Alot of folks confuse ketoacidosis with KETOSIS. Ketosis is just a benign byproduct of fat burning and has nothing to do with ketoacidosis. [ketoacidosis is when the body starts burning organs because there is no insulin to halt it - this would only be a threat to those who don't produce insulin] There is nothing unhealthy about burning body fat. Thats how you lose weight! It is much healthier to be in it than not in it.

I have been in it for 12 years now and feel like hell when I am not in it. The body operates much more efficiently on fat metabolism than glucose metabolism because body fat is a much more level energy source than glucose. I have low energy and brain fog when I am not in ketosis.

I would also point out that Atkins is not "carb free." It is junk food free. [your friend is looking for SUGAR or alcohol in the cough syrup, which is junk food]So when folks are eating french fries and bread rolls and junk white rice, we are eating green beans, salads and nuts. We just don't waste our carb allowance on garbage carbs. But in the most extreme phase of Atkins [2 week induction] you get 20 grams of carbs per day: which is a salad and 2 servings of a low GI veggie. However, carbs are not essential and can be bad for your health if not kept in moderation with the right kind of carbs. It is much more important to good health to get healthy fats and proteins.

What is Ketosis?
By Laura Dolson, About.com Guide
Updated July 05, 2008

About.com Health's Disease and Condition content is reviewed by our Medical Review Board

Question: What is Ketosis?
Answer: A lot of people are confused by the term "ketosis." You may read that it is a "dangerous state" for the body, and it does sound abnormal to be "in ketosis." But ketosis merely means that our bodies are using fat for energy. Ketones (also called ketone bodies) are molecules generated during fat metabolism, whether from the fat in the guacamole you just ate or fat you were carrying around your middle. When our bodies are breaking down fat for energy, most of the it gets converted more or less directly to ATP. (Remember high school biology? This is the "energy molecule.") But ketones are also produced as part of the process.

When people eat less carbohydrate, their bodies turn to fat for energy, so it makes sense that more ketones are generated. Some of those ketones (acetoacetate and �-hydroxybutyrate) are used for energy; the heart muscle and kidneys, for example, prefer ketones to glucose. Most cells, including the brain cells, are able to use ketones for at least part of their energy. But there is one type of ketone molecule, called acetone, that cannot be used and is excreted as waste, mostly in the urine and breath (sometimes causing a distinct breath odor).

If enough acetone is in our urine, it can be detected using a dipstick commonly called by the brand name Ketostix (though there are other brands, as well). Even though everyone is generating ketones continuously, this detection in the urine is what is commonly called "ketosis."

The higher the concentration of ketones in the urine, the more purple the sticks will turn. The Atkins Diet, in particular, advises people to monitor ketosis as an indication of fat burning. Other reduced carbohydrate diets don't pay much attention to this, or aren't low enough in carbs to make much of an impression on the sticks. (The latter type of diet is sometimes called a "nonketogenic" low-carb diet.)

Why do some people think ketosis is a bad thing?
There is an assumption that if a body is burning a lot of fat for energy, it must not be getting "enough" glucose. However, there is no indication, from studying people on reduced carbohydrate diets, that this is the case (though there is usually a short period of adjustment -- less than a week, in most cases). Although it's true that our bodies can't break fat down into glucose (though, interestingly, they easily use glucose to make fat), our bodies can convert some of the protein we eat into glucose. Indeed, this works well for people who don't tolerate a lot of sugar, because this conversion happens slowly so it doesn't spike blood glucose.

A dangerous condition called ketoacidosis can develop in those with type 1 diabetes, and it is sometimes confused with normal ketosis. The body usually avoids this state by producing insulin, but people with type 1 diabetes are unable to produce insulin. Even most people with type 2 diabetes who inject insulin usually produce enough insulin of their own to prevent ketoacidosis.

here

This thread makes me happy. Melody makes me happy with her knowledge.

I am happy that you are happy.

Okay. I went from happy to miserable quickly. I managed to put away 3/4 of a gallon of milk, a liter of coke, and a large pizza with canadian bacon, jalapenos, green peppers, black olives, onions, and pineapple. I had a nice 8 egg omelet, bacon, and a waffle for breakfast. I nearly have finished off a bag of doritos. I think what just did me in was the 3 ice cream sandwiches I just ate.

My energy levels are horrid and I look bloated. I'm with Melody that I don't do well all carbed out.

One more day of this. Then I can get my photos and get back to normal.

Am I cheating?

What was that strange sound??? here

haha! I'm very much that way right now. My wife went to the store and decided she wanted ice cream. So she asked me if having this horribly wonderful butterfinger bar ice cream was on my "get fat" diet. I had originally said no. But after that comment, I thought what the hell, let's get it all out of the way.

how in the world did you eat that much food...

I don't think I could eat that much in a week.

Whatever happened to all things in moderation?

If I want ice cream, I have ice cream. A small bowl of ice cream, not an entire carton.

1 bit at a time my dear.

Moderation is not going to give me really bad looking photos.

ohmigosh, you are a nutrition weirdo like me!! I missed these old posts and am catching up now. I have researched nutrition for years.

If you love nutrition have you read the BIBLE, Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes? That is the best book on nutrition I have ever read. Another great resource is Dr Michael Eades' blog. He is the author of Protein Power and the guy is just a genius.

What are your thoughts on Super Slow workouts? Are you familiar with those?

Does your book on protein say anything about the effect of protein on hypothyroid patients? I just finished reading Dr Broda Barnes book and he is citing research that those with hypothyroid should limit protein. I thought that was interesting.

No I haven't. But I will definately look for it on the used books at Barnesandnoble.com Thanks for the suggestion.


