Hi ss,

First I'd like to apologize for not replying sooner. You have taken time to try to support me and I'm sorry for not coming back to talk to you until now. Sometimes I take away things you suggest, or even if they are not necessarily suggestions, just things that you mention, and I ponder them. I have been quite stressed this last month, but I am keeping my head above water, I think.

I have made an appointment to see the priest at our church who is in charge of Confirmation - he's the assistant pastor, and he has been at our church for 2 years - he used to be a bank manager, apparently, and he seems to be intelligent and kind. My son likes him and has gained a respect for him. I suppose I feel anxious about talking to new people about my problems with H, because I am anxious about making the situation any worse, as I feel that my other attempts to get counseling didn't work out for the better. But my focus is on my son now and I want him to be able to get the support that he needs. I spoke to my son about it, asked him how he would feel if I went to the priest and told him about what was happening with me and H - my counselor suggested I take this approach so that my son would not feel I had gone behind his back. My son said "you mean, so I won't have to feel embarassed?" Which told me that he WOULD like to be able to talk to the priest, but he would find it embarassing to have to explain that his parents are having problems, as teenagers are very embarassed about things in their lives that are not "perfect", and are also very loyal to their parents. They don't want to betray their secrets to people outside the family. He needs me to pave the way for him. I said "yeah", and he said "That's fine with me, it doesn't bother me at all!"

I told my H that I felt I wanted to go talk to the priest, as I feel our problems are affecting OS, and that OS may have questions, spiritual questions, that have to do with us, that he may feel he needs to ask about, and he should be able to talk to the priest about anything, since he is going through Confirmation. Every time I want to talk to my H, I have to choose a time when he is alone, which means going into his "music room" - really, it's his office and den, he hides out in there working away - he is often on his laptop, working on music, standing with the laptop on top of one of his instruments. This means when I enter the room he has his back to me - and usually, that is the way it stays - I try to talk to him while he is on his laptop, with his back to me. He doesn't turn around, but he listens. So that's the set up. So I say that I want to go talk to the priest, etc. He says that he doesn't think that's a good idea. I say why? He says I should just stay out of it, not muddy the waters for OS. I say what do you mean? He says he doesn't think OS Confirmation has anything to do with our marital problems. I say, "but what is Confirmation, but the inviting of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, to enter our life - that is what this sacrament is about - I don't feel I can stand in that church before the altar and pretend that we are a couple who are a living witness to the love of God and the Spirit of Truth and that we will be able to guide him in the Spirit when our marriage is so broken". He started to get upset then and said I didn't have to stand up there, it was the godparents who would stand with OS and that had nothing to do with us. I said didn't he think that the state of our marriage had any impact on OS? He answered that he didn't think our marriage problems were relevant to OS Confirmation. Remembering Orchid and "reverse babble", I said "OK, I'll tell the priest that you don't think it's relevant," and I went to leave the room. He exploded then and shouted "Now you're being disingenuous!!"....what does that mean anyway? That implies that I entered into the conversation in order to trap him, which I didn't. I approached him in good faith, as I always do, and I try to deal with what comes out of him. So that's how it was left with him. I just skedaddled and I haven't said anything more about it to him, and it's taken me two weeks to make the appointment with the priest. When he fights back, it makes me retreat for a time, then I try to come back to pushing forward. So here I am.

I have also made a call to his homeroom teacher - this is the teacher that he will have for the whole of his secondary school career - he's been with him now for two years, and has three years to go. My son likes and respects him. I just got off the phone with him, and I feel better for it. I said that my H and I were having marital problems, and that I felt that it was affecting OS - that some of the guardedness and surliness in his behaviour is down to the anger he feels towards his Dad and the tension that exists at home. He said that he had noticed that OS seemed a bit down the last couple of weeks when he is usually quite happy and cheerful - I said that we had been having problems for a long time, several years, and that I felt that it had been a factor with OS during that time, but I hadn't wanted to talk to anyone about it, because it was difficult to talk about and because I was trying to get help for us, but that all of our attempts at counseling over the years have failed and I felt that there was really no solution. He said he understood how difficult it could be and that now that I had spoken to him, he would be able to try to offer OS support where he needed it. He asked me if I wanted him to make an announcement in the staff room that there were problems at home with Daniel, so that other staff could just be aware and be more sensitive when they are dealing with him, and I said yes. He also said he would speak to his head of year, another teacher that Daniel knows well and respects (he's a big sportsman - man's man, you know) and make him aware of what I had told him. I felt that the conversation went well...I have been impressed with how humane and supportive the staff have always been there - he said that it was nearly the end of year now, (they break up next week), so the pressure was off him in terms of work, and next week is all fun stuff - trips out and activities, charity walk, etc. I said that I expected this situation to be ongoing - that OS would need support next year, and the year after.....

I have a feeling now of having done the right thing. My counselor and you both said that if you feel your problems are affecting your children, then the people who are in a position of caring for them (their teachers, etc.) should know. I feel better for having done that now....I was starting to see that OS needs support and I am trying to pave the way for him getting the support he needs outside....

I haven't done this for YS, but I am thinking about it, too.

-----

Now I'll try to go back to H - you have picked up on him being helpful. H's "helpfulness". There's a book called "The Five Love Languages : how to express heartfelt commitment to your mate" - by Gary Chapman, and basically the author says that we all have one, maybe two, primary "love languages" that we "speak" - these are "Words of Affirmation", "Quality Time", "Receiving Gifts", "Acts of Service", and "Physical Touch". Our problems as couples arise when we speak different love languages - when that happens, we don't see that the other person is showing his love, and we feel unloved - the other person also doesn't see when we are saying I love you and also feels unloved. Well, as far as I can tell, if my H has a "love language", it would be "Acts of Service" - this is his "helpfulness"....he never gives me compliments on my appearance, or what I do, except to praise my cooking and to thank me for it, or to thank me for other things that I do. He never gives me Quality Time. He only gives me gifts on my birthday and at Christmas - never anything spontaneous, and he asks me for a list so he can get me something that is on my list. He never touches me. What he does do is "Acts of Service" - helping. Sometimes he is very helpful. But it has to come from him. He will usually do something I ask him to do if I ask him in the right way - "Would you please go to the store and buy me some dishwashing liquid?" "Would you mind picking up YS from school today?" that kind of thing. He can be very co-operative. It was in fact, his helpfulness that confused me and convinced me that he really cared about me, when we were "dating" - even though he appeared to blow hot and cold towards me, he would always eventually show up at my door trying to be helpful. He would find something that he could be helpful with.

My question to myself is this : is this a "love language", or is this just a dynamic that he uses to try to keep people close to him, to try to engage with and exercise control in their lives, or something that he uses to square himself with himself, i.e. I fixed the back fence, so I can feel good about myself now, whatever she might say.....in other words, is he "buying" the right to feel good about himself by being helpful, even though he steadfastly refuses to engage in any other activity that would mean "engagement" in a relationship, like

1. Talking about our relationship, talking about our feelings, talking about us, talking about the future, talking about anything....
2. Taking steps towards couples counselling...
3. Trying to prove his trustworthiness by.....
4. Making any effort to seek an answer to the problems we have....

NO. He doesn't do anything. He just seems to want to go on the way we are indefinitely. Living together like we are two separate people who just happen to have two kids. It's like our marriage never existed for him. He doesn't look back.

