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Thanks a lot sufficientgrace. I can't talk at the moment but will be back later, perhaps tomorrow. I appreciate your offer and I will take you up on it.

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can't say what my availability will be tomorrow. guess, we'll see.


take what helps and leave the rest
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Sorry it has taken me so long to get back but things have been really bad around here. I don't know what to do about his sexual needs anymore. I believe he may be a sex addict as well but I dont really know the symptoms of that. Would you mind to explain Sufficientgrace? Let me explain what happened today. This is the same scenario as the other day...I had to leave to go to the field and when I got there he texted me again and said he really needed "it" bad. By that he meant he needed me to help him out either by flirting on the phone or coming home. So instead of taking the same route as I did the other day and just trying to encourage him that he could get through this...I did what he wanted. I started doing some flirting . Which BTW makes me feel very dirty and he knows I'm not comfortable with it. But I did it anyway. So to make a long story short right in the middle of this he starts asking me if he was gonna be able to "finish up" now and get to make love to me tonight. I asked him to please go ahead and finish now. He didn't like that answer and got upset with me. He said he didn't see any reason that he couldn't have both. I tried to explain to him that it made me feel very taken advantage of. He said that it's not taking advantage of me it's just a husband needing his wife. He got so angry that he wound up punching a hole in the wall...which in turn infuriated me so I enlarged it for him. This is not the way sex in marriage is supposed to be and it's definately not supposed to turn into making holes in the walls. That part we're both wrong on. I just don't know how to handle fixing my sexual aversion while being married to a possible sex addict and porn addict. Any advice? I also apologize for any details that you didn't need, I just don't know how else to explain what goes on without the whole story.

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I'm sorry this is too late to help you with his antics today.

But here's a standard response to memorize while you are starting into your personal anon recovery:

WHAT'S IN IT FOR ME?

See, marital sex differs from addiction sex in one very important thing - it is a shared experience rather than a used experience where it becomes an appetite for be satiated. If he were consuming food at the rate he's demanding sex, he'd be a 500 pound fat-head!

Yes, he's addicted. But it's not for you or me to take his inventory and tell him that. But it is up to you to recognize that he's demanding you buy him the booze and serve it up to him, and every time you let him use you, you are enabling him - the tell-tale sign that you'd do well to get to an Al-Anon meeting of some kind as quickly as possible and start learning strategies to stop abusing yourself this way.

The recovered S-Anon response who hasn't all together jettisoned the active addict out of her life will have very strong boundaries, and refuse to take anything that comes out of his mouth personally.

The danger for you is that he will go somewhere else to get a fix and then expose you to whatever that skank was carrying. And he will lay on the guilt that he wouldn't have gone somewhere else if you had only just put out four times a day and phone sex, and anything else his drunken heart could desire.

And at the end of the day, you are lower than a prostitute and you know it - because at least a prostitute gets paid. You feel used and abused. And there is nothing coming back by way of a marriage.

If this is how you feel, you can be assured you are married to an addict.

Aversions grow out of being used. It's caused by abuse, either before marriage, or after marriage or both. It's caused by a lack of EMOTIONAL safety. Sex only has to be good for him, you know. Right? And it hasn't been good for you for a while - since the first time you got the message that he was looking through you into some fantasy, trying to adjust the picture so that the "real" experience felt like the fantasy. There's no emotional connection, which for women is, well, critical for us to not feel used.

If you are ready to step into personal recovery, let me know through the moderators. Click "Notify" and ask the moderators to give me your email address and I will get you an invitation to a closed online S-Anon meeting.

Then get a copy of the companion book for Alcoholics Anonymous for Al-Anon. Find a sponsor who will help you with your first step inventory - a list of all the things you are powerless over - and then get working on the steps for yourself. I have a personal recovery book based on the LDS faith called "He Did Deliver Me From Bondage" that is my personal favorite anon study guide. But anything that teaches the 12 steps and 12 traditions would be excellent to use.

The first time I went to a live al-anon meeting, I ran from the meeting! It was INSANE! They didn't follow the 12 traditions of the AA program, which provide safety but also help us Anons from running everybody else's lives except for our own. (Addicts get really ticked off at us Anons because we're so good at overcompensating for where they fall down in life - protecting them from the consequences of their behavior... but an addict doesn't find true recovery until they find their own inner "anon" - which is really cool because we start out facing our real powerlessness - over people places and things and addicts! naughty

Anyway - that's a long rambling answer because it's after midnight and like the insomniac that I am, I'm still up!

