would also have to get the visitation for the children set up and your finances all figured out.
You can do this and you really SHOULD do this. It is the best thing for you to do for your marriage and for yourself.
Lisa, how are you feeling about going into plan B sooner? Like this weekend!? I know I know....its 4th of july weekend! Honestly, he wont be there anyway...he'll be too busy texting the OW!
Better to have Plan B prepared and to have your mind and heart in sync than to leap to a Plan B that can't be followed for any reason.
PLAN out PLAN B before jumping into it. It will be much easier for you to follow it as a method of trying to save your marriage if you don't envision it as the end of the marriage.
Like any plan it takes planning and isn't just a default position like the rest of the world might use the term plan b, which means "I'm clueless." Plan B here is an actually PLAN and not just "a walk away and think about it" sort of thing.
It isn't break time from the drama until you get over you get over your own dramatics and understanding that Plan B is not the end but one more attempt to healing the relationship is a big factor. Plan B also is supposed to make him do anything at all. It is only supposed to give you that break you need once you understand that you can't control what he does by doing anything at all.
I said to PLAN for Plan B, not to BE in plan b by any near future time. The only way this stuff works is to make decisions using logic and thought processes rather than emotional reaction to individual events. That is why Plan A is so hard for some at first. You have to think your way into Plan B so that you know what to do about your feelings or you will still be reacting to your own drama and feelings all the time and Plan B will not have any beneficial effect and you'll burn out about three months from now.
Figure out who can be intermediary and make sure that person understands the role. Look into what it will take for separation of finances, and this might require seeing a lawyer and maybe even filing legal paperwork, in some states, beginning the divorce process itself though this can often be delayed for a couple of years without having to remove it from the table.
Questions to ask:
* How will you share child raising without seeing each other even at exchange time?
* How will your bills be paid without him being here? Do you need him to pay the bills to live? Then you need him to be legally accountable for paying the bills.
* Who will mow the lawn, trim the bushes, shovel the snow this winter, take the car in for repair when it needs things like oil changes, new tires or shocks?
* What actually will be the minimal investment by him for you to be willing to try to put this back together? This needs to be stated in the Plan B letter and you can't up the ante later. (I can give suggestions, but SAA and this website already have them)
* Can your chosen intermediary distinguish between what is an emergency that requires my attention and the normal bovine excrement of entitlement that goes with an affair? More importantly, can the IM be trusted to pass along to you information that will be critical in negotiating for him to return to the marriage? This is often a bigger failure in the whole process than passing along too much info, BTW, so be sure your IM understands and believes in your goal of saving your marriage and not just being away from him.
And we could list other questions as people think of them. That's my point, you don't jump into Plan B to get away. You have to develop Plan B to protect yourself. Causing more drama by being unprepared will not do what needs to happen for Plan B to have any beneficial effects for either the person in Plan B or the marriage. If it's giving up, it isn't Plan B.
Mark
Hey lady! Any update??
Hope your doing ok
Do we have to track you down to get an update?
Lisa! Where are you? Is everything ok?
Sorry Im back Had a really rough month trying to keep plan A in place
My husband told me I need to do 2 things in order for him to come home continue to lose weight and to stop the arguing!
I was floored that he would be that blunt to tell me he wants a wife he can be proud of that people wont talk about cause she is fat. My girlfriends were so angry at him for saying this to me but in a way I see his point about the weight.
I also have been very angry especially after I found out he saw her again that I have struggled to keep my plan A in place.
I have been taking care of myself going to the gym and having some night out with my friends. On several ocasions he has had fits of anger because he sees me all dressed up and going out without him so he then starts feeding me this bullcrap about not leaving the kids alone... My daughter is 14 now and can babysit for a few hours while I go out once in a while for drinks with the girls.
So fast foward to this past weekend...
He came over to help me reconnect the battery to the scooter which I connected wrong! wink wink... I asked him to go for a ride with me and the kids just to get out of the house and he was like no im leaving ...
I said ok and then he casually said as he is driving off maybe we can go to a movie later.... I said ok and walked away not realy thinking he meant me and him. So he then sends me a text like 2 hrs later to look up movie times so we can go.
