Thanks Scotland, of course you are right.

I'm learning this everyday. It's funny when I talk to others who have been through this without MB and they talk about all the altercations that they go through with their spouses. I can look at them and say, "not me, I don't see or talk to him" Many tell me they don't know how I do it because they would want to give him a piece of their mind. I told them that giving him a piece of my mind only takes away a part of me.....it's not worth it.

That's it exactly. You are worth MORE and you are a better person than the person you would be if you did give in and give him a piece of your mind. I like to write out exactly what I feel towards WH and OW and then I destroy that piece of paper. The anger and resentment is a process to make us better. We have to walk through it.

You are doing so well and I must say that when you first got here I was in AWE at the strength and commitment you showed. You continue to show that determination each day. I know it isn't easy all of the time and that sitting around thinking leads to some pretty stinkin thinkin. You WILL grow and get better day to day. Keep it up.

God grant me
SERENITY to accept things I cannot change.

COURAGE to change the things I can.

WISDOM to know the difference.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The thing about giving the wayturds a piece of your mind is .... It falls under the category of things you cannot change.
You cannot change another person's thinking or behavior.
No matter how RIGHT you are.
No matter how WRONG they are.
No matter how hurt you are.
No matter how angry you are.
No matter how dumb and stupid they are being.


Plan B is all about courage to change our own thinking and our own behaviors.
In spite of the desire to wring the wayturd's neck.

Plan B is serenity courage and wisdom.

Thanks Scotland and Pepper,

I'm learning this everyday. When I received that scripture from God about letting the dead bury their own dead....it was a turning point for me. God keeps reminding me of that verse everytime my minds drifts back to the WH and OW. When I have this type of thinking, it means I'm picking him back up again and carrying him like a burden on my back...it weighs me down.

This is a long process...ugh. I'm such a fixer...I've always wanted to make things right or beg forgiveness for my lack of wifely skills. I realize that I can't force him back to the table. I can't believe how much we've shared with each other and he's willing to walk away from all of it....but I can't go there or I'll be sitting around all day.

Today is my DS's 10th birthday....I remember so clearly that I rolled over in bed that morning and my water broke. I washed dishes, cleaned up and took a shower. In a matter of a few hours, I was having a 9 lb 9oz baby boy. He's my third child and such a joy. He's my laid back....no worries child. We had him right after moving back from Indiana....where we were in the ministry for 7 years. We started a new work there and it was probably my fondest memories of our marriage....I loved it there even though I was not close to my family.

Ok....I'm done with memory lane:)

10 year old boys are just so fun to be around.
Before the hormones.
Before they get that really weird body odor.

Enjoy.
to your boy.

Thanks Pepper...I'll pass it on to him....he's a great kid.

HopeE,

I would have left the movies after telling the child the behavior I expected from him, if noncompliance continued.


"I want you to use your normal voice. I want you to stand in line calmly. We have popcorn and soda, that is the snack I have chosen for this movie night. Do you understand? Normal voice, stand in line calmly.

We will have to leave without a movie if you cannot stand in line calmly, and use a normal voice. Do you understand? We will have to leave if you cannot use a normal voice."


Then, we LEAVE.


Yes, the other children DO get upset. This is a NORMAL consequence of behavior.

wow...ok. Today was another battle of the wills. He wanted one of my weight watcher ice creams. He had already had cake/ice cream plus lunch. They know that my WW ice creams are off limits. When I said no, he went into a massive fit. I told him repeatedly that he could choose to speak calmly and watch the movie or he could go take a nap. He did not calm down, so I put him to bed. He lay in bed screaming for 30 minutes before he fell asleep. My problem is....tomorrow there will be another battle of the wills....and I'll use nap time again. It just doesn't seem to change things. I'm trying though.

Regarding fits:


You need to understand that fits are thrown because YOU get upset about them. Therefore, they WORK for him.

So, take the power out of them. How?

Stop letting the fits bother you.

Fits are only as effective as long as you get worried or upset about them.

Here's your new "fit plan".

1. Tell him WHILE HE IS NOT ANGRY AND NOT HAVING ANY TYPE OF FIT that you have decided that he can go ahead and throw fits. It is fine, as long as he throws them in a specified place - his bed is your place of choice. He can have his fits in his bed, for as long as he wants. That is okay.

2. When he begins to have a fit, you CALMLY look at him and say, "Oh, I see that you need to have a fit. Remember, you are fine to have a fit, but you need to have it in your bed. Go ahead on. I'll check on you when you are calm. Let me know when you are through, so we can go ahead with what we were doing."

3. He goes to the designated fit-throwing place. YOU DO NOT DO ANYTHING. No talking to him. No begging him to stop. No talking him out of the fit. Nothing to interfere with the fit. You do not look worried, upset, concerned.

