Thanks, Stella. I appreciate your brutal honesty, usually.

He flat out told me he was not lying to me and gave me his reason why he did not tell me about Slutbag.

My question to this is: Now What? I really need help to form a response. I need change and I need it now. Problem is, he made it clear he does not have the time right now. Next week is going to be even worse than these past 2!!

What about that lie he told about staying a couple nights with the dirtbag friend? You know the friend that told him to lie to you?

I will defend him on some points, however.

My H took over this school this past school year. He was very motivated and determined to make it a great year, build morale (they had the same principal for many years and not well-liked) and let his staff feel like they were all on the same team. This is very important to him. This is one of the best schools in the state and the bar was already set high. Then these gigantic budget cuts came and many, many, crucial changes were made. I support him as best as I can. I still let him know my feelings, although it is really hard because I do not want him to feel even more overwhelmed. I have sympathy for his situation, because I empathize with my H. I feel this is a good thing. If I stop that, what good is that? I will not make that mistake in this M. I did that with my ex H and it allowed our M to fall apart.

He replied to that, as well, Stella. Did you read his second reply? He claims it was just chit chat and that he has no intention of going on the trip and that his friend KNOWS he will not go, so he was "jokingly" telling him to lie to me, knowing that he won't. Sometimes, I have to take things at face value.

I think you should do a little bit of research on boundaries and what they are. You are not setting boundaries if he can 'sail right over' them. You are letting him walk all over you and not giving him consequences. (Not punishment, but consequences, there's a difference).

I'll see if I can find some links on boundaries but it might not be till later tonight - got a full evening tonight....*sigh*

My mom emailed me a few times and I had no got back to her because I am in a funk, so she emailed again today asking me to PLEASE email her back (she misses us, she was unemployed for a year and recently got a new job). I let her know nothing has changed, H is still working a ton and that as soon as school is over, he wants to go see Loser Friend. Her reply:

I am thinkin when school is out.....he should be thinkin of spending the time with you guys...to make up for all quality time not spent....that should be his 1st priority......not havin to see Loser for Gawd's sake! Maybe Loser later down the road. Feel for ya! Dad worked alot too back then and his free time or vacation time was fishing with the guys! Just not family men!


I guess I did marry my father in a lot of aspects. Makes me want to puke on my shoes at that comparison. I do not think highly of my father. Rather indifferent.

Oh brother I simply couldn't pass up not posting a reply here today!

I have heard those EXACT same words....remember I have been married alot longer than you and the IB has been going on the full 20yrs in my case.

When your H tells you your his 1st choice he is not being truthful....I would point this right out to him....as he states his TRUE wishes which are not to be with you & the kids but to be with his friends....he associates stress free time with his buddies and more stress/work with you and the kids...it is his mind set and my H has said and done these exact things for 20yrs.....you can explain it and ask until the cows come home but that dog still won't hunt.

When I talked to Dr.H on the radio show he told me I had no leverage....it sounds like you have none either in your H's preception anyway....gaining leverage may be the key for you also.

Reading his reply to you and his "reasoning" is so familair to me....my H said the same things...they say it this way as it JUSTIFIES them running off and doing their IB activites and leaving you THE BABY SITTER stuck at home....it's really funny but sad at the same time...they think your stress free at home with the kids and that they are the only ones needing stress relief time! incredible! With me I was the only one 24/7 so H wasn't around period for weeks at a time for yrs....so that fuels more emotional detachment from the wife/kids and who ever your H spends stress free time with gets to make huge love bank deposits and I believe that includes friends or relatives (in my case H's brother).

The only way to stop this in my mind is to have a baby sitter no matter what....YOU are not his sitter so he can go play! You go play together or nobody gets to go play! and when you 2 go out to play it must be stress free and FUN....just like it is at that buddies place....no relationship talk...just fun times and relaxing....finding something to do that brings that about for both of you.

I am gonna be straight up with you he isn't gonna think it's possible to actually have FUN with you like he has with that buddy...he is comparing the time spent with you to that guy...it's the comparison effect your up against here...trust me on this I know as it's my BIL in my case....and yes men friends can actually pit their friends against their wives....he enjoys his time SO MUCH with that guy that he doesn't care how it is hurting you or missing out on being with his kids....that relationship needs to GO...once you get the LB book read the IB chp's FIRST....the Independent Behavior, Friends & Relatives then Careers/Time Management ones.