He could very well be in an affair and I wouldn't know it, because he helped even when he WAS in an affair. I think it is something he does that makes him feel good about himself. When he is helpful, I do thank him, I try to show my appreciation for him, and I do give him credit. The big problem is that my "love languages" are completely different. I'd say my primary love language is Physical Touch. If I don't get a hug, or if I am not touched in an affectionate way, I feel decidedly unloved. I can't help it. I NEED affection like a plant needs water. I don't think that's abnormal. I don't need excess amounts of affection, but I do need affection. I also need Quality Time. I don't get any of that and never have. H's response years ago when I tried to discuss this with him was "I see you enough at home, why would I want to go out with you?" which left me frankly, dumbfounded. You don't realize your spouse is even thinking along these lines until you try painfully to broach these subjects and you find out that he's thinking like an alien!! I don't care much about gifts and I appreciate Acts of Service, I also appreciate Words of Affirmation, but Physical Touch and Quality Time are the way I seem to be programmed. I have tried to find out what H's love languages are, and I think they are Words of Affirmation and Acts of Service....now if we were working together to make our marriage work, I think we could work something out, but H will not work in that way and has never shown any inclination to even try....all he wants to do is do his music...and it seems to me that making an effort towards meeting any of my needs is too much for him....he has had these affairs, and having affairs means you never have to work at a relationship...

You mentioned SF as a need for men and that until his need for SF is met, it will be difficult for him to be thinking about meeting my other needs. FIL said that he thinks we need to start sleeping together again. Well, I tried to open this with my H in an indirect way. He was upstairs in the loft bedroom where I sleep, checking out the roof tiles and he knocked against the bed, which is propped up on a paint can on one side, and the end of the bed often comes out of the posts and has to be knocked back in again. Been that way for years. Need a new bed, yup. He swore at it. I noticed that, so later I said, "If you ever wanted to consider sleeping together again, we would have to get a new bed." I think this surprised him. He looked uncomfortable and didn't say anything. He went out of the room, then he popped back in again and said "I think you should replace the bed in any case." That's all, and he has said nothing since.

Last of all, 4 June was our 20th wedding anniversary. Last year he gave me a card, and I gave him a card. I have tried over this year, to open dialogue between us, to make space for him to reconcile with me. This year, there was nothing from him. No acknowledgement at all, and it was deliberate. I left him a card in the morning, not a soupy one, but I was determined to mark the day, and let him know, so I left him one saying Dear H, Happy Anniversary, Yours, (me). We both worked that day, as normal. I made dinner, and he never mentioned it to me. Finally, after the kids were in bed, I said "Did you get my card?" and he said "Oh...yes I did. Thank you very much." So polite. That was it. I just felt, well, you know that's 20 years of my life gone. And yes, I do feel very upset by it. I've been thinking 20 years is enough. 20 years is enough to give away to someone like this.

What I have been coming around to, and I know it is taking me a long time, is to say that he doesn't meet my needs, and he doesn't seem to even think that meeting my needs was part of the deal with marriage, and he doesn't seem to want to learn that meeting my needs needs to be part of the deal for the marriage to work....his attitude is basically, if it makes me happy, it's good, and if it makes you happy at the same time that it makes me happy, that's good, too, but if what makes me happy doesn't make you happy, then that's too bad.

I have to say that I am not happy, I have done the best I can, and I can't do any more. I have been talking it through with my counselor. There are two separate depressions. The reactive depression that I feel from being trapped in this R with my H. And the depression, shyness, insecurity and lack of confidence that I would feel which is a result of my family background, which I would still have to deal with, even if I were not living with H. If my H and I separated, and the boys lived with me, I would still be dealing with the depression which comes from my family background. I haven't gone into any of that here, but that has also been a factor this month - the rift between my sister and my Dad. Thankfully, my Dad is now calling me again, and we have been able to talk.

I've also seen the doctor again, and they want to take a good look at my insides, so they are putting me in for more scans, a laparoscopy and a hysteroscopy. I don't care anymore what they do to me, just check it out and deal with it if they find anything, otherwise I am happy taking these pain tablets.

I'm plodding on with my studies, but it has been slow this month. I am looking forward to the summer when I can have long hours to commit to studying. Work is going very well. I love my job.

I think that if I could cope financially, I would separate from H. But when I look at the real nitty-gritty of it, it just doesn't seem possible. We have a low income, even with both of us working. With the mortgage situation what it is now, neither H or I would be able to get a mortgage we could afford. We are making it financially now only by staying together, since we do not have a mortgage, and our incomes go to our living expenses, pensions and some savings. Thankfully, we have no consumer debt. It is a shame we have these problems because otherwise we would be doing well as a family. I have to look at everything before I make any big decisions. When I think about separating from him, my old age also stares me in the face like a ghoul....what will happen to me when I am old?

I take comfort in my garden. I am working hard with the vegetables, although we have had tons of rain the last month....so there are tons of weeds! But I finally have a lot of my own salad, and broad beans...I've got carrots and onions, and loads of potatoes, and I'm putting in zucchini now to go through the summer....leeks and broccoli have to go in soon, and then just lots of digging to prepare the ground for next year.....

I hope you are well. And that all your family are well. Thanks again for listening. I'll get there in the end.

LIR

Hi LIR !!

I don't have time to say much, but I will say a little bit.

1. This life was meant to be difficult. It's by design.
We learn patience, love, and we become...... bit by bit, the person that God wants us to become.

2. You are doing well.

I wish we had time to talk. Maybe you should come by for dinner tonight. I'll ask W, but I'm sure she'll say yes.

About 6:00, and you don't need to bring anything.

Really, you are doing well. I don't know if it's hard for you to see, but it is plain to me.

You are learning the things you need to learn. It's slow, but you are becoming the person you are supposed to become. At least, I believe you are.

Thank you for the update. It says a lot. I try to read between the lines. Sometimes I wonder if my assessment is accurate.

You sound brave, and you sound reasonably well...... considering.
I know there is always a gap between reasonably well, and well.

I need to go for now, but I'll list numbers 3 and 4 first.

3. People care.

4. God will help.


SS - who is wishing for more time.

Thanks so much, ss.

You do seem to say the right things. Because, you know, I REALLY REALLY want life to be easy!! LOL. It's true! So it is good to remember this - it's supposed to be difficult -

Thanks for the dinner invitation. I'll be right over!-)

Tonight OS played a solo violin piece in the school concert - he was second to last on the program - I delivered him to the school and then went to pick up his violin teacher. We are having problems with our 2nd car, so my H rode his bicycle up to the school to get there and got there in time to hear OS. OS did really well - did his teacher proud - really good. When I was driving back with OS alone, he talked to me and said it is his Head of Department he is really trying to do well for - he has performed twice on the piano this year and made mistakes that he was really unhappy with himself for - but this time, he did really well and he was pleased with himself because he wants to live up to his teacher's expectations - he said that when he is angry with himself for performing badly, it is because he doesn't want to let his teacher down - he thinks his teacher is entitled to expect a lot out of him. I was impressed with this because it's the first time he has articulated the respect he has for his Head of Department, and that he wants to live up to his teacher's expectations. I have these times with my son, as I drive him to his lesson every week, and he chats to me in the car. I am hoping that the way that we talk together and the fact that he expresses himself to me, his thoughts and feelings, will lay the foundation for him to be able to talk easily with his wife someday. I also hug him and he gives me lots of hugs and reassurance - my counselor told me that he is mirroring back to me the way that I have treated him and she said that I deserved to give myself credit for raising him to be able to give comfort when comfort is needed.