I got dolled up in a dress I know he likes and off we went. It was a little akward at first but I just forced myself to keep the chatter up and actually got him laughing. I feel it went great by the end of the night i was dropping him off and he suddenly grabbed me and gave me a kiss on the cheek ... I joked and said since when do you kiss me on the cheek and he said were taking it slow this was a first date! I told him playing hard to get I see and he laughed as he walked away.
The next day we got into it cause of my stupid insecurities and jealousy .....
He said to me right now im making you my 1st choice I want us to date for the next month or so to see if we can work things out and then if it goes well we can plan me coming back home ... if not then we will have to go our separate ways.
He said he wants to see if he can get his love back for me because right now he loves me but not in the right way because I should be the first and last thing he thinks about and right now he doesnt.
I asked him if this was what he really wanted because if it was then we both had to start fresh today and forgive each other for the past. I also told him he is going to have to deal with my questioning him alot in the beginnig because he is asking for blind trust and I want transparency from him.
He said ok but that we are still separated and he wont question me if i want to go out and I shoudnt question him either. I just said yes to that since he is incapable of not questioning me all the time I am amused by that.
I also told him that we need to spend quality time together and if we arent then at least have some conversations again. He said as long as you understand sometimes I might not want to talk or I might not want to be on the phone for a realy long time! He said we are going to do this as if we are people who are in the inital stages of dating.
He also told me I need to realize he might not want to come home after this time period but that he wants to try to work things out.
So that where we left things last night... I am terrified to take this chance but at the same time I love him and want him back!
Also I found out that July 4th weekend he saw her at the club and said hi but he said he realized it would be an issue so he left the club. I know for a fact that he was at a different night club that night that the one he saw her but I was upset he didnt tell me.
I found about it 3 weeks or so ago from a mutual friend that saw him so you can imagine the problems that caused. He told me he hoped I wouldnt find out cause he knew it was going to get me angry.
I told him his honesty would have been better an would have kept me from going bullistic!
I also found out that he drives by her house now because of road construction that has deviated trafic to pass by her street. But its all very innocent! I say that with sarcasm!
So I beleive he is starting his withdrawl all over again.
So how am I going to get him to fall in love with me again?
Help me plan my attack because I have him on my side of the fence for now!
Lisa,
Thanks for the update, just take it day by day, look good, smell good when you see him.....
He sounds like he is willing to see where things might go, keep working on yourself and make your home a safe place for him to be.....
Show him he is the most important person in your life but don't just sit around waiting for him....
Keep busy with friends and your kids, show him you are okay and living your life without him.....
Just be the you, flirt, laugh......if he gets mad, so be it.......
little touches, look right into his eyes when you speak, tell him he looks good, let him do little jobs for you......all this makes him feel admired and needed....
It is very clear that he does not like your AO and he needs yout to be physically attractive. Do not think I am pinning this on you. I am just giving helpful pointers. These are things that will help your marriage in the future. My wife and I also need each other to be physically attractive, and I have to watch my tounge about DJ's.
How is your situation? It sounds like he is still not home, and you are still trying to plan A him. He is being a little more honest with you letting you know where he is driving, and going, but he is not complelty there.
How are you doing? Losing weight? Taking care of yourself? Feeling better or worse?
It sounds like he is still in limbo, I would not believe him when he say's he saw the OW at the night club and left.
I think for me I would go to plan B, you have done plan A long enough and it sounds like you are doing a GREAT job considering he is asking you out, but what I don't like is how is keeps gas lighting you "let's wait a month and date, and if it still doesn't work out we will still be separated" I don't like this comment, I would not wait another month to see how it "Goes" I would go to plan B and let him know exactly how it will be like being "REALLY" separated! Get it over with as soon as possible so he can make his choice, if he does end up leaving during plan B then there is where you will find his TRUE answer, (he was only gas lighting you so you can get his needs met with you and with the OW) if he does end up coming home and fixing the marriage then you will know for sure that he DOES want to fix the marriage. But this limbo he is doing is driving you nuts of jealousy.
You were so ready for plan B last month, what are you waiting for?
I cant bring myself to do plan B yet!
I do have confirmation from another friend that he did leave and ended up in a different club and that they did not see him speaking to her that it was a hi and bye situation
I know he isnt seeing her for sure!
