No, he doesn't text and neither do I, but it might help if we started. Gotta figure out how to do it lol and see if he's willing also...

We do "stay in touch" in that I can call him on his cell and if he misses my call, he often returns it right away or maybe as soon as a meeting is finished or as soon as he's in an area with service. Lots of times if he's in a meeting, I can send him email and he can reply.

But that isn't texting, is it?

Actually I think it isn't, because I think he's using his laptop, not his cell phone. And he can't always do that, not like ppl can just about always text.

We're an odd family, we don't text and have never Wii'ed!

I think it might in general help meet my EN if operational discussions evolved into deeper conversations like described. And I guess I should *let* that meet my EN...

But at this point, it is important to me to see that he cares enough to honor a commitment to set aside some time specifically for conversation.

Thinking about that, I feel guilty, like I'm acting childish, insisting on it being a certain way... but I think it actually fits in with how Dr. Harley describes LB$ deposits only happen when you meet your spouse's needs in the way they want them to be met. Like how the ENQ asks if your spouse is doing things like Conversation, Affection, DS, FS, SF, etc., and how much; and then the next question asks if you *like* the *way* they are doing it.

And I think my particular desire that he come to me and say he's now ready for our Conversation Time is because it doesn't meet my need for it to be UA if it's just a few sentences as tangents during the course of the day.

And also, those tangents are pretty much just me talking, not him. He wouldn't much contribute to such a discussion.

I wasn't trying to sound like I was trying to shoot down ideas. I just knew it didn't "feel" right, and I was exploring why it doesn't feel like it would be satisfying.

Maybe I should at least try to accept it for starters?

I agree Jayne. However, I've heard numerous times that we meet those needs in ways that are comfortable to us and not necessarily the way the spouse wants them met. For example, if my wife likes a clean kitchen and I absolutely hate doing dishes and am not enthusiastic about it, then I should not be required to do the dishes and my spouse and I have to POJA an alternative.

I'm with you; if the request is reasonable (i.e. she wants dishes done as part of a clean kitchen) then I should learn to be enthusiastic about it. If it's not hurting me and it's making her happy, then it should make me happy.


I'm wondering (and I'm sorry if I missed it) have you tried asking him to just talk about his day? He could easily say "hey. A funny thing happened today..." Or "Today work was uneventful, blah blah blah"

Yes, I've asked about his day. It's even worse than you'd think, because we actually work in the same field, so I am one wife who actually can "talk shop" with her H. But he doesn't, usually. In fact ppl will assume I know about xyz thinking H must have told me... only he hasn't. I find out from other ppl about things H would be expected to tell me.

A few days ago I posted about how I tried to initiate a conversation about something I would've thought he'd be happy to discuss (not feelings or emotions or relationship or kids; just how to spend a tax refund) at the time when he'd said he was willing to talk (after he's finished doing everything else he wants to do, and is coming to bed) and he said "I don't feel like talking."

Ya know, I keep saying in my posts that he just isn't much of a talker in general, and that isn't entirely true. It's true that he was that way when I first met him, and that I thought he was shy. But when we are out in public or in a professional setting, he seems as talkative as anyone else.

I read and re read that conversation about the rain. I think it was going OK until you started saying: But can you hear the rain from our bedroom?

That statement would have or could have shut down a conversation accidently. Because the person could have percieved you trying to "correct them or mess with them in the conversation"

That could have been percieved as "BUT, HOW CAN YOU EVEN HEAR THE RAIN IN HERE, YOU IDIOT! WHY DO YOU EVEN SAY ANYTHING. NO ONE CAN HEAR THE RAIN IN THIS ROOM!!!! GEEZE!!!! YOU FAILURE. NOW TALK TO ME SOME MORE SO I CAN DENIGRATE YOU MORE, OK?

For a quiet person, you really have to be on thier level to converse, there may be a way you are conversing or an unpleasant level in your voice or a mannerism that turns him off of ever talking to YOU. Once you figure out what this is, you can shut it down in yourself and perhaps he will start talking to you once again. You can only hope! I wish you could ask his mother about thier conversations. It would give some good hints perhaps. If we heard a tape of your conversations with him, maybe we could instantly see the problem.

You could tape one conversation, and then play it back for your husband and look at what is going on.

You're prolly right, that might have been a conversation killer. I realized it after I said it. Of course I didn't mean it that way. And I tried to keep the conversation giong.

Honestly, though, I don't think he had anything else to say... it didn't "feel" tense, or like the conversation ended suddenly. Maybe. IIRC.

Yes I need to watch out for conversation stoppers. I sometimes catch myself doing that sort of thing.

I think he does it almost all the time though. Almost every time I start to suggest something, his automatic response is to poo-poo it. Sometimes after he has a chance to think about it, he'll change his mind. But his knee-jerk response is to assume it won't work and to look for what's wrong with it.

