I don't personally know of any stories on here about the exact sitch you are asking about. I do however, know that there are BH's on here whom have recovered their marriages. Have you read their threads? When it was slow around here and I was upset by things going on in my own sitch, I would look through older threads. I started as far back as it would let me go and I would read anything I could. While posters were a bit different back then, a lot of the advice can still be used today. It is encouraging to see others in a similar sitch to yours and that they recovered.

Sot,
Here�s my take. While all sitch�s are different, none are really unique. You talked about how schtoop, grip and yourself have heard certain things from your WWs, and a made it to recovery. None are unique because we know that waywards all use the same playbook. They are all different because of the Wayward themselves, the timeline in which the MB concepts we applied, and how you implemented the MB concepts.

What we know is that applying the MB concepts gives you the best chance to save your marriage. Your WW may never change her mind, but using the MB concepts sets you up for either path that your marriage takes. It�s like a double edged sword for recovery, WITH�or WITHOUT your WW.

Remember that you can�t change your WW. That is on her. You can only hope to be the beacon of hope for her. You are the lighthouse to guild your WW home through the fog if she decides to. She may never see it.

Remember,
-No EXPECTATIONS!!
-Stick to your plan
-Be active, not reactive to her.
You will come out better on the other side regardless.


My take�

Great take NW. Me likey.

What I saying is that you don�t need other examples to do what is best for your marriage. They are out there, some I am sure have gotten close to D, Motarman rings a bell.

Your WW is an addict, she will need to hit rock bottom to see the light. It is up to her find rock bottom on her own, she can take that shovel out of her hand at any time.

The ball is in your court right now to make that beacon as bright as possible.

SOT, Al Turtle..I speak to him about twice a week. There really is NOTHING we can do - they do have to learn on their own. They will do what they want to do always. Kind of like a child...we will be there saying 'wow, that hurt' but the decisions are all their own.

Mine is 'somewhat' talking to me which is 'somewhat' promising because I am becoming 'safe' to talk to. Plus, the fact that she is visibly depressed/angry/sad means that she is 'internally' confused. Does this help my situation? Who knows...better than her being 'gone' and not confused I guess.

The advice on these forums have not made sense the whole time, but as I look back, almost every piece is spot on. Like for example, I could NOT understand how 'fighting' or dragging divorce was useful then. But, now, it makes sense to me......because time is all we have and they don't want that, they want 'out' NOW.

Tough situation for us...I feel for you as I do myself. This just plain sucks.

Any updates? Have not heard from you SOT...we BS need to stick together. This forum and a friend is the only thing that gets me through days these weeks.....

Grip- Thanks for checking in. This has been a very tough week. Sunday from the minute WW woke up she was angry. Mad at me for whatever reason. She had gone out the night before and presumably was with OM. We were supposed to spend the day together with the kids. Church and then the pool. WW didn't want to go to church with me but I told her the kids and I were going with or without her. Se went but was mad about that too. All day she was throwing out little hurtful comments. We went to the pool and she was giving me the silent treatment. I let my panick get the best of me and I pressed which caused her to lash out even more. Plan A went out the window. I got angry and got loud. I DJ'd. I think she was happy I did it. That made her feel more justified in what she is doing. When the dust settled I asked her to leave if she wouldn't stop having a relationship with OM. I was so emotionally drained I didn't think I could take any more. Wednesday she filed for D. I haven't received anything yet but I know its coming. Again, my fear and anxiety got the best of me. I didn't LB as much as just press. I told her that I wasnt going to try to keep the kids from her but that i would spend every penny i ever made to try to keep OM from being around the kids. She said after we are divorced I couldn't control who she had a relationship with or who she married. and later in the conversation I asked if she was sure that she was doing the right thing or if she was just sure she needed to do something because the situation wasn't working. She said "I have to do something because I am miserable." I wanted to talk it out. She didn't. When I tried to talk about the R she said "your not helping your case". She sees this as controlling behavior. But what does that mean? That phrase is interesting to me. She has used it before. Does that mean she thinks there is something I could do to help my case? In other words, she may change her mind? I know I'm grasping for anthing here but all I have is hope. She also said that when i did the mini plan B and didn't talk to her for three days she missed me. I told her if she had those feelings then she shouldn't be filing for D. She said they weren't romantic feelings. I said she was making a permanent decision based on feelings that may be temporary. I asked her to do a legal separation instead. She doesn't want to do that. She said if it turns out that we are truely meant to be together and 6 months down the road we get back together, we can get married again. "It takes 3 minutes at the justice of the peace" I don't think we got anywhere with the conversation, but I tried to let it go. We talked longer than she wanted to and shorter than I did.