I feel like he wants to come home but we have had some fights and I told him he cant come home untill we work some things out.
I do beleive he is being honest when he tells me he wants to try to get his love back for me.
Im just confused whith all the what if's!
Plan B will be impossible now anyway my son just started football so we see each ther at practice everyday and will on game days!
I think I will go on dates and see where we are at in a couple of weeks if it still isnt what I expected or want then Ill do plan B.
And yes I go to the gym every day! I have lost a total of 35 lbs, im dressing differently, im looking my best 90% the time....
If you want to plan A then get him back into the house. If you want plan B give him a plan B letter and stop talking to him and go dark. This seperation doesn't help your marriage at all. You will have to pick one or the other. I would vote on getting him back into the house and do a stellar plan A until the cards line up and its time to do a plan B.
Good job on the weight loss and looking your best. I hope it makes you feel good. I know Sapph's hair rules how she feels.....ha ha ha.
I agree with Wheels.
The problem is if he won't come back home...it is because he is still in contact (even if just by phone) with OW and you're not going to get far getting him to fall back in love with you. It's just going to be the equivanlent of banging your head against the wall.
Plan A is meant to show a "willingness to meet ENs and stop lovebusters" which you have done. Doing Plan A too long leads to many bad things including an inability to control lovebusters...compromising your emotional health & well-being... and your H becoming accustomed to fence-sitting which actually hurts the chances for a real recovery in the future.
I think sometimes BSs become so narrowly focused on winning back the WS that you lose sight of the big picture
Again, if he won't come back home & agree to be transparent, I would move to Plan B.
Hi Lisa,
Have you been in Plan A all this time? A real Plan A, No LB's, actively meeting his top EN's? Sounds like you've done a good job getting him to this point.
Your energy seems high, can you do this for another month?
With three school-aged children and your enthusiasm level high, I'd probably go the Plan A route (I only read the first page of your thread, so I take it back if he beats you or is otherwise batchit crazy).
And I'd focus that Plan A on eliminating your LB's as much if not more than meeting his EN's. Really drill down on the LB's, think hard about any little thing you may have not considered.
What do you want to do?
The problem is she has been doing Plan A for over two months. Dr H recommends 3-4 weeks.
The longer you do Plan A, your ability to control lovebusters actually diminishes.
Yeah, I was concerned about the length of her Plan A too, but I was not sure how stellar of a Plan A she did.
However, she needs to permanently eliminate AO's ANYWAY. Those never do you any good. And getting in shape ANYWAY is good, too.
I did a Plan A for a little over a month whilst my H was still foggy (I didn't know he was still in contact), and it was HELL. It definitely got harder and harder to control my emotions.
I hate seeing BS continue Plan A for months without even a hint of getting Plan B ready.
Please, lisa, Plan A is not meant to be a way of life. Time to concentrate on getting you & your kids to a healthy place...and establish boundaries with your H. He needs to learn he doesn't get all the benefits of a family and W working hard to meet his ENs while he sits on a fence.
she is doing an awesome job on plan a!!
Lisa if you won't do plan B your best bet is to have him move back home.
Seriously? Why are we not talking about the fact that it seems that the WH is leading this relationship. We already know what he did with this marriage already, he went and got himself a girlfriend and now he wants to make his perfect little Stepford wife and she needs to conform to his ideals and HIS whims or SHE IS GONE?
Lisa, listen up. Do you want this to be your life? do you want to continue to live like this? Do you not believe in what DrH has stated is the way to attempt to recover your marriage?
You need to go into Plan B.
You needed to go into Plan B over a month ago. I know that you are scared but you need to take a leap of faith. You need to do the plans here. You already did this your way and look where it got you. Please Lisa, for yourself, do this the right way.
Have faith in the plans and work them. You can't say that MB didn't work if you don't actually work the plans. It's just like a diet program, it won't work if YOU don't do it.
Come on Lisa, you know what you need to do. You might be scared. You might not want to let go. You need to do this the right way.
Call the coaching center, they will give you a solid plan of your own. You already tried this your own way.