Hope this helps!

Expect things to get really ugly when you decide to not enable him anymore. I would read up in the newsletter forum on the general topics discussion board here - read "When to Call it Quits" parts one and two - and then get back with us on this board and we'll help you set up a Plan B if that's what you choose to do. Frankly, knowing what I know now, I would have done Plan B in 1996 while we were still trying to follow His Needs Her Needs.

Why?

Because if you are in a relationship with an active addict, Plan A kills the spouse of the addict - you get nothing in return to nurture you, and Plan A efforts are not even noticed or appreciated. They are EXPECTED! Talk about feeling USED!

Plan B cuts off the enabling spouse from the wayward/addicted spouse - and shields you from the abuse that withdrawal will create.

If you do this any differently, I promise you, if you thought today was bad, allow contact while you withdraw from being used. Today was a honeymoon by comparison!

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KA, you've hit the nail on the head perfectly!





Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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Thanks a lot for your help. You really shed some light into my situation. I want to do the necessary steps. I will see if I can figure out how to notify the moderators and get you my email address. I appreciate your wisdom and respect that a lot.

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Originally Posted By: MLG8878
Thanks a lot for your help. You really shed some light into my situation. I want to do the necessary steps. I will see if I can figure out how to notify the moderators and get you my email address. I appreciate your wisdom and respect that a lot.


Click on the "NOTIFY" button, at the bottom right hand side of every post. A window will pop up and you can ask the moderators to exchange the emails.





Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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I was about to respond being a bit more sympathetic to your H than others until I realized that he was also unfaithful.

Anyways what I was going to say is that I think that for many men, the desire for sex is in part just about a physical urge, but more powerfully it is about a desire to be desired or to feel sexually powerful. It really is a big part of how some men assess their self worth. Sometimes when a LD spouse is consenting to SF just to satiate their partner, not only is it damaging to the LD spouse who builds great resentment and eventually an aversion, but the HD spouse senses this and it makes the SF act feel empty and unfulfilling. In my opinion, while outright rejection of sex can be extremely hurtful to an HD spouse, feeling the failure of being unable to generate physical desire in your spouse, to feel wanted or needed even when you do have SF is even more damaging. As far as the emotional aspect of SF, pity or guilt sex is worse than no sex. Often the HD spouse feels completely trapped in this situation because they feel there is nothing they can do on their own to address this, and many feel like they cant bring up thier concerns with their spouse because it comes across as begging for sex, which when they want to feel desired, this has the complete opposite impact. My guess is that your H started down this path because he felt that you rejected him and not only were his ENs not met, but it was very hurtful to his self esteem. He tried to solve this without you which led to the very destructive independent behaviors he is currently engaged in. And the original problem is only compounded because his actions are increasing your aversion to him. No matter what he does it never feels sufficient, he is acting out to desperately try to fill this emotional void, and instead of trying to figure out why the "distractions" he is using are not satisfying him and in fact just making things worse, he is just ratcheting up his use and dependency on them.

You may consider reading the Sex Starved Marriage if you want to gain an understanding of his feelings in this. I think this may open your eyes to the level of pain and hurt that is driving some of you H's actions. This is not to obsolve him of any guilt, but it is good to understand that what is driving his behavior is far beyond just physical urges. Plan B may very well be the best way to protect yourself in this situation, but IF his actions are in fact diven by feelings of rejection and shame, then plan B (absolute rejection) and exposure (unimaginable shame) might greatly exacerbate his destructive actions. I would just try to make sure that you are prepared for his behavior to become much worse, possibly to the level of abuse when this were to occur, and hope that he has some sort of support structure in place to keep him from spinning out of control.

Good luck!

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Wow that's a whole new approach. It does seem to fit what he has told me before. He has always had extremely low self esteem and a HUMONGOUS desire to feel needed. This is where we are completely different. I am not a needy person at all...I can take care of myself and he can't manage to do anything unless I'm right there. There should be a happy medium in my opinion.

It's like not only do I have a sex aversion but I have a Husband aversion. I honestly don't want to feel this way but I do. I feel like he is not at all the person that I married and I'm sure he thinks the same thing about me. His temper really started surfacing after we were married. He really seems immature and childish in so many ways to me. He has never been physically abusive to me but emotionally abusive. I'm not sure which is the lesser of the 2 evils.