I've got to go now - need to sleep, but I wanted to share with you some good stuff, for a change.

Thank you for caring. And I have to trust that God will help.

Need more time, too!
Bye for now.
LIR

I try to be an optimist. I have always wished that your H would come back to the marriage. Always looking for some sign of hope.

I do not know what will happen. I fear for your H. There IS good in him. I know there is. However, unless he turns his heart to God, and accepts the sacrifice of his Savior, he will never have peace, and will never be happy. The psalmist says "all is vanity". Others call the vain things we seek after "dross."

Dross - waste or foreign matter : impurity.
Something that is base, trivial, or inferior.

There is no happiness in seeking after dross, yet, he appears to be casting off the things of real worth.

Years ago I was trying to be an optimist when writing to another person on MB. Another poster came by and said in essence -
The evidence is that your WS is not coming back. It's been quite a while, and there is no evidence of change of any kind. They still act like a WS, they still do the things a WS does, and they are not committed to the Marriage.

I hate posting things like this, but if I am a true friend, I have to do it from time to time. The question remains - what will you do? I understand your decisions, and I am not suggesting you do things differently. It's always good to confirm your choices with God.

Usually, I give more background for my thoughts. Would that I could tonight, and perhaps soften this text somewhat.

I want to comment on more of your post, but I type, and erase, and type, and erase. The words won't seem to come.

There are many things I don't know. I don't know if your H will ever change, and love you, and meet your needs.

I do know that God knows what you ought to do. I do know that he lives, and that he loves you. I know that if you stay close to God, and continue to petition him for help, you will get the help you seek.

It is so easy to misunderstand or be hurt by what one reads here. Look to God for understanding. Read with a prayer on your lips for help. Pray to know how to proceed from day to day.

It humbles me to read your posts. I know you love your boys. I know you try to do what is best, and that if you knew exactly what God wanted from day to day, you would do it with exactness.

With faith like this, you will get help.

Sometimes, in our struggles, we wonder, and we doubt. We go from day to day, wondering how things will turn out. Life can be lonely, and difficult. We try to keep busy, so as not to think about things.

I think it is human nature to want a rest.
The scriptures talk about the course we should follow -

Heb. 12: 1
1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us.


It's hard to run when we get tired. It's hard to have patience when we can't even see the finish line, let alone know if we have the strength to continue to run.

Believe that God will keep his promises to YOU, for he surely will.

From Isaiah 52

6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.
7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!
8 Thy watchmen shall lift up the voice; with the voice together shall they sing: for they shall see eye to eye, when the Lord shall bring again Zion.
9 Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem: for the Lord hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem.
10 The Lord hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.


He has power to redeem his people. He always has, and he does now, and he always will.

I nearly always go really long, but I'll close tonight with this.

God bless you, and your family.

SS

We have been on vacation, then home for a few days, then out of town for a wedding. I really wanted to comment on some of the things you said, but I didn't have time to write more before we left.

Hope all of you are well.
Well, and happy.

SS

Thank you ss,

I'm sorry I have been away so long. I worked hard the last two weeks of term, had my last day of work first week of July, so I've been off work now almost a month....thinking I would get a lot done this summer, but my appointment for day surgery - a laparoscopy and hysteroscopy came through really fast, and I had that procedure last week...the good news is that everything is completely normal, they found nothing wrong with me, which I am very relieved about, so I guess the pain I am experiencing is to do with a damaged nerve somewhere on my left side...the pain tablets I am taking really help, so I am a lot less worried about it now....anyway, the surgery set me back a bit.....

Home now with the boys every day, in one way it feels much better, not to be stressed by having to go out to my job every day....I definitely needed to rest....

H has been very good....getting me to the hospital and picking me up...and it is true that he has been very helpful, much more the way he used to be....

However, he is still difficult....he hasn't really changed at all in some respects.....can still be explosive and still reacts badly when I ask about his whereabouts....

I have kind of come to the conclusion that he is not ever going to change and it is up to me to decide whether and/or when to leave....

Perhaps he loves me as much as he can...but his problems, whatever they are, intrude into the way he feels and the way he handles things.....there is a dynamic at work that we (everyone who cares about him) don't seem to be able to have any impact on shifting towards a more positive way of relating and behaving...he is like a self-indugent child with his emotions, his desires, and his behaviour....he is bright and happy and holds court, jollying everyone into a good mood, but it doesn't last...as soon as he feels stressed by something he feels he has to do, he becomes someone else....someone determined to put his foot down and rule....it's like being kissed one minute and slapped the next (figuratively).....OS says it's as if he has an alter ego (OS detects the same personality change that I do)...OS is a lot more challenging to him than I am now....he stands up to him, and I know that someday he is going to be able to get away...my counselor has pointed out to me where my sons have really healthy behaviour-of caring and compassion, which they have got from me...so I need to give myself credit there and realize that my boys are growing into good, healthy people....

I just don't think he's ever going to change...because he refuses to even consider that he could, should or might be able to change....to even consider the thought is a cause for resentment for him....if you resist any of his negativity, he puts you down...

I went to talk to the priest before OS Confirmation...he just listened without saying anything to me at all....he asked a few questions but really had nothing to say...he said if I want to come back to talk to him, or if OS wants to talk to him, he would be happy to listen....but to be honest, he didn't have anything to say to me...it was kind of weird I thought...he said that I would just have to decide how long I wanted to live with it, it was up to me...but he didn't think it would help for him to try to talk to my H....so I left it....it is getting harder for me to talk about it. I think I find it most helpful to stick to talking to my counselor.

When I think about leaving H, I realize that he does have good in him, and that if I left him, I would have to leave that good in him in order to get away from the bad....

It's good to be reminded that I should pray and wait for God's confirmation....I haven't had that yet, so I am still here...

I will be away for about three weeks from now--we are going to see my FIL....I'm looking forward to it....my goal is to finish one of my modules this summer and at FIL's I will be able to study....the boys enjoy themselves there, too....I'll let you know how things went when I get back...

I hope all is well with you, and I thank you for looking out for me.....I know things will change for the better at some point....right now, my focus is on the boys, who are doing well so far....

God bless...
LIR

Hi LIR,
I really hope your summer is going well. Our twins are back in school now, and they are not sure if they like it. I think they like the free and easy summer life. We did a hike in the mountains last week, and I thought of your boys, and what they are doing, and how they are feeling. And of course, I wondered how you were also.

I'm sorry I have been away so long.

I have been worse. I think I sign up for too many things, and it's hard to get them all worked in. It's sometimes difficult to keep the family at the top of the list, but we try to do that.

..... but my appointment for day surgery - a laparoscopy and hysteroscopy came through really fast, and I had that procedure last week...the good news is that everything is completely normal, they found nothing wrong with me, which I am very relieved about, so I guess the pain I am experiencing is to do with a damaged nerve somewhere on my left side...


And how has it been since you last wrote? Are you gaining on it, or is it gaining on you?


Home now with the boys every day, in one way it feels much better, not to be stressed by having to go out to my job every day....I definitely needed to rest....

