Fantie,

I wonder if OW is going to travel with him this weekend-- take her to meet the family as a ploy to try to normalize the affair in their minds. Pretty typical wayward to try to get the family to believe the affair is making them happy, so it must be ok; after all, who doesn't want their child to be happy?

Has best friend or parents confirmed that your H is actually going?

Uh, why would she EVER leave the house?

Fanti, Dr. Harley strongly recommends telling the children the truth in an age-appropriate way. They KNOW something is up and they are probably confused. Lying to them that Daddy is going on a business trip, etc. is the worst thing you can do.

The BEST thing you can do is to tell them that Daddy has a girlfriend and married people aren't supposed to have girlfriends or boyfriends and that Mommy is sad because of what is going on. Don't sugarcoat it and whatever you do, don't agree to sit down together and spin some story to your children. They already KNOW.

Hopefully, ML will copy you with the relevant articles about this.

Fantie, PM is right. It just teaches kids dishonesty to lie for parents and whitewash the truth. The 5 yr old is old enough to understand the concept of adultery so I would tell him. He will be more screwed up by telling him lies and poison.

Hi Karma, I said just say she will move out (but not follow through) to dampen the idea of being free from all responsibility and his kids.

These waywards just want to be "free", and it will throw cold water on his plan to heat up the A.

tj, Melody, I hope you don't mind, I stole some of your awesome exposure posts from this thread and posted them to another poster ~ obr. /tj

Hope you are doing OK today, Fanti ~ I am following your story along. The only thing I think I was wondering was if you ended up confronting OW or going into the workplace ~ I would definitely follow through on that advice. It was very effective on my sister's OW. Maybe bring a friend or family member along with you for support and to give her some dirty looks (that's what we did).

Update - I am assumng he saw lawyer on 6/24 - he didn't come home that night or didn't call much - Friday he called the the kids in the morning. I talked to him a couple of times throughout the day (told him I signed up the kids for camp - the week that we were suppose to go on vacation and that I took out $120 to pay for it) I also started a file and left it on the counter so I could put all the reciepts in it (so that if his lawyer told him anything about money - so he knows that I am not spending the money any other way than allocating it as we had budgeted (groceries etc)

He forwarded me his interary of his flight back home.He came home that Friday night had supper - we put the kids to bed - I asked him if he was going alone and he said yes (but I can take that as a lie) I can easily visit or call the office next week and see if she is working. Or call one of the guys that I informed. Knowing his parents I know that they would not allow him to bring her up there.

He did tell me that he spoke with one of the guys I told at his office. I called that guy up (because we were all friends outside of his work) after he left - he told me that my WH apolgized for what happened and that it would be strictly business at the office. But what about after work right?

He is coming home this morning - to spend the day with the kids - I have to work tongiht at the hospital - so he will stay here and I have informed him that the house will be watched. Then he will watch the kids while I sleep in the morning and then he will leave on his trip back home.

I also typed him a letter to send to him while he is on the plane - this is what I wrote - WHat are your thoughts or suggestons?


I am really glad that you are getting away to clear your head. It�s been a roller coaster ride for us. I am writing to you from my heart and with sincere honesty in hopes to save our marriage and our family.

I have known you for 15 years and we will have been married for 9 years next month. It saddens me that we are in this situation. I never dreamed that we would be. Everything that I have done recently is in effort to save our marriage. I love you with all my heart and know that you are my soul mate. It's not just the family I want, but I want us back and I want us to be happy again like we once were. Marriage has it's ups and downs and hopefully we will be able to work through this, which is what I want. We both have our faults, and no marriage is perfect. We have been through so much together over the years and have gone through so much to create our family that it is worth every effort to save it and I would hate to see it end.

This said, after all that has happened, I am sure that you understand the need for some parameters. There are two things that I feel are critical to our recovery. First of all, you can not be in a situation that involves seeing her every day. One of you needs to make a change. Secondly, you need to live at home. Living in two different places does not bring us closer and does not help us earn each other's trust again. Even though I am making these requirements, I want you to know that I will relocate anywhere to save our marriage. Maybe it is time for us to move closer to friends and family?


