Does your H know this?

Could you explain all this post to your H?

To me it is crystal clear and eloquently stated. I see w your ENs from my post in Mars. Have you stated your views to your H in this manner?

Remain,

Boy do I have a lot to say. I will say that I think your H can meet your needs, however, you are going to have to realize a few things to get him to address them as you like. I don't take your post as a downer, but a gradual coming to understanding of yourself. Until you do that your H won't have a clue how to meet your needs. Once you do, you will be able to tell him and show him. So let me start what I think is going to be a very long post.

You said a lot in the following quote
Are you seeing why YOUR need for admiration is not high on my list. You admire your H but really that is not endearing to you is it?

In short you want him to relax, quit protecting himself and enjoy LIFE with you, does this sum it up?
What do YOU think would be fun things to do?
How do you think you could get him to not consider his children and include them when he thinks of you?
Has he ever been a person that was funny, had a good or a dry sense of humor? Has he changed since you married.
Do you really want him to quit thinking of what is BEST for you, or is it you would like some input in the decisions?
Do you think that since you that since he is 8 years older than you he thinks of you as someone to protect more than share with?

You also answered to my question about how he handled the pain and insecurity engendered by your affair in the following way Since you don't admire or respect how he handled it, would you compare and contrast how he did do it to how you would have done it if you were in his place. I know this sounds like an English essay question, but I think it is important that you envision how you would have handled in his place. Trust me I do have a reason for asking.

You also said Ok, please remind me of his educational and work background. I am asking this because many folks who are in positions of trust or authority such as professors etc, feel that they MUST act in a controlled, even manner no matter how they feel. Couple this with how us guys are trained to submerge our emotions and you often get what you describe. His demeanor could be as it is with many a device to protect himself from ridicule, pain, embarrassment and is often learned at a young age. He may really be worrying that you won't respect him if you see beneath the veneer. You have hurt him badly and therefore it is likely you are seeing more of the wall/shell/veneer than you might.

I have a bunch of ideas about all of this and how you can address it as we hone in on your perspectives and how you see your H.

Must go.

God Bless,

JL
PS: There is an old saying "women marry men expecting to change them, and men marry women expecting that they will not change." You married very young, and I wonder if he is still seeing you as very young rather the mother of his children and capable of making good decisions, you're a not withstanding.

RN,

It sounds to me like you feel like your hubby is just plain afraid to loosen up and relax around you. I can relate to this to some degree.

When D-Day came around any my then WW confessed, one thing she mentioned was that I just wasn't any fun anymore.

I have a job that keeps me in the public eye. In fact, it gets to be a 24/7 thing that's frankly quite annoying. After a while, I got to the point where I was afraid to do anything that might affect my public image and I became, quite frankly, deadly dull and boring -- even to me.

The whole A and its aftermath forced me to look at myself, and I underwent a self-administered stick-ectomy. I realized I wasn't having any fun myself, which made me absolutely no fun to be around. I didn't even like hanging around me all that much.

After my wakeup call, I changed the way I did things. I stopped worrying about things and loosened up. Some things I didn't change. There are some missteps that would cost me my job and everything I've built up over the past 25 years. A DUI arrest would result in being on the front page of the local paper and me living in my car, for example.

That had something to do with my resistance to exposing the A, to be honest. I still want to keep as much of my life private. I have no desire to be the topic of gossip for 275,000 people, thank you very much. It's bad enough now -- let's not give them ammo.

I basically function like I'm everyone's next door neighbor, and I like that image. It's gotten to the point that my DW gets some of the overflow, and since she's become rather high-profile in the retail industry in our town, she gets some of that in her own right. And some of that has finally clued her into some of the crap I've been dealing with for years. Opened her eyes, that has. That hasn't hurt.

Have you told him what you're feeling on this topic? It might make a difference.

If I remember correctly you did fill out you EN questionaire and give it to your DH. If not how do you expect him to know how to meet your EN's.

Wow.

