Huh? You can not see how they helped me, because? I guess I am confused as to your point. I called into the radio show, Joyce has called me directly, we have spoke for more than an hour.

Obviously I know how I approach it is ineffective. It is one of our issues and why I am here.

I am terrible with boundaries in my marriage. Oddly enough, I do well with outside relationships (family, my friends). I need examples, because I learn that way. Talking at me about how I need them, but not having ideas makes it harder for me, and frustrating for those here trying to help me. I know this, and I apologize. The examples I have had here, in my opinion, are extreme. I know myself well enough that I am not going to kick my H friend out, change the locks and Plan B him because of this situation.

So now I am facing two challenges. Basically Plan Aing my H for the summer, doing the best I can to get as much free time with H without kids as possible per Bill & Joyce, but also implement boundaries (that I have a hard time with) at the same time. I feel pretty pulled right now, and it is just going to take some time.

Yes, this, thanks Rosy.

Hi Gdar,

My example is not as extreme, but I once had some success with this situation by logically and honestly complaining in front of a friend that was not a friend on the relationship. Similar to your situation, my XSO had a friend that would come 1-2 times per month and stay the weekend with us (he lived about 3 hours away). I would get upset because 1-2 nights would turn into 4-5 nights and the entire time they would be excessively drinking, the friend would drag him to Hooters every day, they would spend a ton of money on food and drinks, my SO would ignore me or be rude, etc.

At first, I kept the complaints between me and my SO but my SO didn't seem to be able to tell his friend he needed to consider my feelings. So, after getting fed up with it, I started making my complaints in front of the friend in a logical and DJ-free way. For example, when they were getting ready to go to an expensive restaurant I said, "You have already spent $300 on food and drinks this weekend and yet you have not contributed any money to our mutual expenses this month. I don't think this is fair to me."

This was totally out of character for me and awkward for everyone but the friend did start coming around a lot less and also started bringing his girlfriend with him when he did come. Also, my SO wanted me to stop because he was embarrassed so I said, when you start addressing this stuff on your own, I will be happy to stop, and he did get a little better at it. The friend doesn't like me all that much after this but he didn't really like me before that anyway. I did work hard to make sure the girlfriend liked me, though.

I should also mention that for later visits I started planning activities ahead of time that I thought were fun and acceptable for all. For example, I would come home with a new Wii game the day before the friend was coming or talk to the girlfriend ahead of time about a movie we really wanted to see. The friend never went away completely but the situation did get more tolerable.

Nomander, thank you. I was actually in a similar situation with my ex H, and I DID speak up in front of the guy (but I did actually like him, he just needed some guidance of his own) and it improved.

The few times I have said something in defense of myself, my home, my kids or my marriage to this man, he either ignores me, gets pissed off and says something rude (this is not a man I EVER want to argue with, he can be really, really nasty). He did apologize once, though. I should try and remember that. Maybe I can state my own boundaries to his wife? I am sure she would understand. I cannot imagine she enjoys having a drunk H all of the time. I cannot imagine she enjoys having a H who ditches her every weekend to go off and play and leaves her home with their child alone. Poor thing had a great job as a teacher in a big city, gave it all up within 6 months to marry this guy and live in one of the poorest areas of our region and cannot keep a job to save her life because the school district is TINY, pumps out a baby they cannot afford (and maybe another one on the way) and her family lives back east. I wonder if she and I had a discussion and I told her how I felt about the way our Hs spend their time together, we could come up with a mutual agreement. Interesting...

thanks for sharing!

I highly doubt this woman would help at all....she may be VERY offended you don't like her H! and this friendship may be VERY important to her for other reasons you haven't even considered...you say she is a teacher....your spouse is a principal...maybe she is hoping to keep this relationship going strong and that means keeping her H and your H hanging out doing whatever they please...one day she may plan on your H giving her a hand up back into teaching...infact I bet this looser friend is counting on it!

Be careful here I doubt seriously that she will see things your way no matter how you explain it...JMO.

Instead I would focus on what the Harleys told you to....plan A your H for sure all summer and make sure to fill up the weekends with good friends and trips for just the 2 of you away having fun together....leave no room....no place for looser friend to fit in the picture at all....having them come over with these other friends is really not goona break that bond or hold he has on your H. You must find a way to leave them OUT of the picture and let time and their absence do it's thing which is to cause your H to enjoy life w/o this looser friend and forget about him....tough to do I know....unless they move really far away or die it may seem like it's a impossible dream. Remember: Absence doesn't make the heart grow fonder.....the goal must be for this friend to be off the radar screen....sorta like the NC that needs to be in place for A's..think of it that way...some "friends" are just toxic.

Oh one last note about that other wife....she KNEW what she was marrying....you can't put lipstick on a pig and call it a great guy...at the end of the day it's still a pig but she felt he was meeting some EN of her's or she was just so desperate to have someone marry her that she would settle for him...so I advise you to forget about her as someone to confide in...I believe it will backfire terribly in the end. For all you know she doesn't even mind her H being in the garage drinking all the time....at least he's not out driving or in jail...so your H represents a babysitter for him and she probably won't agree to busting that up...your H is serving a purpose to her and her H.

Gem, no. We do not live in the same town. Years back, my H did try and help her apply for a job in our city and she did NOT do the required work-up to make it happen. My H made it clear she had her shot and lost it, and he will not do it again. My H does NOT put his neck out or "endorse" people unless he feels they are 100% deserving, because he feels it would come back to him if it did not work out.

This loser friend is also in education and my H will give him good references OUTSIDE of our city, but he has not helped him in any way to get into our district. I am grateful, because if they lived in the same city, I might slit my freaking wrists.

Thank you for your caution, however.

