He needs to write the NC letter out of respect for YOU. Because he has harmed YOU. Believe me, he is capable of thinking about all their gross nasty times without writing a letter.

FH, it is a good start that your H agreed to the list.

The problem is that talk is cheap. What we are looking for are ACTIONS to back it up. What action could he take to show you he is serious?

~write a NC letter
~call Steve Harley (click the coaching center link above and give him the number)

if he doesn't do the two above, he is not serious, not even close.

Did you read what MF said to you above? I would reread her post.

You keep asking why you keep thinking about dday #2...Each FR is a huge setback and hurts the chances you two have at R. You two can't afford another FR. I see promise with your H, but you need to do your part here and raise the bar high.

Lastly, leaving your WH at home is a TERRIBLE idea. Your H is likely going through W/D. Leaving him alone is begging for him to contact OW. He needs accountability in these early days of NC. Take him with you.

fh ~ I really wish you had run that list by us before you gave it to him ~ you kind of jumped the gun there.

Honestly, after the NC letter (and it's VERY important that he does this rather than a phone call) I would have had the next item of criteria be that HE calls SH and has an appt with him before he even moves back into the house.

The rest of your letter is ok but things like "remorse" are quite arbitrary ~ what if HE thinks he is remorseful but you don't?

Re: the NC letter. There is a standard one around here and it's best that he uses that ~ it's very generic and he won't be sitting around thinking about anything, he just needs to write it out. Then YOU need to mail it, ok? Do not let him do this!!!

He really should be going with you to get the kids ~ why are you giving him another opp to contact POSOW? He should go with you and tell your parents himself, IMHO.

If he won't even do that you are off to a bad start and on your way to either another FR and/or a h*llish recovery.

Well OW called him over the weekend and OF COURSE he answered. We talked about it this morning and he admitted he missed her. He missed talking to her. Then he said that maybe he should have gone to stay with her (instead of the tent) to "get it out of his system". didn't I ask him to get out and go to her? YES. Did he listen? NO -- he chose to sleep in that darn tent! So now our children have to be witness to all of this.

Anyway, I told him the kids and I have errands to run. He is to come get a suitcase, fill it and NOT to come back for a shower or to change his clothes, etc. Over the weekend the kids and I will go so he can get his fishing stuff/boat (whatever).

He said that he loves me, but really hasn't wanted to be with me for the past 4 years. BLAH, BLAH, BLAH ... SO GO !!!

I will not, will NOT live with someone who is wanting someone else. I can't make him love me. I can't make him want to be with me. But he can't come back because he has destroyed his parents, or for the kids ... in several years, they will all be gone and it will be back to the two of us ... he has to be coming back for ME.

I am sorry to say this looks like the beginning of the end.

I deserve more than this

I think its the beginning of a solid plan B and personal recovery.

Glad you have learned your lesson but I am soo sorry that you had to experience it

We told you that he needed to MOVE AWAY! Not in his tent, we told you NOT TO SEE OR TALK TO HIM, and not let him come in for showers. I am so glad you are finally doing a GOOD plan B! This is what you should do no

And I HOPE you listen to us!

Change the locks

Write him your plan B letter AGAIN!

DO NOT CONTACT HIM!

Find a IM so he can see his kids

Do Plan B until YOU are ready to recover, because at this point you are frustrated, angry, resentful, and just fed up, so take this time to fix your self.

Think about your kids

Go to a counselor to help you

Change YOU for the better

DO not think about your husband and what he is doing!

Sorry again that you had to experience this the hard way we were trying to tell you

ITA with Sapphire. You cannot allow him to continue in his selfishness - he has been manipulating you into feeling sorry for him. You have been meeting some of his needs by remaining in contact with him during this crazy camping-out setup. He needs to see the cold light of day by going to Plan B.

Once you are able to accept that your H is a crack-addict wayward and NOT your H, you will be able to work the MB plans. A lot of your posts reveal that you haven't absorbed this yet.

We told you if you left him alone that he WOULD contact OW. I would have bet $$ he was going to contact her.

You have been teaching your H with your weak Plan B that you don't mean what you say...so I am actually not surprised that he doesn't take you seriously. (Hint: he thinks he can somehow keep his life with you AND OW.)

