I posted originally in the "In Recovery" section". (See my comment at the end of this post)

This is a great site and I commend all of you for being willing to share and those who are willing to help. I am new to the site but have read quite a bit over the past four to five weeks. So far it has helped me to handle the recent D-Day I experienced. I think I am past that phase and now am faced with a big life decision. Like many of you, I don�t have a big support group (unlike my WW) so I am climbing out of my shell to see what suggestions and comments this group might have. I appreciate your comments/suggestions.

We probably all believe our situations are the most complex and unique, present company included. While reading this site, I see many similarities but like a fine wine, it�s the subtle nuances that make it different. I will highlight some of the large issues and will fill in the details if some of you kind posters care to lend an ear.

This is my second marriage. First marriage history:

High school sweethearts; first love, first lover
Dated 6 years
Married 1983
D-Day 1991 (approx) Walked in on them on the sofa in
our living room
She broke off A but I was too na�ve back then to know the
importance of NC (didn�t have MB back then). He was a son
of a friend of the family so I saw him often afterwards.
Tried to R, went to IC and MC
Decided to separate 02/97
Decided to D 06/97
D 11/01 Final
DD22
DS17

Current marriage
Met 05/97
Started dating 09/97
M 10/11/03 (dated 5.5 years); second love, second lover
LDR (East Coast (her), West Coast (me), have never lived
together (long story), see each other every 4 � 6 weeks.
12/09 Began to suspect an A
01/10 Began to monitor emails and saw emails with some male
friends that made me suspect an A with possibly one or more
of them.
D-Day 3/24/10 � Had scheduled trip to East Coast (EC) and
due to suspicions searched house when I arrived and
discovered letters and cards to her exposing an EA and PA
that spanned from late 2006 to early 2008 ( I think) with
a co-worker, who by the way, is not the MF I suspected of
recent A.

I blew-up, calmed down (a little), wondered why again? (and now you can also see the reason for my username), discussed with WW and decided to try to R.

She immediately sent a NC email which I saw and was copied on. OM was terminated from her company in 08 (due to downsizing) and now works in another state. But he is still only a 3 hr drive away and not a cross-country flight like I am. OM is married with two young boys according to the letters I found and his FB profile. In fact, she had breakfast with him only two weeks before I came out on 3/24. Had even told me that day that she was having breakfast with an old co-worker.

On D-day, I confronted her that it was still going on but WW insists that it was "just friends" having breakfast and that she had stopped the A back in 08. They had only met a few times a year �as friends' when he happen to be back in town.

I have continued to monitor her personal email and cell and do not see evidence of any contact. According to WW, he never responded to NC email. I told her I will expose to OM's family immediately if she makes contact with him. I do not have access to her work email account. On a scale of 1-10, I am at an 8 that I believe there has been no contact.

I confronted her about A with her recent email friend. She denies and says they are �just friends�. He is part of a country dance group that dances weekly at local nightclubs. His emails to her stated he was having marital problems and he was going to file for a D. WW has backed off� friendship� and since she says nothing has gone on, I have been hesitant to insist on NC in this instance too. After doing so though, she told me that this �friend� and his wife have started showing up together (rarely did before) at the country dance and are �doing better�.

We spent the next two weeks together and began the R process. I read �After the Affair� and insisted she read it. She has read 80%. I discovered MB a few weeks ago. I sent her a couple of articles from it. No forum threads.

Then spent five tough weeks apart. I scheduled more trips back to EC and spent 2.5 weeks there and she came here for one week. I am going back again for 3 weeks (two weeks from now). I now for us to move forward we now have to resolve the LDR issue.

I am posting here in the recovery area because that is where I hope we are but may not be. My WW exhibits many of the signs of being defensive, not understanding the huge impact this has had on me. She is frustrated I can�t trust her more and that that I can�t just forgive and move on, etc. She says it ended back in 2008 and she is over it but like other situations here, the wound is very fresh for me.

