I am trying to find that line. Isn't any plan A during an active affair plan doormat? How do you differentiate?

I can't take credit for this. I picked it up on someone else's thread. Can't remember who or where.



My plan A hasn't really been that great to date but I'm working on it. I'm reluctant to go to plan B because of this. I am also stuck in A while WW is in the house. I can file, but that is a process that will take months to get her out of the house. I think a quick transition from A to B is essential. I can't do that now.


Right now I don't really think any of the plans will work. Except plan P (pray a lot). I need to try though. I have been all over the place with my actions/ reactions to date. For now I am trying to stick to one plan and do it all the way. Plan A or B may not be the right choice but they are better than plan schizo.

Bottom line is, I love my wife dearly and my family is my number one priority in my life. Each day I have less and less hope. Everyone around me is moving on and I find myself looking for the smallest sign of anything possitive while I ignor the huge negative statements and actions. I'm trying to be stong for my children. I hear everyone here saying that I need to work on me so that if this doesn't work out I can become a better person. I'm on board for that but I may be a better person in a much worse place than I once was. I know I can recover, but this decision will affect my kids for the rest of their lives. Nothing will ever be the same. That scares me for them.

I can think of three differentiators:

* time limit. Plan A has a time limit and does not go on forever. The time limit is private and known only to you, not your spouse. It is true that men can Plan A for longer than women and Dr. Harley sometimes advises them to extend their time limit and go on for much longer than the originally anticipated, but this is only AFTER they have proven they are up to it and developed adequate support systems. Plan A has an eventual end, which brings us to:

* Plan B. Start your Plan B prep immediately; don't put it off. You want to be able to go into Plan B as quickly as possible at a moment's notice. You don't want to start prepping for Plan B when you need it.

* The Stick. Plan A has a carrot and a stick. If you haven't read this essay, yet, ask for someone to post a link for you so that you can read it. You must include both the carrot and the stick in your plan A.

Plan doormat involves you telling your Taker to shut up, forever. Your Taker can't do that. Eventually it will wake up and scream, and the harder you have fought it, the more of a barbarian it will be. You will find yourself alternating between doormat and attack your spouse, which will more than cancel out any of the Love Bank benefits you might have gotten from the doormat part. This is Plan C: Plan Chaos, or Plan Confusion. It's the worst of all possible choices because it gives you the LEAST chance possible for your spouse to decide to recover with you.

By the way, in case it hasn't been mentioned yet, DO NOT TELL YOUR SPOUSE ABOUT PLAN A AND PLAN B!!! These are for you alone; they are not plans for you to do together, and they are not plans for recovery. As part of the Stick part of Plan A, you will tell your spouse you want to engage in a program of marital recovery together; that is the rest of Marriage Builders, the good part, the part with nearly-100% success. You don't have to mention Marriage Builders is that plan, but either way, you definitely should not AT ALL mention Plan A or Plan B. Some people get confused and think they are supposed to tell their spouse about these plans and ask them if they want to participate, and that really makes a mess of things. Plans A and B are decisions that you make, not plans you work together.

sot, have you gotten ahold of Dr. Harley's book Surviving an Affair, yet? I think you will find it will help you make sense of this decision and what direction to move so that you are both working on yourself and maximizing the chances that your marriage will recover.

Markos - I have read SAF and HNHN. WW had agreed to read SAF, but after I read it I decided not to give it to her since it has information about Plan A and B in it. I realize she is not supposed to know about these but I think she may. She mentioned she had been to this site, but I don't know how much she read. Right now, she thinks any changes in me are just some sort of manipulation to trick her into staying with me. In one of the many conversations we have had over the last couple of months she was telling me that I just didn't get it. That she was done. This marriage was not going to recover. That she never loved me. That the OM had nothing to do with our problems. That she would never agree to stay married to me. I explained that i did understand that she felt this way now, but that I also understood that those feelings could change. I explained that people in her situation often said many of the things that she was saying and that those feelings often change. I told her she wasn't unique in the way she felt. She then explained that what I was doing was typical too and she referenced this site. She has been very leary of letting me meet any of her needs. If she thinks conversation is getting too intimate, she stops it immediately. No affection is allowed.

