I agree with you Not, but this is MARRIAGE BUILDERS, not a recovery group for drug abuse. That's what the marriage needs FIRST. No amount of W2S working on marital recovery is gonna make a dent until LaLa is in her own recovery. W2S can clean and clean and clean his side of the street, but without proper direction from his spouse (clean and sober and owning their own stuff) then all of his work is for naught, IMO. Sooooo, talking about how they 'both' have work to do is moot right now.

For now, W2S just has to hang on while LaLa works her own recovery program. She can't direct him on how to fill her needs until she plugs up the holes that his efforts might be draining out of.

I wouldn't want to recover with someone who didn't want to recover. It's added insult to the assault already dealt.

ITA again SL, W2S just hang on until LaLa works this out.

It does not matter what W2S "side of the street" looks like if LaLa can not even practice EPs......

ITA.

The best way W2S can improve himself at this point is stop enabling,which he is has been doing beautifully.

If BOTH of these people have marital issues to work out, that won't happen until they are BOTH on a level playing field. Right now, LaLa is playin' dirty and trying to convince W2S that he should just suck it up (if that's the case...dunno cuz LaLa aint here). Wow, that is about as uncaring as one can get...outside of having another affair. Oooohhhhh, wait, LaLa did make contact with exes. Sheesh.

Hey MF (I love typing that! )

I went to Alanon and changed myself...I divorced because I knew that I couldn't accept things as they were and I knew we wouldn't get better until the Z stepped up. It was scary taking those first steps...but I am grateful that I did. Living in constant pain was....well....fricken painful

I know of a few people who stayed married to dry users and drunks. Sure, they don't drink or use anymore, but the poor boundaries and mentality of a user is still there, leaving the door open to hurt their spouse/SO. I just couldn't live like that. No amount of Alanon would keep my rage from building over the years...I know this about myself. It's painful to read about families dealing with substance abuse by just brushing it aside or acting like it's not part of the problem. UGH. And we, the enablers, go along and say "Oh well, pot's not THAT bad...it's not like it's heroine" and make excuses and blame ourselves for [censored] that isn't ours to own.

But have you spoken out against them, not2fun? Silence is the same as enabling with an addict. I will just tell you that as a former addict myself, I am very puzzled how you manage to remain friends under these conditions.

The only ppl who remained friends with me were the ENABLERs when I was using because the ones who really cared about me wouldn't tolerate it.

When I was an active addict I surrounded myself with ppl who would condone or tolerate my bad behavior. When I sobered up, I did not remember those fondly who sat by and either said nothing or outright enabled me.

Mel, you beat me to this by a minute. This is so true with addicts. I saw this in my three brothers, addicts all. The only friends they had were those that would not rock the boat.

The two now clean and sober have genuine caring friends and they have nothing to do with those former friends who would not get up and kick their butt.

It�s a lot like friends and acquaintances of my wife and me who knew about but never said anything to her against her VLTA. They did not necessarily condone it but they never condemned it either.

They are all cut out of my life. And to a person the losers still do not understand.

Oh puhlease.....this is so very far from the truth about me. I have made it very clear my role and my actions concerning Lala very clear. I have not been silent nor enabling.....your insinuations are out of line.

I have offered my advice both here and off-line. I've become a broken record. Call the Harleys....call the Harleys....call the Harleys.....I know for a FACT I am not the only one on here to have stated this.....

They will give them direction.....a PLAN......I would wager on this and I am not a gambler.....

I doubt that. A user will not tolerate anyone that objects loudly to their drug use so the fact that you are still even socializing tells me alot. We addicts surround ourselves with enablers and actively avoid the ones who really object.

not, I don't know you and I don't know your full role in all of this, being LaLa's friend; however from the little that I do know, I believe the enabling everyone is referring to is in your comments about W2S owning his part.

Really? He is living with and ADDICT and someone who is still very, very wayward in her thinking. There really isn't a lot to "own" and as Mel said, an addict will NEVER be happy with W2S's "efforts" ~ yet you seem to have fallen for LaLa's "woe is me, he isn't meeting my needs either" mantra.

I'm sorry to sound harsh but that isn't helpful at all...to either LaLa OR W2S. Do you see this?

not2fun, I promise you she will not remember you fondly when she sobers up. Anyone that was my "friend" when I was drinking was not really my friend because my real friends couldn't stand to watch that self destruction and listen to my wacked out bullcrap.