I have no faith at all that this guy will fall off the radar. There is no way my H is going to go the entire summer not seeing him. Since he is also in education, his friend has the entire summer off and he has already tried to tell my H not to go to a wedding coming up for someone in my family because it is HIS birthday and HE wants my H to be with HIM - let ME take the kids to MY family wedding without him. I wish I could get him away, but it will not happen. I will fill this summer as much as I can, but I seriously have zero faith he will ever go away, unfortunately.

Bingo. They only knew each other 2 months when they got engaged and only saw each other on the weekends, then BAM, she up and let it all go to live in the sticks with no support system WHATSOEVER. I think they were both desperate to married. Not that any of this matters, just the way I see it.

Hi Chris,

Just saw your question. Unfortunately, I'm not sure whether posting a link on this thread to that particular thread would be against TOS, due to the particular unique circumstances. I'm fairly confident that you can figure out which thread (probably already have) and I bet you can find some posts from Mr. W that all basically say what I was referencing.

Basically, for more than one reason (lest anyone thinks this thread is about them... Carly Simon, anyone?) I've been having serious misgivings about how MB is sometimes *implemented*.

I'm reading the LB book. I love that that thread was started, and that I finally got around to ordering and reading the book.

But what I read in the LB book is NOT how I have been seeing MB implemented sometimes. For example, Dr. Harley made a point to warn against misusing LB labels, i.e. of using MB terminology as a weapon against your spouse rather than the proper use of MB principles to protect your spouse from harm.

This stuff is way more complicated than it seems at first glance.

Examples:
On p. 124 (in my copy, 2nd printing, Nov. 2008), Dr. Harley asks "Can Honesty Be a Love Buster?" He goes on to answer, in a nutshell, no. Dishonesty is the LB, not Honesty.

And yet the very next section says "Don't Wrap Your Honesty in Love Busters." The *way* you share your honesty must not be delivered in a way that is a DJ or SD.

Again on p. 146, Dr. Harley cautions against being disrespectful when identifying your spouse's annoying habits.

When taking up the fight against IB, the solution is not codependent behavior, or "clinginess." The solution is what Dr. Harley describes as *interdependency.* Starting from the bottom of p. 106: "If clingy dependency is viewed as the only alternative to independent behavior, they're probably right. But they ignore the fact that neither of those options creates a happy marriage. Only interdependent behavior helps achieve long-term marital satisfaction."

And on p. 185, he gives an example of abusing POJA in a controlling, abusive way. Like what Mr. W. called the "Poja-stick": in cases of abusive or controlling marriages, POJA is not recommended.

It is SOOOOO very easy to pick up on one concept and concentrate on applying that. Before you say "cherry-picking" you can be.

We are all mere humans. We can't instantly suddenly know all aspects of how to apply the concepts Dr. Harley describes, in all situations, with all the subtleties and nuances, all on the first day of reading about MB. It is very difficult to learn to bring balance to The Force. Er... to MB. (I heart Weird Al's Saga!)

IMHO this thread is very useful to me, in sorting out thoughts and ideas that I have, concerns that I have, that deal directly with if and how to apply the concepts described on this website and in the MB books to my own personal situation.

YMMV. If you think this song is about you, you're wrong. It's about ME!!! ME ME MEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEME!!!!!!!!!

All me, all the time. ME ME ME ME ME.
me.

BTW: It's *really* *late* where I am. So even if it isn't late in the time zone where I usually am, it's awfully late where I am now, and that's my excuse for being loopy.

(Aw, c'mon! Why won't someone figure out where I'm posting from, and accuse me of impersonating jayners cus jayners is in the U.S.??? *sigh* One time my credit card didn't question charges in 3 different countries in as many months... those were legit... but when someone stole my credit card info they were flagged and caught because they used it to buy *makeup* from a late-night infomercial!!!!! rofl My credit card company knows me... I may be anywhere in the world, but I'd never buy makeup from an infomercial!!!!!)

Anyway, how's this for MB-ness: Here I am who-knows-where, and I have my copy of LB with me!

I love that song.

And now when I hear the chorus, I think:

"I had some dreams, they were Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend, by Cloud and Townsend and...

You're so vain...

etc.

LOL

Ok, I'm up for 20 questions:

Are you on the North American Continent?

BRRRRRP! wrong-o, oh ye of little brain!

nyah nyah nyah!

Hmmmm...

Are you..

across the pond?

Are you on an isle?

Gilligan's Island?

That Professor.

And Mary Ann.

It was sposed to be just a three-hour tour...

Chrissy in No-Go? No comments? C'mon, I took the time to look up page numbers and everything!

Or maybe..

Can you tell me how to get to:

Sunny Day
Sweepin' the clouds away
On my way to where the air is sweet

Can you tell me how to get,
How to get to Sesame Street

Come and play
Everything's A-OK
Friendly neighbors there
That's where we meet

Can you tell me how to get
How to get to Sesame Street

It's a magic carpet ride
Every door will open wide
To Happy people like you--
Happy people like
What a beautiful

Sunny Day
Sweepin' the clouds away
On my way to where the air is sweet

Can you tell me how to get,
How to get to Sesame street...
How to get to Sesame Street
How to get to...

(or is it maybe, instead of SESAME St...it's

GARBANZO HUMMUS street?

HA!

Mary Ann!!!! YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ROFLROFLROFLROFL

Sorry.

All the research in the world will NOT answer that question.

But if you quote from that book too much, you'll tick off the Nanny gods in my state and it will be

BANNED in Boston.

Wow, that song brought me a smile!

WORD.

I'm hijacking my own thread.

Young man......give me that knife.


.................THWACK!..............

Thank you,