"They feel we have already confused DD5 enough."

Hi YEG,

Yep, I agree YEG and that would be my concern as well. Think of what has happened over the past two months. You moved out and then back in. Then your wife starts leaving home to stay with her parents at night. Then she leaves and is now back home. Pretty turbulent for a 5-yr-old.

I am not a Chicago Cubs fan, but I watch some of their games just due to them being on. It is disheartening tho even as a non-fan just to see their batters continue to flail away at the first pitch despite the coaches advice to be patient and pick their pitches. Lots of strikeouts, groundouts, leading to lost opportunities and a losing record. Just simply poor fundamentals and igoring advice.

YEG you are a good decent person. What I see tho is you being firm and committed up to execution. Then, when you get to the plate (as in your current Plan A and your just recently concluded Plan B) you flail away at her first pitch and, of course, fail to execute. Then you beat yourself up and become vulnerable to whatever she wants to throw at you to keep you on the defensive. I looked at one of your earlier posts and now I believe you broke your Plan B when your daughter became upset after you wife left and expressed that maybe 'if mom doesn't love you maybe she doesn't love me'. Apparrently you panicked, called your W, and you opened the door for her to return unscathed. I am just concerned YEG that you and your wife do not have much more margin for error in the in and out again, back and forth again stuff before the two of you really adversely unsettle and affect your DD. I say this because you are proceding now with a sort of 'mixed bag' plan that is neither based on MB nor at the advice of your coaches here. I just feel you are going to continue to flail away just like the Cubs, and that is going to cause more uncertainty, more partings and returns, and more stress for your DD.

I will say that of the BH's that I have seen here I felt that you were one of the people most likely most likely to save his marriage. Well, a lot of Cubs fans this season also felt that hey would get to the WS this year. Not.

So, for the sake of yourself, your M, your W, and esp. your DD please pay attention to your coaches here. Don't continue to flail away. The most important thing right now for you to committ to as they are advising you is to insist on no contact and complete transparency as a condition for staying to try to save your marriage.

Continued prayers and thoughts,

Tom

I never made such threat. I wanted to avoid exposure as much as WW did. I would have never taken my wife back if I had to make a threat.

My only threat was: "There is the door------get out!" I even offered a divorce without using adultery as the cause.

Threadjack over

However, I now understand that to enter into intant hermetic NC is difficult even for the most remorseful dedicated WW.

How do deal with that?

Alright here is the update.

First of all the WW defiantly hasnt recommitted to the M yet. So im definatly not in recovery.

So thats out.

I thought it over all day WTF to do. So I had a short conversation with her. Here is what i found out. On friday the (butter) soft deadline I gave her for end of plan A she had pretty much decided to leave the house and force me into plan B. Fine thats what I expected. Alot of that was because she percieved me as being dishonest and manipulative by calling her OM after I said I wouldnt. Yes that retarded logic but she is wayward.

After we both came clean (or maybe it was she didnt have the guts to leave) she had decided she really wasnt sure on what she wanted. She is more torn than ever. She KNOWS im willing to do whatever possible to save the M.

Now she is asking for more time. She wants me to find out exactly when the papers have to be served. I told her never since id dismiss the whole damn divorce. She said no because she didnt want to decide a week later then leave and people accuse her of being a gold digger.

So tomorrow im going to find the exact date. My intentions are to stay in Plan A till that day comes then she will give me a decision. Is it super tough guy? Nope. But throwing her [censored] in the street over a few weeks seems premature. Especially if I can PA her a few more weeks.

I believe the extra time WILL give her more reason to stay. I believe that the extra time will show her im willing to meet her needs consistently over the long term. It will show her im willing to help out with DD5 even more. Also i think that she may feel more obligated to stay after DD5 gets more and more use to us staying together. She sees the family in action.

Everyone always says PB is for the BS. Only reason I was even going to PB was because the living arrangements were intolerable to me. Now those are gone. I have her besides me at night. I feel i can do a better Plan A from the same house as her. I can snoop easier. The KL is gone but I dont think will be using the computer anyways since she is worried that I may install another one. All I can do about A phones is the same thing I always did. Snoop for it.