I am trying hard to figure out how to move forward positively. We�ve had the typical good and the bad since then. My first question is that in my search I have run across a book called �Not �Just Friends��. It seems very applicable to my situation as she has said that her A began as �just friends� and her email relationship with this other country dancer is �just friends�. She has a low self-esteem and I am not around all the time to help fill that EN to boost it. So I believe her �just friends� find it easy to fill this need and she doesn�t understand enough to protect herself (really our marriage) against it turning into more. Welcome any opinions about the book before I run out and buy it.

Thanks again!
_________________________
Me-51 BH (This is my second M. First ended by A)
Her-46 WW (This is her first M.)

Met 05/97
Started dating 09/97
M 10/11/03 (dated 5.5 years); 2nd love, 2nd lover
LDR (East Coast (her), West Coast (me), have never lived
together (long story), see each other every 4 � 6 weeks.
12/09 Began to suspect an A
01/10 Began to monitor emails.
D-Day 3/24/10 Discovered letters and cards to her exposing an EA and PA from 2006 to early 2008 ( I think) with
a co-worker.
Trying to R

-

So here I go again!

---
It was suggested I post in this forum instead. Before anyone jumps on me for my situation, I already addressed some of these in the other forum. I will address them again if constructive posters with productive comments feel it's necessary. Please look there first for my responses. I will try to copy them to this forum so I do not need to re-address them.

Here is my response to issues raised because I simply met my second wife before I was D'd from my first. Is that a sin? I'm sure many second marriages are to people who they knew and maybe were even friends with their to be second spouse while in the first marriage.

Hope this saves posters from having to find it in the other section.

---

My meeting my second wife before we decided to D in my first marriage had no bearing on our decision to D. I do not believe you need to be D'd before you can MEET a future spouse. We in fact live in separate cities and did not start talking a lot and then dating until after the decision to D. Plus, I had been separated already for several months.

The D took a long time to finish due to mediating and need for a forensic valuation of the splitting of assets from a business I owned.

Once a D was decided there was no further attempt to R. We had tried to R for 6 years. In fact that was part of the reason for the separation several months prior was that the R was not working. I believe one has the ability to move on with one's life at that point, doesn't one?

Here is my response to this post:

"Neither one here feels that the marriage is that important. Content to see each other every 4 to 6 weeks. Another red flag."

---

I said the LDR was a long story. I will try to summarize. The WW was supposed to move here after we were married. I did not want to move away from my kids. This was an agreed upon item before we were married.

Shortly after we were married her mom needed more care. First home care, then assisted living and now it looks like a nursing home. Her siblings do nothing to help and in fact hurt this process. Her brother was supposed to pick up caring for her mom as WW had done it most of her life. Her brother has completely failed in this role.

Then after I sold my company, figuring out what to do next has been tough in this economy. Tried a B&B but the seller flaked after 8 months into the process and I was living and running the business. Have started another company which is West Coast based. She wants the security of my income and benefits before she leaves her job to relocate.

All that said, my daughter now lives on the East Coast. My son graduates HS in one year and will be off to college. So, I had in fact started to look into me moving to the EC instead to resolve this issue just before D-Day. (I would be closer to my DD22.) I said in my post that I have a big decision ahead of me and know we need to resolve the LDR situation. I thought we were good but the A has forced this hand. I now have to decide if I still want to move now that this has happened.

There are a lot of issues at play here. I am confused, angry and frustrated. I have a lot of questions and the first was just to see if anyone knows about the book "Not 'Just Friends'".

I guess I have to defend MY actions first before I will get help?

My response to these posts. (Hopefully we are all caught up from the other forum...)

"Dating Future WW2 while still married to WW1.

Another affairriage.

They cheat with you they will cheat on you.

Neither one here feels that the marriage is that important. Content to see each other every 4 to 6 weeks. Another red flag."

---

Dear TheRoad...

Not everyone can have the fairy tale marriage of living together in the house with the white picket fence, 2.3 kids and a dog. In today's world, relationships have be flexible to handle situations with family and career. Yes, while a M is the important factor, the choice to have kids (family) and a career necessary to support that M all have to be balanced.

I see my WW more than people who choose to join the military and get posted overseas, choose to work on a cruise ship, or choose to live apart because they are offered a job in another part of the world.

I find the immediate need to jump to conclusions about the 'quality of my M' based on these decisions quite appalling, judgmental and frankly unwelcoming....