Seriously? Why are we not talking about the fact that it seems that the WH is leading this relationship. We already know what he did with this marriage already, he went and got himself a girlfriend and now he wants to make his perfect little Stepford wife and she needs to conform to his ideals and HIS whims or SHE IS GONE?
Lisa, listen up. Do you want this to be your life? do you want to continue to live like this? Do you not believe in what DrH has stated is the way to attempt to recover your marriage?
You need to go into Plan B.
You needed to go into Plan B over a month ago. I know that you are scared but you need to take a leap of faith. You need to do the plans here. You already did this your way and look where it got you. Please Lisa, for yourself, do this the right way.
Have faith in the plans and work them. You can't say that MB didn't work if you don't actually work the plans. It's just like a diet program, it won't work if YOU don't do it.
Come on Lisa, you know what you need to do. You might be scared. You might not want to let go. You need to do this the right way.
Call the coaching center, they will give you a solid plan of your own. You already tried this your own way.
THANK YOU!!
When I first saw her post I was SOOO hoping she said she has been in plan B, and when I found out that she was STILL in plan A...well..sigh...I was not happy.
Lisa, it has been one month since your last post and NOTHING I mean NOTHING has changed in your husband, how long are you going to do this?
2 months?
4 months?
12 months?
Sweetie you can't do it that LONG!!
Get your letter!
START PLAN B!
I want to do plan A for a while longer because I havent honestly been doing plan A for the last moth or so
I kind of gave up because i wanted instant results
I wanted it my way now
I have been in contact with the OH and he assured me that they are no olnger in contact as well
My husband told me yesterday after a quite nasty fight that he feel like I will never be able to forgive him and that he feels like im deliberately trying to hurt him
I have been deliberately trying to hurt him.... I am ashamed because I just gave up on all the work that i had done and reverted to bad behaviors and LB
I do beleive that he is ready to give up for good he said he cant take the fights anymore and all we are doing is hurting the kids!
I failed and its no ones fault but my own
This is ridiculous- you didn't fail, why are you taking all the blame and being the victim? You DO need to eliminate LB's, you DO need to work on your part in the marriage to make it better-
BUT PUT THE BLAME FOR THIS WHERE IT BELONGS- ON HIM.
HE has to face the consequences of his actions. HE has to do what YOU need to heal. Call the Harleys, get a REAL plan.
Set your WH- FWH, whatever, down and explain how much this has hurt you, how confused and sad you are, how much you want it to work and know you have things to work on as well, but that HE needs to work WITH you on doing all this.
Does your snooping show that he is not in contact with anyone else?
Has he recently shown any type of change that indicates that he is no longer in an affair?
Whether he is in an affair or not you have got to stop all love busts. Find ways to diffuse yourself from any heated situation. What works best for you? Do not withdraw or avoid the issue because whatever is making you two angry is something that needs to be addressed and removed from your lives. I find that AO's in our house happen because there is another Love Bust or EN not being met and resentment builds to the point of an AO. By removing LBs and working on ENs neither me or sapph had an AO since sapph was in an A.
If you are convinced that your WH is not in an affair 100% then plan A is not the best way to go, but it is a starting place for recovery. If your WH is still in an affair, maybe not with the previous OW, then check yourself and evaluate whether or not you still want to continue plan A. Remeber plan B was mentioned many times, but it all depends on you and your emotional status wheter to plan A or plan B. If you can not do another plan A and you start to LB WH chops and he does the same to you, then it is time for a plan B.
Your plan A is not working any longer, if you don't go into plan B immediately then you will always be here, trying to get your husband back.
You know what you need to do.
He is still gas lighting you, even if HE HASN'T seen this OW, he is still in LIMBO land!
He is blaming you for everything, so your going to sit there and take it? I am sorry, you should have been in plan B 2 months ago.
Good luck on the next 5 years because if you don't do anything NOW then it WONT EVER happen. Sorry to be harsh but I'm a little disappointed that you think you didn't do good on plan A which I believe you DID AWESOME! and now you are listening to your husband?? He is still a wayward! Why are you listening to him?
You should NOT start another plan A, you should have been in plan B for 2 months now, and I bet you ANYTHING...ANYTHING plan B would have only lasted for a month, he could have been home recovering the marriage with you RIGHT NOW if you had listened to us.
