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Originally Posted by Resonance
This is partly true, but when I first came here years ago, I had no problem with being told I was wrong. I had no interest in pride - only in saving my M and helping W2S heal. For a long time I stayed in that mind-frame...


Oh, NOW I see.

You DID eliminate ALL avenues OM could use to contact you (i.e., changed your cell number).

You DID have solid EPs that created an environment that made an affair practically impossible.

You DID eliminate all addictions from your life.

You DID thoroughly learn about ENs and learn what W2S's were and how to best meet them for him, and were MEETING THEM.

You DID study LBs, examine yourself honestly, and remove all your LBs.

You DID schedule at least 15 hours every week with W2S and during that time did your very best to meet his top ENs and make it enjoyable for him.

You DID avoid all situations that could lead to allowing others to meet your ENs.

You DID continue to live a completely transparent life with no IB so that W2S never had reason to wonder.



These are the actions of someone who is "only interested in saving her marriage and helping her BH heal."

This is what you DID you for a "long time"?


Quote
and then I left. And slowly but surely, all the old ways that led to my A, as well as IBs, AOs, DJs and the like crept back in...

They just slowly crept back in, ey?





Quote
and I didn't even realize it was happening.


That's AMAZING, Lala.

You didn't even realize that you were no longer sitting down with your calendar and writing out your 15 hours together?

You didn't even realize that you were ignoring your EPs and putting yourself into situations that would not protect your marriage?

You didn't even realize that you were not avoiding LBs?

You didn't even realize that you didn't give a [censored] about W2S's ENs?

Hhhhmmm.....




Quote
I deleted all of my posts the other night, because W2S had told me he was done. He made it clear that I had pushed him too far and that he would no longer stay in this M. I was terrified that he would use my initial attempts here to get my head back on straight against me in a D. My posts were pretty revealing, and were about a lot of things that could be used to take my kids away. I was terrified. Selfish, but terrified. That is the only reason - I've never deleted posts before.



I see, it's W2S's fault you deleted your posts. That big meany might try to get custody from his weed-tokin' wife. What kind of man would do that?! (a caring father in my estimation)

Losing custody should be a natural consequence for your long history of bad choices. Have you ever considered that it might be in your children's best interest for W2S to have custody of them?




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LaLa...

The problem for me was that I thought you and I were so much alike that I believed you to be doing the same things that I was doing - ACTIVELY WORKING MB - That was my bad - Because of that I failed to ask many of the right questions and made some stupid assumptions - You know like just taking it for granted that you had learned the MB Basics - and of course you'd read SAA!

However, I DO recall both BK and I constantly asking both of you if you were getting in AT LEAST 15 hours per week of UA time - As I recall there were always excuses [from both sides] as to why that couldn't be done ~ Did you know that Dr. Harley will NOT counsel people who do not meet that particular criteria? He knows that if they can't commit to spending that much time together that implementing the rest of the program is a waste of his time and theirs...

About forgiveness - well, a BS that is given genuine and sustained Just Compensation usually does offer it - not that they must or that a FWS deserves it, but that is most often the case - forgiveness is not something that you can demand - it sure isn't something that you hold over someone's head telling them that unless they forgive you, you are outta there - that doesn't provide a very conducive environment for forgiveness now does it?

I will tell you that I am baffled regarding your saying that I promised to be your accountability partner - I honestly don't remember saying that, but if I did, wouldn't it have been reasonable for me to expect that you would have stuck around if you wanted that? I'm pretty sure that AA Sponsors don't constantly have to chase down their sponsees and drag them to meetings - Your choices are YOURS, LaLa...Trying to lay them at my feet by saying that you "reached out" and I didn't answer smacks of you trying to pin your choices on someone other than yourself - no thanks - I've made enough poor choices for myself, I don't need or want the responsibility for yours too...