I don't know where I went wrong. The biggest change was on our honeymoon when I discovered that sex was extremely painful to me. We were both virgins and both had very high sex drives before the wedding. It really was a huge let down for both of us. During our first time I was crying while trying to let him have his fun and all he could say to me was "man, I wish you were feeling as good as I am right now". That has stuck with me for 13 years and I can't seem to get past that hurt.

I was eventually diagnosed with vaginismus. I always made sure he was taken care of sexually though. He never went more than a couple of days without it even though it was painful for me. I finally managed to get over that after I had a baby. I still have times when it is painful though.

So basically there are physical and emotional causes for my aversion. The problem that I can't seem to understand is while I go through Dr. Harley's process of overcoming my aversion, should I be engaging in any type of sexual conduct with my H? To me I feel like every time I have sex or am asked to flirt or anything of that nature, it seems that I'm starting back at the beginning of the process. But at the same time I completely understand that my H cannot go without anything for an indefinite period of time. What do i do?

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Originally Posted By: fade
I was about to respond being a bit more sympathetic to your H than others until I realized that he was also unfaithful.

Anyways what I was going to say is that I think that for many men, the desire for sex is in part just about a physical urge, but more powerfully it is about a desire to be desired or to feel sexually powerful. It really is a big part of how some men assess their self worth. Sometimes when a LD spouse is consenting to SF just to satiate their partner, not only is it damaging to the LD spouse who builds great resentment and eventually an aversion, but the HD spouse senses this and it makes the SF act feel empty and unfulfilling. In my opinion, while outright rejection of sex can be extremely hurtful to an HD spouse, feeling the failure of being unable to generate physical desire in your spouse, to feel wanted or needed even when you do have SF is even more damaging. As far as the emotional aspect of SF, pity or guilt sex is worse than no sex. Often the HD spouse feels completely trapped in this situation because they feel there is nothing they can do on their own to address this, and many feel like they cant bring up thier concerns with their spouse because it comes across as begging for sex, which when they want to feel desired, this has the complete opposite impact. My guess is that your H started down this path because he felt that you rejected him and not only were his ENs not met, but it was very hurtful to his self esteem. He tried to solve this without you which led to the very destructive independent behaviors he is currently engaged in. And the original problem is only compounded because his actions are increasing your aversion to him. No matter what he does it never feels sufficient, he is acting out to desperately try to fill this emotional void, and instead of trying to figure out why the "distractions" he is using are not satisfying him and in fact just making things worse, he is just ratcheting up his use and dependency on them.

You may consider reading the Sex Starved Marriage if you want to gain an understanding of his feelings in this. I think this may open your eyes to the level of pain and hurt that is driving some of you H's actions. This is not to obsolve him of any guilt, but it is good to understand that what is driving his behavior is far beyond just physical urges. Plan B may very well be the best way to protect yourself in this situation, but IF his actions are in fact diven by feelings of rejection and shame, then plan B (absolute rejection) and exposure (unimaginable shame) might greatly exacerbate his destructive actions. I would just try to make sure that you are prepared for his behavior to become much worse, possibly to the level of abuse when this were to occur, and hope that he has some sort of support structure in place to keep him from spinning out of control.

Good luck!


crazy A post chalked full of Psycho-Babble!

Fade, I don't believe you have a clue what you are talking about! You would serve MLG 8878 better if you hadn't posted at all!





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Any more opinions out there...I seem a bit confused at the moment?!

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Originally Posted By: fade
Plan B may very well be the best way to protect yourself in this situation, but IF his actions are in fact diven by feelings of rejection and shame, then plan B (absolute rejection) and exposure (unimaginable shame) might greatly exacerbate his destructive actions.



fade, with all due respect, this is all irrelevant to this poster. Plan B is to protect her from his abuse. He is SUPPOSED to feel rejected because SHE IS rejecting him as he is now. But in Plan B he will be given an opportunity to reconcile if he changes his behavior.

Quote:
I would just try to make sure that you are prepared for his behavior to become much worse, possibly to the level of abuse when this were to occur, and hope that he has some sort of support structure in place to keep him from spinning out of control.