This made me think quite a bit. Stress takes a huge toll on us. You have had a very stressful life for quite a few years now. I keep wondering if the pain you have been feeling is a by-product of stress. I worry. Doctors are good, but they can't know everything. W and I pray for you often.


H has been very good....getting me to the hospital and picking me up...and it is true that he has been very helpful, much more the way he used to be....

This part is good. I was very glad to read it. I hope it continues.

However, he is still difficult....he hasn't really changed at all in some respects.....can still be explosive and still reacts badly when I ask about his whereabouts....

I have kind of come to the conclusion that he is not ever going to change and it is up to me to decide whether and/or when to leave....


As long as you are there, this choice will be there also. He (we) can change if we want to change. I keep wishing for you, and for him. Life can be good, even in turmoil when a couple is working together, and is in love. Love really is magical.
He cannot be made to see though. And your choices will be there, waiting for you every morning when you wake.

You live under a heavy burden, but God makes these lighter, and there are others (your father for one) who carry more. I will always attempt to help you identify your choices, but won't try to make them for you. You are a mother, that is your guiding light. It is a good thing. Just know that people understand and care.

Perhaps he loves me as much as he can...but his problems, whatever they are, intrude into the way he feels and the way he handles things.....there is a dynamic at work that we (everyone who cares about him) don't seem to be able to have any impact on shifting towards a more positive way of relating and behaving...he is like a self-indugent child with his emotions, his desires, and his behaviour....he is bright and happy and holds court, jollying everyone into a good mood, but it doesn't last...as soon as he feels stressed by something he feels he has to do, he becomes someone else....

Plan B was formulated to shake people like him up, and let them see what life will be like if they continue as they are. It is a gamble though. He would have choices also.
I worry about you staying with him, and I worry about you leaving, and you know all the reasons for both worries. You know much more than I know.
We are all children of God. We have the seeds of greatness within us. You already know the gardening analogy. We can encourage growth of these seeds, or we can kill them. Neglect is a great killer of seeds, it doesn't take malice and forethought.

someone determined to put his foot down and rule....it's like being kissed one minute and slapped the next (figuratively).....

I think I have said before, my W lived with this same thing for years, and she wanted to leave. God would never let her, and she did ask. Oh how I have hoped, and prayed that he would respond and begin the process of change. It is impossible to love (romantic love) someone who treats you this way.


OS says it's as if he has an alter ego (OS detects the same personality change that I do)...OS is a lot more challenging to him than I am now....he stands up to him, and I know that someday he is going to be able to get away...my counselor has pointed out to me where my sons have really healthy behaviour-of caring and compassion, which they have got from me...so I need to give myself credit there and realize that my boys are growing into good, healthy people....

It could get them into a physical conflict with him. I hope not, but it could. Not because of them, but him. I am sure he does not like people standing up to him. On the whole, I think this is good though. If you teach your sons how to deal with the anger that comes to us, I believe they will be fine. I am really glad they have you for their mother.

I just don't think he's ever going to change...because he refuses to even consider that he could, should or might be able to change....to even consider the thought is a cause for resentment for him....if you resist any of his negativity, he puts you down...

He is not the problem, it's everyone else. Didn't you know that?
I don't mean to make light of him. Sorry. It's just that you can use some humor. It won't hurt you at all to laugh.


I went to talk to the priest before OS Confirmation...he just listened without saying anything to me at all....he asked a few questions but really had nothing to say...he said if I want to come back to talk to him, or if OS wants to talk to him, he would be happy to listen....but to be honest, he didn't have anything to say to me...it was kind of weird I thought...he said that I would just have to decide how long I wanted to live with it, it was up to me...but he didn't think it would help for him to try to talk to my H....so I left it....it is getting harder for me to talk about it.

I believe the Priest believes what you believe. He probably will not change. And he spoke of those choices again......

I think I find it most helpful to stick to talking to my counselor.

I am still thinking about these last few statements. I find them interesting. The conversation with the priest was to see if you could get help for your H. Your conversations with your counselor are meant to help you.
True?
If yes, does this give you any information of value?

When I think about leaving H, I realize that he does have good in him, and that if I left him, I would have to leave that good in him in order to get away from the bad....

It's good to be reminded that I should pray and wait for God's confirmation....I haven't had that yet, so I am still here...

I strongly agree with you here. God has all the facts, and we........ only a few of them. I believe that as you stay close to God, you will know what to do.


I will be away for about three weeks from now--we are going to see my FIL....I'm looking forward to it....my goal is to finish one of my modules this summer and at FIL's I will be able to study....the boys enjoy themselves there, too....I'll let you know how things went when I get back...


Ok, I would love to hear how you are.

We have had -
Our vacation to Yellowstone National Park - Early July 10 days.
Family reunion - late July
Girls camp - Late July, early August. (W and I both got to go with the twins, so it was a family trip for us.)
Major trade show - Early August
Minor Trade show - Mid August
Wedding for Youngest son - mid August. (only the twins are living at home now.) Three day hike in the mountains - Last week.

Garden is suffering from the heat, but not dead yet. I should do another photo. We are getting grapes, and just finished the peaches. Vegetables are ongoing.

I hope all is well with you, and I thank you for looking out for me.....I know things will change for the better at some point....right now, my focus is on the boys, who are doing well so far....

Well, you really should focus on the boys, but also on your own needs. School, but also rest. Something at the end of each day to relax you. I usually read these days, or hoe weeds in the garden....... 15 minutes to a half hour. My health has improved.

Things you could try -
walking
skydiving
snorkeling
surfing
reading
photography
talking to a friend
gardening
television (we don't have cable, and the things that are on stress me even more. However, some people like it.)
What I like the most are old Andy Griffith re-runs. (on DVD) Those are really relaxing.

Video games - it works for some people. Remember pong?
Sewing
Crocheting
making home made ice cream.
Baking Bread

Well, I hope you got some laughs out of this. Some are valid though. I hope you take time for you.

God bless you also. Always and forever.

SS

It's getting on to fall. The twins are back in school. The cycle of life continues.

I hope you and your family are well.


SS

Bless you ss, and your wife....thank you for keeping me in your prayers.

I'm still here. I laughed and smiled a lot at your last post and you made some very good points, which I will return to....

First I apologize for not posting for so long. You took time and I didn't reply. I hope you don't feel that I took you for granted.

I was gone most of August, and then straight back into work in the first week of September - my first week back, I also had commitments every night of that week.