Thanks for listening. I just wanted to lay everything on the table so that you can really sort things out this week.

Fantie, This almost sounds like a plan B letter. Is that what you intend? Plan B is when, after a short period of plan A, you no longer allow the wayward access to you in order to protect your emotions.

If it is just a "here's where I stand" letter, I think you might want to tighten up your language about seeing the other woman. He needs to completely end all contact with her for the rest of his life and return home. And you are more than ready and willing to move anywhere in order to make that happen.

Can someone summarize plan A and plan B. Maybe I am getting them mixed up.

Thanks

Here is the article from this website:

What Are Plan A and Plan B?

by Willard F. Harley, Jr., Ph.D.


Dear Dr. Harley,

My husband and I have separated and are trying to work our way back together again. We have found the information in your web site to be very helpful in reaching that goal. But some of the letters in your forum comment about "Plan A" and "Plan B" regarding marital separation. We have searched your site and don't find an explanation of what those plans are. Could you refer me to material that would give me that information?

C.H.

Dear C.H.,

I suggest plan A and plan B to couples who are struggling with infidelity. From your letter, it's not clear to me that infidelity is the issue that led to your separation, and so these two plans may not be relevant to your situation. But I will explain plan A and plan B to you anyway, and then also address the pros and cons of marital separation when infidelity is not the issue.

Infidelity is one of the most thoughtless, dishonest and cruel acts of self-indulgence imaginable. And yet, for over 30 years betrayed spouses have told me they are willing to reconcile if I can help them find a way to restore love to their marriage, help them overcome the resentment they feel, and provide assurance that it won't happen again. With these conditions in mind, I have created a strategy that has helped thousands of couples reconcile.

My overall plan for marital recovery after an affair has three basic stages. The first stage separates the unfaithful spouse and the lover; the second stage maintains that separation through the period of emotional withdrawal experienced by the unfaithful spouse who is addicted to the lover; and the third stage recovers love between spouses, eliminates resentment of the betrayed spouse, and protects the marriage against future affairs. The goals of the third stage are achieved by following Four Rules for a Successful Marriage: Care, Protection, Honesty and Time).

With this background, we're ready to talk about Plan A and plan B. These two plans are used in the first stage of marital recovery to separate the unfaithful spouse from the lover. They are alternative ways to deal with this objective and are both described in my book, "Surviving an Affair" (pages 75-83).

My experience helping couples recover from infidelity has taught me that any contact between the unfaithful spouse and the lover ruins reconciliation. Even casual contact prevents completion of withdrawal from the addiction of an affair. Since an affair is usually an addiction, the only way to fully recover is to permanently separate the unfaithful spouse (the addict) from the lover (the source of the addiction). But even in the very few cases when an affair is not an addiction, total separation of the spouse and lover is a necessary act of consideration for the feelings of the betrayed spouse. It's the very least a wayward spouse can do to compensate for the suffering caused by the affair. Continued contact with a lover simply perpetuates the suffering of the betrayed spouse indefinitely.

It's been my experience that without total separation, mutual love cannot be restored, resentment cannot be overcome and protection from the threat of another affair cannot be guaranteed. So when I counsel couples who want to reconcile after an affair, I insist on total separation of the unfaithful spouse and the lover with extraordinary precautions to guarantee that they never see or talk to each other again.

But what can a betrayed spouse do when the unfaithful spouse refuses to totally separate from the lover? That's where plan A and plan B come to the rescue.

Let me quote from "Surviving an Affair:"

You may think that after a spouse willfully chooses a lover (over the betrayed spouse), there would be no hope for marital reconciliation, but that's not true. While there is no hope for reconciliation when the affair is underway, as soon as the affair is ended, reconciliation is definitely possible. And almost all affairs end sooner than most people think they will.