So right or wrong Im gong to stay again in PA until she either decides to leave and forces PB, until PA is completely intolerable or Steve says to move onto PB.


I can tell you steve has been pushing to have WW call him since day 1. If she wants to call ill let her call. I will also make a independent appointment for myself as well though.

Grr wish I had never filed for the stupid D now. I let the dumb [censored] lawyer kinda push me into it. Really wish i had waited a few days to get my head around it.

YEG:

I have given your WW the benefit of the doubt after coming back to you for a Plan B that lasted two minutes.

I WAS WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

She is playing you and she must think you are very easy to fool. She is back to her OLD self. She is back to the same WW that made you write the Plan B letter.

Plan A does not work with your WW.

The only thing that works is Plan B and a divorce.

Plan A is useless. Seen the lawyer to initiate the D was and is your only hope to get WW back. You must put her out in the street and go NC.

As I said I was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt and thought that you could tolerate her withdrawal. However, this is not withdrawal. She is acting in a cunning manner to get the best deal once she decides to leave you for OM.

WW did a number on you. I cannot believe you have posted the above. You are deep in BH fog. Yes, there is such a thing as BS fog.

DEFIANT????????????????

YEG:

You consistently choose the position of weakness. Every forum member have told you that you are acting weak and needy yet you keep acting that way.

YEG,

You are not helping your situation at all. I'm afraid that if you continue on this path, you will lose ANY chance for recovery at all because you continue to enable her indecisive behavior. Your wife will not decide anything because she doesn't have to. She will continue the same patterns because you allow her to do so.


You are partially right...Giving her more time, will give her more reason to STAY ON THE FENCE and play you for a fool, and hurt your daughter even more in the long run.

It's obvious here that you are an intelligent guy. It's obvious that you love your wife, but sometimes the greatest act of love is letting go. And you need to let her go if you want ANY chance of recovery.

You find living conditions tolerable because your WW is beside you at night? She's only there in body...When you kiss her, she is thinking of the OM. When she lays beside you, she's wishing she were laying beside the OM and sometimes the only way she can stand it is if she pretends it is him beside her, and not you. Is that REALLY tolerable?????

Do you want her to stay out of guilt? No, you want her to stay because she loves you...she chooses you...and she has stated that she is unable to do that right now. You have to make the choice for her, for now, because she can't. Set your boundaries. You have to refuse to live with a woman who is not devoted solely to you and your M. She's addicted, YEG. I know this is harsh, but her mind is NOT with you. It's with him, and those thoughts will continue if you don't change the path she's on.

How do I know this? Because I lived it every day for 6 months. And allowing this behavior out of her is NOT going to change her. The only way you are going to change it is to stop being weak and move to Plan B which says you will not tolerate this ANYMORE. PERIOD.

When my husband and I finally separated (and yes, I even filed for D), I was able to really start seeing the OM for who he really was...I was able to see that my H was going to move on and be FINE without me. And I suddenly realized that I might not be fine without him. But it was only after we separated that I saw that. As long as he tolerated my behavior, I could have kept going between both H and OM indefinitely. Your wife will too if you keep tolerating it.

Tough Love, YEG. Stop enabling her and start enabling yourself.

PG01

YEG, pianogirl is right. You have removed any and all motivation for your wife to work on this marriage. You have become the enabler of 2 adulterers. You have forfeited any and all leverage you had by taking her back unconditionally. By doing so, you are giving her expectations of entitlement and enabling her cakeeating.

This is a disaster and you are headed for a crash. Essentially you have handed the wheel to a drunk driver. Unfortunately, your little boy is in the back seat and you won't lift a finger to stop this car crash.

YEG:

Melody is correct.

I am also worried about her defiant posture.
Once she makes you take divorce and Plan B off the table she will defiantly continue the affair.

She may even force you to accept an open marriage while she thinks about her indecision.

Yeg, I really don't understand. If you were here to get guidance so that you can recover your marriage and you're getting it from people that have been in your position and know what to do but yet you won't follow it.

Instead of posting stuff like, "I know I'm a loser" and blah blah blah...stand up for yourself! Be a man, and take charge. No woman wants a man she knows she can push around and won't stand up for himself.

