I am so thankful for this site! Thanks to all who are willing to share their journeys. You serve as an encouragement to me.

Here's my story.

Last summer, my 16 y.o. DD discovered that my H (50 y.o.) had been having an A with OW 20 years younger. The affair had been going on for about a year. I was told "I love you but I'm not in love with you," that he just wanted to keep things the way they were (A on the side while he lives at home), that he has a right to be happy, that I am incapable of being the right woman for him... blah, blah, blah... Within a week, he was sorry and wanted to come home.

A few days later he waffled and wasn't sure what he wanted. Then he told me he wanted a divorce via email the next month. I went to Plan B at that time - no contact except via email/text if it related to the kids.

By September he wanted to come home and agreed to my terms (1. no OW, 2. get help with binge drinking problem, 3. marriage counseling). Said he was serious, would do whatever it took. He loved me. Within a few days he was angry with me for putting stipulations on his return. He went into IC for about 3 months to help him work on his anger issues and then told me his therapist said he was "fixed."

In February I asked if he was still talking to OW. He said he was, "we (meaning him and her) are alike - we did the same thing." I told him there was no place for her in our family. Again, he was angry with me for putting stipulations on his return. I told him that working on these areas is the only shot our marriage has at healing. He said he wasn't sure he wanted to go to MC. Wasn't willing to talk about the A - "no good will come out of going back to the past."

One more thing. Upon hearing that WH wanted a D, my DD16 has refused to have anything to do with him. She says she does not respect him or like him. She has not spoken to him since July. He blames her for why he cannot come home as well.

So, the kids (DD16, DS13) and I are finding a new normal. We have tremendous support from my family and my in-laws. My WH ended relationships with his family about three years ago. He has also turned on his religious faith - now says he doesn't believe any of it. He is a lost, lost soul. He sees our son maybe once a week. This is a terrible, terrible thing to go through. Can't count the number of tears I have cried - for myself and my children. My WH used to be very involved in the kids' lives. Now it is like he is buried in shame.

This past year I have spent gobs of time in IC, AlAnon, reading books and attending to myself in a way I had forgotten. The kids are doing as well as expected - I hate that this is their story. My son's explanations to his friends this last year? "My dad cheated on my mom."

We took our first family vacation without WH last week. We invited my sister and her family to go with us to Florida. We took a big group picture. My sister wanted a picture of her family. When I asked to take a picture with me and the kids I had a near revolt on my hands! They did not want to take a picture - but it was ok for them to take one with the whole family. The levels of loss and grieving in this situation is staggering!!!

We are picking up pieces while my H gets to live like a 20-year-old free spirit (he is 50). No responsibility - pure spontaneity - no accountability. Me? sometimes I am jealous of this freedom - but then my inner grownup shows up and I wouldn't trade my life with my children or family for anything!

We are separated - not legally - just separated. My attorney tells me this is the best situation for me right now. She said, "At some point the dance floor closes and these guys go home - alone. Give this some time."

So, whatever happens with my M, I know this time is about me as an individual and as a mother. A lot of growth has happened over the last year. I still hope WH will get the help he needs. How long I will continue to feel this way, I have no idea. Living one day at a time has been my best plan so far.

Sorry you are here, but this is the best place for you to help you and your marriage, first thing I suggest is read everything on this thread

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2399825&page=1

Then I would read all the articles on this website their is a lot of material but it is all really good advise!

Do you want to save your marriage?

If so then I suggest you start reading up on Plan A and Plan B.

Read "Surviving an Affair" and "His needs, Her needs"

Good luck !

One day at a time is correct.
Hold your head high!
You are doing great considering the situation.

Your WH reminds me of another BW's wayward. Her name is Believer.
He left his wife and took up with a woman half his age.
They spent all his money, and once that was gone, OW dumped him.
Then, Believer's WH wanted to "come home".
Unfortunately for him, Believer had a less than zero love bank for him.
She was kind, but still, her answer was "no".

Later, he killed himself.
Tragic reminder of what the future can look like for waywards who squander their integrity for a fantasy fountain of youth.
They become soulless.


Guard your children from his wayward influence.

Prayers for you and your children.

Welcome to MARRIAGE BUILDERS

3s,

I am so sorry to hear all the you have been going through. Your story sadly reminds me of my mom's best friend at church when I was a kid ("Aunt Eileen"). E's WH ("Uncle Harry") had an affair with a much younger OW at work which lead to a divorce when he refused to end it w/ OW. He ran off on his BW and their 2 kids to affair-marry OW--moving out-of-state and abandoning all pretense of fatherhood besides a monthly check and sending occaisional b-day/Christmas gifts. [E's son, Michael, was 5 years younger than me and I sort of became a de facto big brother to him.]

