Kayla, I hope you won't mind, I lifted part of this post and put it on my (revised) CARROT STICK thread.

(End thread jack)

This is the most determined I've heard you in regards to ending the marriage...you are getting stronger every day. As much as it hurts it has really helped you to see the depth and breadth of your WH's deception...even when it doesn't involve OW. Although I am beginning to wonder if 'gambling' isn't their code word for hookers or something. Creepy.

I know it is more likely than not that my marriage will end. While I haven't quite accepted this, I realize that I am not happy and can not live this way. However, if WH is willing to go to counseling and fulfill my other requirements, I will give him that chance but I think this scenario is very unlikely.

Actually, much of his deception has nothing to do with OW. She's just part of a bigger, darker picture. Gambling is actually gambling. DH has a rewards card for his favorite casino which he registered for online. I hacked into the account and can verify when he uses it. That's not to say that there isn't something more sinister that I don't already know about. Sounds like he's had experience with strippers and in many cases, they are not much different from hookers. Yes...creepy.

Such is my life. But not for much longer.

Were you happy before you discovered he is a major liar?



This is pretty much how my situation went too. I knew he did't really want to be divorced...but he also didn't really want to do the work required to save his marriage. That is because the 'work' would have involved a lot of his personal character issues. So I really never even gave him the option of going through the motions. If he had begged and groveled and actually took some ACTION I might have considered it. As the months went on after I kicked him out, I used to have a conversation with myself that went something like,

'Is there ANYTHING he could do to get you to take him back?'

I would go through a huge list of things...and all of them combined were not enough. I just didn't trust him enough to believe he would ever be sincere.

I'm pulling for you. email me at (without any spaces) if you need some one on one venting.

Yes, I really was. I was one of the happiest people and considered myself to be one of the luckiest people around. That is, until I found out what was going on in March. That's probably why it took me so long to accept this new reality. I really didn't see this coming.


I'm afraid this will happen to me too - that he won't really want a divorce but he also won't want to do the work to repair our marriage. As sad as it is, I just don't see him giving up his relationship with DB and that is probably the biggest problem we have, even bigger than OW/ButterFace.

Thanks for your email. I will probably be in touch. You've been terrific and I could use all the advice and support I can get.

I have found out that even if I file on grounds of adultery, our state is still pretty much "no fault". However, it might be helpful with custody and it would certainly make him look bad which make it worthwile. My friend works for a divorce attorney and I'm getting a lot of my questions answered on an unofficial (but free) basis (I plan to see the attorney she works for). The good news about that is that she will give me a consulation for free and will work with me on a payment plan rather than requiring a retainer up front. She has a pretty good track record too so I'm comfortable with using her should it come to that.

That's nice of her. It's always good to see lawyers willing to negotiate.

Anne, I'm going to edit out my email address now that you've seen it...would you mind to remove it from the quote in your post?

SmilingWoman - Of course, I took it out. Thanks again!

Originally Posted by anne505

However, if WH is willing to go to counseling and fulfill my other requirements, I will give him that chance but I think this scenario is very unlikely.

This is pretty much how my situation went too. I knew he did't really want to be divorced...but he also didn't really want to do the work required to save his marriage. That is because the 'work' would have involved a lot of his personal character issues. So I really never even gave him the option of going through the motions. If he had begged and groveled and actually took some ACTION I might have considered it. As the months went on after I kicked him out, I used to have a conversation with myself that went something like,

'Is there ANYTHING he could do to get you to take him back?'

I would go through a huge list of things...and all of them combined were not enough. I just didn't trust him enough to believe he would ever be sincere.

I'm pulling for you. email me at (without any spaces) if you need some one on one venting. [/quote]

This is so painfully familiar to me. I was afraid to face my character issues and take counseling seriously. I guess "afraid" is not as accurate as terrified. Of course, I covered up this cowardice with anger and self-reinforcement. I feel so fortunate that DWG did not give up on me, but it was only because I finally faced myself and committed to work on myself. By all rights, she should have kicked me to the curb...or off a cliff. I hope Anne's WH can have a breakdown like I did and begin work to re-build himself as an actual emotional adult. I am a work in progress and will be for a long time. And there is no just compensation for DWG for the pain I inflicted for so long. I hope that my experience can be an example and maybe some day a source of hope for others like Anne's WH. But he has to start, he has to be desperate, and it has to begin immediately.

I love my attorney. Forgive me if I've already told this story...but he just makes me LOL....To get my half of XWH's 401K I had to initiate a Qualified Domestic Relations Order (QDRO---pronounced Quadro). I got the info from the plan administrator and it looked overwhelmingly complicated to me. The plan administrator assured me that I could do it...she would help me correct the language, lawyers charge 100s of dollars to do it, blah blah blah. It still looked hard to me...so I asked my attorney via email how much he would charge...He said,

>>I would charge $500.00. QDROs need to be approved and signed by the judge and then filed with the court. And invariably the plan administrator (401k administrator) sends them back for corrections and changes - even if they provide you a template like the one they've given you.>>>

Well $500 just jumped out at me...yikes! So I wrote back and said, 'ok, I will try to do it myself.' He immediately answered back and said,

>>You are killing me. And the QDRO will kill you. I'll do it for $250. You don't need to do it yourself.>>>

I literally LOL....and then I told him to go ahead and do it for me. I thanked him for the discount and told him 'you rock.'

