Did you read anything I said? You are very brave but you are not dealing with the details. I'm worried that you need to do more to secure your future.

You are scared. And that is fine -- I understand that. I never ever said that was not ok.

I'm worried about you -- that is all I'm saying. You and I can work together to get the details complete. You dont need to talk to XH.

If you dont want to do it, that is fine. I'm just offering help. I know details and I know I can help you. If you are willing to face some uncomfortable details I can help you get this resolved. I spoke with a mortgage person and she said she can help.

You need to face the details. We are only doing what I know you've offered countless of people. What do you say when people get uncomfortable and have you face life facts? You tell them not to run and accept help. You dont run. Right now, you are. I'm sorry.

Cyndyk - Good for you for loving your mom enough to come here and give your input.

I'm kind of like your mom because it took me a long, long time to start recovering. And I doubt that I will ever be completely recovered from the mess my ex left.

The affair, followed by the recession really did a number on me. And while it is best to pick up the pieces and go on with life, some things cannot be changed. My finances and plans for a nice retirement were trashed. Our family is split into pieces.

Rebuilding is almost impossible, not so much because of the affair, but the years of lies, and the fact that one of my given children accepted her dad and the OW into her home.

Your mortgage solution sounds interesting, but the fact that Mulan was turned down for a mortgage makes me wonder. It is hard to refinance right now given the housing plunge.

If you can help mom, then write out a plan for her to review.

Then why has your attorney not advised you to get out of this Joint Checking Account?

Why do you not know how much alimony you where awarded?

Do you know when you alimony ends?

If you need help, let someone who has your best interest's in mind help you.

How?

Again, how... What of his are you being forced to clean up?

I just want to make it totally clear, esp to Mulan. I cannot even fathom going through this situation. I live far away so I didn't witness what it was like to live in that house. Only Mulan did. If it takes years to process this situation, that is totally fine and understandable.

However -- all I know is this: alimony doesn't last forever, you are taxed on alimony and the house needs to be re-finaced and the joint account and daily bills re-worked. The current situation is a mess and needs fixing -- so Mulan can get what she deserves.

When I hear the follwoing (paraphrased)...
-- I"m afraid XH is going to take the house from me and my son
-- I don't use the phone as protection (from XH possible calls)
-- Don't access joint account for fear of seeing what is going on
-- I don't want to hear XH name

... I'm just worried that Mulan is not ready to fully dig deep into the accounts, set them up, sign papers and fully read them. Maybe things are different now.

Again, that is fine and it is her choice to take as much time as she needs to resolve her feelings around this.

The banks, unfortunately, are not going to wait that long. Alimony runs out, taxes on alimony are due, or the house goes into forclosure (though likely not). I jsut want to make sure her financials are ok so when Mulan is ready to fully deal with them, they will be waiting for her.

I'm not trying to be pushy and mean -- I'm honestly worried for her.

PS
Yes, you are right the mortage thing is tricky. Nobody is getting loans, but the first time around, Mulan didn't give them all of her info, so she was denied. It might be different the next time. I'm not saying that I can make magic work with the house, but I can certainly try.

PPS
I've sent along steps and minor plan to help. I've offered to be her Financial Power of Attorney so I can dig deep and resolve these details (like the joint checking).I know this is higly upsetting to her so I thought I could take the stress off.

Mulan, your daughter is reaching out to help you - let her.

"When I hear the follwoing (paraphrased)...
-- I"m afraid XH is going to take the house from me and my son
-- I don't use the phone as protection (from XH possible calls)
-- Don't access joint account for fear of seeing what is going on
-- I don't want to hear XH name"

The above is all very familiar to me.

Mom's fears are justified, because this has been her experience.

Mulan, I agree...let your daughter help you.

Set up your own bank account. Make sure that every penny, to which you are entitled, goes into your own account. There is absolutely no need for you to see anything that your XWH does in regard to banking, other than that he makes the correct alimony payments to you.

What has likely happened to the money in the joint account is this: BECAUSE it is joint, what he puts in, he can take out. Let Cyndy help you get that straightened out. You are entitled to the retun of any alimony money that he later withdrew, IMO.

Yes, what he did to you and your marriage was horrible, but you are perpetuating your own victimhood by not taking control of your own life.