I know you've called me twice in the past few days that I haven't been available - I'm sorry for that, I explained one of them on W2S's thread - the other, well, that one I did purposely let go to voicemail, because I felt you needed the words of OTHERS more than you needed mine right then - and yes, I was very disappointed in you...As for the other times prior to this recent time period??? I honestly don't remember there being more than 2 - Quite frankly though, I had no interest once the pot smoking began - I'm just not a fan of stoners, what can I say? Further, I was disgusted at that point - you guys were struggling very hard financially and you were buying DRUGS? You expected me to say something? Do you remember how you responded when I told you that getting a DOG when money was so tight was a bad plan? You ignored me and did it anyway - I'm sure that my saying something about the pot would have made you choose otherwise - Riiiiiight!!! C'MON!!! MrRollieEyes Seriously, you weren't choosing otherwise for your own husband and children, but words from ME - someone who you've never met in person would have stopped you dead in your tracks??? While it's true that I was born in the morning, it wasn't THIS morning, LaLa!!!

I am here to be your friend and help you in any way that I can IF you choose to work a 12 Step program and really learn and implement MB - there is no denying that I like you a ton - I can't imagine how much more likable you will be when actively working the 12 Steps - I have immense respect for folks who do that - I look forward to knowing that LaLa...

A tip - until you begin a recovery program, all this back and forth with rationalizations and justifications won't do you or W2S any good at all - it really is a matter of just shutting the heck up and going to meetings - stop trying to overthink everything - that is a bottomless pit and will hinder you in solving your living problem...

Mrs. W

P.S. I will be VERY TOUGH if not IMPOSSIBLE to reach today - I have a ton to get done before we see my favorite GLAM-O-LICIOUS ROCKER ~ ADAM LAMBERT tonight!!! [Insert squeal of pure delight here!] Yes, I know you didn't dig him on Idol - SHUT IT! stickout


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I have reached out to you so many times, and you never answered.

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You DID know almost the MINUTE I started smoking again, and you said nothing.


Sounds like you are blaming someone else to me.

Don't be pointing your finger at others.

The mere mention of this shows that you still don't want to accept your own responsibility in all this.

Personal responsibility...try it.

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Dear LaLa,

I am going to take the following quote, and begin a new post on that particular issue.
Even though you started me thinking about this issue, the new post is NOT about YOU.
Just wanted to be clear about that.

Thanks.

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we've both had our own friends who listen to us complain about each other

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Originally Posted by LaLa
You DID know almost the MINUTE I started smoking again, and you said nothing.

Okay, I have to revisit the above quote - I gotta tell ya, that really chaps my hiney and I'll tell you why:

REALLY? You as an adult needed someone to point out to you that buying and smoking weed everyday is WRONG?

The fact that you are a MOM never entered the equation for you?

The fact that there were times when you guys were struggling to buy groceries didn't provide some hint?

The fact that marijuana is ILLEGAL wasn't a clue to YOU?

You needed ME to tell you to knock it off? Who is responsible for YOU, LaLa?

Something else that has been needling me - I fear that the reason you have remained foggy after all this time is because the whole truth of the affair has not been revealed...It is impossible to recover if there are still secrets - nothing guarantees continuing into the abyss of the fog more than holding back the truth...If you have not been 100% forthright with W2S about the goings on of the affair, NOW is the time - If you do not, you will remain lost...That will break my heart...Please, get completely honest if you have not...

Mrs. W


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Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered

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Keeping it simple this time...

Mrs. W - I apologize for my ignorance. Blaming you in any way, shape, or form was ridiculous and stupid. You've never been anything but honest with me, and I was WRONG to try and blame-shift any part of this onto your shoulders. I gotta say, though, the "chaps my hiney" comment made me miss you very, very much!

smb - I was going to quote your whole post, and then answer it part by part, but the only thing I really have to say in answer to it is... Nooo to the first part, and blush to the second. How embarrassing to realize how much my pride and ignorance has gotten in the way.

But rather than bore ya'll with another one of my wayward history lesson (good grief!), I would rather focus on what *I* am doing to fix it NOW.

