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Another beautiful post by ARK ~~~~~~~~~~~ Some of the most painful posts to read here ....is the confusion and turmoil of betrayed spouses....
those post D-day days weeks and sadly months in which so many things are left unanswered, unaddressed and emtpy...
be still.....
In our turmoil and chaos and the gnawing need to fix and address.....bs bring into their hearts more pain and crisis....
be still...
There was once a saying I read somewhere that went something like to really ever understand someone else we must crawl inside of them and feel the gentle beat of their heart....
easier probably for a BS to move a mountain than to grasp and work from that realm....
but be still...
each moment of stillness you can buy grab or gobble is a moment in which you are free from the pain and free from the fear..
fear of doing the wrong thing
fear of saying the wrong thing...
the goal is not marriage rebuilding at any cost...
the goal is guiding yourself to a place of stillness...no matter the outcome....
the anatomy of a WS is that they changed and molded their own thought processes so that they could engage in a affair....
they did this....
they did this....over time and in a way in which they can barely see the reality of this...but they did do it...
be still
it takes time.....
too many posts are from BS with unrealistic EXPECTATIONS which will harm you...
it is unrealistic to think that the thought processes needed to engage in such vile actions....vanishes over night
working through affair issues takes time...gobs and gobs of it...
and if you find yourself standing in a place of demanding change and specified responses, introspection, apologies, and instant change...
be still
for you are causing more grief that you need to burdon....
they did this...and they must undo this...
will they?
the truth is we don't know..
but to ever be a whole person again they darn well better...otherwise they carry their chaos on and on..and in the end no BS needs to burdon that.....
WS, though hard to see when they have used you as a weapon are very very damaged inside.....
they can not face that damage...and since that damage is YOU the BS...they often can not face you..
so they continue to waffle and wallow in the path that brought them to this place...
the way of rationalizing and justifying downright no two ways about it dispicable behavior acts....
force them to the face and process at once..
they will withdrawal
they will deny
they will retaliate
or even worse they will self destruct themselves....
be still....
don't force responses and actions and answers...be still and know that their non-responses , non actions and non answers ARE their answers....and you can hold them accountable to that
be still
and then make your moves....
ARK^^ For me, this post is like a prayer. A prayer for peace and serenity.
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Wow, haven't posted to you before but was checking in on the Boards. You're getting excellent support and keep it up!
Belle, Domestic Goddess
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Quick post..on lunch break. WH makes contact with me several times throughout day. Impressive, seeing as how his cellphone is cutoff. Coffee everymorning for 3 days. Worked till 11 last night, went home read awhile and was just getting ready to sleep about 1 am when the phone rang.."Just got off a call. Is it ok if I stop by?" Sure thing! He came over and...are you ready for this? Spent the night!! (Those would be MY July 4th fireworks you hear going off in the distance!) Was amazing! But, I do see the patience and stillness thing..workin hard on that. We are going out to dinner when I get off work tonight. One thing: he checked my text messages while I was asleep. When I looked at my phone this morning, he had been looking at texts between me and OW (old texts - haven't been doin that lately). I asked him about it and he was very forthcoming. Asked him his thoughts..said they were very colorful texts. I told him they were very hurtful. But, I left him with, "I really liked the way you kissed me last night. Havent felt that way for a long time."  More later!
BS(me)43
WS(him)35
Married 7 yrs (together 10)
No children together; 20yo & 15yo ds (mine), 14yo dd (his)
D day: 05/11/10
NC not established
Status: headed for D and takin' care of me
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 You rock! It's so great to see a good Plan A student do so well 
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![[Linked Image from blogs.fruitportschools.net]](http://blogs.fruitportschools.net/jstebelton/files/2008/05/vancouver-fireworks.jpg) Don't call the police or fire department .... It's only REDzGIRL going off! 
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Don't call the police or fire department .... It's only REDzGIRL going off! And I thought you left coasters were having another tremor...