I don't yet have a timeline for Plan A but I don't feel like 2 months of a fairly bad Plan A are long enough. I'm not sure how to react though. I can't fight with her every time she wants to leave the house, but I also am not able to make myself look the other way and pretend the A isn't going on. Am I supposed to let it go? If I fight with her constantly how do I gain LB deposits. I am looking for the balance between the carrot and the stick.

My instinct has been to talk it out. This is why my Plan A has been so poor to date. I know I shouldn't try to have a rational conversation with her about why it makes since to stay and to get her to understand how much I love her and this family. Lately I have been doing a better job of not bringing relationship stuff up. So if I start the clock on Plan A from the point I have been doing it correctly its probably only been a week.

I don't expect instant results. I wish though that I could see or hear something that suggested that she is considering the possibility of us staying together. Right now, it seems this is absolutely impossible in her mind. And that really sucks!

You shouldn't EVER be fighting with your wife.

The stick of Plan A is not fighting. You shouldn't be trying to balance fighting with anything.

Go get ahold of that article/essay on the carrot and the stick and read through them.

She has been very leary of letting me meet any of her needs. If she thinks conversation is getting too intimate, she stops it immediately. No affection is allowed.

Of course she doesn't want you to meet her needs do you want to know why? Being a WW myself, I have been there done that. This is why I didnt want my husband to deposity LB in my account.

1. I didn't want to fall back in love with him, even though deep down I knew I still loved him, but the fog that was in front of my face was So thick, and the excitement of being with someone else was so strong.

2. When he was nice to me, or gave me any affection, I got angry, resentful, and hated myself, I literally punished myself because what I was doing was wrong, and when you are nice to someone that is treating there spouse this way makes us feel GUILTY! So keep making her guilty! She knows what she is doing is wrong, and every time you are nice or meet one of her needs she will feel bad.

3. The reason why your wife is miserable right now, and depressed is because WS punish ourselves, I know that sounds dumb but its the truth. We think we don't deserve you, or this life, bla bla bla. We actually lie to ourselves, that's why we are the best lairs! If we can convince ourselves that what we have we don't deserve...I mean come on??

So even though you say she doesn't want you to meet any EN's I still think you should keep trying! I know it will hurt, but keep trying!

I'm not sure what article you mean. Do you mean Pepper's post on the carrot and the stick? I really am confused about how I am supposed to deal with the ongoing affair. I am currently trying to resist all WW's efforts to meet up with OM. This causes a fight. Even if I don't have AO or DJ, we are still on opposite sides of an issue. WW definitly gets angry, and I get emotional (I get angry but try not to lash out in any way. I can't say I'm calm but I am consciously trying not to LB). No matter what I call it, she sees this as a fight. Am I handling these situations incorrectly? As I type I just go a call from WW. Apparently she has taken to calling me 'the warden'. Clearly my attempts to stop the affair are making withdraws, but I know I can't make real deposits until the A is over. How can I handle this better?

Sapphire - I can't tell you how much I appreciate your insight into the mind of the WW. Please keep posting. The more I understand the way she may be thinking the more hope I have. To me it doesn't seem like any of this type of second guessing is going on in her mind. She doesn't really seem depressed, but is very angry. She definitly avoids me as much as she can. I do think this is because she feels guilty more than she doesn't like me. I feel like maybe she can't stand me because when I'm around she can't stand herself. I guess that is what you are saying.

Does anyone think Orchid's post on reverse babble may help Sot out? I know I read it a few days ago and thought it was pure genius, but since I have not had to go through Plan A so far, I am not sure if it would be appropriate.