About 7 years later, E's xWH split from OW/W#2 (rumor had it that she left him for an OM), and xWH came calling in an attempt to reconcile with E and ingratiate himself back into his kids' lives (now in their late-teens/early-20s). The pain had been too great and the period of unapologetic unrepentance had been too long. E and both the kids told him so and would have nothing to do with him whatsoever. Harry ended up moving again, marrying a 3rd time, divorcing a 3rd time, and died alone having never seen his kids again and never met his grandchild.

This is the path of self-destruction that results from selling out one's values, principles, dignity, and family for the short-term 'fix' of emotions. It sounds like your WH is well on the way along that very same path. I really hope that he takes his head out of the sand and looks hard in the mirror before he loses his wife, family, and children forever. His affair-partner is NOT the answer to what is ailing him.

I wonder...do you think it would be a worthwhile to re-Plan A him for a brief time and then resume your dark Plan B?

I'm just thinking that perhaps "planting that seed" back in his mind about what he COULD have might jar him now that he has experienced the disgust of his kids and family...just a thought.

Once again, I am so sorry for what he has put all of you through.

What do YOU want, 3? How can we help you?

BTW, welcome. You're among friends.

I have never seen Dr Harley advise anyone to do this. The only endings that he advises for Plan B that I have seen are, if the affair ends, a return to the marriage (if the BS is still up for this) or, if it does not end, divorce.

A poster here, T2L, re-entered Plan A against the advice of many here, and simply cemented the affair and is now divorcing.

I think Dr Harley's plans should be followed closely.

Thanks for the warm welcome!!! It is good to find a place of support.

Sad to hear about waywards who never turn back, isn't it? The cost of chasing fantasy seems so high! A part of me believes my WH would actually like to come back, but without having to do any work. It is almost as if he wants to see if things will spontaneously go back to normal - where he can slip back in without doing any hard work. I can't imagine this! If he were to just come back, we would be set up to repeat the patterns that got us here in the first place!!! I don't want my old marriage back - I want one where the two of us both work at meeting each other's needs in a way we never have before. Maybe I am the one dreaming?!

SDCW- interesting point about revisiting Plan A. I'm not sure quite what I am doing right now. I am keeping it friendly with my WH, but there is no relationship to speak of. He is showing up to mow the grass. I try to accommodate time for DS to spend with him when he asks (more for my son than WH). We rarely talk. When we do, it business-like about the kids. I really do miss having a partner to share my hopes, dreams, day-to-day experiences. And I miss hearing about his life too. But he is not safe. He has proven that he is not trustworthy.

The kids and I each have therapists that we see regularly. I keep hearing "narcissism" mentioned. Anyone have any thoughts about how narcissism plays into wayward behavior?

maritalbliss- thanks for your post. What do I want? I want a restored marriage. I realize that this will take more than just my willingness. If WH is not willing in time - I want to live a full, vibrant life. I do not want to become bitter, but instead wiser. I want to be in a trusting, loving relationship.

I'm not even sure where I need help right now. I guess if you all see me making a mistake, or missing something - I will appreciate your guidance. While I have been walking this path for a year now, I know there is much to learn from others.

Okay, I am CONFUSED. Plan B means NO CONTACT with your WH. He doesn't come home to mow the lawn. He doesn't talk to you or email you or even text you about ANYTHING directly. You get an Intermediary and anything in regards to finances or your son is all that goes through them.

I don't know what PLAN you are in right now. If there is continued contact with your WH and no Plan B letter, then you are NOT in Plan B. It's okay though, we can help you still. Give us a glimpse into what your sitch is like right now.

3s,

As someone who once made these same mistakes, please listen to this:

What you have been doing doesn't sound like either Plan A or Plan B. It sounds a bit like Plan Hang On & Hope. Please don't be upset with me for saying that--I did the same stupid crap myself a few years ago. I mentioned earlier revisiting Plan A briefly (and was upbraided for suggesting it) because I got the impression you either didn't do a very effective one or never had the chance. If I'm wrong, please ignore what I wrote earlier. If I'm correct, please talk to the Harleys about what they suggest at this point.

But....I can say that you certainly shouldn't be doing what you are doing currently. If you aren't doing a short Plan A, then you should be in Plan B for sure. And you are not in Plan B.

While you can't (and shouldn't) stop your WH from seeing his kids, there is NO WAY you should be talking to him at all, "keeping it friendly", and NO WAY he should be "showing up to mow the grass". That is NOT Plan B.

There should be no direct contact between you two except for an EMERGENCY issue regarding the kids. For anything short of a true immediate emergency, you should enforce indirect contact (for child-issues only) through an intermediary only. No "friendly" or "business-like" discussions. And certainly no allowing WH to drop by and make himself feel useful by mowing the lawn for you. In short, other than for necessary co-parenting/child-care, there should be no communication or physical proximity whatsoever between you two as long as WH is still with his OW and refusing to re-commit to his marriage.