You're getting all comfortable and it's nice with her sleeping next to you. Yet, she's very likely to just walk out that door and you're twice as broken up than before.


I�d follow the advice of those on here and make your WW�s head spin. I�d sit down with what it would take to stay in the house and until she is ready to commit to the marriage, she doesn�t come back.

I can�t believe you let her know you found out about the affair phone. I would have taken that damn thing to her OMs commanding officer. I wouldn�t have said anything to her at all.

Stop being so happy to clutch at whatever she wants to give you at the moment. If you don�t, there won�t be anything to clutch to. Yeg, stand up for yourself. She won�t respect you until you do. You have no surveillance on her now. Just because you know where she�s sleeping doesn�t mean you know what she�s doing the other times. You think she won�t be doing this and you think she won�t be doing that�you thought she wasn�t having an affair at one point.

I know you�re not me. But, man, I�d be pissed off enough now to stand up for myself. Here�s the unfortunate part though. Eventually everyone gets tired of advising you and you not following it and then the advice stops. Good luck to you.

This is absolutely correct!!

My husband is just like you, nice guy, caring, loving, we call that "nice guy syndrome"

I told him, that he needs to be more assertive, because I felt like I was the man in the relationship, and I didn't like it!

I also told him, that I like it when he puts his foot down and told me "no, this is what it's going to be like for now on. When you come home." It was sexy! He was taking charge, and I was very attracted to it!

If he didn't do that, then we would be in the same situation you are in now, and to me...THAT IS NOT A RECOVERY!

Please YEG! We know you are smart guy, but are you really betting your Marriage because you "think" her parents wont approve now that she is finally "trying" to fix the marriage. (In there eyes anyway)

Are you really betting your marriage to "protect" your daughter? All I can see is that you are giving your daughter false hope to any recovery at all! It's going to happen YEG, one way or another she will mess up AGAIN, and that will hurt your daughter more!

So rip that band-aid right OFF as quickly as you can, and tell her to leave if she is not ready for a recovery!

Yeg,

I think you're really making a big mistake.

You're compromising like crazy to let your wife back into your presence, and this is allowing her to not make the changes that need to happen to make your marriage wonderful so that it will be possible to heal from the adultery.

It sounds to me like you are so scared to death of the possibility of being alone that you will take her back almost no matter what.

I wish you felt that staying in a lousy marriage to a woman who had an affair is far scarier. I wish that scared the * out of you and that you wanted to avoid that at all costs.

Because then I think you'd have the strength to draw a line and say "Wife, if you don't want to live up to this bar, I don't want you!"

And then you'd skip a lot of heartache, and you'd either find out how wonderful things can be or find out you're better off without someone who simply doesn't want to reform.

Marriage Builders is not about sticking with a cheater no matter what.

Have you ever read the story of what Pepperband told her husband on D-Day?

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=158318&Number=2293828#Post2293828

Look at the way she responded every time he said he didn't want to do what she said she needed done. Look at that resolve.

I wish everybody had that.

I too, was the "nice guy." I let The Leopard walk all over me during our marriage. I avoided arguments, preferring to keep the peace instead of risking war.

Then she firebombed the marriage, revealing her affair and saying she wanted out.

She immediately reminded me that she had no job, no money and no place to go. But she wanted to continue with OM, since our relationship was "over" and "hadn't been good for years" (Ha!).

I stupidly agreed to let her stay in the house for a month.

But I also went to a lawyer and drew up the papers. She was required to move out. I went into Plan B.

Tomorrow will mark the one month anniversary of our divorce.

I drew the line in the sand. Thanks to the folks here at Marriage Builders, I was able to rein in my "nice guy" and grow a pair.

She was (and is) a wayward spouse. I have been told that, to no one's surprise (but hers, perhaps), the affair is over.

So now she's out of the nice house I bought for her, she's without the Jeep I bought her (folks here will tell you of the new license plate I put on it) and she's without the supportive "nice guy" spouse she had. She now has to find someone else to provide for her, as she's ruined her credit, her career and her reputation.

Today, I have no problem being a "nice guy" again. I go to church, do community service, and am moving forward with my life.

