Rosy- you see some similarities. Did you think things were going well? Really bad? Or just needed some tweeking?

Tom, I am going to reiterate what Vib said but relegate it to your thread ...

This forum is meant to help people who want to take a MB approach clarify how it is done. Many people that post here have been in the very situations new posters are describing, they applied MB principles, and it helped them.

You are welcome to disagree with them on your own thread and people can post clarification to what you say and then you can choose to agree or disagree. But please stop hijacking other people's threads with your own opinions.

You have a tendency to make everything about you. When someone said they didn't like how their husband drove, you made it about you. It was frustrating her, it was depleting her love bank, she needed help, she didn't need to hear how that makes you angry. Dave needs help, too. He doesn't need to know it would make you mad, he needs to think about what it will do in his own personal situation.

You shouldn't TRUST? Are you serious? Is this a joke? I absolutely trust my wife when it comes to the idea of there ever being an affair. I trust my wife when it comes to many other things as well. I think trust is extremely important. I trust her, which is a reason why I don't need to know everything that she says or does.
You shouldn't TRUST???

Yes sometimes I make things about me. But this was one time where I was not making it about me. This was about him, you guys made suggestions that did not seem very like very loving suggestions. True, she may not seem to be doing right by him, but 2 wrongs do not make a right here. If there is not an affair in that situation, nothing but bad will be accomplished by those suggestions.

You "trust" her because she doesn't get all done up and go out with the girls all night twice per week. You trust her because she tells you she loves you, shows affection, and does other positive things for the relationship. You "trust" her because of her behaviors and the information you have about her.

Trust is not blind, it is based on information and you continue to gather that information. If the information you are gathering is unclear (e.g., she stops showing any affection) you look harder.

Actually you are wrong. I have always been a very trusting person. Not just with my wife, but with most any friends that I have made, coworkers, most family, even people that are just acquaintances. I am a very trusting person. For me, trust is not something that is earned, I give it quite easily actually. Sometimes it has come back to bite me, but Id rather start with trust.

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Trust does have it's place in marriage. I trust that DH will care for and protect me. I trust that he will be honest with me. These are part of O&H. But these are based on past history, not given blindly.

You cannot trust that an affair will not happen. Because to trust is to hope and deny a fundamental component of the way people are wired. We are ALL wired for affairs, it is part of our basic make up as human beings. To trust that you or your wife is somehow different is to leave yourself open to an affair.

The only thing that stops an affair are EPs.

DH and I have access to each others phone, email, nothing is 'private'. Privacy is for going to the bathroom and that's about it when it comes to marriage. All my message logs are saved and available, emails, texts, everything open to DH.

You are arguing as if you trusted her before you even knew she existed. Trust is a process and it is continual. If she would have been behaving in untrustworthy ways from the beginning, you probably wouldn't have trusted her or married her. She continues to show trustworthy behaviors and so you continue to trust her. If her behaviors changed to untrustworthy acts, your trust for her would wane over time.

For example, if she started receiving calls at midnight and 2am, left the room to talk to the person, and then erased the missed call from her phone, your trust for her would wane. You are not giving her a gift of trust, she is showing you that you can trust her every day and therefore, you do.

I think you'd be pretty foolish to continue trusting if there were behaviours showing that you shouldn't be though.

I trust my husband completely, because he protects our marriage by not putting himself in situations where he could be tempted to stray or develop an emotional connection to another girl. If he began to do that he would be gambling with the life we have built and I would not trust him. As Melody says you don't trust someone who says "But I'm a SAFE drunk driver"


Things were okay. I was aware that the connection between us was not what it could be and there were some lies and some areas we couldn't talk about without problems. We weren't talking much or giving each other much attention and our sex life was routine. I thought that was marriage and normal and expected.

It was never awful, thank goodness, because we caught it before it got to that point and worked our asses off. Things are really really wonderful now. We took the kids to a playplace today, sat and cuddled on the couch, we couldn't stop talking, there was so much we wanted to say to each other and we couldn't stop touching one another. It is extremely rare that we have a bad day together now because we can deal with any problems together much more effectively. Little things used to have the power to knock us out of our good moods and turn us on each other and they don't any longer. I love that.

No, I didn't trust her before I knew her. But basically from the very beginning. And no she has not done anything that would remove that trust. If she had there would be a problem. But I did trust her before we truly got to know one another, I had to trust her to let her get to know me.
If I ever lose that trust then we would have other issues. As I said, snooping is one thing, but you can only take it so far. To me, what you find out when you "snoop" are not things you can use against the other person. They are for your knowledge and nothing else. They are not things you would confront the person about because you did not come across them in a noble way.

