Do WHs normally continue to deny and keep up these appearances?

My WW did. Once she knew that I found out the truth she refused to talk about it. A few days later she moved out and I went to Plan B.

What gives me peace is that "I" know the truth.

You're right!!! I do know the truth. I'm just surprised that he is going to such lengths to continue to hide everything. I guess he's trying to hide it from the children, but even they see the differences in his phone habits.

You can't control your WH. His actions or lack there of will speak for themselves. Try not to focus on what he's thinking or doing. Think about what you can do for yourself and your children to become stronger for recovery either way.

HopeE, my WH refused to acknowledge his affair. I installed a keylogger and read these words, "that's why i want to do other things with you so it's not just about sex." That's how I KNEW. He found the keylogger after 2 hours. There was a lot of, "ILYs" "you're cute", etc. When I confronted him, he still denied it. I aid, "You know I installed a keylogger, you found it, think about what you said." His response after was, "Yes." Even after that, he never rubbed my face in it. I knew he saw her everyday and there were times that I knew he was going to her house. He woud just say, "I was in CITY." The name of the city where OW(and now WH) lives. I "knew" what it meant.

It is a CLASSIC cake eater technique too. That way they still have both of you on the hook. They also have a hard time admitting it to themselves. They know that what they are doing is horribly wrong, but their addict brain won't let them stop. I don't know about your WH, but mine would always tell me that he would just ignore a problem so it would go away. That doesn't work, but it is my WHs coping mechanism. That's why I was so happy to accept Plan B, I KNEW I would be in for a LONG HAUL.

Well, I guess I'm in for the long haul too. I'm assuming that eventually he'll be completely open with it and just plain ole live with her. I know he's told her that he loves her with all that's within him.....he accidently texted that to me. He told me that it was for me but he sent it prematurely...pleaaase. Just a continuation of all his lies. I wish I could keep my mind off things.

I'm planning a vacation for me and the kids. I'm hoping we can all go before school starts in August.

What was he supposed to say, "I am a [censored] and I texted that to the wrong person. Disregard that it was meant for my gf?" MY WH did something similar in Plan A where he called home from work and said, "I know you are busy.....hello?" I TRULY believe that he was trying to call OW and dialed HOME by mistake and when he realized what he did, he said, "Did the kids go to school okay today? I was JUST calling to talk about them." HAHAHAHAHA Wayturds.

Affairs are based in fantasyland and they begin with LIES. That is NOT a relationship I would want to be a part of. There can be no TRUST in affairs. I have seen that through others who are in affairs(and my mom, who just ended hers). The APs don't trust that they are being "faithful" to each other, and why should they? The mAP(married affair partner) made a commitment in front of God to love and honour their spouse until DEATH. Now, they went AGAINST their word and VOW and the AP sees that there may not be truth to their words. The OW in my sitch asked me last March, "Why would I want to be with a man who would cheat on his wife?" I asked her that question again when I spoke with her on November 27th, 2009(DDay for PA through keylogger). She answered me with COMPLETE SILENCE.

I tell you that the APs aren't living a happy life with all butterflies and rainbows, but I remember thinking the same thoughts. I remember being so ANGRY because WH gets to have all he wants and I get NOTHING. But I was WRONG. What I have is my dignity and self-respect. I did everything RIGHT. I stayed true to my vows(and continue to even today). I will NOT allow my spouse carry on an affair with no consequences. My self-esteem is NOT tied to what someone else believes about me, it is about what I believe about myself.

I tell you this because you ARE doing the right things. You ARE better than OW. You know this and so does WH. That's why he didn't come to you one day and say, "Hey, HopeE, you SUCK and I found someone so much BETTER." He can't admit it to himself, and he may never be able to. YOU WILL BE FINE. Stick to the plan and see what happens.

