I agree....but as I said, I draw a distinction between singing in a studio and singing in a church choir. I am also thinking of things from the standpoint of recovery; it's important to begin activities that are communal - not just 12 step groups, but activities that bring you pleasure, that will light up the cerebral cortex in the same way that a drug will.

I also believe that having lala sing again - in a much safer setting - will help their recovery rather than hinder it. While I understand the mechanism of triggers, church choir seems like a very wholesome idea, far different than a recording studio.

Furthermore, I think that they would both benefit from getting out together in a social setting. I may be misreading things, but I sense a large part of want2stay's life is led online.

I truly do understand the idea of triggers and the necessity of a FWS to avoid certain behaviors. For example, I do not have a Facebook account, despite the urging of my family members.

But I think that lala needs a healthy outlet that brings her pleasure, and that they both need something to do together that does not involve an electronic connection. She and Want2 could both participate in church and its activities.

pk

I agree. But while you and I might draw a distinction, her husband may not. And that is what counts. It is much easier to change behavior than it is reactions. So if he has a reaction to her singing, then her behavior needs to change. If this is a trigger to him, then recovery won't get off the ground. It would be a huge mistake for him to suck it up.

I'm pretty sure I suggested a very safe setting for lala to sing in. One safer than the one you are suggesting, because it deals away with the performance issue (trigger) and the admiration problem.

See here's the thing - this couple has been limping along essentially in a false recovery - I just don't think it's the time for LaLa to bother thinking about singing - there is an addiction issue at hand - the learning of the just the MB Basic Concepts and hey, the program can't even be implemented properly until AFTER the addiction has been arrested - We are talking SQUARE ONE - really NEGATIVE SQUARE ONE at this point - Seriously, this is like a surgeon hammering out the details of what a paralyzed patient will be wearing when they run their next marathon...

If I were LaLa, at this point I would file singing in the "ain't never happenin'" basket - because THAT attitude is the ONLY one that will facilitate the recovering of her marriage and family...

Mrs. W

P.S. We do have a FWH here on the boards [GloveOil] whose affair began in a church choir, btw...I have read many of his posts talking about the admiration factor that existed in that setting...

Actually GO saing in a small ensemble with the OW. A church choir pretty much practices all together about an hour a week, and all the voice parts sit together. So I never sit by a man....because we don't have any men who are sopranos. I am not expressing one opinion or the other about singing. But I get admiration for teaching, and I had an A with a fellow teacher. Before the A ever started, we wrote an educational grant with the principal. He taught me DD guitar. I know someone who had an affair who was a pharmacist. How close or far away does the connection need to be before we cut something completely out of our lives? Should I have gone back to school and found a new career because teaching school is something OM and I had done together?

It seems the roots of the problem is not whether singing leaves people vulnerable to affairs or whether being admired leaves people vulnerable to affairs. The root problem is whether or not a WS is willing to do whatver it takes and change whatever needs changing. I could force myself to never write anpother word, but unless my attitude about writing changed, it wouldn't matter.

Exactly, Luri...It is the attitude and willingness that is critical - If the WS isn't willing to put the BS and marriage above every other outside interest, then there is no recovery to be had...

Mrs. W

I guess my point in mentioning GloveOil and church singing was only that no activity is 100% safe if the people participating in them aren't actively protecting their marriages...Currently, LaLa isn't in a place where she has proven that her marriage comes first, and we see the result of that has been crippling to W2S...So the singing issue, at least to me, is an obvious "no go"...

Mrs. W

I totally agree Mrs. W.....for 2 days I've been reading this and thinking, "WHY is this even being discussed???.....". It's a distraction at this point in the game.....

Not

I'd like to know when LaLa is intending on doing a cranial rectal extraction, suck it up, and get her butt back in here!

Toooooooo funny!!!!!!

But very serious. Why has she not been here for a day?

She doesn't like being told she is wrong and does not like that you would DARE tell her something she doesn't want to hear.

I know, because I have many days like that.

Judging just from what I've read from resonance the last few days I would say she just wants us to pet her ego...she's not interested in recovery. I dunno...I've heard the same crap from my ex...he never actually followed thru...that required actually believing he did something wrong.