When dating my H he had 2 horrible friends I disliked on the spot...I thought they had to GO right away....they were drinking/drugs and so on...wild living no good for nothing kind of guys...fighting and all kinds of stuff...I couldn't believe they were his friends to be honest! I prayed for GOD to remove them from his life....yep that's what I did....and something happened...my H (still dating remember) got a DUI from hanging around with these bad influences....his brother was in the car with him also....lovely...and he couldn't drive anymore....so he had to move from home...away from these friends/brother to live clear accross town by his job....so he could walk to work....since they were all bums with no job or money they were upset he was unavailable to them....their cash cow was to far away and the relationship died...but the brother well he ain't going anywhere.....not his fault...that's my H's fault for putting this brother before me his wife time and time again....that's over with in my home...I WILL NEVER TOLERATE THAT AGAIN AS LONG AS I LIVE...I will flat out leave him in a nano second if he EVER DOES ANY OF THOSE AWFUL THINGS TO ME CONCERNING THAT BROTHER AGAIN EVER.....you'll come to this place one day also....I hope it's sooner than later....your H needs a wake up moment right away or you'll be like me at your 20yr anniversary....it's awful...please don't let that happen....you deserve better....I am rooting for you!!!

Thank you SO much for helping me.

I have researched and from what I have found, I believe my H will still view a consequence as a punishment (or threat) I am enforcing. Therein lies my problem. *Sigh*

You should not make excuses for him, and that is what this is, here. HE brought the drinking back in to his life. If he committed to quit and failed, the responsibility is HIS, NOT NOT NOT the stress. If the stress is too much he needs to change his environment. HE is responsible for picking up drinking, not the job. HIM.

This is you further enabling him. Allowing him to not take responsibilities for his choices. I like how Bubbles translated your letter. You are ALLOWING him to treat you the way he does. You are sending him signal after signal that it is ok, then you are upset with the results.

Boundaries G.... boundaries.

Thank you, Gem! I am happy for you and that you no longer have these situations in your life!

Hi resentment towards me for not liking his friend is pretty intense. He will tell me that he thinks I am not liking him ON PURPOSE just to have control over what he does. What a crock of crap! When the guy got married and then got a DUI, they would count down the clock for an entire year for when he could legally drink again. Really? That was not a wake up call AT ALL - now the guy just has a wife to drive his drunk a$$ around! I have no idea how this woman can not be totally miserable. I understand why she likes my H so much, because my H is 10 times easier than hers, if you can believe that! She ENJOYS it when my H comes over, because then at least she doesnt have to wake up their 2 yr old from sleep to go pick up her loser H at a bar. Well, actually, they moved within walking distance of a bar, so I suppose that sure helped (insert eye roll). Blech!

Again, I still have no idea how I am going to make these changes. My H is going to put the brakes on full speed if he feels I am trying to control him.

I agree, I really do. I have tried to talk to him about it, and he just ignores it.

Want to know why he quit drinking? Because he became THIS GUY and it freaked him out: he got drunk when we had friends over and fully made out with one of my friends, and then tried to initiate a 3some between us.

There. I said it.

The last time we went to MC, he begged me not to tell our MC, so I didn't.

and now I just ruined the possibility of ever bringing H to MB and these boards because he will only care that I told you what a jerk he is, and we will never get to the root of our issues.

I'd like you to see what you're doing here. You are saying that your feelings aren't as important as his job. If YOU feel that way, is it any wonder he does too?

G - I'm so so sorry. I don't want you to think I'm bashing you or anything. I really want things to be better for you. Look at gem, she is where you are headed. He is associating fun with other people, not you - and you're aiding that.

You need to sit down and have a come to Jebus meeting with him. He WILL NOT change unless he decides to. He won't even admit that his affair two years ago was an AFFAIR!!!!

That's why he's not sticking hard core to his EPs, he doesn't believe he needs them, he'll just stick to them to appease you.

Your marriage is no where near recovered.