What happens to me is that I get over-tired. My meds kick in at around 10pm and start making me groggy. By that time I have been awake since 6am. So I have been trying to work out strategies to make more time for myself - one of which is to have dinner earlier so that I (and the boys) have more time in the evening to study, do homework, etc. I got a lot of studying done when I was on holiday, but I haven't picked up a book in 6 weeks, and I'm starting to panic - realizing I have to make changes to how I manage time during each day. I also have to go back to working 5 days a week. I am thinking this will not be so bad because I will have two half days off, and I can also be flexible with my hours and take time to stay on in the library where I work, and work on my own - it seems to be almost impossible for me to get any studying done at home - I am always doing housework (laundry, cooking or cleaning up) or supervising the boys' homework....so my strategy is to have some days where I do something easy like pizza or ready-made lasagna (instead of making it myself) - and on those days, I will be able to work in some study in the evenings before my meds kick in and send me to sleep whether I like it or not!-)

I'm not complaining about the meds, though, because they are handling the pain. I also think that what I am going to do is go get some back therapy - could be that the stress is making all my muscles tighten up somewhere....they have also said that it could have been caused in childbirth - I think that's plausible - it's a kind of funny thing to say, but childbirth is such an intense and painful experience (at least it was for me)that you remember all the little details that are hard to explain. There are things about both the births that I remember, for instance that my 2nd son weighed really heavily on my left side - maybe he put pressure on all the nerves on that side of my body - my left side has certainly been "out of whack" in some way ever since. Most of my physical aches and pains happen on the left side of my body. I know it sounds weird but there you are. Or could it be....that I am just getting old?!! LOL! That too!-)

I have also now been with my counselor for a year. I really thank you for that. It was being able to talk to you again that helped me muster up the strength I needed to call the counselors and get an appointment. I was so depressed this time last year. I think in general I feel better.

What does make me sad is my R with H. It is no better and no worse. It is just the same. Even though we had a good summer - good holidays, good time with my FIL, H is still the same. I have tried to reach him again and again, but nothing I do or say brings him out into the open. He is hiding in his cave and it seems like he is determined to stay there. I pray for him.

I would love to go on talking, but it is now 10 minutes to 10 here and I have to get my boys into bed. I just wanted you to know that I read your post and I appreciate your comments and the time you took. When I can I will be back to reply.

My garden did well this year, too! Lots of red potatos and white potatoes - some really weird looking carrots - short and stumpy with numerous legs! Good broad beans and red chard - love that! Now it is all being dug over....I've done a lot and have lots to do!

Oh, and also, H has seen a house he wants to buy (for all of us) and he is doing loads of work on our house to make it presentable to sell....we shall see...in this current economic crisis, selling our house may not be the best idea just now....I've seen the house and I like it, but I am afraid of taking out a mortgage right now...our house is not ready to sell yet, so we still have some time to consider the options.....whew!

I really must go now, but God bless you and your family, ss - you are doing good in the world.

LIR

I'm still here.

Admittedly, I still worry sometimes.
We held a funeral yesterday, and it always gets me to thinking. This was a good one, if funerals can be considered good. He was elderly, had lived a good life. He left with no regrets that I know of. I visited him a week previous to his passing. He was surrounded by his family, including his wife, who was still his major care giver. There were many who attended the service, and we had to set up extra chairs to accommodate them all.

He was given military honors, as he had served in WWII. Some (Of the speakers) touched on his years in law enforcement, and his devoted service to the community. However, it was agreed by those who spoke, that he was mostly remembered for being a good father, and a wonderful husband.

It's easy to examine one's own life during events such as this. It prompts one to think of others also. I thought about your H, and wondered what he will be remembered for. I wondered what he wants to be remembered for.

I hope that others see me as being good at what I do, but far more, I want my children to have happy memories, and my W to have no regrets from her decision to marry me. Jesus said, "I came to do the will of my father." If I can (mostly) do what he did, I am sure the other things will be as they should be.

Perhaps..........
Watch the media for the passing of a famous person, and use the occasion to ask your H these kinds of questions. If he wonders where you are coming from, you can refer to the passing of (who ever it is/was) and say it got you to thinking. I would suppose that as long as you are still living with him, you may as well continue to try to get him to think about what he is doing. It may require some preparation on your part. He could very well ask what you would think of him, if he passed now. Or....... what you believe your children would think of him. It would be great if he was to ask his sons what they would think. I think it would shock him, and I believe he would also do some thinking.

I hope his value system is such that it would mean something to him.



I laughed and smiled a lot at your last post and you made some very good points, which I will return to....

I thought of some more things for you to consider.
Hang gliding
Para sailing
Mattress testing
Motor cycle racing
Football coach (do your boys play?)
Marriage Counseling - I can print you a certificate, and mail it to you.



First I apologize for not posting for so long. You took time and I didn't reply. I hope you don't feel that I took you for granted.

I believe you need to spend your time doing what is most important. Sometimes that might be coming here, but I suspect you have lots more to do at home than you can ever get done, and it always needs attention. (SS laughs)
You seem to have your priorities in the right order, and that is as it should be.



I was gone most of August, and then straight back into work in the first week of September - my first week back, I also had commitments every night of that week.

I would love to hear more about August, and how it went. Mixed feelings about asking. (as per above) If you have commitments every night, your boys must be busy. But then, I suppose it could be other things. Many of my evening commitments are not family ones.

What happens to me is that I get over-tired. My meds kick in at around 10pm and start making me groggy. By that time I have been awake since 6am. So I have been trying to work out strategies to make more time for myself - one of which is to have dinner earlier so that I (and the boys) have more time in the evening to study, do homework, etc.

I think part of this (for me) is age. I turned 53 a few weeks ago. I can't go like I used to. 20 years ago, I could work until midnight, read until 2:00 am, and be at work again at 8:00 am. I need more sleep now. Some say they need less, but I am not one of them. I am sorry you get so tired, and often wish the world was a little slower paced.

I got a lot of studying done when I was on holiday, but I haven't picked up a book in 6 weeks, and I'm starting to panic - realizing I have to make changes to how I manage time during each day. I also have to go back to working 5 days a week.


So the 4 day work week did not pan out? I can think of questions....... (ss smiles some more.)

I am thinking this will not be so bad because I will have two half days off, and I can also be flexible with my hours and take time to stay on in the library where I work, and work on my own - it seems to be almost impossible for me to get any studying done at home - I am always doing housework (laundry, cooking or cleaning up) or supervising the boys' homework....


There are some lines attributed to Victor Hugo which read:

She broke the bread into two fragments and gave them to her children, who ate with eagerness. "She hath kept none for herself," grumbled the sergeant.

"Because she is not hungry?" said a soldier.

"No," said the sergeant, "because she is a mother."


I understand your frustration, but this is a credit to you. You are a mother, and that's what mothers do. Mothers care for children. I know you will do as much (in addition) as you can, but when all is said and done, you are a mother.


........so my strategy is to have some days where I do something easy like pizza or ready-made lasagna (instead of making it myself) - and on those days, I will be able to work in some study in the evenings before my meds kick in and send me to sleep whether I like it or not!-)


Do you have room to make things in advance, and then freeze them? We do that a lot, but sometimes I forget we have an extra freezer. Not everyone does.
Some of the things my W makes up in big batches -

Stuffed peppers (bell peppers from the garden)

Chili (home made, vegetarian)

Taco Soup (W found this one in weight watchers, but it has become a family all time favorite)

Lasagna

Turkey soup (home made noodles, carrots from the garden)

Stir Fry (using veggies from the garden)
You can use the same veggies and spice it differently so that you get variety with nearly the same base ingredients.

You may not have much room though, and you are probably better at this than I am, so I'll go on. (SS laughs again.)



I'm not complaining about the meds, though, because they are handling the pain. I also think that what I am going to do is go get some back therapy - could be that the stress is making all my muscles tighten up somewhere....they have also said that it could have been caused in childbirth.....