But for the betrayed spouse, waiting for the affair to end seems like an eternity. The wayward spouse can't seem to make up his or her mind -- one moment committing to the marriage and the next moment committing to the lover. To help a betrayed spouse survive that painful period of vacillation -- the time it takes for an affair to die a natural death -- I recommend two plans. If the first plan (plan A) is unsuccessful in separating the wayward spouse from the lover, the second plan (plan B) is followed until the affair is ended. This sequence -- plan A followed by plan B -- represents the most sensible approach to handling a wayward spouse's inability to decide between the lover and the betrayed spouse.

So, then, what is plan A and plan B?

Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands. These three Love Busters not only ruin any effort to reach a negotiated settlement, but they also make the betrayed spouse much less attractive to the wayward spouse. Instead of encouraging total separation from the lover, the anger, disrespect and demands of the betrayed spouse make the lover appear to be the only one who truly cares about the wayward spouse. They literally throw the wayward spouse into the arms of the lover.

On the other hand, if the betrayed spouse approaches the wayward spouse with respect and thoughtfulness, the cruelty and self-indulgence of the affair is much easier for the wayward spouse to understand. And once the wayward spouse's mistake is acknowledged, it's much easier for him or her to take the first step toward recovery by agreeing to never see or talk to the lover again.

In these negotiations for total separation, the causes of the affair should be addressed. Since one of these causes is usually unfulfilled emotional needs, the betrayed spouse should express a willingness to meet those needs after the affair has ended. Another common cause is a wayward spouse's failure to take the betrayed spouse's feelings into account. The betrayed spouse's inconsiderate behavior sometimes leads the wayward spouse to believe that he or she has the right to return thoughtlessness with thoughtlessness by having an affair. Willingness of the betrayed spouse to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement goes a long way toward resolving the issue of thoughtlessness.

A third possible cause of an affair is a lifestyle where spouses spend much of their leisure time apart from each other, and form leisure-time friendships with those of the opposite sex. A plan to avoid being away from each other overnight and making each other favorite leisure-time companions goes a long way toward creating a passionate marriage that is essentially affair-proof.

In general, a betrayed spouse's effort to encourage the wayward spouse to end the affair should address all the root causes of the affair, and offer a solid plan for marital recovery. It should not be one-sided, however. The plan should make the wayward spouse and the betrayed spouse equally responsible for following the overall plan.

But plan A, an effort to end the affair with thoughtfulness and care, doesn't always work. In many cases a wayward spouse is so trapped by the addiction that he or she does not have the will-power to do the right thing. Once in a while the fog lifts and the cruelty and tragedy of the affair hits the wayward spouse right between the eyes. In a moment of grief and guilt, he or she promises to end it. But then the pain of withdrawal symptoms often brings back the fog with all its excuses and rationalization, and the affair is on again.

Sometimes a wayward spouse settles into a routine of having his or her cake and eating it too. In an effort to win the wayward spouse back, the betrayed spouse meets emotional needs that the lover cannot meet, while the lover meets emotional needs that the betrayed spouse has not learned to meet. While this competition is excruciatingly painful to the betrayed spouse, and the lover as well, the wayward spouse basks in the warmth of being loved and cared for by two people, with no real motivation to choose one over the other.

So, to avoid an indefinite period of suffering while a wayward spouse vacillates between spouse and lover, and to avoid rewarding the selfish behavior of having needs met by both spouse and lover, if plan A does not work within a reasonable period of time, I recommend plan B.

Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery. In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible -- love is not restored, resentment is not overcome, and there is a very great risk for another affair. Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B.

Since plan B (and plan A, for that matter), is extremely stressful for the betrayed spouse, I usually recommend that he or she ask a physician to prescribe anti-depressant medication to be taken throughout the crisis. This not only greatly reduces the suffering of the betrayed spouse, but it also helps keep a clear head at a time when patience and wise decisions are crucial. Anti-depressant medication does not numb the betrayed spouse to the crisis, it actually helps raise him or her above emotional reactions that would otherwise prevent clear-headed thinking. Why suffer and and make poor choices when anti-depressant medication can help ease your pain and improve your concentration in this time of unprecedented crisis?