GM, I am glad you came to your senses. And I hope Anne's WH does as well.

Exactly what was the turning point for you?

I have seen people make these kinds of changes. I know it is possible. I had a 25 year plus year history with my WXH and I was just done. Oh, and the fact that he slept with my cousin pushed me over the edge.

Sorry to t/j Anne....

The turning point was a last and final dumping out of all my secrets and lies and the realization that DWG had actually loved me all along. The pain of remorse and guilt was so great that I literally had an explosive emotional breakdown, could not think or function and had to be admitted to the psych hospital for three days. The whole edifice of my ego came tumbling down, literally collapsed like the twin towers. Strangely, although this was the beginning of real life for me, it was DWG who deserved to break down and end up in the hospital after finding out what I had done to her. I came home fragile, weak, and on anti-depressants, and she ended up having to be careful for me, which she rightfully resents even now. It should have be me taking care of her. It certainly showed who the strong one was. I still could not handle her triggers, which were almost continuous, and her anger, and I would break down. I tried to get off anti-depressants after one year, but I became progressively more depressed for several months whenever she would have some bad days and slam on me for my past. Finally, I had to go back on them. Now I am able to handle the guilt and her AO's and DJ's and be supportive and mature for her, and it is really starting to help her. We are resuming the MB program again. Hopefully in a few more months, I will quit the anti-depressants and see if I can stay off of them. I never dreamed I would develop clinical depression. I had built a huge impenetrable edifice of self-assured confidence and upbeat personality, and that edifice had enabled me to ignore the crumbling foundation under me. I was very successful as a physician, but my personal private life was total mess. All the things that our society teaches boys about "being a man" are entirely the wrong things. Now I am weak, and finally I am learning true strength. Better late than never, I guess. Anyway, this thread is not my story. I was just trying to give some hope to Anne about her WH, if he can somehow have that painful epiphany and flip his character inside-out. There is hope for Anne. It might go a lot easier. I had a lot of years of hiding and a lot to be remorseful and humiliated about, and it was cataclysmic for me. It probably doesn't have to be.

I think Anne will be ok with it...she gets a lot from all the perspectives given.

GM, I gotta say that you do remind me of the path my WXH took. He climbed the corporate ladder, began to work out and suddenly he was a different person. I have no patience with egotistical men... half the time XH seemed insecure and half the time he seemed full of himself. I think he is very confused and shallow.

He put a lot of weight into image. Early on when we were young, (teenagers, high school classmates) it was all about me....he wanted the pretty girl and his entire self worth seemed to be tied up in having me. I never changed much. I am a 45 year old version of my 15 year old self. I didn't gain a bunch of weight or chop my hair off or become 'old and ugly.' I kept myself up and I still get plenty of attention. That didn't seem to matter to WXH. He hated us getting older and he was obsessed by youth and beauty.

So basically there is no competing with that. And I don't WANT to be with a man who is obsessed with youth and beauty.

I felt entitled, and I knew absolutely nothing about marital relationships from the get go. My parents relationship was horrible. I never knew anything else. I demanded and neglected and neglected and demanded some more ad nauseum. I met none of DWG's EN's, and she was a strong, stubborn woman who made sure I knew she was unhappy in many ways that just stoked my anger and made me withdraw further and further. Professionally, it wasn't a ladder I climbed. I was a really great pathologist pretty much from the beginning, but not really good at relationships. It kept getting more and more dysfunctional, and I became dependent on prescription drugs which made it literally impossible for me to see or address my problems. So, It was a little different than your WXH but also similar in many ways. Confused. Not shallow, but might as well have been, because my ability to emotionally connect was blocked. The water was deep, but I couldn't get to it. Very strange. I always felt powerful empathy for the underdog, for kids and animals, and always was generous to good causes and people in pain or in trouble. I was very empathetic in that regard and remain so. People thought of me as a good person, but I had NOTHING for my marital relationship and my exceptional and wonderful wife except for anger and rejection. Though I was successful by most superficial standards, I was a total failure as a husband and led a double life behind her back.

Again, I am expounding on this, which is embarrassing, because this thread is not about me. Nothing is really about me anymore. Everything for me now is about my wife and belatedly being for her what I should have been long ago, and helping her to recover.

For me, this sentence describes my WH perfectly. Thanks for sharing your story. It's always good to hear this from a man's point of view.

Yes, I can see that, Anne. Its a major reason why I am following this thread. I hope that things work out for you and that he can find himself and turn this around. If not, you definitely should get out of this thing without wasting more of your life. If that doesn't happen, nothing but more of the same or worse, awaits you. My best wishes and hopes to you, always.

- GM

I am meeting with an attorney in July (waiting until the kids are in camp so I don't have to worry about babysitting). Once I confront, my life will change one way or another. The outcome remains to be seen but suffice to say that I am not one of those women who will settle. It appears that I have been doing that for long enough. If Dirtbag and this lifestyle he's been leading behind my back are important enough to risk his family for then he can have it. I'm done.

Anything new from the keylogger or VAR?

No. He's pretty busy at work this week (at least Keylogger verified that for me). I think he and Dirtbag are still pretty rattled by that Facebook prank which showed a picture of DB with a one night stand and mentioned some incriminating things about WH. It's been gone for a few days but I think it has them being more careful, especially where email and the computer are concerned.

Were you able to print out that info before it was removed from FB?