For example, I think it was a couple nights ago, H complained about someone leaving the water in the bathroom dripping. One of the cats loves drinking from the faucet, and will run into the bathroom anytime anyone ventures near that door, and meow for them to turn on the water. But we sometimes forget to turn it back off.

So I mentioned buying one of those running water drinking fountains for pets. H said he didn't want it where we feed the cats. I said it didn't have to be the same place we feed the cats, after all the bathroom and kitchen faucets aren't where we feed the cats but that's where Lucky drinks. He tried to argue that point, but then turned it around to say "Well where would you want to put it?"

So I started brainstorming/thinking out loud. I hadn't really decided to put it anywhere, but I mistakenly thought it was ok to *discuss* options. After all, we weren't heading out to actually buy the thing right then, we weren't even in serious decision mode, we were just chatting at the dinner table.

So I said, "Well how about over against the wall there, or over-"

And I didn't pause even a microsecond, I was in the middle of naming several places off the top of my head. But he interrupted me mid-word and said "No, ppl walk there!"

I stopped, and then pointed out to him I was just naming places, I wasn't saying we *had* to buy the thing, and I wasn't saying it *had* to be there,, I was just naming places off the top of my head. And that he was again shooting down my idea just for the sake of shooting it down.

Granted, I said it in a more DJ way than that. I said something like, "Well of course I can't have had a good idea. I'm sorry, of course you're right, there's no place anywhere it could possibly go. All those other ppl who have those things are just idiots for thinking there's someplace in the house where they could go."

He turned completely grumpy. Later that night as we were playing b-ball with the kids, I ended up apologizing for being sarcastic. But I still maintain that he automatically poo-poos any idea I have. And I've tried telling him that, every way from sarcastic to respectful, and he still does it.

And he didn't apologize for poopooing my idea.

I feel resentful over apologizing for pointing out that he completely disrespects any idea I have.

Actually, I think I'd like to do this. But not for the reason you suggested. For the opposite reason.

How do you go about doing this? Do I need a VAR or what? I would want to do it without him knowing it's recording. Should I take a regular recorder and hide it? Or can I use my laptop or something? Or should I get a VAR?

ETA: Of course if it shows what I'm doing wrong, I will admit it and learn.

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Ok guys, here's a question...

When you are in the bathroom, and the TMI noises indicate that you pretty much did your "business" pretty soon after going in there, and yet you are in there for an additional 30 minutes....

Are you just reading? Or are you "taking care of other business" too? Might this "business" go against MB advice?

Does Winnie the Pooh need to go undercover in the bathroom a few days to get to the bottom of this???

I can only speak for myself.

I wouldn't finish half the books sitting on my nightstand if I didn't have that extra 30 min in the bathroom!

But I'm not a guy...

I have no idea. I'm in and out ASAP. I run water so no one hears me even pee. My buddy Jonathan will go in and read a couple chapters of a book and he'll be in there for a good 30 minutes.

In the 11 years my wife and I have been together, we've even so much as seen each other pee. Well once when the bathroom light had burned out and I didn't know and she had to leave the door open for light to pee. I think the most we've done is burp in front of each other.

Since the kids moved in with us last year dh spends a large amount of time in the bathroom. He's using his netbook, lol. He claims it's the only place he can get any privacy. It does cause an issue because there's only the one toilet.

We've poja'd that he can stay in there as long as he wants to, but he can't be growly when people with a legitimate need for the functional purpose of the place ask for their turn.

Jayne, you've discussed a couple of times that your husband dislikes new things. Perhaps it is that he hates change. My husband is much the same. Everytime I have made a big purchase (within budget) of something that changes things, he at first is not positive, but then when he gets used to it says that he can't believe how we got along without it.

OurHouse - ROFL. You and I were definitely separated at birth. We have a reading stack in the master bath, because that's the ONLY place any reading gets done!

According to my H, Jayne, the "business" you're referring to is best dealt with in a long shower, not on the john. Long stretches on the "throne" are usually related to reading.

Ok, thanks for the info! He prolly is reading, and that is just about the only time he gets to read. He ends up reading more than I do, since he reads a little every day and I spend so much time here...

You POJA'd BATHROOM HABITS?!?!?!?!?!

I'm totally ROFL!!!! If you can POJA that, you can POJA ANYTHING!!!!!

Someone needs to send this to Dr. H. I bet he would crack up!

This afternoon H *did* allow a conversation about how he hasn't upheld his commitment to having a conversation...

<yes, I know... talking about talking...>

... and I mentioned that I felt hurt when he chose to do x and y and z and everything else instead of talking to me.

Time spent in the bathroom came up. lol He accused me of micromanaging.

<In all fairness to myself, I said I brought it up as one of many examples of things he chose to do instead of talking to me...>