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2370240#Post2370240

Click on the link.
Read the links you fine there.
You will gain a basic understanding of the MB tools.

Good luck

Thanks Pepperband,

I have been reading here for the past 3 to 4 weeks. Finally decided to post.

I believe I understand most of the MB tools and concept. We have both agreed to a PORH and a POJA. We have filled out the Recreational Needs survey. Have started but not completed the EN survey. Have gone to one MC session and I am in IC. I have requested she also goes to IC and she is searching for one.

The thing is that you started out on rocky soil because you were married. I know you may have been emotionally 'un' married, but the knowledge of your marital status remains in your subconscious. It doesn't go away for the purpose of convenience. So you both - subconciously or not - entered into an A. It's that simple. Your WW had another A. Same principle. You might say "But we were happy" etc, but the bottom line is that your M was built on an A. Makes it harder to overcome the almost guaranteed second affair.

You "met" your current wife a month before you decided to call it quits with your first wife? What do you mean by "met" and when did it officially become "dating"? After you talked to her about your M problems while you were still Married to W#1, before you decided to end M#1? After it became physical, does that make it dating? Its an affair either way....Its gonna be a hard road for you, Good Luck...

What did it mean by met? A coworker of mine met her and she was interested in CA as she recently had a relationship with a guy there. My coworker introduced her to me as that's where I am from. She asked questions about CA mostly via email.

My marital situation was hardly discussed during this time. Not the main point of the conversation. I happened to be visiting her state for business in 09/97 and asked if she wanted to have dinner. We were now acquaintances. No preconceived thoughts of where things would go. She agreed.

After that, we started to get closer. and email and phone calls increased. My personal M situation began to be discussed more then as we saw were were getting closer. It was over by then with my FW. Given up after 6 years of trying to R. Thousands of dollars on MC. The MC in fact was the one who backed the idea of a separation as the last straw. I did not miss being with FW. Mainly missed being with kids. If the divorce could have been done in 2 days, that would have been great. Forensic audits of a business and asset mediation does not happen overnight.

Okay for the sake of semantics if you still want to say I had an A too then fine. Let's move on.

Yes, I know it will be hard road. That's why I'm trying to find out if this book (Not "Just Friends") will help.

Well then, it looks like you have it all covered.
Again, best of luck.

I feel like I am reading the anatomy of an affair thread right here in this post....

I have never read the book so I cant help you there...The link Pep gave you and the information on this website should be useful to you...I am not sure if there are many posters who will be able to help you here...Most of us would qualify this as an "affairage" and are just a little to raw with emotions from affairs to deal with your sitch....Maybe you could try counseling with steve?


Again, Good luck with your sitch...

Im not a pro by any means.

There are very expierenced people on this board that will help you. Even if you are in an affairage. You are going to take some serious 2x4s at first.

Show your willingness to work on your marriage and people will help. You gotta understand that NO ONE comes on here and just skims as an educational tool. EVERYONE here has had their entire life ripped apart by this evil. There are waywards on here that tried their best to destroy their M and people help them in the end. People like me are a hairs breathe away from losing their kids, their wife and their best friend because their spouses acted like an animal in heat.

Saying that here are some things I can tell you.

You are DEFINATLY NOT in recovery. Your wife is still very wayward and foggy. Still has a sense of entitlement that the A should be just forgotten. WRONG.

If you sweep it under the rug bookmark your thread because you WILL be back here.

A WS that wants to enter into a MB recovery is contrite. They have to be 100% transparent. They have to agree to answer all your questions about the A.

Lets say she is willing to do this. Recovery is going to be EXTREMELY hard with you across the country. To refill your love bank you are going to need 15hrs a week UA time MINIMUM. You simply cant do that across the country. You cant set up EP. Simply to make your M work you will have to move in with your WW.

If you dont meet her needs she WILL stray again. She already has the propensity for it. Ask any of the former waywards. If your not there to stop them from hitting the crack house they will be back on the rock again. Maybe not with that guy but some other one.

Best of luck.

Here is the BEST advise out of all the rest of the posters...

MOVE IN WITH YOUR WIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just realized you moved your thread over here, so I'll Xpost



So this marriage is not a top priority for EITHER of you. There are other things that are more important.

