I know I am reading love busters because according to her his needs were pretty clear, Communication, understanding, acceptance, me taking care of my weight issues and self esteem and less AO and DJ from me and more time spent doing things recreationaly.

From what she explained he is pretty much in the fogg right now but is realizing what he doesnt want and that is to loose our family or me! Matbe the fogg is lifting slightly!

So I have to formulate a solid plan A including some of the changes he really needs to see from me regarding myself the house and the kids!

So I have hope now when I thought it was hopless and all was lost!

-----------------------
ME BS 34
WH 36
DDay 5/1/10
Moved out 5/14/10
Plan A 6/1/10
No longer an Army of 1

You are doing good, lisa...keep it together, you can do it.

Lisa,

From the description of the things the friend said about the conversation with him, I see some possible ideas for you in Plan A.

Killing the Love Busters is good. AOs are easy to identify but DJs are a bit tricky to get a handle on sometimes. Still, if you can get these under control, you will not be undoing everything in the way of progress made by trying to meet his ENs.

From what you describe I see as some of his top ENs:

Physical Attractiveness; weight can be a big issue for some, but at least as important is how you present yourself when around him. This can be as much mental as it is mere appearance but endeavor to look and smell as good as you can whenever you see him face to face. BE attractive.

Admiration; this is probably at the root of his talking about being accepted and understood.

Recreational Companionship; not a surprise at all since this is one of the big ones for most men. It is also one of the 4 Intimate Emotional Needs that Dr Harley stresses are so important to being met whenever you are alone together during UA time.

The communication thing can be a bit tricky. He might clearly have a need for conversation but could also have a need for Openness and Honesty (always makes me laugh when a person who has been lying about an affair has this as a top need, yet it is probably the way a lot of affairs begin). This could also be related to not really having a clue what you need from him. This can lead to a lot of frustration for many men since we often feel that our wives expect us to know what you need without actually telling us what that is. No matter how great a marriage, mind reading isn't something we can accomplish very well.

There is also something that needs to be kept in mind whenever we examine ENs right after the discovery of an affair. The thing that is most lacking is always the thing that is most important to us. This really goes beyond just stuff surrounding the affair and gets right to the heart of many marital problems so it is something you need to be aware of.

I often explain it like this. If you are wandering around outside in a blizzard without a coat, your number one need is to get warm. If someone invites you inside to sit by the fire, you can begin to warm up and after a brief time you might realize that you are also desperately thirsty and need something to drink. Once you have consumed some water or maybe a hot beverage, then you might also realize that you haven't eaten in a while and so you desire something to eat as well. The most absent need is the one that is most important.

Now for most men, SF is a big issue. Of course during an affair, this need is often being met by the OW even in an EA where no actual sex is taking place. The testosterone driven sex drive (in both men and women) can in itself be the stimulus to provide whatever is needed by a man even if he isn't getting a completed sex act on a regular basis. This doesn't last forever this way and eventually must lead to actual sex or he becomes frustrated.

But still, based on what you were told, I would work overtime at meeting his EN for RC which the vacation with him and the kids would probably accomplish in spades. I'd also work on looking good and smelling great whenever you are around him. You can work on the weight thing, but make the best of what you have to offer. Also be sure to find things to admire about him and let him know in subtle ways that you in fact admire him for them. Praise him for his job, his being a dad to the kids, his ability to fix things... If he is good at stuff like this, you can use this to your advantage. Find stuff that needs fixing around the house and ask him to come fix them. Then thank him, tell him you couldn't have done it yourself and you are so glad that he has the ability to fix stuff for you.

Now, as for Plan B...

Consider your options for getting into a Plan B at some point, probably a lot sooner than you might want to since you do need to protect yourself from his continuing affair or you will not love him enough to want him when the affair ends. Begin to plan this step now since you can always not go to Plan B if the affair crashes and you find yourself beginning to try recovery.

But before going dark and letting the affair run its course with the resulting time away from each other, give him the best Plan A that you can muster since making him desire being with you will be the only thing that will make him want to come home after a protracted separation. If the separation seems like a punishment or a first salvo in the battle of divorce, that is the way he will think of it even when the affair ends. He has to remember your fondly as the wife who was willing to let him make it up to you and was capable of meeting his ENs or he won't want to come home whether the fantasy of the affair is there or not.

PLAN A your tush off while getting your ducks in a row for PLAN B so that if you get to separation it might lead to reconciliation rather than divorce. I the plan is to never allow him to be your husband, never to meet his ENs and only to punish him, get a lawyer and start Plan D at once.

Mark

MarK
That is great advice I did start the gym for myself because I do not feel comfortable at my present weight I have lost over 20 lbs so far and he has noticed the changes in my appearance.

I also know he wants honesty because he told me that I have been dishonest with him towards certain things like contacting the OH and such or going into his facebook page... ECT.

I know he needs conversation but he is very reticent to open up to me right now. I do not know what to say or talk about that doesnt have to do with the kids or the issues at hand! Its funny that I can talk to strangers about anything since I am very outgoing but with him nothing.... my mind goes blank.