Thanks Scotland...I am sticking to the plane and I can see how it helps, but sometimes my heart strings are stronger than my mind. This has been a difficult week and I know that some people are tired of being around me; I'm very quiet and depressed. I just don't want to do much except get on the computer, take care of my kids, or sleep.

I wish I could put my finger on what hurts the most. Is it the lies and deception? The fact that he has never treated me as I should have been treated? He actually said to me, "I must have not been too bad if you stayed with me this long." What about the fact that I believe in marriage and commitment no matter how difficult things are? Also, he said such horrible things to me over the years...mainly about my weight. Even his father, when he was alive, would make ugly comments about my weight. You would not believe the words that I have had to endure over the years about my weight even from my own father and brother as a young girl....then it followed me into my married years. I can't tell you how much I wanted to be smaller and fit. He said I must not love him if I would just pile on the pounds after marriage. When he met me, I was going to a doctor to help with weight loss; he knew it was an issue for me.

He said to me, "It would make me sick to see you feeding your face late at night." I honestly didn't know what he was talking about??? I usually never ate much more than my own children and I still couldn't lose. He said some hateful things to me....I must really disgust him.

After my first child was born....he saw my stomach and said, "What's that chicken scratch all over your stomach?" I told him they were stretch marks and that they were permanent. He said, "my gosh, what's left for the man?" Can you believe he said that to me? That really showed me his heart toward love and family. I know I should have kept myself more beautiful or desireable. I would start to lose weight and then boom...I was pregnant again. He said that I used pregnancy as an excuse.

My self-esteem sucks right now; I guess it has never been that great.

Listen, NO ONE is perfect, your WH said some cruel things to you...mine did too near the end...DO NOT blame yourself for his selfish affair...It was not your fault and did he think that making you feel like crap was gonna make you feel better about yourself?!!!! Uggghhh, dont let him do this to you.

My WH little digs made me feel like crap too...So I am starting not to care about how I look because I was never good enough....but you know what listening to you now I am mad...you are a beautiful person inside and out. He should have been telling you that you were beautiful and made you feel good about yourself....I know if my WH did I think I would have tried harder...he stopped telling me these things and started picking apart things I had no control over too...stretch marks??!!! You had a baby, HIS baby for cripes sake!

Aww, honey, I went off a little but, to me you are a beautiful person and I dont know what you look like, but it doesnt matter...being a beautiful person on the inside makes you beautiful on the outside. Im sorry I ranted a little...

What amazes me is that I have met hopeeternal in person and she is really very pretty. She has lost a ton of weight and is very shapely and attractive. Her face is just beautiful..

Maybe its time to take a more realistic look at your appearance and REJECT unkind and irrational opinions. Hope, surely you can look in the mirror and see that you are attractive?

Yes, please do this Hope...I think your WH helped put your self esteem in the gutter. Well, I KNOW he did!...Dont give him that power. I am so Happy you are losing weight too, keep it up.

"I must not have been too bad if you stayed...."

Truer words - about him and about you.

Because of what I do, I always find it fascinating when people talk to someone and their own words actually reflect advice or thoughts that apply to themselves. In your husband's case - do you see this? HE STAYED TOO.


It must not have been that bad. The fact is that both of you are busy rewriting history.

Your focus right now is on everything you have done wrong.


You - or anyone, for that matter - could go back through your life and point out every little thing you have done wrong. You could look at every outfit you wore that didn't fit right, every cupcake you shouldn't have eaten, every word you shouldn't have spoken, every thought you shouldn't have had, every deed you should have done and didn't, every cross word...all of it.

None gives your WH permission for his affair. None gives him permission or justification to break his vows.


You could look also at the things you have done right.

You - together - created four children. That didn't happen in a vacuum. Something drew him to you. You must have smelled good, or looked good, or felt good....at LEAST FOUR TIMES.

You have gone to the lake together, out for dinner, had family outings, fun times, laughed, had holidays, enjoyed meals, looked at your babies growing up, watched school plays or soccer games, helped those little ones learn to walk and ride bikes...there have been plenty of good times that happened in that marriage. For every time you said a mean thing, you did a load of laundry for him...for every pound you gained, you helped one another raise a child through a rough time.