WS have a lot of emotions going threw them, either angry, resentment, depressed, guilty etc. They all have these emotions, some WS have a couple that dominate over the other, for instance mine was resentment and guilty. Even though those two were dominate then the other emotions, I had them ALL! When I had all of these emotions going threw me, I was literally exhausted! I didn't want to feel loved from my H because that will just be another emotion I wouldn't be able to handle. So therefore we avoid our loving Husband, that is what she is doing. She can't handle everything that is going on with her, so she will distant herself from you, ignore you, because we think that will fix everything! But in reality it wont, it would just make it worse, avoiding the ONE thing we most need...and that is LOVE! True LOVE! Not this fantasy love that she is addicted to.

So even tho she is distant, or wants to pick fights keep doing your plan A. My husband did plan A for about 2 months, and I was doing everything what your wife is doing, I was flaunting my A. He kept it up, I still am so grateful to my husband that he stuck to his plan!

You guys don't know this, (maybe you do) but you actually have the upper hand, you have plans, your focused, your determined. You have it all! And guess what we have? NOTHING, none of those things do we have, we are not focused we want the easy way out. We do not have a plan, we THINK we have a plan, but in reality we don't! We are not determine, we are a MESS! WS are in a BIG GIGANTIC maze trying to find the way out, but we don't realize is that the maze move every 5 min, and we are literally LOST!

This makes so much sense. She feels the faster she can get a divorce from me the quicker she can return to a "normal" life. I think she sees me as the impediment to happiness. I found a reciept for her lawyer yesterday in her purse. She had been telling me all weekend how she was totally out of money and had even convienced me to put gas in her car. Before I got home, she called asking for me to pay for the grocieries this week (this is one of the things I refuse to pay for). So when I got home I started to snoop and found the receipt dated yesterday. I refused to give the money for the groceries and that caused conflict. I told her that I would not be financing her lawyer and she needed to figure it out or the family would have to go without food this week. She was furious. Apparently looking through her purse and phone are major violations of decency. Sneeking around with OM doing who knows what is just fine though. Anyway, I found out that I am an angry, sad, controlling manipulative person and she hopes I can find someone who makes me happy. I stayed calm, trying not to LB. I'm sure some DJ's slipped out, but I must of done a decent job because eventually she calmed down and we ended up having a conversation about our history. We discussed a couple specific situations in our past where she felt I had mistreated her or acted in an inappropriate way. I took responsibility for my mistakes and tried express to her what I felt was her role in those events. She only wants to see my faults but none of her own. A freind at work yesterday said something that stuck with me. They said that no matter where you go, you will be there. If you don't resolve your own issues a change in circumstances won't amount to much. Our behaviors our linked and she fails to see that. My DJ's and AO's are connected to her DJ's and dishonesty. At this point it isn't really important who the first offender was. She was engaged in the conversation. That has only happened a couple of times since this began.


Sapphire - I don't feel like I have the upper hand at all. I feel like I am fighting a losing battle. WW doesn't think she is lost in that maze. She thinks she see the light at the end of the tunnel. She feels like getting rid of me and living happily ever after with the OM (who spent 30 days in a rehab clinic before he moved to town)is the path to happiness. Did you ever express doubt to your BH? She said last night she is 150% sure she is doing the right thing. Even if that is mathmatically impossible, she believes it.

Like I said "WE THINK" we have a plan, but it is not the "RIGHT" plan! We think leaving our beloved husband will fix all of these emotions, we think "Going the easy way out" is our only solution for happiness, but I GUARANTEE you that it wont make her happy at all, it will only be happy for about 4 months after the divorce, then she will realize that it wasn't exactly what she wanted.

Studies show that 90% of divorces that actually do divorce regret it in the long road.

So yes she says "I am 150% sure this is what I want." but in reality she is just thinking of herself, what will MAKE HER happy! And therefore we think divorce will do that for us, find someone else.

EVERYONE have issues in there own life! Both female and male, but if you don't resolve them in THIS MARRIAGE, then I promise you she will have the exact same issues in the NEXT MARRIAGE! Why do you think people get married, divorced, them married again, and divorce AGAIN! If we don't resolve them then it will just happen again.