W2S has been pretty silent, too. I hope he's getting the support and guidance he needs.

I wasn't laughing at the situation, only the comment.......I'm sorry if I offended you SC or anyone else........

Not

This is partly true, but when I first came here years ago, I had no problem with being told I was wrong. I had no interest in pride - only in saving my M and helping W2S heal. For a long time I stayed in that mind-frame...and then I left. And slowly but surely, all the old ways that led to my A, as well as IBs, AOs, DJs and the like crept back in...and I didn't even realize it was happening. Why? Because I left. Because I did not take the proper steps to PROTECT my M and my BH from it ever happening again. Because I lost focus on what was really important.

I deleted all of my posts the other night, because W2S had told me he was done. He made it clear that I had pushed him too far and that he would no longer stay in this M. I was terrified that he would use my initial attempts here to get my head back on straight against me in a D. My posts were pretty revealing, and were about a lot of things that could be used to take my kids away. I was terrified. Selfish, but terrified. That is the only reason - I've never deleted posts before.

To my dear friends Mrs. W & BK - thanks for posting. I am a little twisted and I don't trust myself or my feelings, so I'll just say this in the form of a question - you both said that you were mislead by me, and that the reason you had advised me to go to Plan B or D a little over a year ago was because you didn't have the whole truth. My question is - how can you say this now? You spoke to BOTH W2S and I on almost a DAILY BASIS, and it was due to the lack of progress and unwillingness to forgive on W2S's part that led you to believe he would continue to punish me until we hated each other. How can you say now that this was not the case...I do not understand?? Maybe you can help with this, because I am truly shocked that you would say you did not have the whole truth. Never in our ENTIRE M has ANYONE had as much of both sides of the fence as you two. W2S and I have never let people into our lives like that - we've both had our own friends who listen to us complain about each other here and there and who will take their friend's side 'cuz it's the only side they hear, etc. HOW CAN YOU SAY I GASLIGHTED YOU!!!??? You had the WHOLE STORY - from BOTH SIDES.

Mrs. W - you promised to be my accountability partner. I realize I have no right to expect anything from anyone, but I have reached out to you so many times, and you never answered. Now you have all the answers? Huh? I love you dearly, and I always will - you are one of the most wonderful people I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. Leaving our friendship was MY DOING, and I am sorry. But I did try to reach out after that. You DID know almost the MINUTE I started smoking again, and you said nothing. You have nothing to apologize to me for (talking about your first post here) because you didn't/don't OWE me anything. But how did we get here..?

Maybe it's because both of you are getting senile in your old age. (sorry - I couldn't help it) I just adore you both, even though I want to scream at you.

But I realize that none of that matters, really. The only thing that matters to me now is getting professional help so that I can get my head back on straight and start to fix this mess.

And this whole discussion about me singing...??? I just had to shake my head, since I never mentioned wanting to sing again. When JC was brought up I mentioned the music, but not in that way (wanting to sing again). The truth is, I HAVE performed a couple of times in my church and a couple other places. W2S has been OK with this for a couple years now - weddings, churches, etc. But I meant it when I said the joy was gone. It is gone for me as well, and that is noone's fault but mine. I no longer have dreams of becoming some superstar. Good grief, I'm almost forty!

And to ML - I want to thank you for providing my H with a place he felt safe. I would love for him to have that back, if you are willing. I will not interfere.

I gotta go have dinner with my family and take care of my DH - he has been up for the better part of 48 hours. Between my bullcrap and the deadline he has to meet for his job, he is wrung out and dead tired.

As I said, I don't trust anything about myself right now - I don't think I have the right words to even post here. But I read every day I just really think he and I need to turn to Dr. Harley himself now. And nar-anon.

Spin it any way you want.....

You didn't make any real changes.

LaLa, Please remind me, why do we care about the history lesson?

Keep It Simple;

You never worked the MB Program
You screwed up
You can't do this without help
You take the steps to get help
You clean up your own house
You make ammends


So what did you learn from SAA?

DITTO!