I finished SAA, and I gotta say that the last half especially was like a light-bulb going off. As far as my whining about W2S not meeting MY NEEDS... sick

Can I ask you just what sane person would WANT TO???!!! I have been a selfish, egotistical, demanding, PIA. The only period I came out of that mind-set even a little was after I came here. But then I didn't follow though with anything...CUZ I WAS SOOOOO SMART! Dontcha know - I READ ALL THE ARTICLES ON THE SITE! I'M A FREAKIN EXPERT!!

After finishing the book, TH and Fri we didn't get much time together, so I brain-stormed on my own about how to meet the 15 hours. I was looking forward to running it all by W2S last night. We had a great talk, and have scheduled our hours for the week. He agreed with a lot of my suggestions and had some of his own. I am looking forward to tonight after his first meeting (mine is Tues night at 7:00) so that we can read together some things that I highlighted in the book that I hope will help us get a jump start on the MB plan. Then, he is going to read it all the way through.

I have failed this M in every way. I don't want to go on about it - I'm sure you are all too aware anyways, and certainly don't need my help figuring out where I have gone wrong!! I had the nerve to tell myself what a weak person W2S is so many times...how strong do you think a person would have to be to exist in this nightmare for this long without off-ing me in my sleep? I know his love for the boys and our family unit had a lot to with with it. I know *I* certainly gave him no reason.


Last edited by Resonance; 06/19/10 12:42 PM. Reason: darn typos

Peace,
LaLa

FWW(me) 37
BS 38
DS 9 & 5
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Dday 2/17/07

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I have a funny story! One of the things W2S pointed out (Mrs. W brought it up too, which is why I thought you might get a kick out of it) when we talked last night about my selfish demands and IBs, etc was the DOG. He said it really KILLED him that I went out and adopted a dog without him "joyfully agreeing" and then YELLED at him for not HELPING to take care of Buster (the dog). I was PEEVED that "I had to do all the work alone and noone was helping me, and WAH WAH WAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!" when he didn't want to darn dog to begin with!!!! After an extremely difficult first year with Buster (I think he is an even bigger PIA than me if you can dig it), he is turning into a great dog and is a part of of the family now. W2S said this last night, and then he said "You know, I really LOVE BUSTER!"

GET IT ....LOVE BUSTER!!!!

OMG rotflmao rotflmao rotflmao

OK, so you probably thing that's the stupidest story and not at all funny, but I laughed until I almost cried.


Peace,
LaLa

FWW(me) 37
BS 38
DS 9 & 5
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Originally Posted by tst
So what did you learn from SAA?

That's a really long list, but here it goes (in part, anyways)...

I learned that I have built my portion of our relationship with IB blocks.
I learned that my way of doing things is totally selfish and cruel almost all of the time.
I learned that I don't even know how to ask for things, let alone negotiate.
I learned that I haven't been honest with myself, and therefore could not possibly be honest with anyone else, especially W2S.
I learned that not only have I not followed the rule of protection, I have been almost the SOLE SOURCE of W2S's unhappiness.
I learned that I have never identified my H's needs and therefore have not met them.
I learned that if I don't fix these problems, we will continue to do this nightmare dance and the roller-coaster will never come to a "full and complete stop."
I learned that my constant angry outbursts have completely depleted my H's love bank.
I learned that my sorry brain is chalk FULL of DJs...it's almost the basis of every decision, conclusion, and feeling that I have. This will be the hardest thing to change. I never realized that this is also the source of much of MY unhappiness. It's why I get angry so much...one of my mantras is "People are stupid!!" But then I turn around and preach sweetly that "We ALL have something to learn from each other." Barf. I AM a fraud!!! puke

Originally Posted by myfailyilove
I am so disgusted with her!
ITA - I am disgusted with myself!

On a side note - we have found a church and have both joyfully agreed to start going (and NO, LC, it's not a "new-agey" one! naughty wink )


Peace,
LaLa

FWW(me) 37
BS 38
DS 9 & 5
PA 7/06-8/06
Dday 2/17/07

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Something else that has been needling me - I fear that the reason you have remained foggy after all this time is because the whole truth of the affair has not been revealed...It is impossible to recover if there are still secrets - nothing guarantees continuing into the abyss of the fog more than holding back the truth...If you have not been 100% forthright with W2S about the goings on of the affair, NOW is the time - If you do not, you will remain lost...That will break my heart...Please, get completely honest if you have not...