Plan B is a win-win for you. It's your best chance to end the A and even if it doesnt end, you will start to feel better by not having your WH around....

I understand wanting validation for your feelings. Believe me, I get it ~ but MB is all about plans and controlling your own actions. Forget about what your WH is doing for a while and focus on what you can do.

{{{{FH}}}}

I'm ITA with all the above posters. It's too bad you didn't make him go sooner, but it's not too late now. It's not the beginning of the end, but the beginning of a solid Plan B. Also - I would NOT allow him back in to fill his suitcase. I would fill it for him, and leave it by the door with a REAL Plan B letter. Do you have a copy of SAA? Use the PB letter in it.

And then....go dark. It will hurt like hell. But you can do this, for yourself and your children. He's completely a fogged out alien right now. Going dark gives him the opportunity to realize what he's missing as well, by being with OW.

All the best. You can make it through this. Get him out ASAP and DO NOT ask where he's going.

Thanks for the support. I am having a hell of a day.

I DID try to get him out before. I begged him to go (farther than the tent), but he refused. And following advice, I was not going to be the one to move out.

To be honest, when he closes the door behind him, I want to give up. He shouldn't have to make a choice ... and right now, his choice is clear to me.

I feel like this is only giving him permission to go and have his fun and I'll be waiting for him when he's done. That's how it feels to me. And that's what he's going to do. When he's done with OW, I am supposed to be here with open arms. Well, to be honest, I don't think I will be.
I know this is marriage BUILDERS, but I dont' think I can do it anymore. I am worth more than being second to anyone.

Thanks again for your support.

Another question ... IF he wants to come back, how do I know if it's too soon? Can I still tell him to stay away while I am working on ME? What is the next thing I do?

It is your prerogative to not want to recover.

You tell him, if you don't want to work on the marriage, that you will not tolerate his behavior any longer.

You are thinking too far ahead. Just take it step by step. IF you don't want him later, you don't have to take him back. It's no reason not to work Plan B.

We told you
1) post nup agreement
2) call Steve Harley on his own.

Can you call his parents and ask him to help you get him out of your yard and maybe into their house? Explain to them this is the best way that you can save your M...that you can't have your kids seeing him live in a tent and actively in an A.

Well WH has left. Packed his suitcase and left. He left me a note abou twhat a great person I am and how he doesn't know why he can't love be in love with me. He said he wants to be "friends" with me. UM, NO CHANCE OF THAT !!

He said that he and OW have only spent small amounts of time together, so "this may change things". He is moving in with OW -- and HER MOTHER !!!!!! Please! GOOD LUCK TO BOTH.

I have talked to my MIL and told her I am contacting an attorney. I will not live with a man who wants someone else. I will not be second to anyone. I refuse to live constantly wondering when the next Dday will be. I am not that strong. FOG or no fog ... if he can't see what he has had here at home all this time then it's too late.

I hope he loses both of us and he's left with nothing. i am sick

I NEVER NEVER in a million years thought I'd be in this situation right now.

I am sick.

FH, just focus on your next plan and that is plan B, dont give up just yet, we know you are angry and you should be! Right now is the chance to change you for the better.

Do you have an IM?
Do not email, call, or text wh
Do not wonder what WH is doing, just focus on yourself.

Don't give up FH, we know you can still save this M. ok?

FH, I sort of agree with Sapphire. You should go into Plan B BUTTTT Plan B isn't JUST about marital recovery. That is what pushes the BS into it but once you get here, it is ALL about personal recovery. Even if you get to try to recover your marriage, you would still need to recover personally.

You will always have a chance to decide that you don't want to recover your marriage. No one here will fault you for that.

If you look back on the thread, you will see that we have been able to predict a lot of your H's behavior. Why? Because waywards all follow a basic script.

This is what we can tell you will happen now. EVEN THOUGH he has moved out and chosed OW, he will still want you to continue to meet some of his needs. He will still want you and the boys to be there for him. So he will likely want to come by, phone & text you.

You need to go to Plan B...even if you are certain you want a divorce. It is a way for you to protect yourself and your boys from his wayward craziness. Because just because he left, the drama will still infiltrate your home if you don't cut him off.