Vib- I guess from the way I read what you wrote I am not looking to protect my marriage from an affair. I am trusting that it wont happen. I think I would rather leave open the possibility for one and not have it happen, then to not even there be a chance. Knowing one could happen, but doesn't, to me shows a greater strength in the marriage.

Yup, I trust that DH won't blab the secrets I tell him to the whole world. I trust that he is doing his best to care for me and the kids financially (I'm a SAHM). I trust him to do these things because he has consistently shown me BY HIS ACTIONS that he has always done and will continue to do these things.
I don't always trust him to tell me everything, because we've had some issues with him omitting to tell me things I really needed to know. I am slowly trusting him more each day though as he is showing me that he is doing this. One day I am sure I will cease to think about it unless further evidence emerged that he had kept something from me.


Yup.



Yup. Dh often gets home from working late and unwinds by reading the message logs from my chats with friends. He likes our senses of humour and it makes him laugh. I have a facebook page and dh doesn't, but he has full access to that and we regularly swap phones and nosey through them. Ditto for emails.

You're like all those couples who decided to go on Temptation Island lol thinking that being able to walk up to the brink of a full blown affair and then step back was somehow a sign of a better relationship. I'm sure we could all do that at some times in our marriages and even in the best marriages there would be times when we would all fall if we were already on that precipice.

Know it's mere foolishness. It is banking on the idea that somehow you are better than everyone else. A pretty fancy, but deceptive and potentially dangerous.

Sure it'd be nice to say: we've always trusted each other and never strayed. Because then at the end of life you can look to all the schmucks that got there by protecting their marriage and you just look better, because you got it without having to do any of the work.

Sorry Tom - you're not a special and unique snowflake.

I can't tell you how many people I've seen come here, after walking the path you're headed down, saying they wish they found this site earlier - they wish they knew all this at the beginning.

You're here at the beginning.

But I don't think it's going to do you any good.

You're gonna be one of those who has to fall on your @$$ before you make any real changes.

I just hope you don't fall too hard.

Why are you still thinking in terms of using things against your partner? You're a team trying to work together to build a better marriage. Anything you find out by any means is a tool to use together.

I have found things on my dh's computer through snooping that I didn't like. Yes of course I confronted him, to keep it secret that I knew wouldn't have helped anything. He was never angry at me for looking, even when he felt bad for doing something that hurt me. We used the information together to work out why it was happening and what we could do to work together to meet both our needs.

EXACTLY

Several things you've said here Tom, indicate that you often have a mentality of You vs. Your Wife.

That is a Renter's mentality and is VERY damaging to your marriage.

You and your wife should never be on opposing sides. You should never be enemies. You should strive to be on the same team - because even if you 'win' you do so at the expense of your marriage and you still lose.

This isn't to say you can't have a difference of opinion, or differing views on a course of action. But your number one goal shouldn't be to get your way, your number one goal is to love your wife, no matter what. That way you always both win.

Problems should be solved together, not attacked from opposite sides of a fence.

It is a completely different paradigm.

And as far as snooping - I can snoop into DH's comp whenever I want. He has a porn problem and this is a way we're handling it. Of course if I find anything I should confront him, because it is a problem that the two of us must solve TOGETHER. Now sometime down the line I may not feel a need to snoop as much, I don't know. I think we may be dealing with an addiction, and an addict is ALWAYS an addict - just look at Robin Williams, slipped up again after how many years of sobriety?

Why not? Train wreck threads are some of the most entertaining. And nothing except a VERY hard fall is going to penetrate this guy's cranium. I know because I share that characteristic.

So I am hoping he DOES fall hard. Because I think that is his only hope for progress.

Because a hard fall causes ripples of damage to those around him: to his wife, to his future children, to his FOO. He may come around, but at what cost, to himself and those connected to him?

We as human beings are so capable of destroying the lives of those around us- with our hubris and inability to make good decisions. It makes my soul ache sometimes.

And I include myself in the human family as well. I know I am not capable of seeing all things clearly, I know I'm arrogant and capable of causing incredible damage. It's a very frightening thought...

I have always been a snooper. Every roomate that I had in college, I snooped through their things. It wasn't to find things to use against them, it was more to just find things, learn more things about them I guess. The only time I ever slipped up and let someone know I had information, they were mad, they lost trust, and it did not go over well. After that I realized anything I find, I can't ever reveal, I have to keep it to myself.
Now I know, the first thing you will say, this is different, its a marriage, a parnership. I know I know. Thus, I trust her, I don't snoop on her. She did once on me, it was not a pretty result, many hurt feelings, and bad fight, and lost some trust for a while until I built it back up. I will admit, it made me be more careful.

Hold- this marriage will not have a train wreck. If it ever does end, I will make sure it ends in a not so negative way.

And I don't want to trust so that we can say we were better. To me it just makes the relationship feel stronger.
While giving you some freedom at the same time.