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Thanks, susieq, was nice to hear you saying "good job"! I am trying to focus on the positives and not over-analyze this thing to death. Went to dinner with WH. Was very relaxed and easy. We sat beside each other instead of across from each other (which used to never happen), we ate wings and watched a race on TV. We talked about the race..one of the drivers is a friend of ours. Didn't feel as awkward and "forced" as it has been feeling. He had rode with me in my car, so I took him back to the fire dept. - he's on standby all weekend because of the holiday and the fireworks. We talked for a bit, just chit-chat, then I came on home. Then, just as if it were the same script from the night before, right as I am just getting ready to go to sleep, the phone rings. "Are you still awake? I'm on my way." And he spent the night again! Didn't ask, say he would like to...just came in like that was what he was supposed to do. Ok, now I'm confused.. We talked some..not anything really intense. He is making an effort, for whatever reason, to inform me of what he is doing all day..almost like he had to give me a rundown of what he did yesterday. Interesting. Well, you guys can fill in the blanks on what happened next. (Sigh!)  He got up and left this morning before I woke up. He had said he was going to the fire dept early this morning. My problem is this..is this supposed to be happening this way? Two nights in a row of "sleepovers"? Is it too much carrot and not enough stick? Trying hard not to let my emotions run away with me and think something is there when it's not. He is still guarded somewhat. Not a lot of physical affection, but some..opening door, a few kisses that were not related to SF, held my hand once or twice. Even he has brought up the issue of not letting emotions run away..calls it "just relaxing and having fun". Am I on a slippery slope here or should I just relax and go with the flow?
BS(me)43
WS(him)35
Married 7 yrs (together 10)
No children together; 20yo & 15yo ds (mine), 14yo dd (his)
D day: 05/11/10
NC not established
Status: headed for D and takin' care of me
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My problem is this..is this supposed to be happening this way? Two nights in a row of "sleepovers". The love bank theory suggests you are meeting several of his needs. If he also has separate agenda, you are STILL filling some of the intimate ENs. That is pretty much plan A carrot in a nut shell. Plan A assumes there will be fence-sitting. Perhaps you are feeling a little too "used" right now? If you are, here is what you can do. Don't answer the phone after 9 PM. "I was asleep" . If you do that a few times, he might call earlier??? Anyway, I think it is fair to ask him this. "So, have you been to the woods to think?" Timing is important. WH needs to know that this is not a permanent solution to his confusion. Has he asked about what your needs are? Has he asked how you are hurt?
Last edited by Pepperband; 07/03/10 10:20 AM.
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We have been avoiding conversations about R. Just sort of living in the moment. From everything I can tell, he is having very limited contact, if any, with OW. Told me the other night that I would not have to worry about her anymore..did not follow that up with a comment nor pursue further info on it. He acts a little more like himself every day, just more reserved. Seems at times he is trying hard to be respectful with me, just wants to avoid any talk about where we are at or where we are headed.
Don't want to LB by pushing the issue. I don't necessarily feel "used", just unsure. I feel like I have a pretty good grasp at understanding the time and work that this is gonna take, just would like to know if we are both looking for the same thing out of this. Does that make sense? And is that putting excpectations on it?
BS(me)43
WS(him)35
Married 7 yrs (together 10)
No children together; 20yo & 15yo ds (mine), 14yo dd (his)
D day: 05/11/10
NC not established
Status: headed for D and takin' care of me
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RED I don't expect you to have zero expectations. (ha ha) You're human. You're hurting. Not knowing you in "real life" and being dependent on this imperfect forum communication, I just have to trust that you are not allowing yourself to be overwhelmed by all of this stress. You TYPE calm and cool  ... are you calm and cool like you "sound"? If you don't feel your TAKER wanting to grab the reins, then plan A away. You remember your TAKER, don't you? She is your protector. Have you ever read Starfish's post about the GOOD TAKER? I'll look for it. My point is, when you are in Plan A, be watchful for your TAKER, because that usually signals a need to switch to Plan B.
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The Giver is the part of you that follows the rule: do whatever you can to make the other person happy and avoid anything that makes the other person unhappy, even if it makes you unhappy. It's the part of you that wants to make a difference in the lives of others, and it grows out of a basic instinct that we all share, a deep reservoir of love and concern for those around us.