That's fine.

Just realize that if it isn't a priority, it cannot be saved. It has to be number one. Before work, before other family, before your kids.

The affair happened because marriage is not in that number 1 slot. Other things were more important.

If your marriage were important to you you'd have moved heaven and earth to be together. Obviously, some things are more important to her than you, and some things are more important to you than her.

Accept that your marriage is just not that important, and continue on as you have been going, and quit complaining about it. This marriage cannot be 'saved' or 'recovered' unless it gets moved up to priority 1. It just wont happen.

I agree with Sister Reed. People harp on the affairage issue because it reveals something very telling about your view on marriage: it only counts if you're in love and you feel like it. If you don't feel like it you can emotionally say 'it's over' and poof, you're back on the market- who cares about that pesky piece of paper.

So, why are you upset that your wife who you have never, in over a decade, actually lived with, has decided emotionally that she doesn't really feel like it anymore?

If you want to fix this marriage, radical changes need to be put in place. You are here as the result of numerous poor choices made based on the principle that other things are more important than your marriage. Yeah, how'd that turn out for you? You CAN fix this.

So how do you fix it? Quit with the excuses and move in together! Make your marriage your number one priority. Expose her affair, and make the drastic changes you need to to actually BUILD a marriage together. Implement ALL the basic principles of this site:

PORH
POJA
Undivided Attention
Care and Protection

That is what you have to do.

Will someone please give me a quick time line and recap of this guys marriages?

This thread is confusing me.

The wife of the man your wife had an affair with back in 2008...

the ex coworker...

Must be told and offered your proof of the affair your wife had with her husband.

It's the decent thing for YOU to do. It's a matter of YOUR conscious and not something your wife has any right to ask you not to do.

Don't threaten or forewarn your wife you are about to do it (lest she contact the OM who will intercept your contact and/or just call you a lunatic before it happens). Just call her up and/or send her a certified letter (with copies of the proof and a number to reach you at for verification). Do not do it annonymously.

Mr. Wondering

His first post on this thread has a summary.

You know, when I came here, I had been studying Marriage Builders for about seven years, and married for six. I knew the names for most of the concepts and had been an advocate for them elsewhere for many people.

What helped me was when people asked me what I was doing and I told them and they were able to show me, using the Marriage Builders concepts, what I was missing. The more I put those concepts into practice, the better my marriage got.

We had been to three counselors. Most of that was a total waste of time. And the parts that weren't really served to keep us from getting on board with this program earlier, which would've helped us all along.

1st M: 1983 - 2001. xW had A in 1991; separated 2-97; D final 11-2001
Began dating 2nd W 9-97, 4 years before 1st M is over.
2nd M: 2003 - current. 2nd W is WW. This couple live on opposite coasts, have never lived together as man & wife.

Deja met his future 2nd WW 3 months after separating from his 1st WW. Decided to D from 1st WW one month after meeting future 2nd WW.

Clear as mud?

Not everyone can have the fairy tale marriage of living together in the house with the white picket fence, 2.3 kids and a dog. In today's world, relationships have be flexible to handle situations with family and career. Yes, while a M is the important factor, the choice to have kids (family) and a career necessary to support that M all have to be balanced.

I see my WW more than people who choose to join the military and get posted overseas, choose to work on a cruise ship, or choose to live apart because they are offered a job in another part of the world.

There is no such thing as balancing your life with career, family, and a marriage. If you choose that your career is more important to "support" your family then your priorities are in the wrong place my friend. I actually heard the opposite, when parents dont think of anything else or "trying" to balance there life around their career actually DESTROYS FAMILIES!

How you balance your life should be the following...

God first! (when you love god and you make him first then everything else will follow, you will love your family, have a successful career etc.)

Family Second! When you make your family second on your priority list then everyone FEELS the love in the family, it will be a save haven for your kids to go to. When you make your career first they wont feel that love because they FEEL that your job matters more.

Career THIRD! When you have these things in order then everything else will follow. You will actually WANT to WORK better because you know that the first two things always comes first!

OK, so you are saying that you are trying to "balance" your M, kids, and career together, so...how is that working out for you so far??