She will not need to prepare for anything because she will not be in contact with him. If his behavior gets worse, she won't have to witness it. If he "spins" out of control she won't know about that because it is not her problem.

She does not need to understand his feelings, HE needs to understand that he won't have a marriage if he doesn't change his behavior. HE needs to understand her feelings, not the other way around.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: MLG8878
Any more opinions out there...I seem a bit confused at the moment?!


That is because a newcomer is giving you NON-Marriage Builders advice. I would listen to KaylaAndy, her husband and tst.

Last edited by MelodyLane; 06/02/10 06:06 PM.

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Originally Posted By: MLG8878
Any more opinions out there...I seem a bit confused at the moment?!


That is because a newcomer is giving you NON-Marriage Builders advice. I would listen to KaylaAndy, her husband and tst.


Note this paragraph from the top of the page:

"Sometimes you may hear alternative opinions that conflict with Dr. Harley's Ten Basic Concepts. These are often raised by those who have not solved their own marital problems, but still feel they are qualified to advise others. When this happens you can expect some members to explain why their approach won't work, and why Marriage Builders offers a better solution. There are many who are offended when that happens, but please keep in mind that the ultimate purpose of this Forum is to discuss and learn Marriage Builders concepts."


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Well I come here with a broken heart this morning. I thought we were on the right road. We delivered the letter to the OW breaking off all contact. We wrote another letter to the friend that was causing so much stress on our marriage (different post), we went to counseling for the first time yesterday.

He got upset with me about some things that I told the counselor. My H knows that I don't love him the way that I need/want to. I've told him that. The counselor asked each of us on a scale of 1-10 how much love we felt and how much love we had for one another. I said I felt like he loved me a 3 and I loved him a 4. He said he felt like I loved him a 7 and he loved me a 10!!!! In reality it's only a 1 that I love him but I couldn't say it. I'm glad I didn't because he gave me the silent treatment on the way home. When we got home I asked if there was a problem and he unloaded on me.

He said after he did things this week that he thought was impossible and my love for him should be higher than a 4. That's some high expectations in my opinion. I told him that it would take him writing this letter in order for me to ever start working on meeting his ENs and finding love for him again. I don't think he can expect this to be instant. He literally thinks that as soon as he does a good deed that my feelings should change. We argued over that a long time and never settled anything.

Anyway my heart is broken because 2 days ago I found out through some snooping that he is sexting yet another woman. By his texts that he wrote it sounded like they were trying to stop this but I'm not sure. I haven't said anything because I want to see what other evidence I can gather up first. What makes me sick is how he keeps telling me that he's doing everything in his power to meet my needs and he's been as honest as he knows how to be with me. I want to throw up in his face!!

I am moving towards Plan B but I need a little help. We have an 8 yo son together. He loves his dad with all of his heart and so does my H. How do I go about explaining why we have to leave?

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Hi mlg8878. Let me give you a link to the SA basic text called The SA Whitebook

You may find that insightful. Your H may find it soul saving.

The basic thing I think you should understand about all addictions, sex addiction included is that it is driven by a dysfunctional and destructive approach to getting valid core needs met. Harley defines sexual fulfillment as a basic emotional need. But the emotional needs healthy sexuality fills don't get met because of the dysfunctional nature of the way addiction distorts the use of the gift.

In fact sex addiction is like a soul parasite that stimulates insatiable hungers because the parasitic organism is the only one getting sustained from all the extra eating. The host eventually dies of malnutrition while gorging himself. Efforts to satisfy a lustful addict are doomed to leave you feeling used, drained, raging, filled with self doubt and otherwise wretched. You are one glass of water in a scorching desert wasteland.

Your full contributions will not change the climate of the desert.

This is not to say the situation is hopeless. It is just to say that the joy you both want isn't going to be achieved thru dysfunctional lust distorted efforts to satisfy a parasitic driven hunger.

Deal with the parasite, then the intimacy you share can be shared and received by you both and nourish you both. Lust is a tyrannical bedfellow.



kylyaandy uses the term 'aliveness' alot to distinguish lust from passion. I'll make another post about this separately..

The core valid need that gets distorted most by a dysfunctional approach to sex and what is at the core of all addictions is a need for connectedness to higher power to manage our lives. Without this connectedness to a source of faith that works we are trying compulsively to fill a void in our lives where 'good orderly direction' (God) should be. Nothing but 'God' can really manage our lives.