The fit belongs to HIM, not to you. It isn't any of your business - at least he gets that message!

4. As soon as he makes ANY indication of being quiet - for at least five seconds, you step in and say, "Are you done? I would like to get back to what we were doing." Chances are, the very first fit he has, this first time he will escalate the screaming - just for show. You say, "Oh, well. Thought you were done. Let me know when you are." And leave again.

Wait it out. When he is quiet again, ask again. "Are you done yet? I was looking forward to doing X, but we can't until you are done with your fit." He might still want to scream - fine. He might say he's done, but you might be able to tell he's still on the edge. If he is still on the edge, you can say, "I'm not sure you're done. I think you might still want to argue about (the ice cream, the movie, whatever...), so are you sure you are completely done?" He will let you know.

5. If he says he is completely done, say, "Great. Let's finish what we were doing. Glad you're done." AND DO NOT MENTION THE FIT AGAIN, NO MATTER WHAT. See, you do not CARE about the fit. It does not affect you - you are completely unemotional about it, and it does not belong to you. It was his fit. Do not hug him, do not comfort him, do not help to calm him. Allow him to do all of that for HIMSELF. He escalates, he calms. The fit is HIS to deal with - he brings it on, he eliminates it.

6. If he re-escalates, you calmly say, "Oh, I think maybe you weren't really done. You can go back and finish. Let me know when you are ready, and we can get back to this again. No problem." And take him back, repeating the process until he is back under his own control.



The key to this is that you do not show any emotional upset, no anger, nothing of that kind to him. You do not attempt to buy in to his fits, and you do not take ownership of his fits. These belong to him - and he will learn to stop - VERY QUICKLY - if you change your reaction and behavior when he starts throwing them. He takes over the control of when they start, how long they last, and when they end. You only control where he has them.

One of the important features also is that you must immediately give him an "out" - which is the part where you step in, without judgement, and ask him if he is done yet. You don't mention the fit at all when he is done, just talk about what comes next. This allows the child to focus on the activity to come. I usually try to pair it with something fun, if the fit is in reaction to having to do a chore that he doesn't want to do:


________________________________
"Not going to do my homework fit"
Me: Are you done yet?

Kid: No and I'm never going to be done and I hate you!
Me: Okay. I was just hoping that when you finished your fit, then got your homework done that we could make some cookies. But that was just my idea. I can wait until you are done. Let me know when you are done.

Kid continues fit.....later on quiets......

Me: Are you finished with your fit yet?
Kid: No. I hate you.

Me: Okay. Let me know when you are done. Remember that when you are done with the fit, you can still do your homework. Maybe we could do some cookies or something great like that after homework. Let me know when you are done with your fit.

Kid: I will never be done.

Me: Okay. Let me know.


Kid continues.....usually he will get quieter and quieter, because he realizes I really don't care one way or the other. As soon as he is quiet now for about 15 or 20 seconds (because I've checked a couple of times and he is still talking back!)..

Me: You seem quiet. Are you finished?
Kid: I still don't want to do my homework.

Me: Let me know when you are ready.


And I wait. Ultimately, they yell: "I AM READY!!!!"

And I go back in. "Okay. Homework's there. Let me know when it's done, or if you need any help. Maybe I can help you out if something's really hard or anything. As soon as that's done, let's see how the cookie idea works, or if you have a better idea - let's hear it!"


_________________


The kid still has to do what you said he has to do. The fit buys him NOTHING. You do not care, you stay unemotional - until he does WHAT YOU WANT. Then, you are nice again.


This works faster than you might think. Three fits, and you will see a vast reduction in the length of the fit, the strength of the fit, and the frequency will fall off dramatically.

Try it.


Also, before you go out anywhere with him again, I would have the home fits handled. I would explain to him that he is not "trustworthy" to take out because he throws fits in public - and until he can control himself at home he cannot go to a store with you. Again, consequences - tough love.

Then, when you go anywhere, you explain that any hint of a fit outside the home will result in immediate return to the house, no questions asked.


SB

If this sounds tough, it is. I had to do it with my own child. Fits were eliminated in under one week.

Ok...thanks SB...this sounds great. I can do this. As a matter of fact I just tried it and it was great.

Why do all my issues with him involve ice cream...:)

DS7: "I want ice cream cake."

Me: "You know you can't have that because the icing gives you welps and it's dangerous."

DS7: "Then I want another ice cream"

Me: "No, you've already had your ice cream; you can't have another one."

Immediate fit thrown

Me: "Ok, if you are going to throw a fit...then it's time for bed.
DS7: "Ok mama...I won't...I'm sorry."
Me: "no you're going to bed till fit is over."

