This is good....VERY GOOD....

I can't really think of anything else at the moment, but if I come up with anything I'll let you know. I'm trying to think of things that "may" have helped me at the time. Instead, I got denials, denials and more denials......so there was no where for me to go.....

It really sounds like you and your H are doing everything the right way......

Not

@Delta,

Thank you for starting this thread.
This has been a useful thread for many, no doubt.

I am certain it was painful for you, and I am sorry for your pain.

The vigorous discussion with contrary opinions might seem confusing on the surface, but this is a good thing. It probably helps you work out a resolution for yourself.

Take care.
God Bless

You "done good".

In no way are you asking your daughter to lie to her cousin.

Your daughter reveals that there is indeed a problem between the families, and due to an adult circumstance. She also states that this is an adult situation, and then takes the cousin to an ADULT to handle the situation.

There are no lies in this.


What does this lesson teach your daughter?


Plenty.

First, secrets stink. Affairs stink.

Second, there is actual application here for on-the-job behavior. When situations like this occur on the job, such as when there is something that the boss has asked an employee not to discuss (which happens quite often), and another employee or many employees begin asking about, your daughter learns that it is best to simply take the issue to the boss. We have to do this all the time in my particular job, when there are people without clearance who ask questions that I am unable to answer simply because I cannot. I refer them to the boss - and let the people who are higher up do the things they need to do so that things are handled according to THEIR PLANS. I'm not in charge, it is not my decision, it is not mine to handle.

In this case, it isn't your daughter's to handle, either. She should not have to handle it, and shame on your sister for putting her own children and others in this horrible situation. The fact remains, however, that the ADULTS will have to handle it. No lies in this for your daughter, no subterfuge, nothing of the sort.

Simply allowing the ADULTS to handle ADULT situations the way they should.


The fallout is that the cousin will likely call her momma as soon as she possibly can, and it will hit the fan.

But YOUR DAUGHTER should NOT be placed in the situation of being the one to spill the beans on this. She should not be hurt by the fallout, getting the "blame" for all of it, or have to bear the burden of trying to explain how all of the mess happened. Nope. That should fall to an ADULT.

That should go back on her parents. Let them figure out how to explain the issues away, and if THEY choose to lie, ultimately those lies will come back to haunt them.

My guess is that once the cousin calls momma, gets a phone full of garbage, she will come back and ask for the truth. That is when your husband should tell her the truth - without gory details.

But NOT YOUR DAUGHTER. Nope.


SB

And the cousin will know the truth when she hears it.

Hello Delta,

Your situation and mine are very similar.

My wife and my brother had a long term affair and it has changed my family forever...

The good news is that my wife and I are doing great!!!

You are VERY lucky to have some of the same people helping you that helped Mrs.Flint and myself.

You can read my thread on my signature line. You will see a lot of the same things that you are going through there...

There are MANY things that can be made much easier and some that cannot...

Take a look and I will try to answer any questions you might have.

Once again you are VERY fortunate to have found MB.

MB saved Mrs.Flint and myself when we thought the situation was hopeless...

Thanks again to all that helped us!!!

Jim Flint

What a mess?

The affair was in 2002. These kids are now 14-15 and were babies back them.

I see no need to burden children with the dysfunctional behavior of the parents.

I am all for exposure to stop affairs, but I see no point in public flogging of folks that are not actively involved in an affair.

Expose to adults (if that is what you want), but leave the kids out of this mess.

BTW, kids are not likely to spend time talking about this unless they are coached by the parents to do so.

Would you please stop endorsing non-marriage builders advice? There are several threads on here where the posters on here found out about a parents infidelity many many years later�some not until they were adults. And they all want to know why they were lied to and not told the truth. What you�re endorsing is lying by omission of the truth.

Eventually the two cousins will talk. One will wonder why they haven�t seen each other. All it takes is �man, I haven�t seen you in so long.� And the cat�s out the bag. And then the adulterer is stuck explaining to their kids why they hid a secret from them�lied to them.


Why are you here if you're not going to follow MB advice and encourage others not to follow MB advice? MB is very clear--all parties (including the children) are to be told.

oh honestly, Stanley, knock it off. That is bad advice and you are suffering from not following the policy of exposure in your own marriage. Exposure is NOT solely for the purpose of ending of the affair and you know that.

Delta and her husband have ALREADY exposed to their own daughter at the direction of Steve Harley. THAT is the Marriage Builder's policy.

The discussion is about exposure to the COUSIN, the child of the OTHER WS. She is trying to decide how to tell the child of the other WS.

Exposure

I really admire schoolbus' remarks. There is a vast difference between an adult being responsible for telling an adult or their own children about an A. A 14 year old girl should not have to shoulder that responsibility. I feel so much for this whole family, but specifically for the OP and her DD, who is still a child. They should not have to be worrying about this. If I were in this sitch, I would follow schoolbus' advice with my own 14 year old DD. A child should never be expected to be responsible for exposure.