But the Giver is only half of the story. The other half is the Taker. It's the part of you that follows the rule: do whatever you can to make yourself happy and avoid anything that makes yourself unhappy, even if it makes others unhappy. It's the part of you that wants the most out of life, and it grows out of your basic instinct for self-preservation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The giver is all about love and concern and the taker is our selfish side...so how can the giver be bad, or the taker be good?
Everybody recognizes the "good" in the giver and how giving can enhance relationships, but here's how a "bad" giver can ruin your marriage if all your marital choices are made solely selflessly:
*your giver is not honest....he won't tell your spouse what you need because he more concerned about your spouse feels, whether your spouse gets his needs met, than protecting your interests or your feelings. If your spouse asks the giver if it's okay to do something....even something you don't want to do...the giver says okay.
*your giver is the one who creates resentment...all that dishonesty cloaked in care....leads to misunderstandings, mixed signals, missed opportunities. The giver thinks...my spouse should KNOW what I need....just like I know what he needs.
*your giver is your martyr....endless giving creates the ever suffering spouse. Givers are praised for their selflessness, but they become very unhappy until all that's left is to somehow enjoy the pain....and get what secondary gain that offers.
*givers avoid risk and change...no rocking the boat...who knows what could happen? Nope, givers like safety....even when that involves enduring discomfort.
*givers believe in unconditional love...because they don't ask for conditions. They just give.
*givers handle your tender emotions...fear, sadness, care, consideration. They also tend to be weepy and needy.
We all know how "bad" the taker can be....afterall he's the guy who makes selfish demands, angry outbursts and most of our other LBs. But how can the taker be "good"?
*your taker is the guy you need at the negotiation table....because your giver will NOT create harmony, fairness, honesty in the dealings. Without your taker, your giver will create an environment of sacrifice....leading to resentment, anger and loss of love.
*your taker is honest about what you need and gives your spouse the information to CHOOSE to show you he loves you in the way that you would like it. He doesn't require mind reading...he lays it on the table.
*your taker fights for what you need and doesn't let you sit home three weekends in a row...he makes sure you're part of the fun.
*your taker is not an enabler or codependent.
*your taker saves your marriage as often as your giver does by making sure that reciprocity exists.
*your taker is willing to take risks and make changes.
As an example, I'd like to put forward my own marriage and how my giver undermined the happiness in my marriage for years. I NEVER went into negotiations with my taker....so I never even got close to getting what I wanted. I always put my husband first. But I wasn't happy. I didn't like it.....and I BLAMED HIM for not giving me what I wanted even though I wasn't honest and he didn't know how to please me. There is no negotiation without the taker...the giver just says "fine", do what you want. I lived with resentment every time he did what he wanted. I punished him for it too. And I was not someone who he would want to spend time with in the future either because I was pretty much angry all the time.
Letting my taker out saved my marriage. Oh to be sure, I couldn't let my taker rant and rage....but once he wasn't in chains all the time, he was far less volatile. My taker is the one who found out that my husband was actually willing and pretty enthusiastice about negotiation. Instead of the old pattern...H wants to do something...I say yes...then treat him badly. The new pattern goes like this....H wants to do something, I tell him how I might feel enthusiastic about that...we come to an agreement about how we can both get what we need....and I treat him well...and we both have fun! He gets to enjoy his activities without guilt. I know that I won't be neglected because we have also made plans together.
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RED I don't expect you to have zero expectations. (ha ha) You're human. You're hurting. Not knowing you in "real life" and being dependent on this imperfect forum communication, I just have to trust that you are not allowing yourself to be overwhelmed by all of this stress. You TYPE calm and cool ... are you calm and cool like you "sound"? If you don't feel your TAKER wanting to grab the reins, then plan A away. You remember your TAKER, don't you? She is your protector. Have you ever read Starfish's post about the GOOD TAKER? I'll look for it. My point is, when you are in Plan A, be watchful for your TAKER, because that usually signals a need to switch to Plan B. Here's the thing about the Giver and Taker...I am, by nature, a people-pleaser. I am getting a little better with this as I get older, but my first instinct is to put others first. (Was abandoned by my mother at age 12 and I think this is where my approval/abandonment issues stem from.) Working on that. I do feel my Taker kicking in a little bit, but I'm not sure it's unhealthy. There have been many times over the years that I have pushed my feelings and wants (needs) to the side in order to give WH what I thought would make him happy. As a result, I helped to contribute to my needs not getting met, because I wouldn't speak up and say what I needed. I am normally a pretty tough broad, so this seems in opposition with how others see me, but that's what I mean when I say I am "weak" for this man. He is the only person I have ever done this with to this extent. Am I "calm and cool like I sound"? Strangely enough, a certain calmness has come over me. I can only believe that it is God doing for me what I could not do for myself. It is almost a strange peace that I KNOW that I am in the middle of THE plan. Never felt this before. Not really feeling overwhelmed, just unsure and a little confused. All this stillness and practicing patience is really doing a number on the control-freak in me. It has been hard admitting to my "fixer" that I have little or no control, I just have to hang on for the ride..kinda like being on the back of that 4-wheeler.