You need to decide if this is a deal breaker for you, because the way you are living now, this is the best he will ever give you, unless he decides to change. Can you live that way? for the rest of your life? Can you raise your children with that?

The only thing I can think of is maybe a Plan B is in order. I would advise counsel with the Harleys though, if not the coaching center, then really consider calling in to the radio station.

WoW.... G - this guy is another affair waiting to happen. An EA, making out with a friend, resumption of drinking... and by not telling the MC, you've ENABLED him. You've spared him the consequences of his infidelity. You're keeping his dirty little secrets.

I'm thinking exposure.... he needs to feel the consequences of his actions...

wow... just wow...

I will consider calling in, certainly. I wish I could afford the $ for actual counseling with the Hs.

Can I live my life like this? Pfffffffffffffshhshshss, bah. I guess so. I do not want to be divorced again.

My deal breaker is if he cheats again, in ANY way.

I cannot Plan B him. Well, I am choosing not to. I am not strong enough. He will refuse to leave, even if I wanted him to. I know this with every fiber of my being. Funny thing is, I used to view myself as a very strong person.

I love him more than I love myself, which is pretty obvious.

All of my friends know, my mom knows. His mom could care less - she hates me anyway (because I took her from him, in her eyes). Do you really think his FRIENDS would care, one way or another? I am sure he would get a high five and a cheers with a beer can.

WTF! OMGoodness....WTH!......who cares if he ever comes here....don't worry about that....he has twisted it so much that he has you protecting his awful behavior!

You shouldn't have done this or agreed to this....you must explain to him you will no longer cover/lie or decieve for him in front of this counselor or anyone else about his EA or his 3some attempts.

You must also not think that your feelings/needs should come in last to his job....life/jobs will always have stress....always...there will never be a perfect time for you to tell him your feelings...if you wait for this perfect time it will NEVER come and he can run around neglecting you and the kids destroying all love & respect you have for him totally....as Dr.H says you will grow to hate your spouse...believe me he knows what he is talking about there...the longer stuff like this goes on the more resentment builds up and instead of love you feel hate....it's awful.

Oh, and he blames me because upon my acting like a complete insecure freak when I found out about the EA, I told him about a sex dream I had that involved another girl. He LOVED this, and we brought the idea of a 3some into our bed during SF. It was fun, it felt harmless, we knew we would know actually DO this, though he enjoyed it when I talked to my friend about it (the one I had the dream about - she lives in NY).

So, even though he was remorseful about his actions and he went into a deep funk for a couple of months following this incident (and quit drinking cold turkey and even got an AA sponsor), he still did say to me that I was the one that brought this "idea" about, so I was not blameless for what HE did. Yeah.

I had a BIG talk with my friend he kissed. She thought that he was trying to get something going between the 3 of us, and that excited her. She had recently had gastric bypass surgery and lost a TON of weight. She had never been thin, and being 32 was just coming into herself sexually because men never wanted her before. She is moving away, so we won't be seeing her again.

Can someone please help me form a response to his last email? I really would like to get that started. Please. Obviously you can see I need help here, and I have not yet received my LB or FILSIL books...

Gdar,

I have not read but the last couple pages of your thread but boy does a lot of what you wrote sound familiar. Your H is very immature in his thinking. He is a married man with children. He is an adult with responsibilites including a job he signed on for. His choice of friends speaks volumes about the way he thinks. He is on the fence about being an adult. My H spent most of our marriage being like that. I was that "single" mom while my H went out and I stayed home. Boy did I come to resent that.

What I read from your emails/conversations with him is he is used to using blameshifting, gaslighting, your fear of him leaving, and guilt to control you and keep you in your place. You need to take this power away from him.

One more thing, gdar. Boundaries are for you not him. If *you* set a boundary then it is up to *you* to enforce it. IOW, if you say you don't want him to go to strip clubs and then he does...you need to know ahead of time what the consequence will be. It could be you pack his bags and he has to leave. It could be that you ask him to move our of your bedroom for a week. Whatever works for you, you need to decide ahead of time what behavior is unacceptable and what the consequence will be and then follow through. If you don't follow through you lose your credibility.

Remember this...we can only control ourselves and our own behavior but we do not have to tolerate someone disrespecting us.