Well, WH came over for coffee again yesterday..I think we probably had the best conversation of our lives. We got a lot of things out in the open. No judging, no anger, just truly trying to understand where each other is coming from. It was almost better than sex (almost).
The night before when I had hoped to see him and "white-knuckled" it at home alone, he told me that he had sat down on the sofa and fell asleep and had assumed that I would stop by on my way home from work and wake him up. I told him that I was concerned that if I did, it would look like I was checking up on him and that was something that I had promised him I would never do again. He stopped, processed this and said "you are 100% right! That is exactly what I would have thought. Then I would have gotten defensive and we would have argued." I couldn't believe that he got it so quickly. Before the A, we would have went round and round about how I'm overanalyzing and thinking I know his mind, etc.
We talked a lot about the future and being a better husband and a better wife. We talked about our needs and he says that he sees and understands my need for more affection. (Saw a few little attempts at meeting this need before he left. I can live with "baby steps".)
Tried to get him to tell me some of his needs, but I don't think he can wrap his brain around that quite yet. Says he's gonna think about it and let me know.
The bizarre thing is that he's saying some things that go right along with MB principles..almost like he instinctively knows them. Doesn't use the same "lingo", but the content is the same. Things like "we have to do things differently so that this never happens again" and "I know if I just don't have any contact with OW, it will get better over time". He also told me that he knows that he could go to see her and I would probably never know (yea, right! I would know by the way he acts) because I am not following and checking up anymore, but he said HE would know. Wow!
So, does this mean we are headed for recovery? He says he wants to come back home, just wants to work on himself and get some things straightened out in his own head first. He says he sees a lot of change in me and that he wants to make himself better, too. There is no way we can be headed toward recovery before Plan B, right? How do we deal with this when OW is out of the picture but he's not ready to move back home yet? Somebody help me get grounded, cause I am sooo in love with this new man! He is talking to me and treating me like I have dreamed that he would. Is this a false recovery in the making??

You promised WH you would "never" check up on him again??????



Why did you do that?

It is completely a BAD idea.

But, do not discuss with him at this point in time.

If I were in your shoes, I'd tell WH that you know of a counseling center that specializes in recovery from adultery.
You tell WH that in order for the M to "recover" and both be happy and secure in the REALITY of that recovery, you will require that you both participate in that counseling.

It is, of course, the Harleys.
But you fish a little for it first.

They will tell WH that never checking up on him ever again is not good for recovery because it will increase your discomfort and anxiety.

If WH is ever fully inboard, he will WELCOME your checking up in him.

We are 14.5 years recovered. I still check some things if I ever get a "feeling".

So, once again, you promised something to WH without getting anything in return.
That is a sacrifice you made.
And it will lead to future resentments.

Don't worry, this can be corrected.


Really, start thinking about calling the Harleys, because REAL RECOVERY requires a REAL plan!

By the way, the Harleys counsel each spouse separately.
You can call today and set your appointment.

Once you do that, they will guide you in the most effective way to get WH on board.

This is your BEST way to avoid false recovery.

I wish I'd known about MB when we started recovery.
It would have smoothed the road.

Read this thread

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2402620&Board=35

Have you both been to your health care provider for STD testing?

I'd break a promise like that.

I mean, if I'd made it to someone who didn't keep their wedding vows, and wasn't reformed, why should I keep my promises?

Thinking about you.
Hoping you are doing well.

OMG! Almost didn't find my own thread! Like I said over on the rant thread, I've been here reading a lot of stuff, just haven't logged on and posted for a long time (too long).
I will try to give the short update: been working hard on ME (to the point that the words "selfish" and "you think its all about you" have been thrown at me)...been reading as much as I can get my hands on, praying, meditating, eating more regularly.
Have had good days and bad days, both with H and alone. Had another big blow up..I had a bad day emotionally because of a trigger, he didn't respond with (I felt) compassion, and it spiraled..you know the rest of the story. We have moved past it, but not without bumps and bruises (figuratively, not literally).
He still has not come home to stay..spends the night sometimes and SF is still a part of it. We are still having productive conversations and last night he promised he would read SAA and complete EN questionaire. I am soooo happy about that!
My car got repo'd (actually I voluntarily relinguished it, but I still have no ride either way.) Having to deal with that..was/is hard. Trying to look at "losing everything" as a way of gettin rid of the old so that I can get to the new. Really working on seeking the positive. Will have to move shortly..can't afford this place.
H came over last night carrying the cutest brown and white miniature dachshund (bout a year old). Someone at the fire department knew someone who needed to get rid of him, so my H, who is having a hard time even taking care of himself, decided he needed to adopt this dog. We have decided to share him..didn't know how much I missed having a dog. And he's loving..gotta get my cuddling from somewhere. LOL!
Anyway, I guess, all things considered, its going ok. I would like it to be better, but I can remember when it was a whole lot worse. Every day, we relax and open up a little more, but this is the hardest thing I've ever done, without a doubt. This whole process is just so draining and exhausting!
Oh, btw, have started taking St. John's Wort..someone told me about it, I researched it and decided to give it a try. Anybody else have any experiences with it's use for depression/mood?