YES!!!

funny you should ask! last week i mentioned, hey, this MB stuff I�m reading says its really important for couples to spend at least 15 hours a week together one-on-one, just the two of them hanging out together. I told him I�d realized, we�ve always had our own hobbies and organizations we�re in and we�ve always been totally cool with doing our own thing�but that it would be really fun to find something WE like and make it OUR THING. It�s not like we have no common interests, and there are probably a million more things we�d both love that neither of us have tried. But when I suggested, hey, let�s think of some stuff that we can do for fun together, he got all uncomfortable and said, �we don�t really have any common ground in that area. I don�t think we need to be joined at the hip.� I said, well, no, certainly not, it�s healthy for us to have our own interests blah blah, I�m SAYING, let�s find something FUN for YOU AND I to do. Bounce some ideas off me, I�ll bounce some ideas off you, and if it�s something you find absolutely boring you can veto it and vice-versa, and if we both like it, let�s set a date! And he said, �I don�t really have hobbies. There�s nothing I really enjoy doing just for fun. I�m not really into the whole leisure thing.� Well�.that�s CRAP. Because listen, we have PLENTY of common interests.

OK, I�m ruling stuff he can�t or won�t do and listing stuff we�d BOTH enjoy:
We could learn a second language.
Build an old-school canoe out of a solid piece of wood.
Drive in the country; maybe collect some Spanish moss to transplant to our trees at home.
Or we could build one of those Frankenstein ATVs with the roll-cages and go rock-crawling in dry creek beds! AWRIIIIGHT!
Cruise the flea markets and antique shops (our town has like 20 antique shops) and dig around for antique books and crazy knick-knacks.
Draw out plans for improving our land, figuring landscaping layouts and water features and stuff. (actually IMPROVING our land, the labor part, is my personal project. Figure that towards Domestic Support. =])
Work on our project cars (I�ve got a 77 El Camino Classic, he�s got a 55 Chevy step-side pick-up). He could teach me about the systems and I could teach him about the cosmetic stuff.
Play Scrabble or Bananagrams (that�s speed-scrabble w/ more lax rules.)
Go to art galleries and pick out what we WOULD get, if only.
Or hell, we could lounge around out on the patio drinking beer and maybe git nekkid.
We could even, perhaps, GO�FISHING�ALREADY.

that's the stuff we could BOTH do. if it were up to me i'd pick more physical stuff--learn to dance, go rock-climbing, backpacking, take up a risky sport--but the stuff listed above is actually feasible.


This has me stumped. Is he seeing me as the third daughter, here, you think? Any suggestions?

.
He�s HILARIOUS. he and I were always the life of the party. Still are, when we�re in public. We banter like anchormen. He can be extremely dry and witty. But not with me unless we�re out somewhere where people are watching.

Obviously I want him to choose what�s best for our family, and I respect his role as the leader of our household. I�m talking about huuuuge decisions�whether or not to move back to Louisiana after Hurricane Katrina, for instance. Whether to buy a house or build a house. What said house should look like. Whether to buy a business�that would REQUIRE ME TO WORK THERE TO MAKE IT SUSTAINABLE. OK, yes, I�d like some input in the decisions. I didn�t want to move back to Louisiana. I�m afraid to design a house myself, because what if my custom masterpiece doesn�t match what I�ve envisioned and we�ve spent 20% more than we should have per square foot and we couldn�t ever recoup our cost if we try to sell? I�ll gladly give him free reign w/ $ to pursue his dream, I won�t even look at the P&Ls if he;s confident it�s a good venture, but I don�t want him to buy me a 9-to-5. That�s�ILL-ADVISED. He�ll ask me what I think, of course, but if I express concerns, or disagree, or ask questions, he�ll have an explanation not for why I shouldn�t be concerned, but why I shouldn�t be asking. JL, if you�re the husband and therefore the decision-maker, it�s not just COURTEOUS to consider how it�ll affect your wife, it�s a BIBLICAL IMPERATIVE. I told him after Katrina that I would never ever question his leadership and that if God had given him an absolute conviction that he was needed in Louisiana, so be it, we would move back cheerfullyu. I would pray for peace and accept his decision as truth, and if I had misgivings, I would ascribe them to my own lack of faith and pray against superimposing my own agenda over God�s will. I trust him to make good decisions. What throws me is when he makes decisions with poor outcomes and then wants to know why I didn�t talk him out of it. That�s not fair. Either be the leader or don�t. either consult me or don�t.