Every contact you have with him, no matter how subtle, impedes your healing and allows him to cake-eat between his BW & OW.

SDCW-
Thanks for your thoughts. I was in a strict Plan B last summer. When WH called last September, said he was willing to meet all of my stipulations, I was then willing to talk to him. He was willing to go to MC, but ended up going to IC to work on his anger toward me first. Therapist supposedly said he wasn't ready to go to MC yet. Funny, when IC ended (I think at WH's choice - not therapist's) - he said there was no point in MC because our DD16 was not in relationship with him. He initially blamed me for this, but then said he owns responsibility. He says he has lost her and has given up on her - says he will never have a relationship with her. Said if he came back, she would just rebel. I told him he could not come back until some serious work was done first.

So, back to Plan B? If so, how do I do this. A letter? My WH is a fighter and has trouble with authority (he owns his own company - nobody tells him what to do). I guess a part of me is hesitant, because of what may come my way. (Last summer he refused to release money for the kids and me - I am a stay at home mom).

What should I do now?

Dear 3's, without a doubt, talk to a FAMILY LAW attorney and get informed about your rights for spousal and child support.

His refusal to release money for his wife and his kids is a HUGE

Please, take this advice.

Any man/husband/father who has a history of "trouble with authority", is going to need some SERIOUS authority ( like a court order and more .... ) to pry him away from the notion he does not have to support his family.

Do NOT discuss with him.
Just get yourself a GREAT attorney, and protect yourself and your kids.

It is NOT a love buster to need to provide food and shelter For yourself and your children.

Tough beans for him!

3s,

A Plan B letter to your WH lays out the conditions by which he is allowed renewed contact with you. It should include:
1) He must end it permanently with the OW, send her a NC-letter than you approve of in advance, and adhere to complete & perpetual NC with her for life.
2) He must commit to reconciling/healing his marriage & family relationship. He must make that his #1 priority no matter what the obstacles are.

It sounds to me like your WH has made every excuse he could to avoid facing the above. He blames you and your daughter for the strained relationship there. He blames you for his anger. He blames his IC for his failure to reconcile. He blames everything but HIMSELF. Your WH�s affair is the reason why he has �lost� his daughter, devastated his family, and wrecked his own peace-of-mind. The fact that he refuses to face up to that clearly indicates that he is still involved with his OW.

Like most WHs, he is cake-eating and trying to hold on some shred of the life he betrayed (by having �friendly� talks with you and being so �nice� as to mow your lawn for you). By allowing him even these small bits of connection to your life, you are accepting the crumbs that fall from his table and validating somewhat his ongoing double-life. He is still playing �family guy� a little while keeping a mistress on the side.

As far as the financial thing goes, you need to get a lawyer involved asap. He CANNOT withhold support from his kids (and you too) just because he�s pissed off that you and DD aren�t accepting his sleazy double-life. Don�t let him get away with intimidating or manipulating you financially.

Thanks Pepperband and SDCW-
Just want to clarify. The kids and I are financially supported now (and I am finishing up a graduate degree - will be minimally employed for the next two years and after that should be able to provide for myself and the kids).

When WH was refusing to give financial support, I was definitely working with an attorney. We were weeks away from a court appearance when he called saying he wanted to work on the relationship. At this point, he was amicable and agreeable to provide for the kids and me. My fear here is that by drawing another hard line with him I am going to have another fight on my hands. The struggle last summer was miserable, emotionally draining and time consuming. I guess I am reluctant to pick another fight with him.

Thoughts?

So you are afraid to go into plan B because you don't want to fight for your right?

Is that what I read?

Remember that you are doing this to protect your family, if you are afraid "to pick another fight with him" then your priorities are in the wrong place sorry making sure that you and your kids are financially safe when he is not willing to pay a penny shouldn't be emotionally draining or time consuming, you are doing it for your family, the only person it is draining is your WH.

I know the battle can be hard, but remembering the safety of you and your kids should be top priority no matter what the costs are.

You WH doesn't sound like he wants to recover, I agree with everyone else that have posted about him, he is only cake-eating, and will not change if you don't do anything about it.

Good luck!

My advice has not changed.

Do you have an enforceable support order or agreement in place? In writing?

If not, then get one because o/w your WH will probably use the threat of withholding support to maintain his cake-eating double life. If you don't "draw a hard line", you will be at his mercy.

Don't settle for being "amicable" while he is dumping all over you and your family.

Looks like I will start writing my letter! I will post once it is written - will welcome your input.

SDCW- No enforceable support order. My attorney has everything in place. She said if he reneges we are ready to file.