If you�re referring to super slow in regards to TUT (or time under tension) then I don�t really have a favorable attitude towards the training style. When you start to increase your TUT to such a drastic extent, you�re increasing muscle fatigue on a lower intensity. I think you�re also activating too much in the slow twitch fibers. I�m much more interested in hypertrophy, strength, and power.

If I had a trainee and we�re working on dumbbell pressing, I�d rather use the 30s for 10 reps with 2 or 3 seconds eccentric and 1 or 2 seconds concentric with maybe a 1 second pause rather than 10 seconds down and 10 seconds up and now we�re using 15s. More intensity leads to the potential for muscle growth. More muscle growth is a good thing.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...ubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

This study cites that soy protein can inhibit the enzyme that deals with the proper functioning of the thyroid. Soy protein can also impair the ability of the body to absorb thyroid medications. The author of the book talks specifically about women and how since they tend to consume larger amounts of soy and tend to suffer more often from low thyroid should try and limit their intake of soy protein.

He does mention that low thyroid can decrease protein synthesis but he has yet to see any true numbers in research as far as a how much of a decrease is happening.

I have a friend reading the book. As soon as I get it back, I�ll look through it again and see if I�m forgetting anything. I don�t think he went into a great detail about hypothyroidism and protein consumption.

This is so true. There are lots of studies out there about how damaging soy protein isolates are. This was the START of my hypothyroidism back in 2005. I can link it back to 2005 when I was drinking a soy protein drink every day. I started feeling cold and tired all the time and gained weight.

Broda Barnes says there is a link between excessive protein [from animal sources] and hypothyroidism. I need to go do some reading pubmed to see what I can find on that.

Thanks so much for the feedback, KT!

I wonder what the criteria is for excessive protein according to them? I'm having a very low protein intake day if I'm only getting in 150 grams in a day. I try to get in at least 200 a day. On the couple lifting forums I frequent, most guys and girls are getting 1-1.5 grams per pound of bodyweight and hypothyroidism is pretty rare.

The sources of protein are typically red meat, chicken, sea food, eggs, and milk. So most are coming from animal sources.

I would say that it is possible that if the thyroid issue is pre-existing, then excessive protein might cause aggrivation. I think if doctors woudld look at both T3 and T4,hypothyroidism would decrease drastically.

Armor Thyroid!!!!

I am a diabetic, insulin dependant. Have been for 20+ years and know a little about keto-acidosis.

When the body starts to burn the stored fat is when ketones start to become present in the bloodstream. Diabetics can get the urine test strips that measure this and they have been available at least as long as Ihave been a diabetic and were used as the primary source to test gluclose control way before the new,(well 20 years ago,) blood sugar test meters we have now. The first meter I had 19 years ago cost $400 and was a PITA.

Ketone is a blood acid. and is NOT good for you. If you are incresing it in your body it is toxic. I think dietary control isthe best way to lose weight. The atkins diet is like eating a rock an poisioning your bloodstream. Of couse you lose weight, your body doesn't have any glycogen and is forced to burn the fat stored along with the fat eaten.

I have had high Ketones many times in the last 20 years and acidosis and I'm not dead yet Lol. It was really high when they found out I was diabetic at 27 and yup, I lost a lot of weight then. I was working two jobs and went down to 140 lbs. . I am 5"9" and now am 80-90 pounds overweight with large bone structure at 260 ponds. My ideal weight is 180.. If I wanted to lose weight all I have to do is stop taking insulin and it will melt off at the expense of my kidneys, no thanks. When I follow my own advice, I lose weight simply by noteating garbage and gain strength by putting goodcarbs in me at 2000 cals a day although I can get by with 1500. Yep like starving huh?

A vegitarian diet, with around 6 ounces or lean meat a day, (yes 6, a lumberjack can work with this much protien from meat), is the best way to maintain proper body weight and balance out wiehgt.

I am not sure if its the same but I have used ketone to remove epoxy from metal, is a main ingrediet in the chemicals used to prep cars for painting and it is a main ingredient in nail polish remover. If this is the same chemical then it makes sense you would lose weight, its poisonous.

Just a note diabetics acquire ketones because they don't take enough insulin to deal with the glucose they ingest thier bodys are forced to burn fat at an increased rate, thus damaging the kidneys also, accelerating the need for dialisis in later life. It can ocorr any time someone burns excessive fat for energy and also for people limiting there carbs to much. Most people can do fine even working out with around a 2000 calorie diet. Carbs get a bad rap because people eat to many simple ones, or ones with no nutrition. Its yes, a balancing act.

"Fat burns in the flame of carbohydrates" and a balanced diet with less calories but good calories is the best. . It will automaticaly reduce the fat and make lean muscle just because you cut out fat. The human body requires about as much linoylic acid,(fat), as can be foundin a large bow of oatmeal it make its own good colesterol. Extreme atheletes might need a little more, like equal to a pat of butter a day.

So the best diet is like grandma used to make, lots of veggies , a slice of bread and a small piece of meat, an don't eat to much you''ll spoil your desert.

Yes, this is exactly right when you are talking about protein from animal sources. It doesn't CAUSE hypothyroidism but once your thyroid is sluggish it doesn't process protein as it should. Therefore, he says limit it to 80 grams per day.

Not so with soy protein isolates. It has been shown to be a cause of hypo.

I read some of this thread to my H while he was driving home from work the other night since he's in the healthcare field. Also we both love to talk about health & nutrition and, big bonus, it meets his EN for admiration (by letting him explain/teach things to me).

Anyway, he agreed that ketoacidosis IS different than ketosis (insulin) but he said he would be concerned about ketosis b/c of acidity, changing the body's ph balance, potassium levels and the risks that come along with that. He explained in more detail than that but that's all I retained...lol.

You guys sound pretty knowledgeable so I am sure you already know the risks but I just figured I'd mention it just in case.