huh. I don�t know. I don�t mind feeling protected, I rather dig feeling protected. If he were a Mafioso or something I�d rather be protected than shared with. But�if he doesn�t talk to me about stuff--to whom does he talk???

JL�this is awful to contemplate. You have the whole story of how he handled it, a few posts back, YEG�s quote as the header. My simple answer to how I�d have handled it? Best case scenario: simple: PLAN A AND PLAN B. I�d have been slower to accept responsibility for my actions and feel real remorse, but I�d know for a fact that my husband was taking me back because he LOVED me, and I�d have a deeper understanding of his capacity for forgiveness. and i'd feel gratitude.

He was a minister for 7-8 years�not as in preacher, although I think he�s legally recognized as an ordained minister--he was in executive-level management for a Christian school and the accompanying church. So, yes, very much public-eye, very much not-causing-thy brother-to-stumble. He�s now in the private sector�since my affair he;s been, respectively: associate publisher of a newspaper; a private investigator; a state-licensed instructor for liquor-license certification; �� for concealed-weapons permits; consultant for a property management firm; head of the commercial division of an insurance agency; and finally (currently) rep for a tech/service company. Whew. So, yes, even if his immediate position doesn�t require him to be in the public eye, he�s always been keenly aware of how he�s perceived. As am i. I know in the past, when he was active in the ministry, he deliberately tried to come across as older, wiser, more serious�I mean, he bought a frickin suede vest to wear under his suit jackets. And a pocket-watch. He associates age with wisdom and respectability; he wanted people to see him as trustworthy, so he tried to project the �grey eminence� that one would typically associate w/ the headmaster and administrator of a private school. BUT HE�s ONLY 34. When we�d been married for like a year, I remember we chaperoned some event for the church youth group�I was younger than some of the high-school seniors, and I could tell he was ashamed of himself for putting himself in that position, and thereby ashamed of me. I cut my hair shorter and started wearing tailored stuff after that. Hmmm�maybe he should have considered the simple fact that if I were 8 years younger than him when he married me, logic would dictate that I would always be 8 years younger than him. I GREW UP. He got OLD before his time, on purpose. At any rate, yes, I�m sure that being always conscious of scrutiny would make you self-conscious and careful, but I PLAY that game, and I play it well, and with relish. I�m a fine hostess and a brilliant networker, and I believe that even if his sole purpose in this world were to look presentable to the public, he�d be better off with me than without me. why does he put on his game-face for everyone else and then come home and go straight to his room and sulk? I try to console myself that maybe it�s a comfort thing, he feels at ease at home and can let his guard down�it's probably that he needs more time to forgive me.
That�s quite likely. But first off, he was acting the same way for two years before my affair. Also, now, it seems like he�s showing me the worst side of himself deliberately, and showing me also that he�s trying to conceal it. What do you call that--PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE. I�d rather he just FLIP and get it all out of his system�instead, he�ll sit really still and clench his jaw and breath in a really measured but audible fashion and stare straight ahead. I hate this worse than anything on the planet because it makes me all chirpy and tip-toey. It�d be one thing if he were just blank and neutral�actually no, that would worry me to death too�but this KILLS me. it�s like an implosive angry outburst.
That rather makes me wonder, again, why he married me. In fact, why was a 26-year old even dating an 18-year-old?
Look, I know and you know that women are pretty much in their physical prime in their late teens/early twenties, whereas men stay handsome til their late forties or so. 18-year-old girls are LOVELY, all of them. I�ve worked my butt off to stay looking 18 forever. But I�ve grown up, also, as far as responsibility and your basic intelligence, plus motherhood, fulfilling not only the role of a wife but a MINISTER�S wife�I believe I was an asset to him, socially. At any rate, I made a point to grow up mentally and emotionally but still retain the best aspects of youth: Optimism. Vivacity. Confidence. Playfulness. I never wanted him to change. I liked him the way he was when I married him. He not only changed, its like he eradicated all traces of his former personality. I married Johnny Knoxville and 2 months later he morphed into Ned Flanders.