If this situation weren't so sad, this line would be comical......

And you are OH-SO-VERY-VERY-VERY wrong about this Stanley.....

In the very first point, this would be true if we were talking about younger kids, however, we aren't.....we ARE talking about a 14 and 17 yr old, whom are also girls. Girls talk....A LOT....ESPECIALLY teenage girls. They will "talk" even when under strict parental orders NOT to do so. That is a given......

And I say this being a girl, having been 14, and having a parent who had an affair, to which *I* was exposed to.....not so cool.......

Not

Exactly. Kind of like I said earlier, all it takes is one to say, "I can't believe it's been so long since we've seen each other." then you have th other one say, "Well, it's because...."

Wouldn't that be awesome having to explain why you didn't tell the truth and that all those years you were saying that you should always be honest was actually a lie?

Teenage girls thrive on drama. This will either tear them apart OR will bring them closer together. Cuz will probably be horrified and beg DD's daughter not to tell anyone that she knows or get extremely angry with DD's daughter... or some similar scenario. DD's daughter has been lovingly protected by her parents, cuz hasn't.

IMO, why force her to go in the first place? Why put her in that situation? I think I wouldn't let my daughter go near such a potentially explosive situation until S and BIL have told their children the truth, if ever.

If she MUST go, I think SB's way is the best... but I think in the real world, it will be a hard plan for DD's daughter to execute. JMHO.

I'm one of those children who found out about the affair as an adult. Stan-ley - you WILL someday find out how it feels to have your secret ripped away from your control. Because OM is a wild card who still wants to hurt you, and will hurt and use your children to further that ambition.

My mother and I barely spoke for three years after I found out, because I exposed to my husband and Mom went nuts about it like she had a right to make me absorb her little secret and not feel any pain about it.

I gotta tell you it hurt beyond anything I've ever felt; I felt like I had been punched HARD center-mass; the hurt in my heart for her keeping the secret for decades, for my dad, the whole mess was beyond belief.

But do you know what hurt the worst about that whole ordeal? The fact that my mother had made me a part of that affair as a toddler. Then had spent the next several years trying to shut my memories up and make me think reality was fantasy.

So while you protect your wife's secret, you lengthen the amount of time it takes for your CHILDREN to recover and they will NEVER recover their innocence. They've already lost it; they just don't know it yet. Your wife stole that from them years ago.

Secrets always come out. ALWAYS. And unless you control the explosion by doing it yourself, it will come out in a way that harms the solvency of your family the most. Your children may never speak to either of you again. This has drug on so long now that you may have lost that part of "containment".

You choose. The longer you deny the inevitable, the bigger the penalties and interest you will pay.

DD - your niece is going to go through the same explosion some day. Be a soft place for her to land when it happens. Her dad won't be. He will demand she choke down her feelings and deny they exist.

DDD-Are your DD and DN close? Would you say that they would support each other? Your DN will find out and it will be good for her to know that others know and that she can get some support from them. Your DD will be able to help out your DN. My DN is 7 now, she wasn't even 2 when her mother started her affair. An affair that continues until today with the addition of 2 OC and 1 abortion. BIL is "dating" someone else and got mad when I explained to DN that SIL and BIL ARE still married to each other. I did it in an age appropriate way and am willing to answer any more questions she may have for me. I am being HONEST to her when her parents are not. She is not even my biological niece. She is my WH's. She has found out about my WH's affair through my exposure to her as well. She is figuring it out into her own life. That's what kids do.

At the very least, I agree with schoolbus's approach. Your DN is 17, so it will be sooner, rather than later that she will ask you about it.

FTR, I don't think that your H telling your DN would be abusive. It WILL hurt her emotionally but she WILL be better for it in the end.

I wish Melody Lane knew enough about saving marriages that she wouldn't have to rely on quoting Doc H.

Update:

We drove down to my mom's last night (she lives in the same area as S and family), and before we even left home, DD and her C were texting each other about when they'd be seeing each other.

They text each other constantly anyway, so there was never a question of IF they would see each other ... only WHEN.

I've asked DD all along: "what do you think is the right thing to say to C?" She has responded that she feels C has a right to know, that she thinks C's parents should tell her and that she feels so badly for C that her parents have chosen to continue to hide the truth from C.

We've agreed.

We discussed many times how it would never be okay to lie to C and that if any questions arise, it would be in everyone's best interest for her to tell C that her parents should be the ones to provide her with answers. We assured DD that no matter what is said, however, as long as it is the truth, she should absolutely not be worried that she'll say the wrong thing.

Thanks again to schoolbus for providing those wise and loving letters. Even though we've been talking to DD about this issue in person, we gave her a note before we left home so she could have a chance to ponder our words in writing before departing.