Yesterday sucked. She overslept in the morning so I woke her before I left for work. Got a hug and headed off. A couple of hours later she sends me a text. " If you have SIL digging for dirt for you......you need to stop! It is not in anyone's best interest to harass me" and then "If you are trying to find dirt on OM go ahead....he has nothing to hide" As i mentioned earlier in the thread SIL works with WW and OM. I have no idea what she was talking about. I had heard that OM had been fired from this company before because he dropped a bag of weed on the floor while at work. No idea if this is true or if that is even what she is talking about. I didn't hear it from SIL. I'm sure some of you know how bad it feels for your WS to deffend their OP to you. It sucks!

WW had arranged to stay at the neighbors house for two weeks while she (neighbor) is out of town, so yesterday was the first day she did that. She says she is moving back to her mothers in 2 weeks. She went out last night with friends, obviously the OM was there. I saw her this morning breifly, as we both were leaving for work. She gave me a hug and wanted to talk about which days she would have the kids and which days I would have them. I didn't say much.

I am totaly confused. Many on this tread earlier suggested I needed to go to plan B. At that time I couldn't because WW was living at home. When I asked her to leave, it wasn't something I thought through. I just had reached a point that day where I didn't feel like i could take one more thing. Now I got what I asked for and I'm worried that my plan A was so bad that my plan B will be hopeless. Now I'm in a postition where I can transition to plan B quickly and that is good. The flip side is that it is now very hard to plan A. I will continue to Plan A for a while. I started my letter.

I feel a little numb, like after you witness an accident or find out about the death of a loved one. It's like I am viewing my life from the outside. I still get hit with waves of depression, but in between I am just shell shocked.

One thing I dont like is that you told her that you didn't care if SHE took the kids?? What are you talking about?? You need TO FIGHT FOR YOUR KIDS CUSTODY!! Let her know that you want the kids, talk to a lawyer, I don't even know what plan you are in, your not in plan A and your not in plan B. Are you plan Doormat? If so then you wont get anything!

If she is moving out, then start writing your plan B letter, and have NO CONTACT, if not then you still need to focus on your Plan A.

You need to decide if you can start plan B, if you think can do a plan A while she is out of the house, then do so. The timeline is yours SOT.

If you do go into plan B then make sure she can't get in the house, change the locks if you have to.

Good luck!

I didn't say that I didn't want the kids. I have made it clear that I do. I just told her that I wouldn't try to keep them from her.I couldn't get full custody no matter how much money I spent. I just doesn't work that way here. I am still in Plan A just not a very good one. I will try to stay in plan A for a little while longer for a couple of reasons. I wasn't able to deal with the A when I felt it was in my face. With her out of the house I may be able to be more affective even if I have less opportunity. I don't want to go into Plan B when she decides to move. I want to make sure I am the one who initiates Plan B and it isn't seen as a reaction. I am worried that my plan A to date wasn't a good one. I want to make sure her last impression of me is one of a loving and caring husband. Right now, she dreads being around me because of this situation. When I do go to plan B it will be a relief to her.

While I am writing this I just got a text from WW. She wanted to know my plans for tonight. I asked if I could see her tonight, she said yes. I just have to make sure I don't have any R talk. Grip's post of **edit** makes a lot of sense to me. I didn't get any response here when I asked if anyone felt his stuff was contrary to MB principles. Specifically the stuff about the separation wall. I feel like WW needs space from me but not plan B. things need to calm down a little before she feels safe around me. I kills me that she is having an A but feels like all the tension between us is caused by me. Fog at its worst.

I missed the prayer group I joined yesterday. I was up all night obsessing so I couldn't get up at 5:15. I regret it now. It is one of the best hours of my week. Does anyone else ever pray and pray for something and when you see no evidence that your prayers are heard wonder, am I praying for the right thing? Is it really God's plan for me to get a D? It doesn't seem likely, but I am heading right for it.