Remain,

I don't have much time but I think you are wrong about the physical prime thing. For me women hit their peak of beauty in their 40's. They have the optimum combination of physical beauty, maturity, and generally inner beauty. I know it is not fashionable but maturity in women is a beautiful thing and leads to an enhanced inner beauty as they are experienced enough in life to understand themselves and the people in their lives.

Are you starting to see why I think of you as very young? You are nowhere near your prime. I will also say that most men don't really mature until about 30 or so. I am wondering if your H is as mature as you think he is.

My guess is that you need to inquire of your husband as to why he is not interested in spending time with you. I have always considered passive agressive behavior rather cowardly and NEVER productive. I have seen few if any examples of passive aggressive behavior being productive in my life.

I must go, I will be back with more thoughts in the next day or so.

God Bless,

JL

i have NOT told him what i think about this.

what i find strange is that he's absolutely charming and witty when we're in public view. i mean, think, a visibly happy marriage is an upside thing, even from a strict public-image-enhancement standpoint.

the 2 sides of the coin as i see them: here's the optomisitc one: maybe he finds it mentally exhausting to play the game, so he keeps up the anchorman's banter in public and relaxes into silence when he's alone with me because he feels comfortable enough to do so.

one hopes.

RN,

My DW and I have done banter like that every since we got married. It usually sounds more like a standup routine, which we both really find amusing.

I put so much of myself into my work, and so little of myself into the M, that D-Day was a true wakeup call for me. I realized I needed to flip my priorities, and I've certainly done that.

Your A should be a clarion call to him. He needs to change what he's doing to, as HNHN advertises, affair-proof the marriage. My actions, or the lack of them, was one of the factors that led to our marital issues. Yeah, the A was all on her, but what I was doing helped create the conditions that made it even a remote possibility.

I'm not about to fall into old, bad habits, because on that road lies disaster. He needs to stop hitting the snooze button on the marital alarm clock.

Affair-proof the marriage...ideally that would refer to ENs being met consistently on both sides, an absence of LBs, and SOLID BOUNDARIES. The mutual ENs-fulfillment will come in time, but til then i'm concerned about boundaries.

H and I have NO BOUNDARIES WHATSOEVER. There�s been public scrutiny, of course, and the desire to avoid the appearance of impropriety, but that�s about it. We�ve always trusted one another implicitly, which is great within the parameters of a mutually satisfying relationship wherein each is fulfilling the others� needs, but rather stupid otherwise.

I thought long and hard about what boundaries I�ve actually USED in the past�-basically, what kept me faithful when I wasn�t concerned about who was watching?�and they came down to something like this:

�don�t flirt with anyone you find attractive.� Not don�t confide in, don�t spend time w/, laugh w/, converse w/ at length, give advice to, joke w/, go out in public w/ and introduce as A Dear Friend Of The Family, text in the middle of the night, play pranks on�no, all that stuff was OK because it wasn�t flirting. As long as you don�t blush and giggle, you�re within your boundaries.