On the drive down, C's questions started via text:
"Why are you staying at grandma's?" (we always stay at their house)
"Aren't you allowed to stay at my house? Don't tell your parents I'm asking."

DD chose to kind of blow off C's questions until she saw her. C was at grandma's when we arrived to pick DD up to take her to hang with C and her friends at one of the friend's houses ... they all know one another.

While they were the friend's house, C asked more questions, as expected. Here's basically how DD said it went:
C - "Okay, what's going on with our parents? I know they're fighting. Do you know why?"
DD - "Yeah"
C - "Tell me"
DD - "It's a long story" DD started to cry
C - "Should we go outside?"
DD - "Yeah" They go outside
C - "Is it really bad?"
DD - "Yeah"
C - "Will they ever be friends again?"
DD - "Probably not"
C - "Does it have to do with my mom and dad?
DD - "Sorta. But the reason I'm crying has to do with your mom"
C - "Did she do something really bad?"
DD - "Yeah"
C - "Do I want to know this?"
DD - "Probably not"
C - "Should I know this?"
DD - "Yeah, probably, but you should ask your parents about it. If you want, you can talk to my mom when we get back to grandma's."

DD said they went back inside friend's house. She went to the bathroom and called me from her cell to tell me all this and to prepare me that my niece might want to talk when they got back.

DD and DN walked up to grandma's together and I met them on porch with hugs. DN started to cry. DD went inside. While hugging her the whole time, I told DN that I love her so much, that I will love her always, that I was there the moment she was born and that I will always be there for her in every possible way. She said she knew her mom and I were fighting, but she didn't think it was that big of a deal but now she knows it is. I said, yes, it is and that the right thing would be for her to ask her parents to give her answers and explain things. She asked what would happen if her parents wouldn't tell her. I said then in that case, we would answer her questions at the appropriate time. I told her that she can count on the fact that at the appropriate time we will tell her the entire truth and answer every question she has, but until she is an adult we don't feel that it's our place - but rather her parents' responsibility - to explain everything. I told her that we will always be here for her to talk about things and care for her. I told her that DD is so excited to spend time with her over the next couple days and to call us in the morning. I advised her again to go to her parents to ask them her questions.

So ... we'll find out later if she asked her parents and what they've told her.

---

Our letter to DD:

DD,

We've been thinking a lot about the horrible predicament you've been put in because you know the truth about A years ago and C does not. We have been completely honest with you about the situation, but C's parents have chosen not to disclose the facts to their daughter for reasons we do not agree with.

We make decisions for you. They make decisions for her and will continue to do so until she is an adult. We chose to tell you so you would know the truth about your life, so that we could get through this pain as a family and also so we wouldn't have to deal with this very scenario where relatives are forced to choose what to say and what not say around you for fear they might be revealing a "deep dark secret." We didn't feel that would be fair to anyone, especially you and (brother).

You know the truth of your life because we choose to live with the truth. We have chosen as a family to deal with the truth and try to heal from all the pain it has caused us all.

If you and C are talking and she asks why our families cannot interact as a group any longer, or if anything comes up regarding why our families are not connected the way we were before, we'd like for you to bring her to us. We feel that to put you in this situation -- an adult situation of having to explain anything to her -- is unfair to both you and to her.

Please never lie in any way. Please just bring her to us or have her contact us. We will talk to her about why she needs to talk to her parents about this.

It isn't your responsibility to have to deal with sharing all of this with C, and it isn't your burden to shoulder. These issues and the truth of her life -- those responsibilities -- belong to her parents. We will help her and guide her toward talking to her parents for answers.

Once she knows the truth, we can lovingly help her get through what will be a tough situation. After all, we're getting through it, aren't we?

We love you so much sweetie!
xoxo Mom and Dad

That is why I do not expose. I want to avoid the pain.

DDD, I am absolutely in tears reading this. It has to be so hard for your DD14 to deal with this. It will most definitely make her a stronger person and she is learning the lessons about how the truth is ALWAYS best. Here's hoping your BIL and S will do the right thing by their own daughter, be prepared for some anger though. Even from your DN. Prepare DD for it as well. If your BIL and S do talk to your DN, they most likely will lie. Just let DD know that DN may be mad at her too. This is hard for adults to deal with, it is even harder for the kids.

Stan-ley, the pain is already there. They WILL find out. I found out a lot of things about my family's past and I didn't understand it. I overheard adults talking and I filled in the blanks. A lot of times, I was wrong. I still knew some of the things though and it was much harder to deal with figuring out what was the truth in my life. It ALL effected me.

If you are not going to expose this yourself, you won't be able to assure the right message is sent. That is the MAIN reason I had for exposing. I got to make sure that I knew what message was being sent. I am much more peaceful over that part since I had some control over it.