You might not FEEL like you have the upper hand, but WS are physically AND emotionally not FIT! We only think of ourselves, we dont think about how much we are hurting our family, we are in some sort of fantasy, you have the upper hand because you are in the reality, and reality is the TRUTH! The fantasy is NOT! That is why I say you have the upper hand, even though you feel like your not, just know THAT YOU DO! And don't ever forget that, as long as you know what your plan is then you are set!

I am soo glad you didn't pay for her groceries! Don't pay for anything for her, not even gas! She has to know exactly what it will be like with out you.

Knowing that her happiness will be short lived doesn't make me feel better about the situation that my kids and I are in. I am only hoping the fog can clear before it is too late. What was it that broke through your fog? What made you come to your senses? Was it a slow process or did you wake up one day and realize that your weren't as sure about what you wanted as you thought you were? I don't see any signs of doubt.

Well my two emotions that dominated all the rest was, resentment, and guilt! I had soo much guilt that I was literally destroying myself, and I HATED IT! Even though I wanted the easy way out just like all the other Wayward's, I couldn't just leave my husband, even thought I wanted to! Every WS wants to take the easy road, but it WONT make them happy

My fog lifted when my husband exposed my A on FB to all of my friends, family, his friends etc. (We were all friends) After he exposed me I left to Colorado to stay with my sister. If you really want to read everything you can go to my thread. If it helps.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=160243&Number=2375797#Post2375797

I'm not good on links so just copy and paste.

It also helped since I was in plan B, when I knew I wanted my husband more and more each day we were apart.

I'm really struggling today. I can't seem to control my depression and anxiety. I am low on hope. I don't see a senario where WW doesn't go through with the D. So I am left with wondering how do I protect my kids from this toxic OM. I wouldn't be suprised if an affairage is the ultimate goal for WW. I'm not giving up, but I am having a hard time keeping myself together in the mean time. I have been in constant prayer since this began 9 weeks ago, and I have no tangible evidence that my prayers have been heard. Now I'm experiencing prayer fatigue. Having a plan only helps if you feel like the plan has a reasonable likelyhood of success. I could really use some good news.

Sometimes you have to let the affair die out before reconciliation can happen. My best advice to you for saving your marriage would be to find a way to get her out of the house (family pressure), file for legal separation (or D), get a favorable custody and financial arrangement, and then go to a DARK plan B and wait for this affair to this loser to die. You may wind up getting divorced, but you can always remarry afterwards. At some point the affair will die, and your WW may sniff around to see if you are open to reconciliation, but if you don't plan B, you won't want her back. You need to get to plan B. This guy is a total loser, and the affair won't last long once she has only him to meet her needs. I would pluck down some money on a good bulldog lawyer, determine a good strategy on getting custody and keeping OM away from the children (the rehab might help), and then letting this thing fizzle out while you hide out on the dark side of the moon in plan B. Start documenting every bad thing she does, every time she goes out leaving you home with the kids, and who takes the kids to their functions, doctors appointments, etc. You want to get custody.

You determine how long you want to be in Plan A, the whole reason why we do a plan A is so when you do go into plan B then she will know exactly what she has missed. During your plan A you need to do the following...

No LB
Meet her EN'S (even though she doesn't want u to, do anyway)
No talking about the A
Don't confront her on anything about the A

Usually people stay in plan A about 4-8 weeks, but it is not our decision how long you can be in plan A, that is your choice.

Sot,

When is the last time you did something nice for YOU? Seriously. You have been going at this for a while now and I know you have been 110% focused on your WW. It is OK and actually helpful to take a step back once in a while and take care of yourself.

What would make you happy today (unrelated to your WW's behavior)? Do you have hobbies or other interests? Go buy yourself something reasonable. I'm telling you, it works wonders. I bought myself a nice set of Bose Ipod speakers. Got some new clothes. Heck, I may even go get a massage this weekend. Do something nice for yourself. It sort of recharges your batteries.

So what are you going to do for you?

