Hello all. Thanks for checking in. Nothing new at all because we were on vacation. Now it's back to the grind and hoping I get what I need soon.

WH emailed OW/ButterFace before we left to let her know he would talk to her when he got back. He ended the email with "See ya". See how he keeps it so innocent on email? Anyway, she is keeping her job and will be supervising the work he does with her company. She will also work from home on Thursdays and Fridays. This means it's the worst of both worlds. The original plan was to change jobs which would have her closeby all the time but not work with him. Not only will she be working with him but she will be closeby on the days he tends to work outside of his office. Convenient, huh?

Dirtbag Friend did text WH during or trip to tell him he needs to talk to him because he met someone. Seriously, where does this guy find all these women? Of course WH didn't mention it to me at all. I wish WH was as easy to catch.

Thanks again for checking in. You are a terrific group of people!

It is 'the worst' in that if your WH wants to continue in his adulterous relationship with this OW he easily can....however, you have MUCH more ammo than you realize and he will be easy to catch eventually. He thinks he is very very clever. I've said this before and I stand by it....those types get blinders on to the intel work going on around them because they think they've covered all their bases. He thinks he has you so snowed. Just keep up the good front and he will eventually trip up and you will have all the evidence you need to 1)help you decide what to do 2)prevent him from further gas lighting you 3)aid you in a legal battle if that is what you decide to do.

I know my view on your situation....and your handling of it, doesn't sit well with many MBs here...but they are used to a much different kind of WS. FTR, I hope I am totally wrong about him and the worst thing he does is talk fake trash to his DB friend. But I don't think I'm wrong. And you don't either Anne or you wouldn't be continuing this snooping for so long. My biggest fear is that he will not be caught before you baby arrives. You need this settled. (((Anne)))

I know what you're saying, but I think it's going to make your snooping easier. And if there really is something going on, I think this is going to be where you'll find out.

I forget - DirtBag's married, right? What's the story with his W?

I am very aware of this. I've been wondering if it's time for me to move on.

You're right, it will help me get what I need. Regardless of what some people might think, I am more than ready to get to the bottom of this.

Dirtbag is married and his wife could easily catch him. She's been given more than enough evidence on more than one occasion but she chooses to belive his lies. I will tell her what I know once I deal with my own situation but I don't think it will change anything for her.

Hang in there anne. I hope for you to get the undeniable "smoking gun" every day. Every time I see you update I hope it's the big one.

Thanks Chrisner, I hope so too! This is just such a surreal situation. Even my therapist is shocked by what is going on. I asked her point blank how many times she had come across a situation like mine and she said, "Never". She's been doing her job for 20 years. Not exactly comforting to hear from her but I'm glad she's honest. I think my problem is that the Dirtbag Friend is as much, if not more, of a problem than OW/ButterFace. Given that, it can be hard to negotiate my way through this.

SmilingWoman, I hope you are right and that he is comfortable enough to slip up and give me the proof I so badly need/want. I fully believe that I am doing the best I can given this strange situation. You have been so helpful and I really appreciate it!

What do you mean move on? Not from MB I hope......I live for your updates. You remind me so much of myself.

This reminds me of when I first came here and something that I posted got a response from Melody Lane along the lines of 'I think your husband is a sociopath.' This was before I discovered just how Wayward he was. I will never forget that. I've never seen her post such a reply since.


Glad to help. I am thankful for the help I got which led to me discovering the truth and I'm happy to repay where I can.

Acutally, that is what I mean. I get so much support from you and a few others but I know that my situation is not exactly fit for MB at this point. I'm not sure it's fair for me to be here anymore.

You have been more helpful to me than you will ever know. I'm always happy to see a post from you. Since you seem to have gone through something very similar to me (minus the presence of a Dirtbag Friend), your advice and kind words mean so much. The fact that you understand my need to know exactly what is going on before I confront has been comforting since I know that many people on here don't get that. My road to the truth has been a long one but I will get there. Thanks for helping me along the way.

Anne - I understand if you choose to move on from MB.

But here's the thing I hope you get out of your time here.

While there are certain conditions under which Plan A will not work (addiction, sociopathy), the "conditioning" that the betrayed spouse gets out of being on marriage builders includes the following:

• Determine what you want out of life and out of your marriage - clearly defined
• Determine what you have to do on your part to become the person who can live/receive that, independent and irrespective of what your wayward spouse does or doesn't do.
  
• Become mentally tough. For the time being, you learn to and choose to ignore the elephant in the living room while you put yourself through basic training for your head and heart.
  
• Get to it. Take Action. Whether it's weight loss, activity, income/job, domestic support, whatever is needed, you act on it
  
• At the appropriate time (You'll know when you're ready), continue these steps with the wayward out of your space (Plan B) in preparation for further measures that may become necessary (divorce).

These are the gifts of Marriage Builders for an individual recovery that may or may not become marital recovery.

For you Anne, you may or may not get the proof that you feel you need to confront him. But if you follow marriage builders for yourself, at some point in the future, you will become mentally tough enough to say proof doesn't matter. "I'm not happy with the sneaky deceitful NATURE of my husband" will be all you need to throw the switch and decide that your husband's character warrants Plan B, where he can choose reformation, which will include final and permanent no contact with Dirtbag, open access to his computer and cell phone and everything that he has in order to preserve his relationship with you. You will be able to look him in the eye and say, "I FEEL deceived - your actions make me feel UNSAFE and it's up to you to prove your innocence by changed actions - I don't have to prove anything to you."

Wouldn't that place be liberating to you in your situation?

You're so close to that already.

I hope you choose to stay and work this kind of a plan.

I have since discovered that WXH had quite of few DB like friends. He kept me from them all the time, but I'm hearing things about them now that really let me know he was running around with DB people....birds of a feather flock together and all that.