There is a balance in life, HopeE.

Do not lose sight of that balance. The marriage was not all sadness and meanness and terrible things that you did. Your life was not about being fat and gaining weight and his hatred of you. He might want you to believe this for now, because it works for "his truth".

The "truth", however, stands alone, free and clear of whatever he or you choose to color it to be. The truth simply


is

and any attempts to change it are useless.

It is far more healthy to look at it and understand it, accept it, and work with it - as it stands - than to try to rewrite it. We learn more about ourselves this way, and we move ahead as much stronger people this way, too.

When you look at your marriage, try very hard to look through a very clear lens. Wipe from that lens your husband's harsh words and influences. Wipe also those inner fears and your own voice that tells you that you are not "good enough". Those influences and words, those voices, you know then when you hear them. Tell them that they are not helping you to SEE what you need to see, and to HEAR what you need to hear - which is the TRUTH.

Find that truth - it does exist. Allow the truth to lead you to where you need to go.

Whether that is toward a reconciliation with your husband, or toward a divorce, is yet to be known.

But the strength in your future will be based on facts, and you will be so much stronger for it.


SB

Thanks SB,

You're right....I have many great memories to choose from. I sometimes get sick of thinking about everything, but I can't find comfort in my own mind.

I want to let it go and let him just have her.

I have a mission for you, if you are willing to accept it? Well? Areyou?

I want you to come up with 10 things about yourself that YOU LOVE. At least 2 of them have to be about your appearance.

Write them on here. For ALL to see.

Ok, I'll accept the challenge Scotland:

Here we go:

1. I have naturally curly hair and I've always felt special that i never had to get a perm. I love that I just dry it and head out the door.

2. I have an incredible focus that can drown out the world while I dig in on an assignment or book. The whole world could be crumbling around me and I can still see the task at hand. This can sometimes be good and bad, but i've mostly seen positives.

3. I'm sensative and caring toward others and I truly hate to see others hurting.

4. I'm also dangerously gullible and often put complete trust in others without questions asked. I like this quality in myself even though it betrays me sometimes.

5. I love having 4 children and i would have loved to have more. I always wanted a huge family. My children are my shining glory.

6. I've always been a very smiley upbeat cheerleader sort and people have often commented to me that it seems nothing bothers me. I wish that were true, but I like that people perceive that about me.

7. I like that I've completed so much education....it's made me feel successful and up to speed with my career. It's one of my greatest accomplishments considering my large family and other responsibilities.

8. I love that I accepted Jesus Christ as my savior when i was 14 years old and he has been my guiding light. I've not always sought him as I should, but he gently reminds me and carries me through all difficulties. I love that I listen, correct, and follow even though i take hard knocks along the way.

9. I'm a worker and i always have been. My dad taught me some great values about finding and keeping a job. It follows me even into today. I've worked since I was 16 and I've not been without a job since.

10. I've always had a nice figure even though i struggled with my weight...i guess everything proportioned. I look forward to seeing that shape in the very near future.

Thanks for asking me to do this Scotland....I went on a long walk tonight and came back to this fun assignment.

I am so glad that you found these things about yourself. There are a few IMPROVEMENTS I would like to make however.(I HATE you for number 1 BTW, I ALWAYS WANTED CURLY HAIR )


I would IMPROVE this to, "I am a very trusting person and I like to see the good in people."


IMPROVE this to, "I am a great mother and I get GREAT joy from being a mother."


Improve to say, "I am able to show my best side, even in the face of adversity."

This, CLOSE. What about, "I've always had a nice figure, evenly proportioned."

I think you did an EXCELLENT job. I just wanted you to see some GREAT things about YOURSELF. Things that are true whether WH is around or not. Things that WH CAN'T take away. I have done this list myself in the past. It helps you figure out the positives in yourself so YOU can see what WE all see. YOU ARE GREAT.