Saphire - I read your post last night, went home and did the opposite. I brought up the A. Stupid I know. I made a smart a$$ comment about running off to marry an addict. Of course that made her mad. She said a lot of hurtful things. I got my self back in line and didn't loose my temper or lash out. She continued to hurl everything at me for a while but when I didn't fight back she eventually calmed down and we ended up having a relationship talk. For a smart guy, sometimes I'm not too bright. Anyway, she told me that she would marry him if he wanted to. She was not ever going to change her mind about divorcing me. She said her relationship with me was toxic and that she couldn't be healthy emotionally until she was no longer controlled by me (ie divorced) The use of the word toxic made me suspicious that she might be reading this post but maybe it was a coincidence. She said she has decided that she will let go of her anger and resentment toward me for my years and years of emotional abuse after she finishes this process, but not before. She told me she gets fullfillment from her relationship with OM. I explained that I was still providing some of her needs, and at some point after she moves on she may realize they are missing. She conceded that that was true, but I wasn't sure if she was really agreeing or if she just didn't want to argue about it. She said that if I just signed the papers we could move on with our lives. I told her that I would not discuss a divorce, I did float the idea of a separation. She didn't sound interested. She threated me with loosing the house and kids if I left it in the hands of a judge, so I should just sign because she didn't want the house or my money. After we talked, she felt like our conversation was really productive. That made me nervous because we have opposite objectives. If she sees progress, it was a setback.

I still haven't come to terms with the possibility of not seeing my kids half of the time. That was bad enough when they would be with their mother. Now I have to worry about OM and his demons. I need a better plan of action.

Sick - you are right about doing something for myself. What i need is a little break from this situation. The problem is when I am away, she is with him or on the phone with him. So I can't relax because I am thinking of them together. I need to spend the day with just me and the kids. WW would love that, she would be free to do whatever. I guess I will settle for a haircut on the way home.

Today I'm numb.

Sot - just quickly read the thread.

Two important things to do today/tonight asap:

1. Get a dr appt for anxiety meds
2. Buy and carry a VAR at all times.

Have you been to a doctor? It seems that you could use some anti-depressants or anti-anxiety medicine to calm down. Plan A is hard work and it takes a toll on your mental health.

Just so you know - you are experiencing a severe emotional abuse and your fears are paralyzing you.

Have you discussed the situation with your lawyer?

Here is one thing you must do now asap. Get a VAR - Chrisner was right in the beginning - she came back under legal advice and her goal is to get you out of the home. One false call to the police - your outta there and may never get back in the home.

Get the recorder and keep it handy on your person at all times.

As for the children = they are approaching the age where they get to decide where to live if this goes to divorce.

Your problem is that being a husband and father - you dont have the same leverage as the WW so you need to protect yourself and continue to cause friction in affair land.

winger - I thought about the meds when this began but I put it off. I don't like the idea of it but I realize it may be neccessary. The last couple of days were tough but I feel decent today. I am having lunch today with a psyciatrist I met in the prayer group I recently joined. Maybe, I'll ask his opinion. I've thought about my fears paralyzing me. I'm not sure. I feel like I'm on the bus and WW is driving. We are headed towards a cliff but I don't have the ability to grab the wheel to change directions. I only have a couple of options. I can try to show her why she should steer clear of the cliff (Plan A) or I can press the accelerator and get it over with. Since, I am not ready to go flying off the cliff I am chosing not to press the excelerator. Though fear may be a factor it has more to do with my love of WW and family. I don't want this future for any of us but not because I fear it. It is a future with far greater potential for additional peril, especially for the kids.

Yesterday was somewhat uneventful. WW texted me during the day saying she hoped my day was going great. It was nice to see some general care for me. After work she asked if I cared if she went to TF's for girl talk. She was going regardless, but she asked. She offered to take one of the kids or said I could stop by to prove she wasn't with OM. I didn't resist. She left and I went to bed early. I needed the rest. I'm up for continuing Plan A for now, that is all I know.