I almost forgot about this one - all has been revealed. I have kept nothing back, and the whole truth was given.


Peace,
LaLa

FWW(me) 37
BS 38
DS 9 & 5
PA 7/06-8/06
Dday 2/17/07

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Originally Posted by LaLa
I am looking forward to tonight after his first meeting (mine is Tues night at 7:00)

How did the meetings go?

I appreciate your apology - both of them - the one here and the one on my voicemail...

I am rooting for you, but I am doing it at a distance for right now - I don't want to hinder any part of your recovery by possibly steering you wrong - The meetings - go to them - that is where your greatest help will come from at this point - when you've engaged in those for a period of time, THEN I'll gladly talk to you - this is HARD for me, LaLa - my natural instinct is to want to call you - I feel CRUEL for not calling you, but I fear that I am not what you need right now - the last thing I want is to do your family more harm than good...

I am praying for all of you...

Mrs. W


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Mrs. W ~

Aw - no problemo, seniorita! And not cruel at all. To be honest, I don't really have time these days. My little one is sick with the flu for the second time in 3 weeks (and he NEVER gets sick!). He gave it to me the first time, and I haven't felt right since (plus going off the ADs cold turkey has been rough). Because the little one was fevered and the big one had baseball practice, I missed the meeting last night, but I found another one Saturday morning. I am going to go the Sat morning AND the Tues one next week. I need something really rigid with strong people to get me off on the right track. Maybe I'll go to both for a while. W2S's is Saturday night, so I am going to drop him off since it's right up the street from where I work, get some stuff done there and then pick him up for our date night. Kids are going to my parents.

We've been getting better at spending our UA time - man, is it HARD, though. Jeez, you would think when 2 people want nothing more than to spend time together, it would happen easily, but it is HARD, DANGIT! We are working our way into a pattern of getting the kids to bed (or at least up in our room to watch TV - they don't have anything but furniture in their rooms) at 8:00 and then spening the evening together. We are getting so much closer already. W2S ordered the rest of the book and the workbook today. Looking forward to that. It gives us great stuff to talk about.

Anyhoo - thanks for checking in - take care!


Peace,
LaLa

FWW(me) 37
BS 38
DS 9 & 5
PA 7/06-8/06
Dday 2/17/07

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Originally Posted by Resonance
We've been getting better at spending our UA time - man, is it HARD, though.

Res, does this mean you ARE sitting down once a week (preferably Sunday afternoon) and scheduling your 15 hrs+ of UA time on a calender??








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Originally Posted by Resonance
I missed the meeting last night, but I found another one Saturday morning. I am going to go the Sat morning AND the Tues one next week.


Are these meetings NA or AA?

Are these meetings Open or Closed?

Are these meetings Leads/Speaker or Discussions?

Are these meetings Female only?

Last edited by tst; 06/23/10 05:56 PM.




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Res, does this mean you ARE sitting down once a week (preferably Sunday afternoon) and scheduling your 15 hrs+ of UA time on a calender??

Yes - we are.

As far as your other questions -

NA
Open
Doesn't list the format
Doesn't say whether it is all female, so I would say no.

I'm hoping to get more info in general when I go to the first meeting.


Peace,
LaLa

FWW(me) 37
BS 38
DS 9 & 5
PA 7/06-8/06
Dday 2/17/07

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Also - the reason we picked these 2 meetings in particular was because they are both at hospitals, which I'm hoping are really well run. I'm also hoping that I will be able to find out a lot more than I have been able to find online - there's not a lot of info there, unfortunately. We've both searched extensively.