�No unnecessary physical contact beyond a handshake. Nothing intimate or socially gratuitous.� OK�but define unnecessary. Define intimate. Define socially gratuitous. Straightening someone�s collar for them, or wiping a smudge of paint off one�s cheek�I�d do these for anyone, of either gender, in my husband�s presence. But I had to remind myself of that fact a million times to justify it to myself and try to inure myself to the illicit thrill of touching OM. They BECAME intimate gestures because I sought to DERIVE a thrill from them. And define socially gratuitous. If you�re with a group at, say, Chamber of Commerce and you�re telling fishing stories, and one guy says he got a heck of a bite from an alligator, check out the scar, and holds out his hand for inspection�everyone�s going to grab his hand and turn it this way and that in the light like the Hope Diamond and admire the scar. It would be rude not to. And there are many respectable venues at which the double-cheek air-kiss and warm hug is standard greeting. I think it�s just an excuse to breathe in the ear of someone else�s wife right in front of everyone. That�s the HEIGHT of illicit thrill within the bounds of social propriety.

�tell H about everyone you meet.� No prob. I always have. H never met OM, for instance, because I described him quite openly in a way that would ensure that H would never WANT to meet him.

�don�t criticize H or commiserate about your relationship with ANYONE.� I didn�t discuss H with OM, not because it felt immoral but because it felt typical and tacky. I knew where I was heading, and I didn�t want to be a textbook case. Which of course I am. if I�d had someone wise and moral and practical to confide to beforehand�in particular, if I�d had MB beforehand and could recognize the dynamic of our relationship�I could have fixed it instead of cheating.

I find this fricking HORRIFYING. My boundaries were HIDEOUSLY LAX. H�s still are, but he�s never betrayed my trust. At this point my actions are still dictated more by INTERNAL THRESHOLDS than PRESCRIBED BOUNDARIES�I need to stop trusting my thresholds and start establishing some boundaries.

i'm not in a position to impose boundaries on H, and again, he's never given me the slightest reason to distrust him, but his boundaries are pretty much non-existent too. the only thing between H and a well-earned retaliatory affair is me fulfilling his ENs.

Why did you have the affair?

How did you cross the line?

Why did you want to have an affair?

What were you missing?

Are you a person that seeks thrills?

Do you have an addictive personality?

Stanley, are you administering a fog-litmus test? i'll give you the fog answers and the real, rational ones.

wayward answer: i convinced myself that a fling would buy me a lifetime of fidelity. i thought, ok, i'm an affair waiting to happen--if i'm going to do it, i'm going to make sure it's as sordid and tacky and distasteful as possible, i'm going to make myself sorry, and i'll be so disillusioned that i'll forever have a new appreciation for my husband, and I�ll never ever do it again. and of course, i'll never get caught, so there won't be any consequences for anyone else except myself. [DURRR, slobber slobber, bang head against wall.] and you know what�s scary? The whole year and a half I spent as OM�s �friend�, I didn�t recognize it for what it was: a serious, marriage-threatening EA. Even if it had remained an EA, it was as damaging as the physical part because I didn�t feel I was doing anything wrong. I even remember thinking, wow, it I hadn�t met OM, I�d probably be having an affair by now! Thank God for FRIENDS!
real answer: i made a calculated decision based on irrational feelings of resentment and perceived neglect. blah blah entitlement blah blah self-deception. all true. i am a CLASSIC, TEXTBOOK example of the wayward mentality. I hardened my heart against my husband and made myself emotionally independent of him. I immunized myself against disappointment by teaching myself not to expect anything of him. And in doing so, I made myself immune to his kindness, his care, and his love.

wayward answer: if you read my thing re boundaries, you'll see that there WASN'T a line. with my horrible boundaries in play, i didn't cross the line until i actually went PA.
in real life, however, as soon as i met OM and realized w/in 5 minutes that i liked him better than my husband, the line had been crossed and i should have had no further dealings w/ him at all, ever.

wayward answer (you'll note that there is no real-life answer, because healthy people don't WANT to have affairs.)i actually convinced myself that i needed it. and i perpetuated that by overcompensating like mad for the year plus that it was EA. i really did derive enough happiness from it that i had an extra measure of patience and eagerness to please at home. It seemed like a win-win. Hah. Stupid wayward mindset.

real-life answer (no wayward perspective on this because it would require me to actually induce fog.):i don't want to make it about what i was missing, because whatever i felt i was missing, nothing can justify what i did. i hate phrasing it in terms of my emotional needs, because I never gave H a chance to fulfill them.