I think back therapy may help. Some say it helps a great deal, and others say not much, but it is probably worth a try. At least you will know. As far as child birth - well, that one is beyond me. I have done kidney stones, but no child birth. <grin>

- I think that's plausible - it's a kind of funny thing to say, but childbirth is such an intense and painful experience (at least it was for me)that you remember all the little details that are hard to explain. There are things about both the births that I remember, for instance that my 2nd son weighed really heavily on my left side - maybe he put pressure on all the nerves on that side of my body - my left side has certainly been "out of whack" in some way ever since. Most of my physical aches and pains happen on the left side of my body. I know it sounds weird but there you are. Or could it be....that I am just getting old?!! LOL! That too!-)


What do your other (women) friends say about this? I am not in the loop on this one. Getting old however....... I can weigh in on that one.

The elderly gentleman walked up to his friend at the post office. "I woke up this morning, and I thought I was dead."

What? Why did you think you were dead?"

"When I woke up, nothing hurt, and I couldn't think of any thing else that could cause that at my age."



I have also now been with my counselor for a year. I really thank you for that. It was being able to talk to you again that helped me muster up the strength I needed to call the counselors and get an appointment. I was so depressed this time last year. I think in general I feel better.


I am so glad you did this. Have hoped, and prayed for many months that you would get to a better place. Depression is a difficult thing. Those who have not experienced it do not understand at all. It sucks the life, and will to accomplish right out of a person.

This is one of the reasons we continue to pray for you. I visit with people nearly every week who suffer from depression. I know that words alone don't change things, but they can help somewhat.

I remind people that this is not home. It's not.
We will never be where we want to be until we are able to go home again. This is a temporary place, a temporary life. We face things here, that will not exist there. Make the best of it, but don't think you are not normal. SS laughs out loud..... normal is such a weird word......... when you think about it.

What does make me sad is my R with H. It is no better and no worse. It is just the same. Even though we had a good summer - good holidays, good time with my FIL, H is still the same. I have tried to reach him again and again, but nothing I do or say brings him out into the open. He is hiding in his cave and it seems like he is determined to stay there. I pray for him.

Remember what Jesus said: "I came to do the will of my father."
and
"Come, follow me."

Please don't ever think that your labor's are in vain. We do the best we can, and no one can do any better than that. Now, I realize that it doesn't fix your marriage to say this. But, keeping things in perspective is always wise. I am glad you keep trying. I so wish....... that he would join you.

I would love to go on talking, but it is now 10 minutes to 10 here and I have to get my boys into bed. I just wanted you to know that I read your post and I appreciate your comments and the time you took. When I can I will be back to reply.

Do you have a nightly routine?
I used to read a chapter of something to my girls each night. Over the years we went through many fairy tale books, the Hobbit, all three Lord of the Rings volumes, the CS Lewis children's series, all the Harry Potter books, and many more. These days we read a chapter from the scriptures, and we have a family prayer. It helps them settle down, and get in the mood for going to bed.
I just wondered, no real reason for asking. I hope your boys are doing well.


My garden did well this year, too! Lots of red potatos and white potatoes - some really weird looking carrots - short and stumpy with numerous legs! Good broad beans and red chard - love that! Now it is all being dug over....I've done a lot and have lots to do!

We had the weird carrots too. Must be the year for them. I had some that could have starred in a science fiction movie. We will continue to get things through the end of November. I tried leeks this year, and they did reasonably well.

Oh, and also, H has seen a house he wants to buy (for all of us) and he is doing loads of work on our house to make it presentable to sell....we shall see...in this current economic crisis, selling our house may not be the best idea just now....I've seen the house and I like it, but I am afraid of taking out a mortgage right now...our house is not ready to sell yet, so we still have some time to consider the options.....whew!


This one caused my eyes to bulge out, and I sat here, mouth open, trying to grasp the implications.

Well, it doesn't look like he is looking to leave any time soon. What do you think about this?
What does your counselor think?
And........ what we would really like to know, what is your H thinking?

Is he really willing to continue to live as he is now?
This is one of those cases where I would like to know a lot more about his child hood. Perhaps the little (you have related over the years) is trying to tell me something.

I really must go now, but God bless you and your family, ss - you are doing good in the world.

Thanks for your kind comments.

I have to think you are doing good in the world too. I have known very few caring mothers that were not. I know you care.


I really hope you feel God's love when you pray. It is a great help to know you are not alone, and that you will get help, and comfort.

Have also wondered how your sister, and father are getting along. Won't ask though, and I probably shouldn't even comment. Please don't feel as though you need to respond. Just wanted you to know someone cares.

SS

Dear ss,

Finally I was able to log in!

First I want to say I'm sorry it has been so long.

I have tried many many times over the past months to log in, but I don't know what happened....my browser would just stick and nothing would happen...I would wait 5-10 minutes...nothing...I tried in both Firefox, which is my normal browser and Internet Explorer, but with no success....today I am trying with Google Chrome, which I just downloaded on the advice of my son, who says that it was the only browser to survive some hackers' fair a few weeks ago. Well, I don't know about these things...all I know is I haven't been able to log in successfully and now with Google Chrome, I got in within seconds. So that's the first reason.

The other reasons were two deaths. First, my FIL, who died not long after the New Year. When I last posted in October, I was very worried about him, as I suspected his cancer was advancing, and I didn't think my H or his brother were understanding that my FIL probably didn't have long to live. My father was very blunt about his prognosis and I was trying to get through to my H and his family that FIL was going to need help soon. Well, FIL is very independent and he was very brave, but it gathered steam and swept over him. We had planned a surprise birthday party for him in December (which I let out of the bag as I thought it would give him something to hang on to) - but he went into the hospice at the beginning of December and never came out. We did all show up for his birthday party, and we were able to spend four days together, the whole family, just hanging out together in his room at the hospice. He did enjoy seeing us, but it was clear to me that he was not far from the end. I saw how my own mom weakened, just being burned up like candle wax and I could see the same happening to him. I warned my H and his B that their dad was dying, but they for some reason didn't take me seriously - they perhaps wanted to believe that the hospice would manage his pain and get him back home for another 6 months. I could see that wasn't going to happen. When I said goodbye to him, I knew in my heart that it was for the last time. He was very sweet. He died 10 days later. I'm going to really miss him.

So we then had to return for the funeral. That was in mid-January. I really felt for my H, as he was shocked and I know he had wanted to see him again. The good thing is that we were all home together when the news came. I was glad then that we were still together as a family, as my H did not have to hear the news while he was alone, and we were able to pray together and hug my H. Nevertheless, my H still went to his own bedroom that night. He chose to sleep alone, which I confess really hurt me.

Now my H has inherited a substantial amount from his Dad, which gives him a choice of many options. The plan at the moment seems to be to buy a big house, one which will accommodate all of us and our needs. H has been thoughtful and has done things that have shown me he is thinking of my needs, too. At the moment, he hasn't come into his inheritence yet, and we haven't found a suitable large house. Last week I had an opportunity to talk alone with H and I felt I had to put it out there that he now had the option of separating if that was what he wanted, and buying his own house. Now he didn't say no or yes for sure either way and he apologized for that - he said he was sorry to sound like a wet blanket, but he wasn't sure either way yet. So I left it that he had a lot of thinking to do. Yesterday he took OS out to look at 2 more bigger houses, but OS said they were not right, so they've eliminated those.

My counselling is going well, I think. I feel better about myself in myself. I've managed to get back to studying this last week and am almost finished with the module I'm working on, which makes me feel good.