Here is another question. In SOL's thread he recited some of his conversation with Steve. He asked when is it time to give up? and Steve said when the gavel hits. So does that mean I you should give up Plan B and move on once the D is final? This is a timeline problem for me. I will likely be divorced in a few months but SAA says to stay in plan B for 2 years. What is everyone's take on this.

so how did it go?

update on last night

Last night was a non event. Talked to WW about nothing. We had dinner with the kids and spent a couple hours behaving like a typical family. Then she and DD's headed next door for the night. I didn't get any one on one time but at least there was no conflict and no R talk. Today she took the kids to the pool. I was not invited. I went out and got some new clothes and stopped to see my parents. WW called and said she was going out with TF. She said OM is out of town (I asked). I have no idea, but as I get ready to go to plan B I don't think fighting about OM is productive. I just want to build as much LB deposits as possible.I talked to her for about 30 minutes on the phone. The conversation started to go toward R talk a couple of times but I let it go and changed the subject. I got home and she was getting ready. She looked great and I told her so. She asked me to model my new clothes. I showed her the stuff and I could tell she liked some of it. It wasn't much but it was comfortable and not akward. As she was leaving the bedroom I was standing by the door and she came up and got to about 2 inces from kissing me before she caught herself and stopped. She said it was just habit but I think it was more. I tried to keep it light. I said she knew she wanted to try out the new beard. We were being flirty and the conversation turned to sex again. She said she really did miss my skills. I said we were still married, so if she was interested let me know. I definitly did not repeat the friends with benefits line. I don't think Scotland has been back to my thread since the last time. Anyway, she was encouraging the SF talk. I said she may as well take advantage while we were still married. She said something about since we were married once SF with me would always be ok. All the talk was playful, but there was a lot of truth in what was said. I thought it was crazy that she was admitting that she was still interested in me in that way and that she was even considering acting on it. What does this mean? I definitly would never think she would be physical with two people at the same time. Does anyone think its possible that her EA has not yet turned into a PA. I can't imagine it hasn't. He's been here for a few weeks now. The opportunity has been there. When she left she said I could call or text her tonight. I don't think I will, but it was nice to hear her suggest it. She gave me a hug before she left and I can still smell her lotion on my hands. That smell (rice flower and shea butter) drives me insane. Tomorrow will be really hard for me. I don't think she intends to be around me much tomorrow but she did say we could take a walk together tomorrow night. That's an hour of one on one. I haven't had that in a while.

hi there sot,
I think last night went great, sounds like a nice evening for the 2 of you with a little flirting.....
Don't worry about the Om, just work on your memories with her and re-living the happy times in your marriage.....
Bring up all the good things between you two, let her think about them......
don't give up, things can change.....

So Saturday night WW stayed out all night. Came to the house in the morning to give me a fathers day gift. She gives me tickets for me and the kids for the baseball game on Friday night. I'm sure that will be convenient. The kids and I will be out of the way freeing her up to go out with OM. How kind. She picked Father's Day to stop going to church with us. The kids and I hung out all day together. It was difficult knowing that she was probably with OM all day. I broke down a couple of times but the kids didn't see. It is hard to be with the kids because they are a constant reminder of what I am losing. Got home in the evening and WW and I went for a walk. No R talk, I was proud of myself. She stayed at our house last night. This morning we talked a little over breakfast (again not R talk) and headed out.

No problems until we headed out. First some background. Last week i discovered a check missing from my checkbook along with the carbon. I suspected WW had taken it but wasn't sure. I called the back and reported it stolen. (WW is not on the account) The put a temporary hold on the check but said that I had to sign a writen stop order. They sent it in the mail. So today on the way out I stopped at the mailbox. I was actually expecting to get the D papers. They weren't there but the info from the back was. WW stops at the mailbox and asks if there was anything for her. I think she expected the D papers as well. She noticed the bank envelope and asked me what it was. I must not have covered well. She grabbed the letter and read it. Her face dropped. After some discussion, she came clean. She had stolen the check and had deposited it into her account. Apparently, she has been writing checks assuming that the money was in the acct. It isn't so she will be bouncing those checks. So she asks me to stop by her bank and put money in to cover those checks. I declined. So I am the bad guy. Who is this woman? I acked her what she was going to if she continued down this path. Apparently her plan is to live with her mother and get a second job. I don't beleive that. I think she intends to move in with OM. The problem is, he doesn't make S^!##. I don't think she will change her mind about the D and she may never come back to our M but eventually reality has to set in. She doesn't appreciate all that I provide for her. And I'm not talking only about finances.