So think of all the ways he will try to contact you and get barriers into place ~ phone, email, text, changing locks. Do you have someone who can be an IM?

Its great that you are hurt so deeply considering what he has done. It shows how much of yourself you gave in the marriage willingly and that you are not a doormat or mouse of a person.

Its telling that he doesn't know what to do. That he IS capable of commitment and knows thats what love is supposed to be. Its great that he feels so guilty that he wants to run away in shame to someone who inside he must know is less of a women than you are.


This is what you don't realize yet but the statistics, (and yes in a way you have become part of the statistics, although you are not one), the statistics are that 50% of marriages end in divorce, and of the 50% that don't end 80% have to deal with infidelity at some point in the marriage.

What does that mean? Infidelity is rampant in our society. Why? We think with our emotions and act on our feelings without thinking through our decisions first.

If you ever want to have a marriage you have to understand that there are girls out there preying on your man. A Man has to understand there are Men out there preying on thier wife.

Its just the way it is FH. It always will be that way. You will have to protect your marriage and sometimes, you will get hurt.


So you are angry and hurt and insulted and belittled. So your human too. Good, we can work with that and you are not alone.

Now that you have joined the awful club of betrayed spouses and what the majority of married couples go through, what will be your choice? Will you lose your marriage because you let your feelings rule your head, or will you FIGHT!? Because the gauntlet has been thrown down.

Maybe you are not ready to make that decision yet. We understand that and have been advising you along those lines to pull back, get him away from you before you get any more damaged and give yourself time to think this through.

I strongly suggest for your childrens sake you go into a dark plan B and give yourself and him a chance to see what life will be like without each other. If its hard for you, it hell for the kids. Kids just don't understand why love doesn't work and in thier simplicity they are so wise.

"If Mommy doesn't love Daddy anymore and Daddy doesn't love her then I better not ever make a mistake cuz then they will not love me."

Children can suffocate under that kind of life and the thing is, so might you.

I am glad you are outraged, this is the most painful thing anyone can do to another person and even God says it the only reason for divorce, (Old testament). It seems you are allready to give up and can't believe this could happen to you. It happens to those who would never dream of betraying thier partner. To those also who did not see that thier partner was not happy and to those who thought they were. To those who trusted and gave freedom and respect who were lied to by selfish people acting on thier feelings without thinking through them first considering the consequences to the ones they loved.

It happens to a lot of people, please don't be a causualty. Please think this through and don't let YOUR feelings be the reason your marriage fails. Let us reason together FH. This place can help you restore more than your marriage. First we restore you and your objective mind. Then you can make a good decision. Isn't a marriage worth it?


Go to a Dark plan B and keep posting , reading, and learning how to beat this enemy to your marriage

Ok, Next question ... Father's day. WH has not even contacted MIL/FIL -- even with FIL's health issues, even though WH works for them, has not called to check on kids -- So, WH is showing me that NC is easier to do with his family than OW. But, that's beside the point

Anyway ... do I let him contact me (or MIL) regarding father's day, OR do I (or MIL) contact him and say " your kids will be here from 2-4pm if you want to see them and get the cards they made you". I, of course, will not be there to witness that. I really don't even think he would care it was Father's Day if I somebody didn't contact him first.

My kids have been asking hundreds of questions. I've been trying to answer them in an age appropriate way, but it is so hard. Then while eating dinner tonight one of them tells me that when WH kissed them goodbye (knowing he was leaving that day) he said "I'm going away probably for a long time. I dont know when I'll be back" She asked where he was going ... his response "Mommy will tell you". What a COWARD !!!! Wow did I get mad at him when she said that.

Don't contact him for fathers day, have his parents do that for you

Call your MIL and set up a time to talk to their dad on fathers day for the kids.

Stay strong, you are doing good!

SIL says she is coming in to town for the weekend. She says that SHE will be our IM for Father's day. But she is wanting to bend so Father's day can be done when it's convenient for WH. Please!! WHY? To be honest, my kids hardly notice a difference that he has left. That's how little attention he gave them. Sad. I say, give a time frame and if he can't give up OW for that long -- tough. It's his turn to give a little for once.

I think that personally I am doing good by being so strong and holding my ground. My worry is my kids and trying to prepare for the future...