BTW, I could have done a list like this for you too and I barely know you.

Thanks Scotland, I knew I needed to make a few changes. It was hard to be 100% positive. I'm still having such a hard time getting WH out of my mind. When did you feel normal again? Do you ever get to a place where you can actually go a day without thinking of H or OW?

I hate what he has done to me and our children.

I don't go a WHOLE day without thinking about WH or POSOW YET. I do however have HOURS when I don't think about either of them or the affair. I think about how much I miss DH(not the WH), but I don't think about WH and POSOW together all of the time. I struggle with this, but the one thing that I noticed was that whenever I heard ANYTHING about WH, I would think about him for a while after. That's why I have been able to tell you that you need to not hear about him. I KNOW what that does. I know how it affects you.

It is something that takes TIME. Since I know that I have it, I am working on improving EVERYDAY. It helps getting a kick in the pants from ML, Pep and the others every once in a while. Because being DARK is not just NC. It is also about what YOU see and hear. One of the MAIN reasons for Plan B is to store away your remaining love for your WH, so when/if marital recovery begins, you will WANT to try it.

You are doing GREAT. Just try to shield yourself from hearing ANYTHING about your WH. I got angry at my WH tonight because I thought he wasn't going to call our 10 year old for his birthday. Then I caught myself. This is BAD for my LB. Since he has NO CHANCE to fill it up, these little withdrawals may take ALL of the remaining love that is left. Gotta keep vigilant. No one's perfect. Like my Dad always said, "When you KNOW better, you DO better."

It's hard to not hear anything from my kiddos. THey come back from their weekend and ready to deliver news to me. I've told them not to talk to me about their dad, but sometimes I know they need to communicate with me about their father. My DD14 and DS11 have been calling me everyday since they have been gone. I'm trying to concentrate on some scheduling that I can arrange with my children for prayer and some daily study. I feel we need that. I know that God is the only one who can get us through this difficult time.

Today was a great day with my own dad and I enjoyed seeing old friends at their church. They are still under the pastoral guidance of the same man that married my H and I. It was very strange to sit among so many people who knew us from the beginning when my husband was living and loving God with all his heart, soul and mind. The truth is I've not seen my real husband for 10 years....after leaving the ministry, he just went back to a lifestyle that I never knew , but that he was familiar with before he came to know Christ as his savior. Sometimes I don't know how to pray for him, but I am praying. I pray he sees the great wrong that he has done to our family and God. I also pray that he receives no rest or peace until he makes things right. I pray that he will one day admit his wrong doing to his children, so that they will learn from his mistakes.

HopeE,

You say you hate what he has done to you and your children.


Someday, I believe that your husband will also hate what he has done as well. I think that his anger shows that he knows his wrongness in this, and that anger is a reflection of his pride. He is a man who is foolishly chasing what he "wants", despite knowing it is all wrong and harming everyone in his life - including himself. Thus, he is angry because he cannot - will not - stop himself. The anger betrays his inner struggle.

When your DS told him that you loved him, and he said that you did not love him - I expected that response. He is rejecting anything that might offer him solace, anything that might offer him forgiveness, anything that might offer redemption...he sees no way out from what he has done. Many of the comments you have passed along here show that. He is resigned to failure.

He sees that he has brought this whole thing down on his own head, and is resigned to allowing it to crash. I wonder if he believes he just deserves it all - the failure, the whole mess, the loss of your love (as he tells your son you do not love him - I wonder if he just believes that you could not love him after all of this).


Stay on message to the kids while you are in Plan B. Let them know that you do not want a divorce, that you still love your husband, that you want him to come home.

Somehow, this feels like a man who is near bottom. He may choose to stay there, or he may choose to take a hand up. You never know. He once had God in his life - he may find Him again. Kids have a knack for helping in His world.