As I said lust is a tyrannical bedfellow. So are all addictions. They deny us the very needs they counterfeitingly promise to gratify and keep us trapped in the deception that they are our best friends and really helping an protecting us. It's a self deception we addicts can't really perceive in our debilitating isolation. It takes coming to recovery fellowships for some extended time, where we can begin to be shown what the heck is going on with ourselves...work 12 steps, do some personal inventory and discovery as well as lay down the agonies that have resulted from our patterns in safe places and spaces with others who have walked the path before us and have empathy for our plights. That empathy is key because neither censure nor pity really help us do what we need to do and reveal to us what we are doing wrong and how our efforts to meet our needs are dysfunctional. What we do find in fellowship with other addicts are mirrors into our own souls that show us as we see in others like us where we are missing the mark.

Think of a man in a lifeboat on the ocean trying to quench his thirst by drinking salty sea water. As the salt content of his body rises the life sustaining water is actually drawn out of his cells making him thirstier. Does this mean that all water is bad? No it means that the salt in the water is counteracting his ability to benefit from drinking it. What he needs is a salt water purifier so that he can actually benefit from the water without the salt. This is just the same with lust and sex. IN recovery we can begin to have the lust filtered from our souls and actually be blessed by our sexuality instead of cursed by it. Without that however our outlook is grim. We can't be sustained on salt water and we NEED water to live. As addiction accelerates and toxicity levels rise our behavior becomes more and more desperate and we are cursed more and more by our efforts to deal with the problem, the more we use the more toxic and desperate we become.

This is what makes holes in walls, breaks hearts, breaks bank accounts (emotional and financial) etc.

Without help it is too much for anyone. Recently it's become more widely understood as more and more people in addiction recovery programs for other things like alcohol and drugs have started to deal with the sexuality in their lives, it is often heard these people say things like, "recovering from heroin was a cinch compared to this sex addiction" or....
"having had over 20 years sober from alcohol I can see that I have to start working my recovery program all over from scratch now to deal with sex"

It is becoming very common to hear things like this in sex recovery meeting fellowships. Once it was speculated if sex addiction was even a valid addiction, now it's becoming widely known that it is one of the most pernicious and devastating forms of addiction of all things possible to be addicted to. All addictions are destructive, sex addiction is not a lightweight among them, it is often one of the last aspects of a person's life to get managed with (good orderly direction). perhaps there is more denial around the destructive nature of lust than anything else?

It's often darkest just before the dawn. Trust that the sunrise is not far away and don't forget to pray. smile Just because something is beyond your power to resolve alone doesn't mean you are a failure or it's incurable. It just means that you are going to have to get yourself out of the doctor's chair and let a higher power that can do what needs doing get the job done.

While this person you love suffers in delusion that their actions are normal and acceptable despite the fact that it is coming at the expense of your love bank; it behooves you to act according to a better sense of the reality of the situation and protect the love you have for them while not being deluded yourself. This will take a fair bit of higher power to show you just how to do this as well. That is what s-anon is for.

anyway, take what helps and leave the rest.

Last edited by sufficientgrace; 06/06/10 12:30 PM.

take what helps and leave the rest
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Originally Posted By: MLG8878
I am moving towards Plan B but I need a little help. We have an 8 yo son together. He loves his dad with all of his heart and so does my H. How do I go about explaining why we have to leave?


MLG, I would not leave with your son. I would ask your H to leave. Tell him you found evidence of his latest affair and that his adultery is too painful for you to endure. Ask him to leave.

Once he moves out, you can THEN deliver a Plan B letter to him and have all - ESSENTIAL - information go through a designated intermediary. Set up a visitation schedule with him and allow him to pick up your child on that schedule.

When you explain this to your son, tell him the truth. Tell him that his father is having affairs and that it is too painful for you to endure.

Sorry you are here, MLG. frown


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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I can tell from what you say about your communication with your H about 'love' that much more is unsaid than said and that what you are saying isn't very useful to either of you. It is as if you are discussing fruit (aka love) and you are talking about strawberries and peaches and he is talking about bananas and cantaloupe. You both are talking about fruit which you call love but you have no basis to understand what the other person mean. The meanings you are still assigning yourselves instead of asking specifically what the other person means when they say 'love'

as for the texting...sounds also like there is some love addiction also in play here not exclusively sex addiction. You may want to investigate co-slaa

How do you tell an 8 year old why you are separating?