I CRAVE thrills, but I have few opportunities to indulge that. If I had no obligations, I�d seek classic, impulsive, sky-diving type thrills, but I�ve tempered my personality against impulsivity and hedonism.

Voil�, perhaps that is why you had the affair, crossed the line, etc. However, more information is needed.

There are men and woman that have affairs when they do not have ENs met. However, some affairs occur in good marriages. On the other hand some men and women never cheat even if they have the marriage from hell.

Some young women categorize men within 5 minutes as to whether they are good enough for sex or good enough to just be a friend.

Of course, there are women that see men as friends and then emotional intimacy leads to the affair. But, in your case the OM was highly attractive right away.

Men and women meet attractive people everyday and they don't have affairs.

So why did you have the affair?

Despite your treatise on the subject I believe you left some information.

if i REALLY answer your question, it would imply that my horrible choice w/ OM was some kind of love-at-first-sight soul-mates crap. no, it was this: i thought i could override my attraction to him by making a legitimate friend out of him. that's a boundary thing and a bad-choice thing. if i hadn't spend so much time with him, i never would have had the CHANCE to reallllly like him. i'd have been better off not knowing, you see?

i can't afford to believe in that soul-mates stuff, because number one, practically ALL WWs believe OM is their "soul mate", and number two, OM DIED last year. i found out recently through a mutual acquaintance that he died in February of 09. i had no reason to post it--what would people say, "im sorry for your loss"? but if that's the case, then the soul-mates thing is pretty much out the window, wouldn't you say? and maybe i'd better find a new soul-mate, and maybe i should start with my husband.

All of us have chemistry with some other people and there are many soul mates out there.

Besides boundaries one can simply understand the why we Love and avoid pitfalls.

I agree with your post 100%!

Will you agree that to have affairs one must be very idealistic or even naive?

I have also discovered that folks that have affairs fall in love very easily.

OM died?????

Does your H know?

I am not sure whether to say I am sorry. How do you feel about OM's death?

I am not worried about my wife's OM whether alive or dead. My approach is my wife can have him any time she wants him. I dared her so many times!

i think that the connotation of idealism and naivete suggests a sort of helpless vulnerability. i prefer to say that to have an affair one must be very STUPID,while exhibiting also the sort of base, primitive cunning one might observe in reptiles. one must also be GREEDY, SELF-INDULGENT, and TREACHEROUS. firmly denying the existence of possible consequences does not constitute naivete, it's self-deception.

hmmm, i don't know. i fall in LIKE easily. i click with people quickly, make friends fast, but it's because i really just like people.

H knows. he didn't rub it in. i feel about like you'd expect. i was shocked, mainly--he was only 42. i don't know what happened. i didn't look it up, i just took acquaintance's word. as far as missing him, i already knew i'd never see him again. i'm sad for his family, of course, and his real friends. i regretted my affair worse than ever when i found out--because instead of being a friend whom it's OK for me to remember and to miss, now he's a non-entity i can't even cry for. on the pro side, the circumstances don't allow me to entertain any what-if-i-married-the-wrong-man ideas. i've got my husband. there are no other valid options. and i will make it work.

i'll get back to the happy day-to-day stuff this eve--i see where you're going, Stan, i've read Desmond Morris and Why We Love and How We Believe, etc etc--i'm aware of what makes certain people biologically better "adultery candidates" than others, but i believe above all in FREE WILL, and that one can counter inclination with awareness. i didn't let it happen, i MADE it happen. it's a lot easier to reject bad tendencies if you admit that while you don't choose your tendencies, you CHOOSE your behavior.

REmain,

Boundaries??? Boy Oh Boy is there a lot to say about all of this. First, I want to ask you what is your plan to rebuild this marriage? How do you plan to make communications with your H better than it was before? What is your plan for you to have a marriage where YOUR needs are met as are his?