You might be telling her to "call the Harleys" [I have no idea why] but what have you said about her dope usage?

IOW, not...you are believing an ADDICT with a wayward mentality over someone who is neither of these things.

Not trying to beat you up but I'm sure when you look at it this way you will see what I am talking about...

Yes once again you are correct and i really did not mean that W2S should not clean up "his side of the street", what i was trying to get at is that if LaLa can not see what her behavior is doing to the M then it does not matter much WHAT W2S does because it will never be enough.......

SL,

I know this to be true. I tried to fake it for 10 months and it nearly sent me to the funny farm. I didn't change the dynamic in our relationship, LaLa did. Once I saw how dysfunctional this addiction made us, there has been no going back for me.

Want2Stay

SQ,

I don't know If LaLa will come here or not. I hoped that if she heard this stuff from someone besides me that it would get through, but I'm beginning to think I was wrong.

The FB thing was very painful. Fortunately, I've developed such a hardened heart from all the pain that has been inflicted upon me in the past 4 years that I bounce back quickly.

Want2Stay

SL,

Like I told Aph, I know the drill. I can't control this and LaLa is going to have to face it on her own. All I can do is be supportive and insist that she own it. It sucks being the one to hold up the mirror, but our boys and me deserve a wife and mother that has TRULY recovered from this addiction.

Want2Stay

Herein lies the problem. Taking a stand against this addiction is being seen as a convenient excuse to put ALL the blame on LaLa for our M issues. Because she was so out of control and so strung out at the time of the A, I couldn't possibly have met her needs. That is what Dr. Harley says. "It is impossible to meet the needs of an addict." It takes away LaLa's ability to say Want wasn't meeting my needs and that's why I did what I did. Problem is I don't care about that. What I care about is TODAY and the things that need to happen for us to build a happy recovered M from this point forward.

Want2Stay

Tst,

Wow...no wonder I've had the issues I have the past year.



Want2Stay

Not,

You seem to have gotten caught in the crossfire here and I'm sorry for that. I have absolutely ZERO doubt that you are in the corner of our M and are not taking sides.

Let me tell you my side of the story. I first confronted LaLa about this issue last August, 10 months ago. After spending 4 months researching and counseling with TMTS and a few others. I finally gathered the courage to approach LaLa with the way her drug use was making me feel. I went to her and pleaded with her to stop and help me build a better M. I offered plans, I was non-judgemental, I was as loving and caring as a spouse could possibly be and I was SHOCKED at her response. I was gaslighted, blamed and scoffed at for being triggered by it. Not, all I see when she uses is the person she became during the A. Someone capable of inflicting enormous pain on the person they vowed to love, honor and cherish. It HURT like heck.

So, I had set the boundary. Which she then proceeded to walk all over for 3 more months until I confronted her again. I convinced myself that she just didn't understand my point of view and with the time that had passed she would be more receptive this time around. BIG MISTAKE!!! Got another round of blame shifting, gaslighting and out right anger that I was expecting her to get clean. Which brought us to the confrontations the past two months. I set the boundary so how on earth am I supposed to enforce it? You know what having someone walk all over your boundaries does to you. It will eat you alive.

I truly believe that had I called the Dr. Harley the advice would have been nuclear exposure/intervention and plan b. Recovery in our M is not going to take place until this is dealt with completely.

This post and trying to get LaLa to engage is my alternative. You see even after all the pain and suffering she has inflicted on me, I still couldn't bring myself to blindside her like that. I love her dearly and I want a better M, but I'm not taking anymore more bullcrap. Like I told LaLa, I deserve better, our boys deserve better and she deserves better. If it means that she ends up hating me for taking a stand and defending our family.....so be it. Because finally, I'm able to look myself in the eye again in the mirror and know that I am doing EVERYTHING I possibly could to get this right.

The rest is out of my control and is up to LaLa. I can only control my actions and I'm going to stand behind them.

Want2Stay

W2S ~ why is she so afraid to come here?

LaLa ~ please come and tell us your side of the story. You know that we want your M to succeed, like so many of ours are.

It might be hard but it's worth it...I promise. Improving your M is your best option; it certainly can't be any worse than things are for you right now. It's obvious W2S cares about you and wants nothing more than a wonderful M...with you.

The hardest part is going to be to put down your pride. Please take that first step.