"well honey we need to learn some things we can't learn together right now, it will help us become better people and that's what is best for us to do now and what will be for the best good for us"

thus far I've given you some input about 'him' and 'his side' of the street. Reality is that I don't have much info. about who YOU are in all this really and how you came to be where you are. If you are going to move forward eventually you will have to rattle your own side of the family tree and dig into what got you into relating with this man as you do and what keeps YOU engaged as you are with him.

If you ever want to give us 'the rest of the story' perhaps more could be suggested.


take what helps and leave the rest
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MLG, it will be important to be forthright and SPEAK PLAINLY to your child. Giving him false or incomplete explanations for the separation teaches him dishonesty and causes moral confusion.

It also leaves your child vulnerable to your husbands lies. Telling him the truth prepares him in case your H introduces him to his adultery partners, which he will do if you don't prevent it. [and you may not be able to prevent it]

Just say it straight: "son, your father and I are separating because he is having an adulterous affair with a woman named XYZ. [add details] This is your father's 4th affair [add appropriate details along with names] and the pain it causes me is unbearable. Adultery is immoral and cruel because married people are not supposed to have affairs."

Just say it straight, MLG. No weasel words or confusing, convulated explanations. Things are confusing enough as it is, so don't jack with his head with incomprehensible doublespeak.

Dr. Harley on telling the children:

Quote:
The same can be said about telling children about an affair. My experience with the positive outcomes of hundreds of families where an affair has been exposed to children has led me to encourage a betrayed spouse not to fear such exposure. In fact, to mislead children, giving other false explanations as to why their parents are not getting along, causes children to be very confused. When they finally discover the truth, it sets an example to children that dishonesty is sometimes acceptable, making them the judge of when that might occur.

An affair is an attack on children as well as the betrayed spouse. And it's true that children are deeply affected by this form of irresponsible behavior. But it's the act of infidelity that causes children to suffer, not the exposure of it. Facts point us toward solutions. Illusion leads us astray. That's true for children as well as adults.
here

Quote:
Q: So, you do suggest telling our 10 year old son? Is this more than he can handle? He never saw any real unhappiness as my husband and I had a very low conflict marriage. I have been protecting our son from this truth. He still has hope that his dad is going to come home.
___________________________________
A: As for your son, the truth will come out eventually, even if you get back together again. And your son won't be emotionally crippled if he hears the truth. It's lies and deception that cripple children. He should know that your husband is choosing his lover over his son's mother. It's a fact. He's willing to ruin a family unit all for what.

When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery.



Quote:
The reason that children should know about an affair is that exposing it to the light of day (letting everyone know), helps give the unfaithful spouse a dose of reality. An affair thrives on illusion, and whatever a betrayed spouse can do to eliminate the illusion is justifiable. Mold doesn't grow well in sunlight.
here

Quote:
2. How honest should I be about the A? (they are 7 and under)

Tell your children as much as you can about their father's affair, and how it affects you. There are some counselors and lawyers that strongly disagree with me on this issue, but I have maintained that position for over 35 years without any evidence that children are hurt by it. They're hurt by the affair, not by accurate information regarding the affair. Just make sure that you don't combine accurate information with disrespectful judgments. For example, you can say that the OW has taken their father away from you, but you should not say that she is home-wrecker (or worse).
here

Quote:
My basic approach to life is that radical honesty is valuable on many different dimensions. It keeps us out of trouble, it helps others understand us, and it helps others avoid the same mistakes we have made. Letting your children know the details of your husband's affair would help them in all three areas.

The more your children know about your husband's affair, the more careful he will be to avoid them in the future.

The more your children know about his affair, the more they will understand what you are going through in your recovery (by the way, you are doing very well -- keep up the good work!).

Being radically honest about your husband's affair with your children would also help them avoid affairs themselves. How it happened and how could it have been prevented is a great object lesson for children. I learned that I was vulnerable for an affair when I learned about my grandfather's affairs. The extraordinary precautions I've taken were directly related to what I learned about him.

It's the approach I've always taken, and while it's difficult, especially for the WS, there's much more upside to it than downside.
here



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Jun 2001
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About love addiction I find page 15 makes some good distinctions.


take what helps and leave the rest
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

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