You are a beautiful and talented woman and worth far more than the likes of your XWH.

Take back your life. SHOW HIM THAT HE IS NOT ALL THAT!

Living well is the best revenge, Mulan, and I wish you to have a future full of happiness and contentmentl but, YOU have to do the work necessary.

Let your daughter help...and, BTW, it looks like you did an OUTSTANDING job raising her!

I never said they were not. Mulan needs more time to recover. From what I'm hearing, even getting a message from the attorney is a trigger for her. From my persepective, she can control those triggers by implementing a few things listed above.

As an outsider and someone not in that situation, I jsut want to protect her. I'm just worried that if she doesn't deal with them appropriately and quickly, she will continue, as she said, "be sabatoged" by the attorneys. Some of this stuff is easy to implement: you sign papers, research tax issues, create savings accounts to save for taxes, setup mortgage payments online. But that also requires reading the documents, engaging further with attorneys and be on the phone with banks, etc. Im not even mentioning the mortgage -- that could get very tricky.

Get this in order takes time, effort and will not be easy. Knowing how hard this is, I dont want her to subject herself to this anymore.

I'm really trying to help. I jsut want this part of all of this to be over for her. It really is the most important for her future. I just want to make sure she is getting what she deserves. If this drags out further it may not. Unfortunately, all of the letters to attorneys will not help. It will take a lot of her time, which I dont think she wants to give. On the one hand, I dont blame her. On the other, I'm worried about that.

I'm hoping that she is reading and knows that you are there to help her. That is the best thing you can do, offer help.

I don't know about your mom, but I know that I avoided lots of things, and didn't deal with them. It just seemed to be too much effort. Finally I snapped out of it, and have caught up.

Hang in there and don't give up on Mom. You are a good woman and I'm proud of you.

As someone who has been through this, I can't stress enough how important it is to get rid of that joint account!!! He can direct deposit into your own account. Or mail you a check. Either way, you can NOT let him have any further access to you - in any way whatsoever!

Waywards are liars, cheats and thieves. Yes, thieves. I would even wager that every MB BS with a chronic wayward, whether in plan A, B or D, has had their wayward steal from them - monetarily as well as the life blood that they all suck from you. Read Hope's thread. Read Holyheart's. They take, take, take, take, take and when there's nothing left, they blame you for it. Your balances don't add up - I guarantee he's taking it. This is not a hunch. This is a certainty.

You have no contact with him, yet he can see every transaction that you make. He knows everything about you. He can control you with this. All he has to do is make a big withdrawal and none of your bills are paid. Please, for your own sake, put a stop to this!!!

I understand that you don't want to look at the history. I don't blame you. Cindyk has graciously offered to help. Why don't you get her to print out all of the monthly statements as far back as the bank keeps records of. Just print them out, give them to your attorney or file them away. Don't look at them. Just have them. Then, withdraw all the money, remove your name and open an account in your own name. Have your attorney contact WXH with the details to deposit the alimony. Contact your mortgage and utility companies and anybody else who gets paid from that account and give them the new information. Then you can monitor your finances yourself, without fear of WXH ever seeing or knowing about it, and without fear of seeing or knowing anything about his transactions.

Please, please, please Mulan, do this. The thing that makes personal recovery through divorce a little easier than marital recovery is that there are very real, tangible benchmarks of your progress. Separating yourself completely from a poisonous WXH is one of those things. You have not done this yet. How can you expect to move on when you freely allow him to have this power over you?

(((HUGS)))

T1 is a voice of experience.

Mulan- you are holding onto nothing when you hold on to these accounts and problems. Your XWH is not going to feel sorry for you, or charge in on his white horse to straighten out your financial mess. Not now, not ever.

If you really can't deal with the account, or your counsel, to the point of your (and your son's) detriment- you are in need of anxiety medication.

Everyone who bothers to post is worried about your well being. We would not be helping you to say the "status quo" is OK. Is is apparent it is not.

You need help. Trust is very hard for you. Understood.

I agree.


Thats what I'm thinking.

100% true.

Even mean O'll, heartless me







Sounds like your daughter wants her mom back.
Sounds like you grandkids want there grandmother back.

I have an idea.

Instead of refinancing the house, sell it and move to be closer to family that care about you.