If you would like my email address just let me know. I'm happy to help. Hoping you get something definitive soon.

I have read this thread, Anne, and all I can say is that I wish you recovery, peace, and happiness. I believe your marriage is recoverable, because I believe (hope) that my own is. And I was so awful for so long. Your WH sounds like me, only not nearly as bad for nearly as long. The jury (my BS) is still out on my marriage, but I am working at it. Your WH needs this crisis and exposure and collapse of his secretive life and needs to learn that you are an amazing and strong, loving woman who wants to give him a chance to work this program and become a decent human being and husband. I have to believe there is a chance for him, because I am counting on the hope that there is a chance for me with my BS. If you get the info you need and break this, and he breaks down and becomes willing to work this program, have him read my threads. I think I can help him understand the things he needs to do to change and be the person you thought you knew when you married him.

Hi Anne505

I read your thread and felt compelled to encourage you to continue on. When I was unfaithful to my H I ended up meeting guys like your H and, more so, DB friend. The intellectual, bright, accomplished, professional glossy world. The guys I met (mostly married) were entitled, narcissistic, charismatic, very careful and unbelievably good liars. Often these never hid their wives and families. They regaled stories of their children, showed baby pictures and told of all the lovely things they do for their families. Declaring their undying commitment to their spouse but professing their love to some stupid OW. The self entitlement is galling. The matter of fact way in which their affairs were carried out were astounding. The matter of fact way in which grown women swallowed and believed the stories - pathetic. The history of affairs (often cheating over their many years of marriage) was/is shocking to me. Falling in and out of 'love' - ridiculous. It is, among many circles, an acceptable life style. I had girlfriends (and please note 'had') that on the surface of things, gained very nice things from the life style. Shopping trips, dinners out when the guy was in town, phone calls and texts, even being flown out to various destinations when the guy was on business. Even, on occasion, inhabited the same social circle of their wife!! These guys are low and slippery.

Now, maybe your H hasn't done all this but he seems to be in that world and very much influenced by DB friend. (Correct me if I am wrong).

I urge you to press on. Maybe your H will have a repentant outcome and turn his life around. However, for yourself, you must see this through. Many women compromise and settle through fear. They turn a blind eye. I totally understand why. However, only you have to know what you can live with. I agree with KaylaAndy's post.

You clearly an intuitive, strong, capable, loving and faithful wife. I sense you will not settle for second best. Your story does need to be told, so please do not go away. There are other women that are in your position and reading along. Not everyones journey is the same.

I don't know if anything I have said is of any value to you but I want you to know that I admire your tenacity and wish you nothing but the very best outcome for yourself and your growing family.

Take care.

Anne, when I was in the corporate world I knew a man like the above description. He was bigger than life to me...One of the owners of the company I worked for. I worked with him for 10 years. He locked his eye on me the day he walked in and hit on me hard for the next 10 years. I never fell for that bait but I am ashamed now to admit how much I admired his business mind and how flattered I was by his attn. I was 23 when he first came. He was responsible for my promotions. He often arranged for me to travel with him. One time after he walked by and made a particularly brazen comment to me, I asked a male co-worker standing nearby, 'Why does he keep doing that after all these years of being ignored by me?' This man said, 'he just keeps slinging it out there to see what might stick.'

Around the same time I met a woman, my age, who had known this man since she was a little girl. She knew him very well....knew all about his history. She was the one who really helped me see that although he was brilliant in many ways he was a DB. I've been gone from that company for 10 years now. Last week I had a long chat with that woman---catching up on the years----and we discussed this man. She still works in the industry and sees him often.

We talked about what a DB he really was/is and wondered how his wife has put up with it all these years. I don't want you to be that woman.

And although I have a hard time realizing it I guess that is the type of man my now XH turned into as he came up in the corporate world.

My friend told me that our former boss is really looking old and worn these days. And his wife is still with him....everyone thinking she is a fool. Their children are grown...they have grandchildren now...I often wonder how they feel about their life. Are they happy? Does she love him? Does he love her? Is he still actively cheating on her and hitting on other women constantly? I guess that is the type of man that keeps acting the way he did in his 20s and 30s even as he approaches 60! Wow.

Anyway I agree that you need to stick around. Your story IS worth hearing. I know there is a part of you that wishes you could go back to not knowing...just live your happy life with your husband who appears to adore you, raise your children, be a SAHM....I know because there were days just before and after I put the keylogger on that I wished I could just go back and not know. But that is not living an authentic life and I am glad I know now and that I am out of that mess.

You and your WH are young enough that there is the possibility you can expose him and that he will realize he needs to change. Either way you need the truth.

Thank you KaylaAndy. You certainly put that into the right words. I think you are right, I am so close. MB has been so helpful, I guess it would be stupid to leave now. Thanks so much for the clarity.

Wow, we have so much in common. I feel so stupid for knowing what DB was like and not realizing why WH is such good friends with him (BEST friends). I would love to hear from you on a personal level. I hope I get something I feel comfortable with soon. Thanks for always hearing me.

Thank you GreenMile, it interesting to hear from someone on the other "side" of this problem. However, I have no idea if WH will want to stay with me or if he will feel liberated once I confront and then will be choose to go live this lifestyle freely and openly. I don't know him anymore and have no idea what will happen. I do wish you luck in trying to fix on your marriage. I hope your W gives you a second chance.

I have already made the decision that I will not compromise and will not turn a blind eye (although some might think that is what I'm doing now). I know that is not the life for me.


Thank you for saying that, especially the part about nto everyone's journey being the same. I think some on MB tend to forget that there is no set formula for As and therefore, no set way to deal with them. I am not going away and will continue to tell my story and see advice. So thankful for all the wonderful people on here. Thank you for being one of them!