Sigh...I'm out
Good luck Lisa, remember that you are in my prayers.
I am sure I have constantly been snooping and can account for his actions and he has been spending alot of time with us at the house. I have even been spoofing numbers that he calls or text alot to make it seem like my call is coming from his phone and every time I have been able to verify who it is.
I have had friends of mine that live next to his dad where he is staying telling me he is always in the house and looks miserable
that he was happier when we were together.
I think he want to get back but I have made it difficult reinforcing his decision to stay away with LB and AO
I explained to him that we cant fix our marriage if we dont commit to spending the time needed getting to know eachother again and trying to forgive eachother. I told him he wont rediscover his love for me as he puts it unless he actually commits the time needed for us to work on our issues of trust and everything else. I was packing up the rest of his things and he was upset saying he wasnt ready to do that because everything wasnt said and done yet.
He said he doesnt know if he wants to because he is just exhausted mentally from all the fighting.
He is still talking to me and were still texting eachother so I know if I fully commit to it I can do plan A for a while yet
I am not giving up yet on Plan A
Maybe Im naive but I beleive I can turn this around If I actually stick to my plan and stop listening to others advice.
Im sorry you feel that way Sapphire... I want to just try for a little while longer before I go into plan B
You CAN help turn it around by eliminating LB's. Definitely- but remember who should be doing the heavy lifting here. Were things in the marriage perfect for you? But did you go and have an affair? He needs to show his committment to you and to your marriage.
FWIW
He needs to show his committment to you and to your marriage.
FWIW
and the only way for him to "SEE" this is if you go go plan B.
Lisa -- can you afford counseling with MB?
I don't think you should go to Plan B -- because I don't think you have done Plan A, or that you even understand the concepts here.
Maybe you could approach your husband and tell him that you know there are things you need to work on -- but you can't do it alone. You have found a great marriage coach, and you would like him to participate with you.
Get some sessions scheduled with Jennifer or Steve. You'll get your chance to inform them of the affair and they can work on him. In the meantime, you will get the guidance you need to start eliminating lovebusters.
You really need to eliminate those from your marriage. Your husband is telling you very clearly that your behavior is chasing him away, even with OW out of the picture. Those complaints are valid. You need to work on this.
She actually did do a good Plan A. But for too long and things went downhill.
Lisa, Plan A is all GIVER. You can't do it for very long before you start to break down and the TAKER rears its ugly head.
I have read here before that once you lose the ability to control your lovebusters, you need to move to Plan B. The problem is you moved to Plan C, Plan Confusion.
If you want to continue with Plan A. I would do it very very short, maybe just a week or two and then move to Plan B.
But doing a Plan A without thoughts in your mind to Plan B also sets you up for lovebusters IMHO. You need to set the date for Plan B and stick with it, Lisa.
I disagree. Lisa came here because she was doing Plan Lisa and it wasn't working.
We were able to coach her on a daily basis for what? maybe a week? before she disappeared from the board and went back to Plan Lisa.
The marriage builders plans require self-control. This would be a good skill for Lisa to learn.
Lisa -- do you have the book "lovebusters"? If not, get it.
Work on your half of the marriage. Get the Harley's to work on his.
And its going to take more than a couple weeks of CONSISTANT behavior to convince your husband that you can change. This is not a case where two weeks of Plan A will do the trick.
I think if they could get into counseling with the Harley's, then Lisa could have coaching on her lovebusting behavior, while he gets coaching on his wayward behavior.
Oh, and it really doesn't matter if OWH told you he can't find evidence of contact.
The minimum requirements for you to be invested in the M should be:
1) NC
2) move back home
3) agree to plan of R, spending 15 hrs UA time a week together
4) phone coaching with the Harleys
5) O&H, transparency accounting for all of his time, giving you access to all passwords.
I want you to get out of this mindset that you need to do all the heavy lifting. Accept crumbs and that's what you'll get...crumbs. Time to start setting the bar HIGH and expecting more from your WH.
I disagree. Lisa came here because she was doing Plan Lisa and it wasn't working.
She actually turned things around and started doing a very good Plan A around the beginning of June.
Close to the end of June, some of us started telling her to look at Plan B...