BS(me)43
WS(him)35
Married 7 yrs (together 10)
No children together; 20yo & 15yo ds (mine), 14yo dd (his)
D day: 05/11/10
NC not established
Status: headed for D and takin' care of me
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He is taking a nap..in my bed..at 5 in the afternoon. He seems exhausted and depressed. His truck is parked at the end of the street like he doesn't care who sees it there. (My house is at the end of a short, straight deadend street that intersects with a fairly busy road. This road, coincidentally, is a road that the POSOW would have to travel frequently.)
Not much talking. He seems guarded. What to do? I decided to cook dinner and workout, then I'll wake him. Tryin to be still....
BS(me)43
WS(him)35
Married 7 yrs (together 10)
No children together; 20yo & 15yo ds (mine), 14yo dd (his)
D day: 05/11/10
NC not established
Status: headed for D and takin' care of me
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Yeah.
Leading a double life is exhausting.
Hang in there ......
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I don't think he's having contact with her. Do I take a risk and ask him?
BS(me)43
WS(him)35
Married 7 yrs (together 10)
No children together; 20yo & 15yo ds (mine), 14yo dd (his)
D day: 05/11/10
NC not established
Status: headed for D and takin' care of me
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Posts: 35,996
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I don't think he's having contact with her. Do I take a risk and ask him? If you want my opinion, I'd say "not yet". You can test things out by saying something like: "I am enjoying your company immensely." The reason I don't think asking him about OW is a good risk to take .... He is NOT with her when he is with you. He is apparently not even thinking about her too much. Eventually, it will come up ... You might want to say "What is the status on our marriage future?" Something along those lines. YOU are doing great. Don't push too hard.
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Yep, don't ask him about OW. It will come out. Do what your plan is and that's it. Sounds like you are doing well so far.
BW(Me)aka Scotty:37 DSx2: 10,12 DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09 Plan B Dec18/09 Personal R in works Scotty's THING Newly Betrayed click herePraying for walls and doors. Thanx MM “Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.” ? Maya Angelou PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION THANK YOU
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Haven't heard from WH in two days. He came back Monday night after I had went to sleep. Said he didn't really want to be alone. He spent the night then left the next day when I left for work. Haven't heard from him or seen him since.
Getting tired of sitting here waiting on him to want me. Feel like he only shows up when HE wants something. What about what I want? I know this is part of it, but I also know I don't have to be alone. I don't HAVE to sit here and wait for a lying cheater to decide he might want to do me the favor of granting me a little bit of time during his busy (unemployed) schedule!!
Been working out almost every day and still reading and studying. Trying to focus on making me better. Maybe that's my problem..I see me getting better and I am more attractive to ME. Maybe I deserve better...
BS(me)43
WS(him)35
Married 7 yrs (together 10)
No children together; 20yo & 15yo ds (mine), 14yo dd (his)
D day: 05/11/10
NC not established
Status: headed for D and takin' care of me
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Feel like he only shows up when HE wants something. What about what I want? Of course he only comes when he needs YOU, like all WS they always come by just to get their needs met, once that is done, they go back to the OP and fulfill their other needs. Just remember you are in plan A.
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Did you ever ask H about moving back in and the future?
You've been in Plan A for about 2 weeks so sounds like time to start lining up your Plan B. Can you hang in there for another week or so?
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