So, I know I've read somewhere on these posts that even SH says that an affair would end his marriage.

An affair is a HUGELY traumatic experience, so much so that SH says he has counselled a couple who has lost a young child, and still the pain doesn't compare to that of an affair.

So in the interests of getting his comment straight, do you think it's because of the trauma that his marriage wouldn't survive, or because he has all the tools that most of us don't to build a happy marriage, and if an affair STILL happened he wouldn't know how to save it?

It was actually not Steve Harley but his dad Willard Harley.

Oh - I thought someone said it was SH. Well, same question applies.

We all set our own personal "deal breakers". I think that one is his.

Certain things are deal breakers for me.

I would NEVER stay with a drug addict..I have ZERO tolerance for drugs.

A child outside of the marriage is another one. That would be intolerable to me. The ultimate betrayal, if you will.

We are allowed to set our boundaries and once they are crossed we have the right to act accordingly.

Again...just my personal opinion.

committed

I believe the statement was credited to Dr. Harley (not Steve) although I have never seen that source.

I have always personally thought that it meant in a strong boundary, affair proofed marriage that diligently follows all the MB concepts (as I assume the Harley�s have), if one of the spouses still chose adultery, then that person is irretrievably broken.

I would agree.

My H and I had an agreement that if either one of us had an A that would end the M. Well, as you know, that didn't happen. I think it's easy to say what you would do in some situations when you're not actually in them. For example, I'd like to think I'd run into a burning building to save someone. In reality, would I? I don't know - I could just as easily fall apart and run screaming up and down the street for someone to get in there and "save that person!"

As for Dr. H, maybe that IS his dealbreaker and he knows it as surely as he knows his own name. It does puzzle me, though, that he has seen so many Ms overcome an A, and he believes that he couldn't/wouldn't overcome it in his own sitch.

Has there ever been a devastated betrayed spouse show up here that was living the ideal MB concept marriage of His Needs Her Needs, PORH, POJA, undivided attention etc.?

Usually we don�t know any of this and that�s how we get here in the first place.

If I had the kind of hard working marriage described above and was still betrayed, I would not attempt any recovery either. The wayward in that marriage would have to be a world class narcissist.

...although I should add to my previous post:

I will never, EVER go through this again. Never. The hell I have gone through after d-day is unlike anything I have ever experienced. So I guess I have my own dealbreaker that I know like I know my own name: I will never again go through the heartbreak and psychological torture of my H having an A.

As a matter of fact, I told H that, if he ever considered having an A again he was to immediately come home and kill me. Death would be preferable. That made him cry.

Seriously, I would have his bags packed and at the door so fast, moving companies would be fighting to hire me.

Amen, sister. I feel the same, and my FWH knows it. I will NOT allow myself to be that devastated again.

This is a really great point. We can all prognosticate and opine regarding what we WOULD do, but the fact of the matter is that it would be nothing more than speculation -- and that ALONE makes it easier to offer what we "would do". Because we may not be IN a certain situation, deciding how we would react to it is easy because that decision has no consequences or ramifications. It's just "what if" scenarios with which we get to tinker and futz. And then we get to put them aside when we tire of them -- and then we can just go back to our "real world".

The idea of actually coming to terms with an affair has more baggage than an overbooked 747. Not only do you get to process emotions for which there is no frame of reference, you get the added "pleasure" of making significant, potentially life-altering decisions in direct response to the trauma that has been inflicted upon you.

At least now I know how I'd react to the A scenario. I haven't had the burning building situation foisted upon me yet, so I guess I should refrain from how that one would play out.....

And mb, I loved the packing/moving company line.....

TBC

Aw, thanks, TBC

TBC, I agree with you completely. I wondered this too - that it's very easy to SAY how you will react until it happens. I would never have thought that I would have stayed in my marriage for two seconds after discovering an A. And yet, here I am, working my butt off to build a happy future with WH.

The only way I can really understand Dr Harley's comment would be if, as was said, he had the marriage that we all strive for, using MB every day and really connecting with each other, and an affair still happened. Then what would you do? There would be nothing to build on, I suppose.....

I agree with the "who knows" philosophy.

I always thought I'd be out the door and into the lawyer's office like a shot if H cheated on me.

Then he had an EA and here I am...still here.

Now I find myself saying that if I ever found out that had gone PA or he has a PA, I'd be out the door.

I still think that is true, but again, until it actually happens? Who knows for sure.

I guess I was the flip side of the scenario. I imagined that I would fight on, so to speak, knowing that there was a pretty high likelihood of a PA situation.

That being said, once the realm of possibility morphed into the cold, hard face of reality, and I allowed myself to truly process my feelings, I knew it was 'Game Over'. And NOT merely because of the impact to me, but just as importantly due to the impact on the kids.

I realize that every person here, and every wretched tale told here, is different. And because of those facts, walking out that door is no more righteous than staying put, shutting that door, and turning the deadbolt.

I marvel at the strength involved with leaving and never looking back just as much as the strength involved with staying and fighting for the cause.

Different. But equally admirable......

TBC

Most all of us said that before the fact. It just goes to show that no matter how much Dr. W. Harley knows about our situations and how to fix them, he does not have the personal experience to know what he would do.

I never thought about or said what I would do if WxW committed adultery. It never occurred to me as a possibility. Wayzilla however told me several times during our marriage in very explicit detail how she would react if I strayed.

It was usually while we were on the couch watching some Hollywood adultery drivel and she would turn to me and say, �IF�YOU�EVER�.DID�.THAT�TO�ME�I'll....� fill in the rest of the sentence with references to knives, razors, pruning shears, loppers and so on.

So she committed adultery and I tried to save the marriage. Didn�t work out. But I have no inclination to ever do that again. There is no Plan A or B left in me.

Interestingly, I once saw a thread on the Evil Site that talked about this same subject from the wayward wife perspective. Many there said that they believed as soon as their husband discovered their adultery they would immediately leave. Others said they thought they would immediately kick out their betrayed husband. (gentlemen take note!!). They too were generally surprised that when D-day arrived most could not do that. However none stated they stayed to work on the marriage. In my opinion, although none there made this conclusion, they stayed because reality finally arrived and conflicted with the fantasy OM sole mate plan and they really did not know what to do.

I did the attempts at recovery this once, and now I KNOW I will never do it again. It would break my heart to turn my back on my husband (whenever/if that happens), but I would. I have never experienced more pain/hurt/frustration/stress/fear/nightmares/add whatever other horrid thing you can think of here...in my life.

I do have MORE tools to make for a better marriage, but I'm not perfect, and WILL screw up again...because not all people are the same either. So, I could apply what I've learned to my new marriage...and still not hit all the right marks. It takes the other person showing you where the bulls-eye is, and giving you the time to practice...AND SCREW UP HERE AND THERE...and then it's on to the next thing.

Also, if your spouse refuses to use the tools..or any tools and gives you the "This is how I am...accept it" speech...you are behind the 8 ball.


Adultery sux.

It's not that he can't save his marriage it is that he won't save his marriage.

Many a H has said this before they became a BH. For some they did what they said they would do. Many have stayed and tried to recover their marriage.

Talking about how one would handle an aversity in the future and having to handle a real case are not the same.

FWIW......

15 years ago a dear friend of mine's H had an affair and an OC was born. (They are still married and have C of the OC.)

I said...."I would NEVER stay with my H if he did this to me!!"

Famous last words.....

Dr Harley added that he wouldn't know what he would do until it actually happened.

That being said, many people do choose NOT to save their marriages and there is nothing wrong with that. There is nothing wrong with choosing to end the marriage.