But for me, the worst thing was that I lost my best friend in the first week of February. She died unexpectedly in the States while on holiday with her sister. My sister called me at 6am 4 days after she died. My friends called her and wanted her to be the one to tell me. I'm glad she was the one to tell me because I just collapsed when she told me. I couldn't go to work at all that day and thankfully I had a counselling appt, which I just managed to get to. H called home twice that day to check on me. I was able to go to work the next two days, but stayed in my boss's office because I was so fragile. It's still a bit unreal to me...because I live so far away from all of my family and from my closest friends, I can easily get into a mode where I think of them as always there in my mind. Still, it is hard. Everyone has that one friend who you know you can totally trust, where there is a special bond between you, and she was that one friend for me. I feel my whole life will be different because she is not there. So I went back to the US to go to her memorial service in mid-March. The great thing about that was that I got to see my sister for the first time in 4 1/2 years, and to spend some good time with my family - my uncle and aunt came over for dinner one evening, and the day I left, my whole family met for lunch at my uncle's house so I got to see my cousins and my other uncle. I didn't see my dad because he couldn't drive all the way down to see me. That was a good thing. I don't think I could have handled seeing him. He totally disgraced himself just a week before my friend died by getting drunk at a family party at my uncle's house and fighting with everyone. After that he has promised to go to AA, but none of us are holding our breath. There is a big family wedding coming up in June and my cousin is going to tell him she doesn't want him there....

So so much has happened.

I have tried to log in so many times to try to let you know that I was OK, but the blasted login problems have stopped me.

I do want you to know that I am OK.

I am quietly and in myself, grieving for my friend. But I am appreciating each day as it comes. I'm not trying to change my H and I've made the space for him to leave if that's what he wants to do. I feel good about myself and I try to keep my eyes looking up more these days. I'm blessed with a beautiful family and two lovely children. I do still pray for healing for my H, but I'm not hopeful for our marriage. I just go from day to day doing the best I can. Most of the time it's good enough. My feeling is that if he doesn't appreciate me, it is his loss. My friend's death has taught me not to take people for granted. I certainly never dreamed that she would be taken so soon. When I was crying hard for her, it just came to me that I am profoundly grateful that I was not so stupid as to refuse the friendship she so selflessly offered me, not too shy to let her into my life, and how lucky I was that she came into my life and chose me to be her friend. At her memorial service, it was clear that she had touched so many people in the same way with her generous and loving spirit. I was blessed to know her.

I just wanted to thank you for all you have done for me these past few years. And I want to wish you a blessed and happy Easter.

LIR

Bump for SS.

Hi LIR.

Hi Trix!
Hi LIR !

No time now, I'll be back.

SS

Hi SS,
I read your post on the F-Hygiene thread...hadn't seen you around for a while and thought you might have missed this....but knew that if you hadn't you probably didn't have the time or weren't ready to give LIR a response. Always nice to read you

Hello Trix!

Thanks for boosting my post!

I hope you had a good Easter.

All the best for a blessed 2009....

LIR

Hi ss!

Thanks for looking in....

No time now for me either. I have serious problems getting the use of my own computer these days....both my sons seem to need to monopolize it....although that will be somewhat alleviated in the coming weeks, as we are getting YS his own laptop, as he needs it for his dyslexia work at school, and I am getting my second-hand laptop fixed for my OS to use, as he is studying for his nationwide exams in May and June.

I don't know what was up with the login business....I even tried logging in from work, but that didn't work either, and also using our other computer at home, still no luck....I thought it must be my login...that I had not used it for a few weeks, so it went inactive, with so many other people needing access to the MB site. But now that I've just started using Google Chrome, I'm having no trouble at all.

I have two more days left of my Easter break, and then I'm back at work on Thursday. I have to rush out now to pick up a prescription, make a dentist appointment and then I'll be seeing one of my friends for tea this afternoon. My H is out in the back yard with YS fixing our bike shed roof. Yesterday he cut the lawn after I asked if one of the 3 men in the house could make it their task.....he also gave me some nice chocolate for Easter....I know that he is trying to be nice to me....he has actually been very good, but this does not extend to any physical affection, or any attempt to rebuild a "normal" relationship between us. I am working on this with my counselor as well...I just don't know how I would feel if that was what he wanted. Well, I will come back....but now I have to go....

Just wanted you to know I was OK and to thank you for your prayers. My sister sent me a story about the reading from Malachi which I will share later when I have the time....I think lots of people here would like it....

All the best,
LIR

How kind of you to wish me a happy Easter. And thank you for letting me know how you are.
I admit that I worried from time to time. Was in southern Cal last week on business. It started me thinking about you. I never know (completely) the reasons that people post, or don't post.

I wondered if you had recovered your M. That would be the best reason not to post. I would be sincerely happy if you were in that situation. I examined some of the standard reasons that people leave MB, but none of them seemed to fit. I am sure you would not leave for good without saying something. Never thought about the browser.
Another thing you could try with the other browsers, is to delete your cookies, especially the MB cookies. I had that problem more than once. Deleting cookies fixes it for me.


You seem to be doing well.

When people come in for help, and I interview them, I ask questions to give me a better idea of how they really are, and to help me better know what direction to take with them. Sometimes they have all the right answers, but they still are not doing well. On the surface the seem fine, but deep down, there are still "unsolved mystery's."

You seem to have the "right answers" too. Based on the things you report, you DO seem to be OK.

SS smiles -

Since you seem to be doing well, I'll only ask A FEW questions.
It would really be easier to do this in person. I am sure my W would enjoy talking to you also. However, I don't see that happening in the next few weeks, so I'll just type them out. (ss chuckles out loud)

Who do you talk to now that your friend is gone?

How is your faith?

What things make you happy?
I think that question is too broad, so lets tighten it up a little bit. In the context of things that make you happy.............. what do you live for? (you already said that your family was one of these things, and I know it is very important, but I want to know if there are other things besides your family)
What do you get excited about? What future date on your calendar do you look at, and wish it would come sooner?

I have typed out, and deleted other questions - lets just go with these for now.

You and I both like to give background with our posts. It makes your posts longer, and if I may say - much more interesting. However, you may not have time for that any time soon. Be willing to give one sentence answers if you have to.

I know you just came to tell me you are OK, and don't require a post like this, but ........ well, you know me.

Who votes for an update from Trix?
SS - Aye
Several historical figures -
Aye
Aye
Aye
Aye
LIR ?

Oh, and one last question. How goes the garden? Last year, and this year so far?

SS

Well, I'm still married, and it looks like I'm likely to stay that way for some time, despite the issues.

Last year, I went and "interviewed" three divorce lawyers - I wanted to file for divorce last autumn, but when I called the lawyer I had seen before, she couldn't arrange a meeting for two weeks, then she cancelled and rescheduled three times. Needless to say, that didn't set too well with me. So I got two other recommendations and went to see these other two. I'm glad I did as I got different advice from all of them regarding the status of my H's inheritance. I am now finally clear about what my rights would be in the event of a divorce. I am glad now that I waited and did not file for divorce, as it turns out that our house needs major structural repairs. (We have the builders in now starting the work, and it's going well). Had I filed for divorce last year, I would be sitting in a house that needed major work done on it that I couldn't afford, nor would I be able to sell it, or rent it in it's present condition. I would have been able to get the work done on the household insurance, but then my insurance premiums would have gone through the roof. So, as it is, we are now getting the work done on the house that it needs, and my H is paying for it all. We are also trying to buy a bigger house and have made an offer on one and are negotiating the price. If that sale goes through, we will own two houses in both our names.