Soooo my world continues to suck!

One of the things that helped my husband keep going in his plan A was being with the kids, and hugging them. He said if it wasn't for the kids then he probably would have been on meds to help him cope, not sure if this helps, but it's worth a try

You are right for refusing to finance her A. Thats the Stick part of the carrot and the stick. You are to make every attempt possible to stop the affair. She is obviously cake eating with you.

I see you did nothing wrong. Id hide your check book as well. That money might as well just be going into his pocket.

Also I wouldn't rule out a PA because she still wants SF from you. If there is smoke there is fire. In the end it doesnt change your Plan A or Plan B. I would resist the urge to SF with her. If she IS in a physical affair this can be construed as forgiveness of it. Courts will hold it against you.

At this point you really should have your PB locked in. Id post it on here. Who is going to be your intermediary? How are you going to keep her out of the house? How much child suport do you think you will have to pay? Do you have a good lawyer that will fight the divorce papers? Make them drag them out as long as possible?

If she doesnt have crap for cash she is going to go broke before you. The ability to outspend and outlast her counts.

Id post your plans for PB on here so the pros can clean them up. It will probably happen so you need to be prepared when it does.

sot, I have scanned through the last pages of your thread and forgive me if I have missed something, but I think I understand your situation.

Your wife doesn't necessarily have AN OM, but is addicted to that whole destructive single lifestyle? MB has resolved marriages like this, but I would go about this a little differently.

The thing that stands out the most to me is that your wayward wife is driving the ship here. She has you all under her complete control, which emboldens her. This way, she knows she can keep you as an option. That is appealing to an abusive person who only views others as opportunities for exploitation. While you certainly need to leave a good taste in her mouth, the carrot part of Plan A is not going to avail you much except serve to enable her.

The STICK is going to help you much more. If there is going to be any hope of recovery, you will need to take back control of your life and not allow her to drive the ship.

The way you do that is to:

a) expose the affair wife and far [if you haven't already]

b) countersue for adultery if you can. If your state allows this, don't let the attorney talk you out of it. Ask for possession of the house and primary custody of the children. Have it put in your papers that your children are not be around any OM

c) go into Plan B ASAP. And I mean a DAMN DARK Plan B. In your case, you cannot leave any gaps because your wife is a player so she will be looking for ways to get through. Change your locks, designate a intermediary and then deliver the letter.

Attach a visitation schedule to the letter and specify that she is not to come in the house, but is to pick up the kids from the drive way and let them off in the driveway. If they are too little for that, then find a way to do this exchange in a way that you don't see her.

Plan B will be taking back control of your life from a crazy person. This will protect you and may also wake her up.

SHE should be the one paying child support if he has primary custody of the kids.

sot, when you retain an attorney and you lay all this out for him, he will probably try to talk you out of it. That is because an attorney wants an easy, amicable divorce. He is not interested in saving your marriage. You are more likely to save your marriage if you make this difficult and drag it out.

If you cooperate with someone whose intent is the destruction of your marriage, you will end up with a destroyed marriage. The trick is to make it tough and then drag your feet for about 2 years. If she doesn't wake up in that time, then your marriage is over anyway.

The kids are a double edged sword. The love I have for them is a comfort to me. The hugs definitly help. But when I am with them in a situation that normally would include my WW it is so painful. I feel their loss as much as my own. I project this new family unit into the future and I realize that it will always be deficient. There will always be a big whole there even if I eventually try to fill it with someone else. I'm sure that I could eventually find someone for me, that would meet my needs. But this family can never be whole without recovery of my M. I read on here somewhere that marriage is not always forever, but divorce is. That is the thought that is following me around like a cloud.

[quote=YEG] She is obviously cake eating with you.
quote]

I see this. I left out one huge part in my update. On sunday before we headed off to different churches, she comes in for a kiss again. She caught herself again but she got all the way in before she did. I told her go ahead a give me one it was obviously on her mind. So she did. Knowing that Plan B is on the horizon, I'll let her cake eat for now.

sot, you need to get her out. This is way beyond the usual abuse we see on here. Can you get her out today?

I would go to her and say "you had offered to leave and I really need you to leave now. Your adultery is painful to me and sends a horrible message to the kids. I want to take you up on your offer sooner rahter than later. "

See if you can get her out that way. And then once she is gone, change the locks.