Just to note -- even if the attorneys setup the direct deposit, there are still a million details to be setup, like attempting another re-fi (and include the alimony amount, rent from people living with her, and printing out and providing bank statments from, yes, that old dumb joint account). Tax savings accounts need to be setup, and other items need to be signed.

Mulan will need to open up those documents and read them. Her attorneys cannot continue to read them for her, at a huge cost.

This.will.drag.out. I'm just not sure why Mulan would want to subject herself to that. Letting someone else take care of it allows her to NOT have to engage the attorneys any longer, not have to deal with any of it any longer.

If she is tired of being sabatoged, well, lets take steps to prevent that:
-- Change your home phone number. That way, XH's name will never appear if you are getting a credit card at a random store. That will cut down on that stuff.

-- Give Financial Power of Attorney to me and son-in-law. You've told mortgage people that you don't use a phone. If you need to protect yourself, still, do it. Let me do it for you.

If sabatoge is a worry for you -- why won't you accept my help? You will continue to be sabatoged little by little. Why would you subject yourself to that?

And finally -- let go. You never have to let go of the hurt. But try to stop letting XH rule your life. This situation has ruled ALL of our lives for 10 years. I'm tired of watching you suffer.

I'm sure the attorneys will do just fine. But it will drag on and you'll continue to feel terrible and send me long tirades about how XH continues to ruin your life. Stop. Stop. Now. Please.

Let me help you. Letting me help you, helps DS22. Letting me help you secures your future. Letting me help you stops most of the "sabatoge".

Think about it from my POV -- how would you feel watching me subject myself to this hell?

Well, you got MORE than you bargained for Miss Mulan!
You are being offered a BLESSING.
Please
Please
Please

Accept the blessing of HELP from your wonderful daughter.

What a wonderful, loving daughter you have Mulan!

Mulan, I was thinking ... I was thinking about how people always say that Plan B is for you. For your health, and your sanity. Not to recover a marriage, but to protect you.

Obviously every contact with this man tears you up. I hate that. He caused it to become this way, and that's horrible.

I don't know if you are officially "in plan B" or not, but I think that if you are not, you should be. Plan B this man for the rest of your life, to protect you.

And I was thinking that in Plan B, usually all talk of divorce goes through attorneys, and all other talk goes to a designated intermediary. The IM filters out everything that isn't pertaining to finances or custody arrangements or a small handful of other serious matters, and passes on nothing unless absolutely necessary.

Now that the divorce is final (am I right that it is?) it seems to me you ought to still have a designated intermediary. Everything that comes to you not through the IM gets trashed. The IM protects you from all possible contact with the wayward and you never hear from him again. If there's something you absolutely have to sign, IM brings it to you, you sign with a minimum of fuss and thought, so that memories of this man will not trigger you often.

If you don't have a designated IM, I would say you should definitely get one.

Mulan:

Your daughter is telling you what you need to hear.

Others here as well.

You have insulated yourself from having your WxH contact you. (turning off the phone, etc) And there are things that are going to affect you anyway.

You have to close that joint account. Move the auto payments to a new accountthat you set up, then take a check from the old account to fund the new, Have your attorney tell your WxH's attorney to make the deposit to your new account.

Alimony is TAXABLE income. You need to file a tax return and report the income, and then your other income, and your deductions. Understand something: Your WxH has filed his returns, and will have reported the amount of alimony that he claims to have paid. This may be different than the amount that you feel he has paid. Unfortunatly, the IRS will go with the higher number. Please take care of your tax returns.

LG

I'm glad your daughter is willing 2 help. Lawyers can be bad, good, or very good. But they're always very expensive, as well.

When we were dealing with my SIL's lawsuit I kid you not - every single email or phone call 2 our lawyer (who was on our side, after all), cost us a few hundred bucks. By the time we were done "letting him handle things", we owed over $5K beyond the $10K retainer.

So if your daughter is capable and willing 2 help you finish this off, you should take advantage.

I might also suggest you find a good financial advisor 2 help you with investments and setting up a living trust for your fu2re and for your kids. We did and it was probably the smartest thing we did (and it costs very little more than time).

-ol' 2long

Thinking about you Mulan. You raised a fine daughter.

Mulan, you still out there?