He aslo had been offering to teach me how to drive his motorcycle and was very surprised when I told him I was going to take the couse.

This was something he asked of me but I refused to do so.
He has also given me a helmet and offered rides all under the excuse of friendship

He did come over last weekend and washed all the cars, cut the grass, and even fixed my sons bike under the frienship and I just want to help you excuse. It was almost like he was just looking for an excuse to hang out.

I just need to take this at face value right now and not let it get my hopes too high!
Addressing the SF issue in our relationship I was the person always tring to get sex from him. He told me he felt he couldnt satify me and I feel becasue I always wanted the act not the hand holding or touching or any of the other things that lead up to sex and intimacy.

I do not know why but I always hated cuddling or spooning and he loved doing that and would be hurt saying I wouldnt do that with him unless he gave me sex.

I do not know what the underlying issue for me was for being obssed with having sex with him but even know that my libido is next to nothing I see him and I crave his touch and the experience of us being together in that way.

I will definitely implement some of the changes you mentioned and see how we go from there.

----------------------
ME BS 34
WH 36
DDay 5/1/10
Plan A formulation 6/1/10

No longer an army of 1

You do realize that this part is bovine excrement, right?

Having a secret second life is what makes affairs possible. This is why Dr Harley talks about radical honesty, that is, complete transparency between spouses where neither one has anything that is hidden from the other. When in an affair, a WS often cries for privacy, what they really seek is secrecy to continue doing what they have done.

A WS also almost always cries foul and tries to deflect blame when they find out that they have been discovered to be liars. They will claim that the BS lied to them, used underhanded tactics etc when it is they who violated the trust in the marriage.

The Openness and Honesty that is an emotional need is the need for sharing of events of the day, feelings, desires, hopes and dreams for the future etc. This is what seems to be in place during the beginning stages of an affair that makes it so attractive to some, yet eventually the fact that the affair is actually only a made up fantasy shows itself and in order to sustain the relationship the APs have to begin lying to each other as well as those around them. If O&H is in fact a real EN for one of them, if the BS begins meeting this need in earnest, sometimes it might be enough to trigger the desire to return to the marriage.

But this idea that the BS has lied in order to gain access to the things that affect them directly and the fact that their marriage is under attack is pure bullchit! It is gaslighting and nothing more. Give it no consideration. You don't have to call him out on it right now and make his life hell for saying something like that but just know that this in itself is a lie. That is why I said I always laugh at waywards that seem to have a high need for honesty, since they have no concept of what being honest really means.

The rest seems to me to be at least a plan and a plan is what you need. It has to be things that you will do to change the things that you have control over, none of them related to what he is doing or might do. It is a step by step list of changes you will make and things that you will do in spite of and despite whatever he chooses to do. It is not a reaction to what he is doing but something you can do that will make you a better wife and show him by your actions that it is so.

As you proceed, consider options for an intermediary to carry out the tasks of communications between you if you go to Plan B since while in Plan A and before you are burned out totally is the time to make those kinds of decisions. Also put your requirements for him to return to the marriage down on paper. These are not for him right now, but for you so that you might gain clarity and know what you will need from him if he ever decides to return to the marriage.

In other words, Plan A your ever firmer butt off while preparing for Plan B in the case you need to go there because only about 15% reach the point of attempting recovery as the result of Plan A.

Plan B then isn't the end, but the next step in a plan to save your marriage when the affair dies. Plan B is not for him, it is for YOU. The same can be said about Plan A. Plan A makes you the best YOU that YOU can be while Plan B lets YOU gain strength and avoid the pain of watching the one you love destroy all of your hopes and dreams on a daily basis.

Make at home with you better than even his wildest fantasy and no other woman will be able to compete for long. If you make being with you harder than being alone, he will choose even that. So fix what you have control over. Kill those DJs and AOs. Watch out for IB and SDs as well but don't fail to simply demand that he not share your marriage with any other woman since your marriage is for the two of you alone and not something to be shared with others. Make the marriage something he is willing to invest in and then it is up to him to decide what he will do.

Meet his ENs as much as he allows.
Avoid Love Busters since these will make an affair more attractive than the marriage.
Have no expectations that he will react in any way to what you are doing.

Mark

Nicely put Mark

I do want to say that his FB account he deactivated it as of monday night becsuse of our fight over it monday.

Do not know if this is good or bad. He told me he doesnt need if it going to cause so many issues.

The only issue for me was he was trying to look at her facebook page to get his fix I guess and he actually accused me of deleting her off his page!

I told him she must have deleted him because I did not which was the truth but it just bothered me.

Yesterday was better , today hopefully better yet.

He told me he went to therapy today and whe i asked him if it helped he said only because he can vent his feelings but that he already knows what they have to say.

He didnt tell me what that was but I told him well you need to decide if that is what you need but I am proud of you for at least going and trying to get help for your issues.

-------------------
ME BS 34
WH 36
DDay 5/1/10

No longer and army of 1

Just remember that it is a roller coaster ride. There will be ups and there will be downs. The higher the up part, the longer the plummet when you hit that drop.