I have decided to sit and wait. Why?

I finally found personal cards and notes from the OW. Bleacgh! Little rows of xxxxx's all around the outside of the card. Grow up you stupid cow! I photocopied them all - one of them even has a date on it. Also, a present to my H from someone else of a book called "Against Love" by Laura Kipnis. Bleacgh again! OW literally FAWNS over my H, it's all "because I was with YOU" and "we'll quench our thirst again and again"...Bleacgh again!! (Washing my mouth out now) And here's my H going to go to church with me next month for YS' Confirmation.

I decided that staying married gave me more control over my children. I am NEVER going to let OW near my kids. OS is 17, YS is 14 - this has been going on now for 4 years. By staying married, OK, I accept that I can be accused of enabling my H's affair. But I am also in control of who has access to my kids. And I am never, ever, ever going to concede to a situation where my H has the right to introduced her to them. I will be the barrier between her and them for as long as I can. Until they are old enough to decide for themselves that they don't want to see their dad and that home-wrecker in their lives. And believe me, they are going to be fully aware of what she did to us. YS is still too young. When they are grown-up enough, then I will reconsider my decision. I was put in that position when I was a child and the impact on me was catastrophic. I'm never going to let what happened to me happen to my own children. I recognize that I am the constant in their life. If there is only one constant, then it has to be me. They are also both doing well, with both of them working at A-level in school, and with a good network of friends.

So - my plan is to move into this new house and see how things are when we all have enough room to have our own space. I am sure the boys will be happier when they each have their own room and there is a big kitchen and family room for them to relax in without bumping into their Dad. H can go do whatever it is he does in the garage. It is ultimately to my financial advantage to get into a position where we own both houses. I don't think it's being mercenary to try to look after my own interests, and it's up to me what I can stand and what I can't.

My H has been generous with money in ways that I need, so I am giving him credit for that. I am taking the boys to the US in August for a month to spend time with my family. H is paying for that. H is not coming with us, he is going to Italy - says he has a class to teach. I think I can guess who will be with him for part of that time. My dear, dear uncle was also taken ill and died earlier this month. I was able to go spend a week with my family and my uncle - I got there and was able to speak to him before he died. H paid for my trip. My dad was also diagnosed with lymphoma in Jan and is now on his fourth chemo session. I've been on the phone daily with dad and his wife, supporting her in doing what she has to do to take care of him. I think she is doing a really good job of taking care of him and, at 63, is finally growing up! Because Dad lives in such a remote area, it is not possible for me to get to see him until August. He is doing well, though. With all this going on, I need to be able to afford to travel if I have to. So I am just hunkering down for the moment.

My counselling sessions are going well. I think I am stronger than I was four years ago.

Finding those letters has made me mad. It has also shown me the evil at work in H's life, and the evil at work in adultery. I pray for my H. OS says to me that what he can't understand is how H can go on doing what he's doing, even while proclaiming himself publicly to be a Christian and expounding to us on Christianity. I'ts like H has this disconnect between what he believes and what he does, like he has put his R with OW in a box and says, "this doesn't count, this is private". I am sad over what the A has done to H. But it's his choice. You can say that I haven't made it possible for him to kick his addiction because I haven't kicked him out. But....I have to think of myself and the kids and what is best for them. I am not confident that H would have quit his A if I kicked him out. My decision has been to stay, although I recognize it is not a popular one. It is not permanent, though. It is constantly being reviewed.

It's raining now, and I have to go to the Post Office. As usual, I can't spend more time here. But I wanted to post. And to thank you for prayers you have said for me and for keeping me in your prayers.

Hmm. There might be signs that H is coming out of the fog. Yesterday he approached me and asked me, quite tentatively, I have to say, whether or not we should go ahead with our offer on the bigger house.

I was very careful with him. I wasn't angry and he didn't show any signs of anger. He seemed really sad. He asked that we try to go on together. He said he needed time to get himself together. I told him there was no chance for us at all unless he stopped seeing OW and never saw her again, and never spoke to her again. He said he knew that. He said that instantly. I told him I knew who OW was. I said I thought she had gone after him real hard (I know she did). He agreed. I told him I am the same person as I was when he met me and he's been mad at me for things but I never felt any malice towards anyone. I told him he couldn't see who I was because OW is like a splinter in his eye and he can't see me until she is gone. I told him I feel totally trapped but that I am doing what I'm doing because I think it's what is best for the kids. But what would have been best for us would not have been what was best for them. I told him that even though I'm doing the best I can, I can't stop stuff from happening, like YS getting ahold of his phone and reading all OW text msgs. Bad stuff like that. (I don't think he knew about that) He was very quiet. I told him since money wasn't an issue anymore, he could go and get his own house now if he wanted and I was fine with that. I said that since he had found someone else, I was fine with him going to live with her. He reacted negatively to that. (I was interested by that - I know H pretty well and he seemed like he thought that would never work, like he thought that would be a really bad idea) I told him that we weren't going to be like our friends, with their children coming back when they are grown, and having a happy family life with grandchildren around. I told him that wasn't going to be us..the kids are going to go as soon as they can and they won't come back. He said I didn't know that for sure. I said I did - that's what they want. When I suggested him living alone, living with OW, or even finding someone else after OW, he was really negative about that. He reacted with real sadness. I got the feeling he was looking at himself down the line, alone in his house, with no family and he didn't like that picture too much. He said he was done rocking the boat and he just wanted to try to get our life back together, to try to live together in this new house and see how things go. He was real quiet. I told him I'd think about it and maybe we could talk some more. I told him if he ever wanted to talk he could always come to talk. He thanked me for that, and thanked me for saying what I'd said.

It was a real sad conversation. I definitely got the feeling that he is really getting it - that he has really made a mess of his life (and ours). He said several times that he had never meant for things to be this way. I answered that I knew that. But in my heart, I am not getting drawn back into this. I know it would take a lot more than this for him to ever reach a point where he could have a real relationship with anyone again, let alone me.

But I am watching him. He's been paying for everything he should be paying for. He's getting our house fixed bigtime and is paying for me to go see my family. In my feeling, he owes me this. I never thought he would come out of the fog, and I'm not holding out a lot of hope in that sense because I know he could go right back in again, or even, just start another affair with someone new. Still - I think the fog cleared for a while and allowed him to see the devastation he's caused, not least of all to himself.

I'm just trying to get my own self and life together. I'm concentrating on my garden, the children and my own family and friends - the people I know really love me. I'm still struggling with my degree course, but am starting to get back on track with that. I'm not going to get caught up emotionally in what's up with H. If I hadn't spent so long here at MB, I probably would be, but I think I can recognize some signs for what they are. I still know it is not a recovery, though. Just a sign that H is not feeling very comfortable where he is, which maybe means his A is over, or nearly over.

I just want to thank everyone who has tried to help me over the years. Everyone who posts here has been helpful, too, because I have read a lot of threads even though I might never have posted. I haven't taken actions that I probably should have, for my own reasons, I've made the decisions I've made. Even if our marriage does not survive, I think I am a stronger person than I was. For all of that, I thank everyone who has ever posted to me.

Should I ask you questions?

SS