But I agree it would be great if she would coach with Steve. I just don't agree w/her perception that doing a better longer Plan A is going to bring her H home.
What she is in is what Dr Harley calls "Plan C",["compromise"] the most likely thing to lead to divorce. That is because she has been in Plan A for too long. Plan A is only supposed to last 3 to 4 weeks for women and then they start breaking down and engaging in lovebusting. That is why Plan B should be entered sooner rather than later.
The bad thing about this situation is if she goes into Plan B right now, the last thing he will remember is her lovebusters which is likely to end the marriage. And the marriage may already be over, but if it can be saved, here is what I think is her best bet:
1. do a stellar Plan A for only 2 to 3 more weeks. TOPS. NO LONGER THAN THAT. No mistakes, no messing up, no excuses.
2. after 2 weeks go to him and tell him "this is what it will take to interest me in staying in this marriage, otherwise I am moving on. Affair proofing the marriage and building a romantic marriage where we are both in love and happy using a Marriage Builders coach.
3. If he says no, then send him a Plan B letter and shut the door.
Lisa, you are causing more harm to your marriage by staying in touch with him and tearing yourself down in the process. Like Dr Harley says, Plan "C" for compromise is the most likely to lead to divorce.
Unfortunately I can not afford coaching session here!
I am aware that I have greatly contributed to the demise of my marriage.. the one thing that was the biggest issue for him is exactly what I was unable to do! And I know it is an excuse
I am very devastated all over again!
What she is in is what Dr Harley calls "Plan C",["compromise"] the most likely thing to lead to divorce. That is because she has been in Plan A for too long. Plan A is only supposed to last 3 to 4 weeks for women and then they start breaking down and engaging in lovebusting. That is why Plan B should be entered sooner rather than later.
The bad thing about this situation is if she goes into Plan B right now, the last thing he will remember is her lovebusters which is likely to end the marriage. And the marriage may already be over, but if it can be saved, here is what I think is her best bet:
1. do a stellar Plan A for only 2 to 3 more weeks. TOPS. NO LONGER THAN THAT. No mistakes, no messing up, no excuses.
2. after 2 weeks go to him and tell him "this is what it will take to interest me in staying in this marriage, otherwise I am moving on. Affair proofing the marriage and building a romantic marriage where we are both in love and happy using a Marriage Builders coach.
3. If he says no, then send him a Plan B letter and shut the door.
Lisa, you are causing more harm to your marriage by staying in touch with him and tearing yourself down in the process. Like Dr Harley says, Plan "C" for compromise is the most likely to lead to divorce.
Lisa you can't live like this for ever.
Unfortunately I can not afford coaching session here!
I am aware that I have greatly contributed to the demise of my marriage.. the one thing that was the biggest issue for him is exactly what I was unable to do! And I know it is an excuse
I am very devastated all over again!
Lisa, if you can't afford coaching, that is ok. We can direct you through this program successfully using the $11 workbook and a couple of MB books.
What do you think of my suggestions above?
the one thing that was the biggest issue for him is exactly what I was unable to do!
What does this mean?
I mean that he was constantly telling me that my AO and LB were pushing him further away from me instead of making him want to come home.
He keeps telling me that everytime we try to reconsile we have a huge fight and that it makes it harder for him to deside
I purchased love busters and am actualy reading it and the workbook.....
at this point i have lost hope!
Lisa123prpe,
Okay just brush yourself off and start again, Plan A your husband for 3 weeks, all giver no taker......
Then tell him that he must decide what he will do, if he choses to not work on the marriage then you give him the Plan B letter and go dark....
No half way anymore, control yourself, work on yourself and let him come to you.
Give it time, don't talk to him, ask him to go through someone else if he has anything to discuss with you, that you need the space and time.....
Sorry to see your plan A sap you so much. I would suggest jessi's advice and do a very short very powerful plan A, get your ducks in a row for plan B and execute it. the plan B is for your benifit so you do not have to go through this type of torture. An extended plan A builds resentment and depression to the point that you feel like you are now. Letting yourself be tortured is destroying you and your marriage quicker. Please be kind to yourself and give yourself a break.
![[Linked Image from cool-smileys.com]](http://www.cool-smileys.com/images/65.gif)