While I have seen remarkable success by people using plan A and plan B, success is by no means guaranteed. The problem with Plan B is that the unfaithful spouse may not return, nor agree to the plan for recovery, even after the affair has ended. Separation in marriage is always risky because, "out of sight, out of mind." Unless plan A leaves the wayward s pouse with the impression that returning home is an attractive choice, separation can become permanent. So before implementing plan B, you want to be sure that the last thing your spouse remembers about you is the care and thoughtfulness you offered in plan A. That way, the separation can help create, "absence makes the heart grow fonder."

As it turns out, most affairs end within six months of their seeing the light of day (being revealed to their family and friends), and almost all affairs end without leading to marriage. Even those few that end in marriage have only a 25% rate of success. That's because affairs are based on dishonesty and thoughtlessness for the feelings of others. That same dishonesty and thoughtlessness eventually turns on the lovers themselves, and the affair is destroyed by those same flaws that made it possible in the first place. What drives affairs is passion, not commitment, and once the passion wanes, there is nothing to help the lovers restore their passion. Marriage, on the other hand, especially with children, has many factors that motivate couples to restore their passion for each other after passion has waned. So when passion is gone from an affair, a wayward spouse is usually motivated to return to the betrayed spouse by all of these other factors. For most, it's a logical choice.

But what about marital separation when an affair is not the issue. In your letter, you did not indicate why you had separated. It may have been for reasons other than infidelity.

In general, I recommend separation when at least one spouse cannot control destructive behavior. An ongoing affair, of course, is one of those situations. Hence, plan B. But other situations such as physical and verbal abuse, where one spouse's mental or physical safety is as risk, are also grounds for separation. As in the case of infidelity, if one spouse is abusive, I often recommend plan A first, where, through negotiation (without anger, disrespect or demands), an attempt is made to overcome the abuse without separating.

But in some cases, the safety risks are so great that plan B should be implemented immediately, with no time for plan A. In these cases, treatment for the abusive habit must take place during separation, and some evidence must exist that the risk has been greatly reduced, or completely eliminated, before the spouses should return to each other. Then, after being together again, the formerly abusive spouse should be held accountable by others for his or her behavior to assure the other spouse's safety.

In other cases, such as annoying behavior or failure to meet important emotional needs, where thoughtlessness does not reach the level of physical or mental abuse, plan A should be given quite a bit of time and effort before resorting to plan B. Remember, plan A is negotiating (without anger, disrespect or demands) to eliminate the annoying behavior or improve the meeting of emotional needs. A blanket agreement between spouses to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement goes a long way toward eliminating these thoughtless acts, and can also help couples learn to meet each other's needs with enthusiasm. But without that policy, couples often find that they cannot get anywhere with each other through negotiation, and sometimes separation can eventually lead to mutual recognition that they need the Policy of Joint Agreement to help them resolve conflicts.

But, as I mentioned earlier, the risks of separation are great. It should be used only as a last resort to help resolve a fatal flaw in marriage. Once separated, couples often never do reconcile, remaining separated for life, or they eventually divorce. A fact unknown to many is that fifteen to twenty percent of all married couples end their lives permanently separated. These, who are not included in divorce statistics, usually feel that they should not legally divorce for religious reasons. But for most practical purposes, they are as divorced as those legally divorced. Their separation did not create the opportunity for reconciliation, but rather, created an even higher barrier between spouses.

So whenever spouses separate, I usually encourage a plan that moves them toward eventual reconciliation. From your letter, it sounds as if you are moving in that direction, and you simply need to know when it would be the right time to move back together. And you may want to know more about full marital recovery after you have ended your separation.