He wasn't even in there 5 secs before stating that he was done. I know it will take more tries at other times.

I can do this....I have to do this.

Now,,,,,tell him that he CAN have all the fits he wants!

He just needs to have them in the bed. That you no longer care if he has fits, just has to have them in that one place.

Next fit, just say, "Oh, you're going to have a fit. Remember, you can have it, just go to your bed til you're done. Let me know when you're done."


You can do this - and those fits WILL BE DONE - watch and see them vaporize.

Ok, now I'm facing another issue. I think I'm going to go out to the lake and catch WH and OW together. I believe that she is out there and that's why he canceled his weekend with the kids. My children told me when they talked to him that they could tell he was out there.

Please tell me why I shouldn't do this? He thinks because I filed for divorce that it's a free ticket to flaunt his A. See, everyone on here's husband seems to openly be with the OW. Mine won't because he doesn't want me to think it is still on or for his children to see that it is true. How can they love bust each other when they are still in their affair sneaking around? They won't live together until the divorce is final. I think I've given him a ticket to for infidelity.

HopeE, you did not give him the ticket for infidelity, he got into the infidelity realm withouto one. He is in an active A.
He might deny it, but he is. My WH up to now has not admitted that he is seeing the neighbot OW. He is telling son and IL that he is seeing someone else but so far this someone else has no name. Again, this was up to a couple of months ago, so 8 months after plan B.
They will hide it as much as possible.
Hope, IMO, if your WH wanted to end the A right away it would have happened soon after the exposure (he can deny it, but everybody knows about the A and OW, right?)
Usually if exposure does not kill the A right away, then it will take some time for the A to die a natural death. Even years.
You going to the lake is going to make the A stronger because now they will both demonize you. Your H will say: see I told you how crazy she is and OW will capitalize on that. You being the common enemyenemy will make their bond stronger.
Your strengh is in ignorying their existence.
It does not matter what your WH is telling himself in his stupid little head. HIS ACTIONS spaek volumes. Let him make his mistakes and let him live with them.
DO NOT MAKE A FOOL OF YOURSELF, KEEP YOUR DIGNITY. THAY ARE NOT WORTH YOUR ANGER, TEARS OR TIME.
BLESSING

I didn't go.

I AM SO GLAD YOU DIDN'T GO.

I was at work when you posted that you were going and I was reading it right now thinking, "THERE IS ONLY ONE REASON YOU SHOULDN'T GO. PLAN B PLAN B PLAN B." I am relieved you chose NOT to go. You CAN'T CONTROL what WH does and doesn't do. My WH is living with OW and takes my DSx2 there when he visits with them. If he had had it his way though, he would have left, lived with her and come HERE to watch the kids. Who knows when he would have or IF he would have introduced the kids to her. Doesn't matter now. Plan B affords me the luxury of not giving a crap what he does.

There are times when I think about WH. There ARE definitely times that I still miss the life I wanted and thought I was getting. Thing is, a long hard road. One thing that sort of helped me was when someone posted to me, "Your dear husband is DEAD." Hurts, but oh so true.

Keep one foot in front of the other.

I know what you say is true Scotland and I feel I drive people crazy on this site with my weakness to accomplish all this. My self-esteem is at an all-time low. For some reason, today has been rough. I guess I'm always thinking...the gall of her or him...how can she or he just take what they want without thinking of othersa?

I feel some kind of ownership even though I know we don't own anyone.

I realize they are selfish beings with no thoughts of others.

Oh contraire my friend. I am NOT getting driven crazy by your actions AT ALL. I DO NOT want you to feel that way. Instead, what I am trying to do is nudge you out of your own head. Sometimes I need those same nudges. What good would I do if I sat here saying, "Oh my, he has the OW at the Lake house? What are you going to do about it?" How would that help you stick to Plan B? If you had a different goal in mind I would help you get there. Right now, you have asked for help and support in understanding where you are coming from and keeping you on course. That is what I am here to offer you.

And....I so appreciate you especially knowing you have your own pain. I hope I'm where you are in 6 months. I so need the support, but I hate when I have been doing so well and then I slip into some funky depression.

I know hun, I get the same way. You ARE getting stronger everyday. You came here with some incredible strength and I see you getting stronger and stronger. You get into a funk(as well you should) and you need us to help pull you out. We are here for you.

Believe in your strength. See how amazing you are. Read the beginning of your thread again and see how far you have come. MANY people would NOT have done half of what you did in more time than you did it. You HAVE and you continue to show INCREDIBLE strength.

You didn't go out to the Lake all on your own. Now, how strong does that make you? Instead of focusing on your unfair sitch, focus on the positives. You are doing GREAT. Keep it up.