As time goes on and you begin to learn to adjust your own emotional state a bit, you will be able to ward off those hard falls and if recovery actually takes place, the road gets smoother as you go along. It just isn't going to be instant pudding I'm afraid.

Good Plan A moment, this... Admiration...check!

Mark

Thanks Mark I did feel like that was good way to encourage him.
He didnt reply back to my text message but I know he read it so I feel good!

Just a bit paniky today since we have not really been talking today only when he sends me a text and I reply!

Going to see therapist today for meds!

I'm telling you Lisa! Get a base ball bat or some stick, and pound out all that emotion on your bed or pillow lol (i usually pound out on my bed) I know it helps me out in some issues I have in my life.

Your doing great Lisa! So proud of you!

It is very simple to deactivate a FB page and then reactivate it later. Snoop, Lisa.

As far as his therapy goes - I am concerned that he is going to therapy so he can say he went to therapy. I haven't heard of too many people who have said IC helped recover the M from an A, especially when the A is active or the WS is foggy.

He is going to therapy for the depression but he just told me today he might not go anymore so its really up to him!

Also I know it can be reactivated so I changed the notification email to mine at work as well as his login password! I further sent an email for complete deletion so since he has a 14 day grace period for deletion he wont be able to log in an reactivate the account because I did those things!

I am going to stick to my plan A but I am going into this with my eyes wide open now!

He also cant use our email address here so the only place he has left is at work and that is a public computer with no access to anything not even email or facebook so hopefully that area is covered.

Should I worry about his IC?

He can change his name slightly (middle initial) and open a new account. He can use his real name and open a new account with a new base city. He can open another email account that you "won't find." Keep snooping. There is also a feature that allows FB users to have private friends. I'm sorry if you've already addressed this, but do you have a keylogger on your computer?

Well he came over to see the kids and I was in a pretty summer dress looking very cute with sandals and my makeup done, as well as smelling good!!! He asked me where I was going I said to my therapist he said looking like that! He got kin of irritated and said whatever!

He then went on to ignore me and went upsatirs where he promptly discovered that the facbook account was deleted! He went off asking me why I did it!

I calmly looked at him and said well we agreed to it right. And he looked at me and was like yes but that's when we were fighting I thought you were over it.
I again calmly asked him why it was so upsetting to him since he was the one that suggested I do it to avoid any issues!

He was ticked off and said well you shouldn't have deleted it without telling me. I'm barely on anyways.

I was so hurt but I just looked at him entered the new password and let him reactivate the account.

I then told him we agreed to the deletion because I did not want you on her account and it was part of the no contact

He then said I only looked at her wall and I can only send her an email and you can look in the history I didn't do it

I said fine but I am very hurt by this reversal you know how I feel about the NC agreement.

He then told me would you rather I have a face book page you didn't know about? You have my password and there is nothing to hide!

I repeated that those words hurt me and that it was up to him to decide but that he knew how I felt.


I said I need to go to therapy and said bye.

I went to therapy let it all out and explained that I need meds to help me control my emotions!

She told me to contact my PCP. So I am waiting for him to call me back.

I am very hurt by all this but I controlled my emotions and I know this is par for the course but it is still very painful that he is obviously trying to get his fix of her anyway he can

It is getting close to Plan B time for you, missy...He is definitely in contact with OW....Just keep your emotions in check...IDK if you should have erased his FB account without him there..It might have been kind of an LB, you prolly should have done it with him there.

See if you can go to a psychiatrist after you get some emergency Ad's from your PCP...They are more specialized and maybe can give you better meds or a combo....

Okay, Lisa, you need to be O&H with US too. You see you posted that your WH deleted FB on Monday night. Now we find out that YOU actually deleted it. WHen was that BTW.

At first, you saying that HE deleted it makes it seem like he is trying to do things FOR you. Now you are upset by his reaction to the deleted FB account.

You are confusing ME.

If you are in Plan A, you need to be in PLan A. Then you can move to Plan B.

I am so confused as to what to advise you because you seem to tell us contradicting things. I thought you were going to take a little time away from your WH and then attempt Plan A when you had a better handle on yourself. Then I see you saying that you ARE in contact with him. Then you are doing a Plan A(I guess).

Hun, what do you want help with? Are you going to do YOUR plan and need this place to vent and share stuff? If that's it, then let us know.

Have you read EVERYTHING on here yet? I have asked this a FEW times. I don't think you answered yet.

He agreed to deactivate it on Monday and I deleted it today without consulting him....

I have been reading and re-reading... I guess I am not understanding the material as I should....

You are right he agreed to it but ultimately I did it today!
I have tried not to be in contact with him I haven't called him but I have answered his texts ...

He came by tonight and this is when all of this face book stuff happened!

I want to save my marriage and I just am sooo confused!
I think I have a handle on the material but then I do something wrong!

I have read all the threads you suggested and have kept reading the threads!

I need some tough love right now I do not want to push him into this woman's arms

I think he is very vulnerable and I do not want to give her that kind of power over us!

Did you expose to everyone? I cant remember...

Yup everyone know on our side but I don't know on her side!