Who says "nice guys don't win?"

This is what we all want you to do!

puh-leeeeeze....

This is a term that you continue to use. This literally means that YOU are "soft".

You can tell yourself that you are setting a boundary...that you won't accept it any longer after this "soft" deadling...but that means that you are NOT firm.

This is the plan...YOU lay it out...

No Contact, with a letter to be sent

Transparency in all activities

Accountability

Counseling with the Harleys

Those are just the starters for recovery.

STOP STOP STOP moving the boundary. Set it in stone...MAN UP.

committed

I don't think YEG will post again because he is keeping WW at home and calling the lawyer to call off the divorce.

I suggest we pray for a good outcome!!!!!!

Just a heads up.

Im not ignoring yall today. Im at work and the web filter is kicking in on the last 2 pages of my thread. So I cant see any of the replies since last night.

I appreciate everyones interest in my predicament. Im not a coward avoiding the thread.

While im here ill tell you the latest. The WW asked me to draft an agreement waiving her rights to alimony yesterday. She also wants me to agree to her having a lower income for the calculation of child support. So her end being calculated at a rate of 25k instead of 50k since getting a job of that level want me very possible anymore for her.

Im sure the 2x4 are going to come out for this too.

Im thinking about dropping my divorce complaint against her. This would allow her to have as much time as she needs to mull things over. I havent talked to her about this though.

I also interpret what to do different than most. I dont feel that not going to plan b was a mistake. IMO I am responding to new information I was provided. I dont see how the WW wanting to spend more time with me and being honest with me is a bad thing. Ive seen her change over the past 2 months. She had a foot out the door before. Now she is sharing my bed again and curling up with me on the couch while watching movies.

I've made an appointment with steve for next week. Ill see how that works out.

Since there is no danger of missing a filing date Im also going to be able to not have relationship talks. So ill give the 180 a try again.

Anyways ill look at the replies ASAP tonite when I get home.

I can imagine that you are seriously considering this



As much time as she needs??

As much time as she needs??

That's a cake eater's dream come true.

Here's an idea....move the OM in with ya'll and save her the inconvenience of leaving the house to do him.

NOTHING would surprise me with you right now...NOTHING...

committed

EDIT: Please change the ttle of the thread to a more accurate one, so that readers/posters can get the right impression of what is happening. Might I suggest..
Turning the wheel over to my WW so she can continue to drive it in the ditch

Did I miss something? This means divorce is in her mind. She has consulted with a lawyer .

In the mean time you want to drop the divorce.

She is sleeping with you. Let me be blunt: Any SF?

OK i can read page 64 now. I still cant read 63 though.


Naa im not a baby about it. Ill show my face around here.

The post after post of people thinking im a retard are pretty discouraging though.

No im not scared of D. Im scared I will get divorced and feel I didnt do everything to save my M. i probably wont end up in a perfect MB M. Alot of people dont. I think it can still be better than it was before. My WW was a flawed woman when i M her. I knew she had secrecy issues and a past when I put the ring on her finger.

If I truelly wanted to take the easy path I would have just kicked her aside from the start. I could have done it no problem. She wouldnt have fought me on it.

Ill read it later. promise.


What good does it do to set a rock hard deadline and throw her and my child out of the house? I wont be able to keep DD5. No court will allow that since I work and she has been watching her for 2 months now full time. Thats what the lawyer told me.

I dont see how locking her out one day for the shock and awe of it when plan A is making her questions her past choices is a good thing. I can handle more plan a so why not continue it?

Ill try opera next. Mozilla got me page 64. maybe opera can get me 63

Let me get this right, she is threatening you with divorce. She wants to waive allimony and pay less child support so she can basically keep the money she gets, and keep you out of her life when she wants. While you are stuck to do her bidding.


YEG there was no Plan B thats why you don't regret it, and that new information is gaslighting! She gave you a bunch of bull so she can continue to cake-eat and threaten you with divorce if she doesn't get what she wants. This woman has more power over you, and you say thats its fine.


^ I totally agree, you are fooling yourself, you are not fixing anything, your not protecting yourself, you are not looking out for your children. This sucks!