Nice to hear you guys are putting things in place to recovery. Working on yourself is always hard, especially with LB's. They are bad habits just ingrained into the fiber of the nasty side of you. I am a bad DJ'er and I know it. I constantly have to second guess if what I am saying is a DJ. EN for your spouse is easier. You did it once before you just have to get back into the habit of meeting their EN's.

Don't forget to work on POJA and PORH, along with setting up EP's (might be further down the road??) with your husband for the both of you.

Thanks for the update!

Why has your H not moved back into the home? Do you think there may still be contact?

Peperband;
Read the thread-- your comments are amazingly good. You should charge!

Just a question. Red promised that she would never check up on him. Both you and Markos (and MB advice) says this is not a good idea. But now that she has TOLD her husband she won't do this, does she have to be honset with him and recant?

I am afraid if she does check up (like she should) and he finds out (like he will) this will prove to her WH that she does not hold up to her promises. In a true recovery scenario, that may not be the best thing... or am I wrong?

In a true recovery, she should NEVER tell him about her snooping. That was a bad promise that should not be kept. And the only thing worse than making a bad promise is keeping a bad promise. She should snoop like a bloodhound and NEVER tell her H. [except to confront him with any intel, but her sources or the facts that she is snooping should not be devulged]

I do not mean telling him how she is going to snoop, but let him know that, in general, in recovery, she can not hold 100% to her earlier promise.
Then drop it.

I would not say anything because that will tip her hand that she is snooping. Radical honesty is not applicable in this situation.

Honestly, I don't know why he hasn't moved back..I know what he tells me and that is that he wants to be "100%" before he moves back. He says he wants to be able to commit completely to rebuilding the marriage before he comes back. I don't understand it..and the loneliness is killing me - especially without a car. Part of me thinks its still the wayward bs talking, part of me thinks maybe in his half-cloudy/half-clear brain he DOES want to give me the best he can. I see remorse, I see effort to try and deal with things differently, I even see him stepping out of his comfort zone as far as honest open communication (a huge step for him). And he IS reading SAA - if you knew him, you would know what a huge step that is for him. I see him trying, but I also see him holding back..like he's pacing himself. Almost like he doesn't want to do too much too soon. He keeps making references to "taking our time" and "taking it slow". I'm trying to respect that, but I am a full-tilt kinda gal..don't like to do anything halfway..go big or go home kinda thing. That's the way he has always been, too...until now. It is definitely making me have to examine my control issues.
And he is not having contact with her..that much I know. The A is over and I do believe he loves me and wants to be with me. I guess sometimes I question how much he loves me and wants to be with me. We did not get this way overnight...we did not get this way overnight...we did not get this way overnight...

Ok, let me clarify this snooping thing a bit. This issue came up a few weeks back on the tail-end of a big blow up that resulted when I went looking for him and found him at POSOW's house and confronted him there..bad, bad scene. It was the bottom of the barrel for me..I had turned into the person that I did not want to be. I realized that if he is he77bent on doing anything, he is gonna do it. What I told him afterwards was that I would not come looking for him (not that I would not snoop). Two days later, I did recant..told him I made a promise that I did not know if I could realistically keep long term. It has not been mentioned since and he doesn't seem to have a problem with it. It is now a moot point, however, because I have no car. It was going to get reposessed anyway, so I voluntarily relinguished it because I could not afford to keep it by myself. (Btw, he is telling me not to worry-that he will make sure that I get where I need to go and he has a large settlement coming from his job situation soon. They won arbitration and have to pay him and reinstate him. He says we will get me another car with some of that money. Time will tell.)
All in all, he doesn't act like a man trying to hide anything..just not ready to open up and expose the whole truth about what's happened. He's forthcoming about what's happening now, though, and doesn't seem to be hiding anything. Is this normal? Why do you think he wants to go so slow and not just "jump in with both feet"?

redz,

IMO you need to start setting some boundaries here. You can't continue on in a modified Plan A for an extended period of time while he "finds himself" or "feels ready". No.

If it were me, I would let him know that you wanted to sit down to talk about the M. In that discussion I would let him know some of my expectations. Here a few:

~ move back into the home
~ NC, O&H (accounting for his time and giving you access to passwords, etc)
~ at least 15 hrs a week of UA time together, using the MB program to rebuild your M

I would do this calmly. If he can't agree to the above, I would start getting Plan B ready.

This is fogspeak for someone who hasn't ended all contact with their OW.

How can you know there is no contact if he isn't living in the home?

I am not trying to upset you, I just want you to have your eyes wide open.