The four rules to recovery that I recommend after an affair are marital rules that every couple should be following. So they should form the basis for any plan for recovery after a separation. Since the four rules cover every conceivable problem that married couples face, they would address the issue that led to your separation. If you were to follow these four rules as part of your plan for recovery, I guarantee you that you will not only eliminate the problems that led you to separate, but you will also resolve many other conflicts that have prevented you from having a successful marriage.

I encourage you and your husband to make a commitment to follow the Four Rules for a Successful Marriage: Care, Protection, Honesty and Time, and once the commitment is made, end your separation and begin a marriage that will last a lifetime.

Thanks

Update - he came home on Sat. morning and was here until 2pm on Sunday. He was very nice, and polie and even laughed with us. I went to work Sat. night and he even called me to say goodnight that night. My neighbor looked throughout the night (up and down the street) and no unusal car was on our street.

A friend of mine sent him an e-mail saying stuff she wanted to say to him about how her hubby could write a list a mile long on reasons to leave her and how he had such family valuves - I never in a million years thought that he would answer her back and he did.

It seems like he is somewhat back to his old self but I have no idea if he is just buttery me up or did he pull his head out of his a-s? He is at his parents, and i drove by the office today and her car was there. Took down her license plate number.

i did found something out that was distrubing. I found her on my space and her user name which I googled and found out that 4 years ago she posted something on a site that said she was bi-polar and had borderline personality disorder. This freaked me out - no way is my kids ever coming near her. I wonder if he knows this - but I sent the link to our friends up there and I know that they will do the job to tell him.

He gets back on Thrusday evening.

Fantie, How are you feeling?

Confused - apprehensive, a friend pointed out to me maybe why he is being so polite is because the OW broke it off with him, because her daddy pays the bills and the father confronted her and the father told her to break it off.

He is going out with our mutual friends in his home town tonight. they know about the affair and were appealed what he has done and they plan to confront him and report back to me. He did tell me that he was going out with them tonight - was he in his fog and didn't remember that I told him that I told them.

How do i know if she broke it off with him, and that is the reason why he is being so nice?

You might not know immediately. Just continue to watch and listen and it will soon be clear. Trust nothing from your H.

Oh man, I am tired - where's my break? He was at a hotel last week and this week he is up at his parents house in the North East (confirmed that the OW is not with him). When he called tonight to say goodnight to the kids he asked if I worked Sat. night because he wanted to change his flight from Thursday to Sat. I am thinking, well I am sure glad that you got to get away - I am here, have been here taking care of the kids, the house, the laundry etc. Where is my break?

He went out last night with his BF up there. His wife reported back to me today that they were out for 6 hours and talked - my WH told his friend that it was a mistake to have the affair and he should have handled our problems differently. The OW was not talked about much - and he didn't tell his friend what his plans were for the future. THe wife of my WH friend tells me all - they are all going to get together and the other wife (my friend) will find out what is really going on. As we know men don't talk - when she asked what was said her hubby was like yes he told me about the affair - and she was like you were with him for 6 hours - what else - but men can't chat or repeat like women can.

I feel like the time apart is making me grow distant from him. I could easily go out and if a guy payed attention to me it would make my night - I am loney and wanting/needing that connection.

I feel like he is running away from the problems and doesn't want to deal with it.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

The obliviousness to you exhaustion is part of the package. It is all about him right now.

What did you tell him about changing his flight? If you haven't responded this might be the time for some gentle honesty.

"I am exhausted from the last two weeks and you are needed at home with your children. Take Friday off from work and spend the weekend with your family. This time apart is putting me in a bad place."

And Do NOT under any circumstance give in to the temptation to go out and find some attention for yourself.

Thanks. That is a good suggestion. When he calls this morning I will mention that.

Well he is going to stay until Sat. now. When does it stop being about him and about our marriage? Things were not that bad and I was not that bad of a wife/person for all of this to happen.

Do I just sit patiently and wait? That is really hard for me to do. I am starting to feel resentment towards them that he has tripled my workload and I have been with the kids for the past 2 weeks (probably longer since he has been so wrapped up in the affair)