What do you see as a very good marriage? Do you know what your H sees as a very good marriage?

Have you ever considered that your H might be very insecure and seeks admiration/recognition from others, but is afraid of being close to you because you might find out he isn't so good?

Have you considered that your affair has in fact confirmed what he has always felt about himself? Have you considered he can joke around with others because they cannot reach him, but he fears doing it with you because you can reach him?

Have you ever considered that he NEEDS you to tell him what you need, not in a demanding way, but in a sharing/team way? Have you tried to "train" him be giving him positive feedback when he does something you like with: the kids, you, around the house, etc.?

So many questions. I really would like you to think about your marriage what you seeks and what you see in your H.


The reason should be obvious. To really make the MB approach work, you two need to share a life and that takes communications. You need to learn to speak to him in a language that he understands and that resonates with him internally. As you do, I think you will find that he will start to open up to you and start to see you in a different light.

But, don't make him read your mind. Let him know what you want, what you need, and how happy you are when he does. Your affair, does not mean your needs should not be met. Your affair means many things but not that. Your goal is to figure out how to get under his defenses and communicate with him on a heart to heart level so that he can learn he can place his heart in your hands and you will take very good care of it.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

As I said there are folks that have or don't have affairs and this is often related to ENs that are met or not met.

What can one do if the affair happens because of chemistry with someone, opportunity, and addictive behaviors.


What can one do if one is very friendly?

There are folks that don't have affairs and are never tempted. They do not struggle with the opposing forces of monogamy and polygamy. Where are you on this?

How are your infidelity memes?

BTW, the questions by JL need your responses.

CIAO

JL, I may be dense, but I picked up on a sort of theme here...could we be communicating poorly?
this is our primary issue, and i've done a LOT of thinking...right now, he's meeting my needs by default. i mean, i could continue like this indefinitely as far as having a series of good days. but that doesn't constitute a good marriage in and of itself. I CANNOT BRING MYSELF TO BE OPEN WITH HIM. and now that he's meeting my needs really well and i should be satisfied, i started trying to figure out what the heck my problem is:

THIS IS WHAT MAKES ME NOT WANT TO BE OPEN WITH HIM:
PASSIVE AO: this may be dumb�it�s the exact OPPOSITE of an angry outburst, and I should probably be happy about this , you tell me: when he�s upset he won�t say a word, he�ll get terribly still, tense, and silent and I find it maddening. It�s not fair for me to criticize how he deals with stress, you can't say "i don't like how you act when you're sad"--it's not ABOUT me. i can't deny the man an emotional reaction! but this behavior quite frankly scares me and makes me jumpy for hours. And he acts the same whether he�s furious at something in particular, or if he�s tired and sore, or if he�s just had a mildly stressful day. So I never know whether to leave him alone or if I should try to do something for him or what�Do I just need to get over this?? the impression it gives me is that he's going to, like, snap at any second. it makes me want to not bother him at all, let alone ask for anything. let alone ask him to QUIT IT.
CONSTANT, SUBTLE, CONDESCENDING DJs: arguing with me when i talk about what i WANT. telling me why it's unrealistic to WANT it. i posted about this a week or so ago and i deleted my post because it was so furious.

i want to be open with him, i know that's the first step to any kind of honesty, let alone RADICAL honesty, and i know we can't REALLY agree on anything until i can express a point of view.do you think i ought to just save up and get some counseling? i'm sure i'd benefit from it, but that would REALLY weaken my position as far as being able to talk to him openly. if i asked for something then, it would be "i'm sure your counselor may have led you to BELIEVE that that's a reasonable expectation, but that's not how things work in real life." or the very fact that i was seeing a counselor would make my feelings automatically invalid.

can i, as the wayward spouse, EVER make a straight-up demand? provided it's not a selfish demand and would benefit the marriage? and i don't qualify it with this-is-what-will-happen-if-you-don't?
can i just ASK HIM TO STOP IT BECAUSE IT WORRIES ME AND MAKES ME SAD??

boring update re NEEDS-MEETING CAMPAIGN and SHUNNING LBs: i recommend skipping for reasons of PARALYZING ENNUI.