Peace,
LaLa

FWW(me) 37
BS 38
DS 9 & 5
PA 7/06-8/06
Dday 2/17/07

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Contact the AA Central Office closest to you. AA is very strong where you live and they can help you tremendously. I've traveled to the cities surrounding where you live and attended AA conferences and meetings. I know the strength that exists near you. Ask the Central Office for a schedule of AA and possibly NA meetings close to you, and/or a contact person. They will also help you get the information about the meeting formats ahead of time.

I attend nearly all AA meetings, except for a few rouge NA meetings. Being an addict and an alcoholic I sought both types of meetings early on, but I found very little clean time help in NA, so I stuck with AA. You can attend AA as well. I recommend that you stick to the open discussion meetings with W2S attending with you as well. Closed meetings are not safe for your marriage!! There are way to many men more interested in hitting on new, weak women at closed meetings. Much less of a problem at open meetings.

You introduce yourself as an addict at open AA meetings. They will have no problem with you and W2S attending.

As far as meetings at the hospitals.... Doesn't mean a thing. The meetings are autonomous, which means they do not get outside help. They are organized, chaired and attended by other AA or NA members. They have zero affiliation to the hospital. The group is just renting a room. Regretfully, most of the hospital meetings in our suuounding counties tend to be the worst. Due to the hospitals locations, they attract a lot of street junkies and homeless drunks looking for a free cup of coffee and someone to bum a ride, money or cigarettes from, most of which have no interest in staying clean or sober.





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Just do a search

AA Central Office (city)(state). Major city nearest to you will do it.

You will be amazed with the info out there near you!

AA will help you find contacts for NA too, may take a few calls, but it can happen if you ask. A HUGE amount of addicts attend AA just because of it's strength in sobrity.





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Wow, tst - thanks for the help! I would love to have W2S there with me, anyway, so I will contact the local AA Central Office closest to us.

That is a bummer about the hospital meetings, though...I guess I was kind of surprised at the lack of info out there on NA in general. W2S says there is a ton of stuff on AA, though, so I will go that route for sure!


Peace,
LaLa

FWW(me) 37
BS 38
DS 9 & 5
PA 7/06-8/06
Dday 2/17/07

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Originally Posted by tst
Just do a search

AA Central Office (city)(state). Major city nearest to you will do it.

You will be amazed with the info out there near you!

AA will help you find contacts for NA too, may take a few calls, but it can happen if you ask. A HUGE amount of addicts attend AA just because of it's strength in sobrity.

Already found it - I'll call tomorrow!


Peace,
LaLa

FWW(me) 37
BS 38
DS 9 & 5
PA 7/06-8/06
Dday 2/17/07

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Originally Posted by tst
A HUGE amount of addicts attend AA just because of it's strength in sobrity.

That is what I've heard from my friend here that is a member of AA - she is both an alcoholic and an addict herself, but she has told me that MANY of those that attend AA meetings are strictly addicts - they tend to think of their drugs of choice as "dehydrated alcohol" when attending AA meetings...My friend's experience with NA was not as positive as her experience with AA has been - She found that the NA meetings in our area didn't seem to attract those that were very serious about recovery...

Sounds to me like my friend's experience has mirrored your own, tst...

And LaLa...I understand that your children's activities are important, but they are not nearly as important as your recovery...Their future does NOT depend on baseball practice, but it does depend on your recovery...I never want to hear that as an excuse for your skipping a meeting again - you dig?

I'm so sorry to hear that the little guy is sick - poor fella!

It sounds like W2S didn't attend his meeting on Saturday night either - I'll need to go crawl his butt for that - Here's what I fear - the two of you will decide to put those meetings on the backburner because there doesn't seem to be an immediate crisis right now - but that would be a GIANT MISTAKE...There is a very SMALL WINDOW of opportunity that an addict has to get themselves into a recovery program - once the immediate crisis passes, the addict forgets that they really do need help - the addict mind will talk the addict out of getting help - it then takes another crisis for another window to appear - problem is, that crisis might be the be all end all crisis...there is no time like the present...do NOT miss this opportunity, okay?

Mrs. W


FWW ~ 47 ~ Me
FBH ~ 50 ~ MrWondering
DD ~ 17
Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered

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