FS: I�m doing serious domestic support out the wazoo. Steam-cleaned the carpets, washed the windows, pulled all the weeds on the patio, trimmed branches of trees, stripped and sanded a dresser, I call him when he gets off work so I can have dinner of his choice on the table when he gets home.

FC: I�ve got the girls all day, plus I oversee all the boring procedural stuff�baths, snacks, chores. We read together as a family every evening and play board games a couple times a week.

FS$: I�m going back to work in September when the girls go to school, and I�ve been running my options past him so we can avoid schedule conflicts, etc. In the meantime I�m freelancing, kinda sporadic, and keeping our budget craaazy tight.

SF: twice daily, weather permittin�. I can�t impose boundaries on him to protect against a tetaliatory affair, but I can wear him out.

Affection: I scratch his back when he�s watching tv in the evenings and hug him in kiss him a few times a day, plus give him little compliments and do little courteous things: lay out his slippers and whatever book he�s reading, warm up a towel in the dryer while he�s showering. Just little nice stuff.

AS: it occurred to me that I look exactly the same as I did during my affair. So he sees the same girl, see? I asked how he�d feel if I were to change my hair�I�m getting extensions next week, (he loves long hair) and making sure I�m dressing in a way he likes.

O&H: I�m being honest but not terribly open. I mean, I�m being open about my day-to-day feelings and plans and stuff, and my activities and correspondence are an open book�but I still have a hell of a hard time expressing displeasure or asking for things.

Admiration: this is interesting�we were talking over the weekend and I told him all the serious, hard-core stuff I admire about him�the stuff I listed in previous post. I told him I just wanted him to know that�s the way I saw him, and that I didn�t know if I had done a good job of expressing how much I admired him. He was silent for a long time and then he said, �that makes me�really uncomfortable.�
?????Go figure?????

Conversation: This isn�t really his thing, but I�m not ruling it out�better safe than sorry. I give him 45 minutes or so to relax when he gets home, and I make it a point to engage him on the most interesting conversations possible�ideas, asking for advice or opinions, pitching theories. Plus I get up early with him in the mornings and blather about my dreams when I�m all half-asleep and loopy and he loves it�come to think of it, that�s one of my favorite times to talk to him�have coffee and just blather insanely before the girls even wake up.

AVOIDING LBs: OK, he hasn�t identified any of my LBs, but I can tell you what they are.
AOs: I don�t do this.
SDs: I�ve never made a verbal demand on him, but it occurred to me that my decision to stay home this summer, even though it�s been really good for him in some respects, has realllly stretched him thin and increased his overall stress level. And when he�s stressed over circumstances, it affects his ability to enjoy life. He�s subject to �provider guilt� no matter what I say to dispel that�it�s just the way he is. So I need to do my part to create circumstances that allow him to relax about money. Ideally I�ll make slightly less than him and work hours that allow me to handle the kids� carpooling and still take care of the domestic stuff.

IB: I haven�t really had an opportunity to engage in any IB lately. I�m viewing this as a chance to introduce POJA in an practical, �applied� fashion�like, asking him about what he�d like me to do with my hair, asking him about my career choices and how they could affect our family and him in particular. I�m prepared to guard against IB when temptation does arise.
DISHONESTY: again, not much to lie about these days, but I�m trying to learn to be open with him because failure to trust him w/ my feelings, etc is an implied DJ.

DJs: I try not to criticize or belittle, but my failure to ask him for anything or to give him honest opinions or objections for fear of his reaction�ISN�T THAT A DISRESPECTFUL JUDGEMENT IN AND OF ITSELF??? is that what you guys have been trying to get me to see? That by refusing to tactfully call him out on what I perceive as HIS disprespectful judgements, I�m basically treating him as though he were a condescending and insensitive jerk BY NATURE???